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Author Topic: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal  (Read 2982 times)

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Offline MyrnaM

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Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2017, 05:19:06 PM »
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  • Entirely missing(?) the point anyway. "Fool me once..." though. False premise. Even when show, it would just be something else, as if you'd never answered at all.

    It is usually a case of "won't", not "can't".

    "Without the faith, it impossible to please God."

    It's an excuse.
    My missing point is, Rome does not have the Faith, therefore don't wait for Rome to say ... "accept under the pain of SIN"
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #16 on: August 27, 2017, 05:24:07 PM »
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  • My missing point is, Rome does not have the Faith, therefore don't wait for Rome to say ... "accept under the pain of SIN"
    No ma'am/miss, not yours, but his. This is an actual instance where I was unclear. No way to extract intended meaning from the text. 

    My apologies in this matter.

    I restating your point, you get to the guts of it; Rome has lost the faith, and people still insist on "recognizing" or following 'her', citing such as that which you responded to previously as if it would somehow matter even if true.

    "Head, meat(:)) wall."
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Nooseph Polten

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #17 on: August 27, 2017, 09:41:02 PM »
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  • Why does everything traditional have to be about the archbishop? He came reluctantly to the movement and then only proceeded in a half-hearted way. Those like Fr. Cekada who sought clarity could not endure his management style which still persists today in other hands. I dare say ABL acted like a SV on those days he was not hugging Romans!
      
    R & R is just as much a modern invention as the retirement of so-called popes. Convenience has entered the lives of comfortable people and they tailor solutions to problems that might cause them grief. R & R is that half-way house that justifies disobedience while not disputing the authority that normally expects obedience. You can ask a hundred priests hiding under this umbrella and you will get a hundred different reasons for their stance. Apparently, refusing conciliar popes all recognition is worse than saying Mrs. Obama is a man .....  and one lives in fear of being struck by lightening! But in my case the prospect of R & R in perpetuity would be something that would cause me grief. I will go with Fr. Cekada, happily.   ;)
    If it weren't for Archbishop Lefebvre, Cekada may never have become a priest. Cekada ought to be grateful to the archbishop for ordaining him, but instead he decided to arrogantly pontificate the stupid theory of sedevacantism, which was forbidden by Archbishop Lefebvre(yes Lefebvre ultimately took the "R&R position" after much deliberation) getting himself kicked out of the Society. He truly was a naughty one!
     By the way, if it is not a matter of one's salvation whether or not someone is the pope, why do sedevacantists so stubbornly hold to their position? I can see only one logical answer: they so desperately want to be right. What pride sedevacantists like Cekada have that they are willing to cause more confusion to the faithful and disobey their superiors just to assert such an academic claim! And this "all-important" claim of theirs could have disastrous eternal ramifications for them and their followers if it is in fact incorrect! 
    +Truth and Justice for all+
                  JMJ

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #18 on: August 27, 2017, 09:53:56 PM »
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  • By the way, if it is not a matter of one's salvation whether or not someone is the pope, why do sedevacantists so stubbornly hold to their position? ...And this "all-important" claim of theirs could have disastrous eternal ramifications for them and their followers if it is in fact incorrect!
    Derp. 

    "Sayin' stuffffff...."
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Nooseph Polten

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #19 on: August 27, 2017, 10:10:49 PM »
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  • Derp.

    "Sayin' stuffffff...."
    It's not really a contradiction. I'm saying that God will not damn someone for accepting an anti-pope as pope in a situation of confusion, as long as there has not been an official decree by the Church on the matter. St. Vincent Ferrer sided with and anti-pope during the Great Western Schism, and don't even try to tell me that there shouldn't be an "st." in front of his name. 
     On the other hand, God may punish someone for rejecting the publicly accepted pope in a situation where the alternative side is no pope at all. After all, being "under the same vicar of Christ" is a condition for membership in the Church isn't it? Let's not forget what Pope Boniface the VIII had to say on the matter, 
     quote from the solemn bull Unam Sanctam:
    [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.[/color]
    +Truth and Justice for all+
                  JMJ


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #20 on: August 27, 2017, 10:30:33 PM »
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  • It's not really a contradiction.
      Well, what you meant to say may not have been but what you actually wrote is contradictory.
     I'm saying that God will not damn someone for accepting an anti-pope as pope in a situation of confusion,
     Not necessarily, and quibbling about who does the "damning" is another subject. For example, siding with an antipope that one knows is such. 

    as long as there has not been an official decree by the Church

    And, speaking of the following "GWS", just how would that determination be made exactly in such a situation? Kinda hard to sort out just who and what really holds the offices, and therefore determine just who really does the talking for the Church, no? That was the problem, right?


     on the matter. St. Vincent Ferrer sided with and anti-pope

    So?

    during the Great Western Schism, and don't even try to tell me that there shouldn't be an "st." in front of his name.

    Why would I do that? 

