Author Topic: Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout  (Read 7314 times)

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Offline suger

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  • The resistance French priest of La Sapiniere have leaked +Fellay's doctrinal declaration which he sent on behalf on the whole Society to Cardinal Levada on 04.15, 2012.


    It is so unbelievable,
    that I have to give a warning : Fasten yourself to your chair before reading, in case you overreact...
    Not recommended for the faithful with heart problems.


    http://www.lasapiniere.info/declaration-doctrinale/

    Quote


    DECLARATION DOCTRINALE DU 15 AVRIL 2012 QUE MGR FELLAY AVAIT ENVOYÉE AU CARDINAL LEVADA

    I

    Nous promettons d’être toujours fidèles à l’Eglise catholique et au Pontife romain, son Pasteur suprême, Vicaire du Christ, successeur de Pierre et chef du Corps des évêques.

    II

    Nous déclarons accepter les enseignements du Magistère de l’Eglise en matière de foi et de morale, en donnant à chaque affirmation doctrinale le degré d’adhésion requis, selon la doctrine contenue dans le nº 25 de la Constitution dogmatique Lumen Gentium du Concile Vatican II (1).

    III En particulier :

    1 Nous déclarons accepter la doctrine sur le Pontife romain et sur le Collège des évêques, avec son chef, le Pape, enseignée par la Constitution dogmatique Pastor æternus du Concile Vatican I et par la Constitution dogmatique Lumen Gentium du Concile Vatican II, chapitre 3 (De constitutione hierarchica Ecclesiæ et in specie de episcopatu), expliquée et interprétée par la Nota explicativa prævia à ce même chapitre.

    2 Nous reconnaissons l’autorité du Magistère auquel seul est confié la tâche d’interpréter authentiquement la Parole de Dieu écrite ou transmise (2) dans la fidélité à la Tradition, se souvenant que « le Saint Esprit n’a pas été promis aux successeurs de Pierre pour qu’ils fassent connaître, sous sa révélation, une nouvelle doctrine, mais pour qu’avec son assistance ils gardent saintement et expriment fidèlement la révélation transmise par les Apôtres, c’est-à-dire le dépôt de la foi » (3).

    3 La Tradition est la transmission vivante de la Révélation « usque ad nos » (4) et l’Eglise dans sa doctrine, dans sa vie et dans son culte, perpétue et transmet à toutes les générations ce qu’elle est et tout ce qu’elle croit. La Tradition progresse dans l’Eglise avec l’assistance du Saint Esprit (5), non comme une nouveauté contraire (6) mais par une meilleure compréhension du depositum fidei (7).

    4 L’entière Tradition de la foi catholique doit être le critère et le guide de la compréhension des enseignements du Concile Vatican II, lequel à son tour éclaire – c’est-à-dire approfondit et explicite ultérieurement – certains aspects de la vie et de la doctrine de l’Eglise, implicitement présents en elle ou non encore formulés conceptuellement (8).

    5 Les affirmations du Concile Vatican II et du Magistère pontifical postérieur relatives à la relation entre l’Eglise catholique et les confessions chrétiennes non-catholiques, ainsi qu’au devoir social de religion et au droit à la liberté religieuse, dont la formulation est difficilement conciliable avec les affirmations doctrinales précédentes du Magistère, doivent être comprises à la lumière de la Tradition entière et ininterrompue, de manière cohérente avec les vérités précédemment enseignées par le Magistère de l’Eglise, sans accepter aucune interprétation de ces affirmations qui puisse porter à exposer la doctrine catholique en opposition ou en rupture avec la Tradition et avec ce Magistère.

    6 C’est pourquoi il est légitime de promouvoir par une légitime discussion l’étude et l’explication théologique d’expressions et de formulations du Concile Vatican II et du Magistère qui a suivi, dans le cas où elles ne paraissent pas conciliables avec le Magistère antérieur de l’Eglise (9).

