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Author Topic: Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked docuмent for the sellout  (Read 11114 times)

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Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked docuмent for the sellout
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2013, 02:37:06 PM »
Quote
sans accepter aucune interprétation de ces affirmations qui puisse porter à exposer la doctrine catholique en opposition ou en rupture avec la Tradition et avec ce Magistère.


So then one would not be allowed to say that Nostra Aetate or Religious Liberty were a rupture.


Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked docuмent for the sellout
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2013, 02:53:38 PM »
A perfunctory Google translation.

Quote
DECLARATION OF DOCTRINAL April 15, 2012 MGR THAT WAS SENT TO CARDINAL FELLAY LEVADA

I

We promise to always be faithful to the Catholic Church and the Roman Pontiff, the supreme Shepherd, the Vicar of Christ, Successor of Peter and head of the body of bishops.

II

We declare to accept the teachings of the Magisterium of the Church in matters of faith and morals, giving each doctrinal affirmation degree of membership required, according to the doctrine contained in No. 25 of the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium of Vatican II (1).

III In particular:

1 We declare to accept the doctrine of the Roman Pontiff and the College of Bishops, with its head, the Pope taught by the Dogmatic Constitution Pastor Aeternus of Vatican I and the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium of Vatican II, Chapter 3 ( of constitutione hierarchica Ecclesiae and in specie of episcopatu), explained and interpreted by the Note explicativa previa in this chapter.

2 We recognize the authority of the Magisterium which alone is entrusted the task of authentically interpreting the word of God written or handed (2) fidelity to the tradition, remembering that "the Holy Spirit was not promised to the successors Peter to know that they do, in his revelation, a new doctrine, but with the assistance they might religiously guard and faithfully express the revelation transmitted through the Apostles, that is to say, the deposit of faith " (3).

3 The Tradition is the living transmission of Revelation "usque ad nos" (4) and the Church in her doctrine, life and worship, perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she is and that this it believes. Tradition progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit (5), not as a novelty contrast (6) but with a better understanding of depositum fidei (7).

4 The whole tradition of the Catholic faith should be the criterion and guide understanding of the teachings of Vatican II, which in turn lights - that is to say, deepens and explicit later - some aspects of life and the doctrine of the Church, implicitly present in it or not yet formulated conceptually (8).

5 The statements of Vatican II and Papal Magisterium post on the relationship between the Catholic Church and non-Catholic Christian denominations, as well as social duty of religion and the right to religious freedom, the formulation is difficult consistent with the doctrinal affirmations previous Magisterium, must be understood in the light of Tradition complete and uninterrupted, consistent with the truths previously taught by the Magisterium of the Church, without accepting any interpretation of these assertions can wear to expose Catholic doctrine in opposition or break with tradition and with the Magisterium.

6 Therefore it is legitimate to promote a legitimate discussion the study and theological explanation of expressions and formulations of the Second Vatican Council and the Magisterium that followed, in case they do not seem to reconcile with the previous Magisterium of the Church (9).

7 We declare recognize the validity of the sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacraments celebrated with the intention of doing what the Church according to the rites shown in the typical editions of the Roman Missal and Rituals of the Sacraments legitimately promulgated by Pope Paul VI and John Paul II.