     On the other hand, God may

    Right. "May"

    punish someone for rejecting the publicly accepted pope in a situation where the alternative side is no pope at all.

    Without again quibbling over specific terms, by reflex principle alone that is the default, no? In ANY papal election, there is only one pope elected, unless I missed some "alternates" rules for elections like sports or something. If not, then, again, you are really saying anything. 

    After all, being "under the same vicar of Christ" is a condition for membership in the Church isn't it?

    Being subject to the pope is absolutely necessary for salvation. Yet again, "so what"?

    Let's not forget what Pope Boniface the VIII had to say on the matter,
     quote from the solemn bull Unam Sanctam:
    Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

    Right. Do I need to ask it again?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #21 on: August 27, 2017, 10:35:30 PM »
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  • Nooseph for your information the Antipopes of past history were Catholic, therefore God would not punish their followers in times of confusion of past.

    The Conciliar "popes" of today are not Catholic, that is a big difference. 

    Quote
    God may punish someone for rejecting the publicly accepted pope in a situation where the alternative side is no pope at all. 
    God will not punish someone for accepting the Truth that it is impossible for a pope to be the leader of Truth and error.
    Your theory is stupid not the sede position.   
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #22 on: August 27, 2017, 10:59:10 PM »
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  • First off, thank you for admitting that new Rome does not command us to abandon the Faith, under pain of sin.  Therefore, we can conclude that they do not FORCE anyone to abandon the faith, but they TEMPT people as does the pied piper, by playing a nice tune and leading them to destruction, like Satan does.  But these temptations are not from the church, officially, but from the churchMEN.
     


    Offline Nooseph Polten

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #23 on: August 27, 2017, 11:02:19 PM »
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  • Nooseph for your information the Antipopes of past history were Catholic, therefore God would not punish their followers in times of confusion of past.

    So you're saying that God would punish those who accept the pope as pope, but refuse to follow his errors today?

    The Conciliar "popes" of today are not Catholic, that is a big difference.
    God will not punish someone for accepting the Truth that it is impossible for a pope to be the leader of Truth and error.

    Yeahh.... No. I'm pretty sure POPES Liberius, Honorius, Nicholas I, and John XXII were "leaders of Truth and error", so you're claim falls flat. 

    Your theory is stupid not the sede position.   

    Alright, you win. Keep on believing the not-stupid position that we haven't had a pope in over 50(?) years. Quite an interregnum we're having, isn't it? 

    And to make sure you understand the consequences you may receive if your position is wrong, I will once again quote the infallible bull of Pope Boniface VIII: 
    [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]"Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."[/color]

     
    +Truth and Justice for all+
                  JMJ

    Offline Nooseph Polten

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #24 on: August 27, 2017, 11:04:31 PM »
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  • First off, thank you for admitting that new Rome does not command us to abandon the Faith, under pain of sin.  Therefore, we can conclude that they do not FORCE anyone to abandon the faith, but they TEMPT people as does the pied piper, by playing a nice tune and leading them to destruction, like Satan does.  But these temptations are not from the church, officially, but from the churchMEN.
     
    Exactly
    +Truth and Justice for all+
                  JMJ

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Nooseph Polten

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #26 on: August 27, 2017, 11:13:17 PM »
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  • Exactly what?
    I'm agreeing with Pax's statements. Is that not clear?
    +Truth and Justice for all+
                  JMJ

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #27 on: August 27, 2017, 11:19:45 PM »
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  • I'm agreeing with Pax's statements. Is that not clear?

    DISTINCTION time again. I get THAT you're agreeing, which isn't the same (question) as to WHAT you are agreeing with/to. I don't care WHO said it in this case if it wasn't the Church.

    What isn't clear is what all that has to do with anything, again, (not your doing this time), as if a well placed "Exactly" just wraps it all up in a bow.

    It's the white guy version of "word!"

    In other words, I fail to see how it is even relevant, even IF otherwise correct, let alone "exact".

    Rephrase two. What are you all even talking about, and where does the Church say so?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Nooseph Polten

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #28 on: August 27, 2017, 11:22:05 PM »
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  • DISTINCTION time again. I get THAT you're agreeing, which isn't the same (question) as to WHAT you are agreeing with/to. I don't care WHO said it in this case if it wasn't the Church.

    What isn't clear is what all that has to do with anything, again, (not your doing this time), as if a well placed "Exactly" just wraps it all up in a bow.

    It's the white guy version of "word!"

    In other words, I fail to see how it is even relevant, even IF otherwise correct, let alone "exact".

    Rephrase two. What are you all even talking about, and where does the Church say so?
    Word!
    +Truth and Justice for all+
                  JMJ

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Resistance vs. Sedevacantism: Fr. Cekada answers Fr. Chazal
    « Reply #29 on: August 27, 2017, 11:29:41 PM »
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  • Word!
    At least you have what seems to be a good humor, and aren't readily butt-hurt. 

    I appreciate that. thx.
    "Lord, have mercy".