    7 Nous déclarons reconnaître la validité du sacrifice de la Messe et des Sacrements célébrés avec l’intention de faire ce que fait l’Eglise selon les rites indiqués dans les éditions typiques du Missel romain et des Rituels des Sacrements légitimement promulgués par les papes Paul VI et Jean-Paul II.

    8 En suivant les critères énoncés ci-dessus (III, 5), ainsi que le canon 21 du Code, nous promettons de respecter la discipline commune de l’Eglise et les lois ecclésiastiques, spécialement celles qui sont contenues dans le Code de droit canonique promulgué par le pape Jean-Paul II (1983) et dans le code de droit canon des Eglises orientales promulgué par le même Pontife (1990), restant sauve la discipline à concéder à la Fraternité Sacerdotale Saint Pie X par une loi particulière.
    —————————————–
    On lit en note :–
    (1) Cf. aussi la nouvelle formule de la Profession de foi et du Serment de fidélité pour assumer une charge exercée au nom de l’Eglise, 1989 ; cf. CIC cann 749 ; 750, 1et 2 ; 752 ; CCEO cann. 597 ; 598, 1 et 2 ; 599.
    (2) Cf. Pie XII, encyclique Humani Generis.
    (3) Vatican I, Constitution dogmatique, Pastor aeternus, Dz. 3070.
    (4) Concile de Trente, Dz. 1501 : « Toute vérité salutaire et toute règle morale (Mt. XVI, 15) sont contenues dans les livres écrits et dans les traditions non écrites qui, reçues par les Apôtres de la bouche du Christ lui-même ou transmises comme de la main à la main par les Apôtres sous la dictée de l’Esprit Saint, sont parvenues jusqu’à nous. »
    (5) Cf. Concile Vatican II, Constitution dogmatique Dei Verbum, 8 et 9, Denz.4209-4210.
    (6) Vatican I, Constitution dogmatique Dei Filius, Dz. 3020 : « Aussi doit-on toujours retenir le sens des dogmes sacrés que la sainte Mère l’Eglise a déterminé une fois pour toutes, et ne jamais s’en écarter sous le prétexte et au nom d’une intelligence supérieure de ces dogmes. Croissent donc et se multiplient abondamment, dans chacun comme dans tous, chez tous les hommes aussi bien que dans toute l’Eglise, durant le cours des âges et des siècles, l’intelligence, la science et la sagesse ; mais seulement dans le rang qui leur convient, c’est-à-dire dans l’unité du dogme, de sens et de manière de voir (St. Vincent de Lérins, Commonitorium, 28). »
    (7) Vatican I, Constitution dogmatique Dei Filius, Dz. 3011 ; Serment antimoderniste, nº 4 ; Pie XII, Lettre encyclique Humani Generis, Dz 3886 ; Concile Vatican II, Constitution dogmatique Dei Verbum, 10, Dz. 4213.
    (8) Comme par exemple l’enseignement de la sacramentalité de l’épiscopat in Lumen Gentium, nº 21.
    (9) On trouve un parallèle dans l’histoire avec le Décret des Arméniens du Concile de Florence, où la porrection des instruments était indiquée comme matière du sacrement de l’Ordre. Néanmoins les théologiens discutèrent légitimement, même après ce décret, sur l’exactitude d’une telle assertion ; finalement la question fut résolue d’une autre façon par le pape Pie XII.



    Who said +Fellay was not a traitor?


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #1 on: March 09, 2013, 02:07:00 PM »
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  • Anglais?
    More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com


    Offline suger

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #2 on: March 09, 2013, 02:11:05 PM »
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  • I just started to translate it myself (manually), please give me about 15 min.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #3 on: March 09, 2013, 02:13:19 PM »
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  • I guess I will have to take your word for it?
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline PAT317

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #4 on: March 09, 2013, 02:34:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    I guess I will have to take your word for it?


    Well, parts of it look like the part that Fr. Pfluger revealed last year:

    Quote

    68:33 minutes
    The entire tradition of catholic faith must be the criteria and guide in understanding the teaching of the second Vatican council, which, in turn, enlightens certain aspects of the life and doctrine of the Church implicitly present within itself and not yet formulated.