8 In accordance with the criteria set out above (III, 5), and the canon 21 of the Code, we pledge to respect the common discipline of the Church and the ecclesiastical laws, especially those contained in the Code of Canon Law promulgated by Pope John Paul II (1983) and the Code of Canon Law of the Eastern Churches promulgated by the same Pontiff (1990), without prejudice to the discipline to grant to the Society of Saint Pius X by a special law.
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We read rating: -
(1) See also the new formula for the Profession of Faith and Oath of Fidelity to take a load exerted on behalf of the Church, 1989 cf. Cann CIC 749, 750, 1 and 2, 752; CCEO cann. 597, 598, 1 and 2 599.
(2) Pius XII encyclical Humani Generis.
(3) Vatican I, Dogmatic Constitution Pastor aeternus, Dz. 3070.
(4) Council of Trent, Dz. 1501: "Any saving truth and moral teaching (Matt. XVI, 15) are contained in books and in the unwritten traditions which, received by the Apostles from the mouth of Christ himself or transmitted as hand hand by the Apostles at the dictation of the Holy Spirit, have come down to us. "
(5) See Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Dei Verbum, 8 and 9, Denz.4209-4210.
(6) Vatican I, Dogmatic Constitution Dei Filius, Dz. 3020: "So should we always retain the meaning of the sacred dogmas that Holy Mother the Church has determined once and for all, and never deviate under the guise and name of a superior intelligence of these dogmas. Grow so abundantly and multiply in each as in all, all men as well as in the whole Church, in the course of ages and centuries, intelligence, knowledge and wisdom, but only in the row that suits them, that is to say, in the unity of dogma, meaning and way of seeing (St. Vincent of Lérins, Commonitorium, 28). "
(7) Vatican I, Dogmatic Constitution Dei Filius, Dz. 3011 Oath antimodernist, No. 4, Pius XII, Encyclical Letter Humani Generis, Dz 3886, the Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Dei Verbum, 10, Dz. 4213.
(8) As such the teaching of the sacramentality of the episcopate in Lumen Gentium, No. 21.
(9) There is a parallel in the history of Armenians with the Decree of the Council of Florence, where the porrection instruments was indicated as the matter of the sacrament of Order. Nevertheless theologians discussed legitimately, even after this decree, the accuracy of such an assertion, and finally the issue was resolved in another way by Pope Pius XII.


Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked docuмent for the sellout
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2013, 02:59:13 PM »
Quote
5 The statements of Vatican II and Papal Magisterium post on the relationship between the Catholic Church and non-Catholic Christian denominations, as well as social duty of religion and the right to religious freedom, the formulation is difficult consistent with the doctrinal affirmations previous Magisterium, must be understood in the light of Tradition complete and uninterrupted, consistent with the truths previously taught by the Magisterium of the Church, without accepting any interpretation of these assertions can wear to expose Catholic doctrine in opposition or break with tradition and with the Magisterium.


 :facepalm:

This is just embarrassing.

Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked docuмent for the sellout
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2013, 03:00:36 PM »
Here a quick translation, intense work, I hope I left no mistakes.
I did not translate the footnotes (= references to councils, etc.)




DOCTRINAL DECLARATION FROM APRIL 15 AVRIL, 2012, WHICH MGR FELLAY SENT TO CARDINAL LEVADA

I

We plight to always be faithful to the Catholic Church and to the Roman Pontiff, Christ's vicar, successor of Peter and head of the body of bishops.

II

We declare that we accept the teachings of the Church's magisterium regarding matters of faith and morals, giving to each doctrinal statement the required degree of assent, according to the doctrine contained in item 25 of the Lumen Gentium dogmatic constitution of the Second Vatican Council (1).

 III In particular:

1 We declare accepting the doctrine re. the Roman Pontiff and the College of bishops, with its head, the Pope, as taught by the Pastor Aeternus dogmatic constitution of the first Vatican Council and by the Lumen Gentium dogmatic constitution of the Second Vatican Council, chapter 3 (De constitutione hierarchica Ecclesiæ et in specie de episcopatu), explained and interpreted by the Nota explicativa prævia to this very chapter.

2 We recognize the authority of the Magisterium to which only is entrusted the task of authentically  interpreting the Word of God written or transmitted (2) in faithfulness to the Tradition, remembering that « the Holy Spirit was not promised to Peter's successors so that they may make known, under his revelation, a new doctrine, but so as to, with its assistance, they may saintly keep and faithfully express the revelation handed over by the Apostles, i.e. the deposit of faith » (3).

3 The Tradition is the living transmission of the Revelation « usque ad nos » (4) and the Church in its doctrine, in its life and in its cult, perpetuates and transmits to all generations what it is and all what it believes. The Tradition progresses within the Church with the assistance of the Holy Spirit (5), not as a contrary novelty (6) but by a better understanding of the depositum fidei (7).

4 The entire Tradition of the Catholic faith must be the criterion and the guide for understanding the teachings of the Second Vatican Council, which in turn illuminates – i.e. deepens and further clarifies– some aspects of the life and of the doctrine of the Church, implicitly presents in its midst or not yet conceptually formulated (8).

