Author Topic: Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked docuмent for the sellout (Read 11132 times)

Telesphorus · « **Reply #10 on:** March 09, 2013, 03:06:56 PM »

It seems to me that a critical point is to state the new Rites were legitimately promulgated.

(that we didn't know about before)

That is hidden by the smokescreen of admitting they are valid -

The Church cannot legitimately promulgate harmful rites.

So if the SSPX accepted this then it would mean it implicitly accepts the Novus Ordo.

Just as the docuмent admits that Vatican II is implicit in Church Tradition.

And gives to Vatican II the level of assent required in Lumen Gentium.

Quote

This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the docuмents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking.

So Vatican II is admitted to be authentic magisterium, the new rites are admitted to be "legitimately promulgated"

So to accept the preamble is to accept Vatican II and the New Mass.

Matto · « **Reply #11 on:** March 09, 2013, 03:06:56 PM »

This is troubling. :smash-pc:

This sounds like wolves howling.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #12 on:** March 09, 2013, 03:07:55 PM »

Quote from: Seraphim

Will wait for a more precise translation, but at cursory review, I think there are some major problems with #4, 7, and 8.

#4 opens a floodgate for every novelty;

#7 says the new sacraments were legitimately promulgated and certainly valid;

#8 says we ought not have any issue with many scandalous things promoted in the new code, such as communicatio in sacris.

Oops: Just saw Suger made a translation too........

Yeah, those are all bad, especially #8.

But #5 is bad as well.

suger · « **Reply #13 on:** March 09, 2013, 03:08:25 PM »

A small translation note :

when translating, I realise the text was not written in a logical manner re. grammar and semantics. I did not change (improve) those things, which show how intellectually limited Fellay and co. are.
Likewise, they are not even lexically consistent, (although this is crucial for a legal docuмent)...
so either using "magistère" or "Magisterium".
I translated like this (keeping the upper case)
magistère --> magisterium
Magisterium --> Magisterium.

Now I am having a well deserved break, this was tiring to try translate this very accurately in so little time as possible...

Pius IX · « **Reply #14 on:** March 09, 2013, 03:45:06 PM »

"7 Nous déclarons reconnaître la validité du sacrifice de la Messe et des Sacrements célébrés avec l’intention de faire ce que fait l’Eglise selon les rites indiqués dans les éditions typiques du Missel romain et des Rituels des Sacrements légitimement promulgués par les papes Paul VI et Jean-Paul II."

That's pretty troubling.