    The affirmations of the second Vatican council […] and of the posterior pontifical Magisterium concerning relations between the Catholic Church and non-Catholic Christian confessions […] must be understood in the light of the entire and uninterrupted Tradition in a manner which is coherent with truths previously taught by the Church and without accepting any interpretation whatsoever.

    That is why it is legitimate to promote through a legitimate discussion the study and theological explanation of expressions or formulas of the second Vatican council and the ensuing Magisterium whenever these do not appear reconcilable with the Church’s previous Magisterium.


    If you listen to Fr. Pfluger, you can match the French words with the written text in this thread.  Then if you don't understand French, do a google translate, and see if the (soon to be out) English translation looks essentially the same.  Except it's a little confusing because he inserts commentary I think, so he's not following the text exactly.



    Offline Telesphorus

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #5 on: March 09, 2013, 02:37:06 PM »
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  • Quote
    sans accepter aucune interprétation de ces affirmations qui puisse porter à exposer la doctrine catholique en opposition ou en rupture avec la Tradition et avec ce Magistère.


    So then one would not be allowed to say that Nostra Aetate or Religious Liberty were a rupture.


    Offline Nishant

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #6 on: March 09, 2013, 02:53:38 PM »
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  • A perfunctory Google translation.

    Quote
    DECLARATION OF DOCTRINAL April 15, 2012 MGR THAT WAS SENT TO CARDINAL FELLAY LEVADA

    I

    We promise to always be faithful to the Catholic Church and the Roman Pontiff, the supreme Shepherd, the Vicar of Christ, Successor of Peter and head of the body of bishops.

    II

    We declare to accept the teachings of the Magisterium of the Church in matters of faith and morals, giving each doctrinal affirmation degree of membership required, according to the doctrine contained in No. 25 of the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium of Vatican II (1).

    III In particular:

    1 We declare to accept the doctrine of the Roman Pontiff and the College of Bishops, with its head, the Pope taught by the Dogmatic Constitution Pastor Aeternus of Vatican I and the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium of Vatican II, Chapter 3 ( of constitutione hierarchica Ecclesiae and in specie of episcopatu), explained and interpreted by the Note explicativa previa in this chapter.

    2 We recognize the authority of the Magisterium which alone is entrusted the task of authentically interpreting the word of God written or handed (2) fidelity to the tradition, remembering that "the Holy Spirit was not promised to the successors Peter to know that they do, in his revelation, a new doctrine, but with the assistance they might religiously guard and faithfully express the revelation transmitted through the Apostles, that is to say, the deposit of faith " (3).

    3 The Tradition is the living transmission of Revelation "usque ad nos" (4) and the Church in her doctrine, life and worship, perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she is and that this it believes. Tradition progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit (5), not as a novelty contrast (6) but with a better understanding of depositum fidei (7).

    4 The whole tradition of the Catholic faith should be the criterion and guide understanding of the teachings of Vatican II, which in turn lights - that is to say, deepens and explicit later - some aspects of life and the doctrine of the Church, implicitly present in it or not yet formulated conceptually (8).

    5 The statements of Vatican II and Papal Magisterium post on the relationship between the Catholic Church and non-Catholic Christian denominations, as well as social duty of religion and the right to religious freedom, the formulation is difficult consistent with the doctrinal affirmations previous Magisterium, must be understood in the light of Tradition complete and uninterrupted, consistent with the truths previously taught by the Magisterium of the Church, without accepting any interpretation of these assertions can wear to expose Catholic doctrine in opposition or break with tradition and with the Magisterium.

    6 Therefore it is legitimate to promote a legitimate discussion the study and theological explanation of expressions and formulations of the Second Vatican Council and the Magisterium that followed, in case they do not seem to reconcile with the previous Magisterium of the Church (9).

    7 We declare recognize the validity of the sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacraments celebrated with the intention of doing what the Church according to the rites shown in the typical editions of the Roman Missal and Rituals of the Sacraments legitimately promulgated by Pope Paul VI and John Paul II.