5 The statements of the Second Vatican Council and of the later pontifical magisterium re. the  relationship between the Catholic Church and the non-Catholic Christian confessions, also re. the social duty of of religion and the right to religious freedom, whose formulation is difficult to reconcile with the former doctrinal statements of the Magisterium, must be understood in the light of the entire and uninterrupted Tradition, in a manner consistent with the truths previously taught by the Church's magisterium, without accepting any interpretation of these statements which may lead to expound the Catholic doctrine in opposition or in rupture with the Tradition and with this Magisterium.

6 This is why it is legitimate to promote by a legitimate discussion the study and the theological explanation of expressions and of formulations of the Second Vatican Council and of  the consecutive magisterium, in the case where it appears that they cannot be reconciled with the previous Church Magisterium (9).

7 We declare that we recognise the validity of the sacrifice of the Mass and of the Sacraments celebrated with the intent of doing what the Church does with the rites referred in the typical editions of the Roman Missal and the Sacramental Ritual legitimately promulgated by popes Paul VI and  Jean-Paul II.

8 By following the criteria set out above (III, 5), as well as canon 21 of the Code, we plight to respect the Church's common discipline and the ecclesiastical laws, especially those contained in the Code of canon law promulgated  by pope John-Paul II (1983) in the code of canon law of the Eastern Churches promulgated by the same Pontiff (1990), reserving the right of a discipline to be conceded to the Society of Saint Pius X by a particular law.
—————————————–
On lit en note :–
(1) Cf. aussi la nouvelle formule de la Profession de foi et du Serment de fidélité pour assumer une charge exercée au nom de l’Eglise, 1989 ; cf. CIC cann 749 ; 750, 1et 2 ; 752 ; CCEO cann. 597 ; 598, 1 et 2 ; 599.
(2) Cf. Pie XII, encyclique Humani Generis.
(3) Vatican I, Constitution dogmatique, Pastor aeternus, Dz. 3070.
(4) Concile de Trente, Dz. 1501 : « Toute vérité salutaire et toute règle morale (Mt. XVI, 15) sont contenues dans les livres écrits et dans les traditions non écrites qui, reçues par les Apôtres de la bouche du Christ lui-même ou transmises comme de la main à la main par les Apôtres sous la dictée de l’Esprit Saint, sont parvenues jusqu’à nous. »
(5) Cf. Concile Vatican II, Constitution dogmatique Dei Verbum, 8 et 9, Denz.4209-4210.
(6) Vatican I, Constitution dogmatique Dei Filius, Dz. 3020 : « Aussi doit-on toujours retenir le sens des dogmes sacrés que la sainte Mère l’Eglise a déterminé une fois pour toutes, et ne jamais s’en écarter sous le prétexte et au nom d’une intelligence supérieure de ces dogmes. Croissent donc et se multiplient abondamment, dans chacun comme dans tous, chez tous les hommes aussi bien que dans toute l’Eglise, durant le cours des âges et des siècles, l’intelligence, la science et la sagesse ; mais seulement dans le rang qui leur convient, c’est-à-dire dans l’unité du dogme, de sens et de manière de voir (St. Vincent de Lérins, Commonitorium, 28). »
(7) Vatican I, Constitution dogmatique Dei Filius, Dz. 3011 ; Serment antimoderniste, nº 4 ; Pie XII, Lettre encyclique Humani Generis, Dz 3886 ; Concile Vatican II, Constitution dogmatique Dei Verbum, 10, Dz. 4213.
(8) Comme par exemple l’enseignement de la sacramentalité de l’épiscopat in Lumen Gentium, nº 21.
(9) On trouve un parallèle dans l’histoire avec le Décret des Arméniens du Concile de Florence, où la porrection des instruments était indiquée comme matière du sacrement de l’Ordre. Néanmoins les théologiens discutèrent légitimement, même après ce décret, sur l’exactitude d’une telle assertion ; finalement la question fut résolue d’une autre façon par le pape Pie XII.

Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked docuмent for the sellout
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2013, 03:05:54 PM »
Will wait for a more precise translation, but at cursory review, I think there are some major problems with #4, 7, and 8.

#4 opens a floodgate for every novelty;

#7 says the new sacraments were legitimately promulgated and certainly valid;

#8 says we ought not have any issue with many scandalous things promoted in the new code, such as communicatio in sacris.


Oops: Just saw Suger made a translation too........