    8 In accordance with the criteria set out above (III, 5), and the canon 21 of the Code, we pledge to respect the common discipline of the Church and the ecclesiastical laws, especially those contained in the Code of Canon Law promulgated by Pope John Paul II (1983) and the Code of Canon Law of the Eastern Churches promulgated by the same Pontiff (1990), without prejudice to the discipline to grant to the Society of Saint Pius X by a special law.
    - ------------
    We read rating: -
    (1) See also the new formula for the Profession of Faith and Oath of Fidelity to take a load exerted on behalf of the Church, 1989 cf. Cann CIC 749, 750, 1 and 2, 752; CCEO cann. 597, 598, 1 and 2 599.
    (2) Pius XII encyclical Humani Generis.
    (3) Vatican I, Dogmatic Constitution Pastor aeternus, Dz. 3070.
    (4) Council of Trent, Dz. 1501: "Any saving truth and moral teaching (Matt. XVI, 15) are contained in books and in the unwritten traditions which, received by the Apostles from the mouth of Christ himself or transmitted as hand hand by the Apostles at the dictation of the Holy Spirit, have come down to us. "
    (5) See Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Dei Verbum, 8 and 9, Denz.4209-4210.
    (6) Vatican I, Dogmatic Constitution Dei Filius, Dz. 3020: "So should we always retain the meaning of the sacred dogmas that Holy Mother the Church has determined once and for all, and never deviate under the guise and name of a superior intelligence of these dogmas. Grow so abundantly and multiply in each as in all, all men as well as in the whole Church, in the course of ages and centuries, intelligence, knowledge and wisdom, but only in the row that suits them, that is to say, in the unity of dogma, meaning and way of seeing (St. Vincent of Lérins, Commonitorium, 28). "
    (7) Vatican I, Dogmatic Constitution Dei Filius, Dz. 3011 Oath antimodernist, No. 4, Pius XII, Encyclical Letter Humani Generis, Dz 3886, the Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Dei Verbum, 10, Dz. 4213.
    (8) As such the teaching of the sacramentality of the episcopate in Lumen Gentium, No. 21.
    (9) There is a parallel in the history of Armenians with the Decree of the Council of Florence, where the porrection instruments was indicated as the matter of the sacrament of Order. Nevertheless theologians discussed legitimately, even after this decree, the accuracy of such an assertion, and finally the issue was resolved in another way by Pope Pius XII.
    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #7 on: March 09, 2013, 02:59:13 PM »
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  • Quote
    5 The statements of Vatican II and Papal Magisterium post on the relationship between the Catholic Church and non-Catholic Christian denominations, as well as social duty of religion and the right to religious freedom, the formulation is difficult consistent with the doctrinal affirmations previous Magisterium, must be understood in the light of Tradition complete and uninterrupted, consistent with the truths previously taught by the Magisterium of the Church, without accepting any interpretation of these assertions can wear to expose Catholic doctrine in opposition or break with tradition and with the Magisterium.


     :facepalm:

    This is just embarrassing.


    Offline suger

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #8 on: March 09, 2013, 03:00:36 PM »
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  • Here a quick translation, intense work, I hope I left no mistakes.
    I did not translate the footnotes (= references to councils, etc.)




    DOCTRINAL DECLARATION FROM APRIL 15 AVRIL, 2012, WHICH MGR FELLAY SENT TO CARDINAL LEVADA

    I

    We plight to always be faithful to the Catholic Church and to the Roman Pontiff, Christ's vicar, successor of Peter and head of the body of bishops.

    II

    We declare that we accept the teachings of the Church's magisterium regarding matters of faith and morals, giving to each doctrinal statement the required degree of assent, according to the doctrine contained in item 25 of the Lumen Gentium dogmatic constitution of the Second Vatican Council (1).

     III In particular:

    1 We declare accepting the doctrine re. the Roman Pontiff and the College of bishops, with its head, the Pope, as taught by the Pastor Aeternus dogmatic constitution of the first Vatican Council and by the Lumen Gentium dogmatic constitution of the Second Vatican Council, chapter 3 (De constitutione hierarchica Ecclesiæ et in specie de episcopatu), explained and interpreted by the Nota explicativa prævia to this very chapter.

    2 We recognize the authority of the Magisterium to which only is entrusted the task of authentically  interpreting the Word of God written or transmitted (2) in faithfulness to the Tradition, remembering that « the Holy Spirit was not promised to Peter's successors so that they may make known, under his revelation, a new doctrine, but so as to, with its assistance, they may saintly keep and faithfully express the revelation handed over by the Apostles, i.e. the deposit of faith » (3).

    3 The Tradition is the living transmission of the Revelation « usque ad nos » (4) and the Church in its doctrine, in its life and in its cult, perpetuates and transmits to all generations what it is and all what it believes. The Tradition progresses within the Church with the assistance of the Holy Spirit (5), not as a contrary novelty (6) but by a better understanding of the depositum fidei (7).

    4 The entire Tradition of the Catholic faith must be the criterion and the guide for understanding the teachings of the Second Vatican Council, which in turn illuminates – i.e. deepens and further clarifies– some aspects of the life and of the doctrine of the Church, implicitly presents in its midst or not yet conceptually formulated (8).

    5 The statements of the Second Vatican Council and of the later pontifical magisterium re. the  relationship between the Catholic Church and the non-Catholic Christian confessions, also re. the social duty of of religion and the right to religious freedom, whose formulation is difficult to reconcile with the former doctrinal statements of the Magisterium, must be understood in the light of the entire and uninterrupted Tradition, in a manner consistent with the truths previously taught by the Church's magisterium, without accepting any interpretation of these statements which may lead to expound the Catholic doctrine in opposition or in rupture with the Tradition and with this Magisterium.

    6 This is why it is legitimate to promote by a legitimate discussion the study and the theological explanation of expressions and of formulations of the Second Vatican Council and of  the consecutive magisterium, in the case where it appears that they cannot be reconciled with the previous Church Magisterium (9).

    7 We declare that we recognise the validity of the sacrifice of the Mass and of the Sacraments celebrated with the intent of doing what the Church does with the rites referred in the typical editions of the Roman Missal and the Sacramental Ritual legitimately promulgated by popes Paul VI and  Jean-Paul II.

    8 By following the criteria set out above (III, 5), as well as canon 21 of the Code, we plight to respect the Church's common discipline and the ecclesiastical laws, especially those contained in the Code of canon law promulgated  by pope John-Paul II (1983) in the code of canon law of the Eastern Churches promulgated by the same Pontiff (1990), reserving the right of a discipline to be conceded to the Society of Saint Pius X by a particular law.
    —————————————–
    On lit en note :–
    (1) Cf. aussi la nouvelle formule de la Profession de foi et du Serment de fidélité pour assumer une charge exercée au nom de l’Eglise, 1989 ; cf. CIC cann 749 ; 750, 1et 2 ; 752 ; CCEO cann. 597 ; 598, 1 et 2 ; 599.
    (2) Cf. Pie XII, encyclique Humani Generis.
    (3) Vatican I, Constitution dogmatique, Pastor aeternus, Dz. 3070.
    (4) Concile de Trente, Dz. 1501 : « Toute vérité salutaire et toute règle morale (Mt. XVI, 15) sont contenues dans les livres écrits et dans les traditions non écrites qui, reçues par les Apôtres de la bouche du Christ lui-même ou transmises comme de la main à la main par les Apôtres sous la dictée de l’Esprit Saint, sont parvenues jusqu’à nous. »
    (5) Cf. Concile Vatican II, Constitution dogmatique Dei Verbum, 8 et 9, Denz.4209-4210.
    (6) Vatican I, Constitution dogmatique Dei Filius, Dz. 3020 : « Aussi doit-on toujours retenir le sens des dogmes sacrés que la sainte Mère l’Eglise a déterminé une fois pour toutes, et ne jamais s’en écarter sous le prétexte et au nom d’une intelligence supérieure de ces dogmes. Croissent donc et se multiplient abondamment, dans chacun comme dans tous, chez tous les hommes aussi bien que dans toute l’Eglise, durant le cours des âges et des siècles, l’intelligence, la science et la sagesse ; mais seulement dans le rang qui leur convient, c’est-à-dire dans l’unité du dogme, de sens et de manière de voir (St. Vincent de Lérins, Commonitorium, 28). »
    (7) Vatican I, Constitution dogmatique Dei Filius, Dz. 3011 ; Serment antimoderniste, nº 4 ; Pie XII, Lettre encyclique Humani Generis, Dz 3886 ; Concile Vatican II, Constitution dogmatique Dei Verbum, 10, Dz. 4213.
    (8) Comme par exemple l’enseignement de la sacramentalité de l’épiscopat in Lumen Gentium, nº 21.
    (9) On trouve un parallèle dans l’histoire avec le Décret des Arméniens du Concile de Florence, où la porrection des instruments était indiquée comme matière du sacrement de l’Ordre. Néanmoins les théologiens discutèrent légitimement, même après ce décret, sur l’exactitude d’une telle assertion ; finalement la question fut résolue d’une autre façon par le pape Pie XII.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #9 on: March 09, 2013, 03:05:54 PM »
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  • Will wait for a more precise translation, but at cursory review, I think there are some major problems with #4, 7, and 8.

    #4 opens a floodgate for every novelty;

    #7 says the new sacraments were legitimately promulgated and certainly valid;

    #8 says we ought not have any issue with many scandalous things promoted in the new code, such as communicatio in sacris.


    Oops: Just saw Suger made a translation too........
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #10 on: March 09, 2013, 03:06:56 PM »
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  • It seems to me that a critical point is to state the new Rites were legitimately promulgated.

    (that we didn't know about before)

    That is hidden by the smokescreen of admitting they are valid -

    The Church cannot legitimately promulgate harmful rites.

    So if the SSPX accepted this then it would mean it implicitly accepts the Novus Ordo.

    Just as the document admits that Vatican II is implicit in Church Tradition.

    And gives to Vatican II the level of assent required in Lumen Gentium.

    Quote
    This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking.


    So Vatican II is admitted to be authentic magisterium, the new rites are admitted to be "legitimately promulgated"

    So to accept the preamble is to accept Vatican II and the New Mass.


    Offline Matto

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #11 on: March 09, 2013, 03:06:56 PM »
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  • This is troubling. :smash-pc:

    This sounds like wolves howling.
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #12 on: March 09, 2013, 03:07:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Will wait for a more precise translation, but at cursory review, I think there are some major problems with #4, 7, and 8.

    #4 opens a floodgate for every novelty;

    #7 says the new sacraments were legitimately promulgated and certainly valid;

    #8 says we ought not have any issue with many scandalous things promoted in the new code, such as communicatio in sacris.


    Oops: Just saw Suger made a translation too........


    Yeah, those are all bad, especially #8.

    But #5 is bad as well.

    Offline suger

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #13 on: March 09, 2013, 03:08:25 PM »
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  • A small translation note :

    when translating, I realise the text was not written in a logical manner re. grammar and semantics. I did not change (improve) those things, which show how intellectually limited Fellay and co. are.
    Likewise, they are not even lexically consistent, (although this is crucial for a legal document)...
    so either using "magistère" or "Magisterium".
    I translated like this (keeping the upper case)
    magistère --> magisterium
    Magisterium  --> Magisterium.

    Now I am having a well deserved break, this was tiring to try translate this very accurately in so little time as possible...

    Offline Pius IX

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    Fellays doctrinal declaration leaked document for the sellout
    « Reply #14 on: March 09, 2013, 03:45:06 PM »
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  • "7 Nous déclarons reconnaître la validité du sacrifice de la Messe et des Sacrements célébrés avec l’intention de faire ce que fait l’Eglise selon les rites indiqués dans les éditions typiques du Missel romain et des Rituels des Sacrements légitimement promulgués par les papes Paul VI et Jean-Paul II."

    That's pretty troubling.

     

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