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Offline Unbrandable

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Father Wegners sermon in Toronto
« on: June 18, 2013, 10:56:36 PM »
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  • Aside from some small grammatical changes I made, which you will find in brackets, these are the exact words of Father Wegner.  Feel free to correct any mistakes I made or to fill in missing parts (the question marks).

    Father Wegner’s sermon in Toronto                                     May 13, 2012

    These past weeks, the newspapers, the internet, (the) television were full of news about the Society.  From all sides, all kinds of reactions. Now, to better understand our situation and to better know what to do, today I want to recall a little bit the history of the Society and Rome, and I want to try to give an idea of what should be our reaction as faithful.  
    You know, in 1988, Archbishop Lefebvre, knowing he was already a certain age, he said, “I have to guarantee the future of the Society.” And he had relations and talks with Rome in order to ask for at least one bishop for the Society. We all know that at the time, these talks, they end abruptly, since there was no way (that) Rome would grant us a bishop, since there was a clear situation of “we don’t want the Society to exist anymore.” Archbishop Lefebvre said, “I have to consecrate four bishops.” What he did, and what ended up with this document of excommunication of the four bishops, and which started a period of many years without any contacts between the Society and Rome.        
    It’s strange. In the year 2000, it was the year of the Jubilee, and the Society organized a big pilgrimage going to Rome, and there, the Roman authorities - looking at this big crowd of some 5 or 6 thousand faithful praying - looking at these 300 priests present, the sisters, the religious - seeing the serious(ness) of these persons - they started to recontact, and there was the first meeting at the time between the four bishops of the Society and Cardinal Hoyos. True, after long years of somewhat persecution, the Society would say, “We don’t trust you. We just want – what we first want to see (is) clear signs that you’re positive to us - Tradition.” And so there were two conditions fixed to make sure that Rome really wants the good of Tradition. And you know, these two preconditions with  (?)  were first of all the liberation of the Mass (for) all priests, and the second one, the lifting of the Decree of the Excommunications. This was in the year 2000. And I can tell you many people, or some one of my faithful, a contractor, he said to me “Father, what the Bishop is asking, what the Society is asking is an exaggeration. Never Rome will do this for you.” And he said, “I’m the boss in my company. If one of my employees would come up to me with similar conditions, if he would say, ‘I will work for you, if you do this and that,’ I would just tell him this, ‘I don’t believe you.’ I would just send him away.” This is what many people were feeling, thinking when the Society stated – fixed –these conditions. And the contacts between Rome and the Society went on. There were regular contacts once, twice, sometimes three times a year, but that’s it.  
    In 2006, during the General Chapter of the Society, looking at the situation between the Society and Rome, the General Chapter first of all renewed the Declaration – the famous Declaration of Archbishop Lefebvre from the year 1974 - stating clearly that the Society would always fight against the novelties of Vatican 2, would always fight against the loss of faith. And the Society stated – decided – to start a first crusade of the Rosary. And the first crusade of the Rosary just wanted to collect one million rosaries. And the goal was fixed to want to pray these rosaries for the freeing up of the Mas, to make and to help to give the graces from heaven, that the Pope - that Rome - would give the right to every priest to say the Mass. And this Rosary Crusade was announced in 2006, in July, after the General Chapter and was started. And more or less immediately, there was the first announcement that the Pope was ready to free up the Mass. But now this took some time. It was the first announcement in October 2006, the second one in December 2006. Finally, in July 2007, there was (the) issue of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, which said that every priest would say the old Mass, that every priest would use the traditional breviary, that every faithful had the right to ask, for example, that a child could be baptized in a traditional rite, and that the children could receive the sacraments – the sacrament of Confirmation – its rites – the full blessings of objects.  Every priest would use the traditional ritual.  Sure, this document is not perfect. We would have liked that the Pope would never have spoken about these two rites – the extraordinary rite and the ordinary rite. But it was a big step and you know that not all the bishops in the world, they’re in favor of this document. Even now, that oftentimes they make it difficult for the faithful, difficult for the priests, to celebrate or to assist at the Mass in the traditional rite. It was a positive step. Once this first condition was fulfilled, the Society started the second Rosary Crusade - thirty million rosaries and asking for the lifting of the excommunications. Nobody would believe it would happen.  
    And I can tell you, it was in January of 2009, I was over in Europe on a visit, and the Bishop, speak(ing) about the situation here in Canada, he told me, “Father, crazy things will happen within the next days.”  And he told me that Rome wanted to lift the excommunications, and he said “Father, Bishop Williamson gave an interview in Germany two months ago. The media withheld this interview for a certain time.  And the media, now knowing that the Pope wants to lift the excommunications, told him, “If you issue a document to lift the excommunications, we will publish this interview and we will tell all the world that you are behind somebody denying the holocaust.” So Rome knew that this decision to lift the excommunications would be followed by an attack on the Pope and the Church. And nevertheless, the Pope, he would do what would be the last thing, he would lift the excommunications. Again, there are some imperfections in this document, but the step was made.  
    After these conditions were fulfilled, discussions started between Rome and the Society, and during two years, both sides would get together to explain the different positions, to discuss, for example, collegiality, religious liberty, the magisterium of the Church. These discussions helped both sides to see clearly where the other would stand. And it came out that the big discussion(s), the big point(s) are doctrines - the new doctrines of Vatican 2. And it was stated afterwards, that these differences, they cannot be resolved in short term. And what nobody was expecting, immediately after these discussions, Rome came up with a document - with a preambule for the Society – with a gift to the Society -   (?)   the structure within the Church. Never the Society was asking for this. This coming from Rome: “We want to give you a status within the Church. We want to give you a place. Hear what would we suggest to you and hear our conditions.” And you know that Mgr. Fellay, he gave two negative answers to this document. One, on the first of December last year, and one on the 12th of January of this year. And on the 16th (of ) March, the response of Rome was, “You have to accept the document. We can rediscuss the conditions, but you have to pronounce before April 15th.” And Mgr. Fellay answered to Rome that there will never be a discussion about the Faith and it is impossible for us to negotiate on the  (?)  .  But we always will continue to preach the Faith and to criticize the errors. Monsignor at first stated also, that he would never accept a solution which would not give the total liberty for the Society and the economy of action. And it was this document that made all the media say, “Bishop Fellay accepted the solution from Rome.”     (?)     It’s not this. He said the document which is studied by Rome for us has to be very clear. The most important in all this for us is the Faith. We have to serve God. We have to serve God or respect Him. It is clear for us, whatever happens, they have to guarantee the liberty for the Society which will continue to practice our Faith. The liberty to preach our Faith. But there’s also the principle: to be Catholic and to stay Catholic, we have to be Roman. There’s no Catholic Church without having Christ on top of it. And there’s no Catholic Church where there’s no Pope. It’s strong. There are acts. There are teachings of the Pope where we have to say, “That’s not Tradition. That’s not what we find in Holy Scripture. In this point we cannot follow him.” But does that mean that he’s no longer Pope?   Does that mean that there’s no point, no   (?)  that Jesus Christ speaks through him? Does that mean that Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost quit Rome? Does that mean that we have the right to say, “    (?)   , we decide “. This idea and this mindset! People saying Rome is just the Antichrist is the mindset of the non-Catholic. What should we do? What do we have to do?
    I will give you the opinion of an outsider. You know we redesigned the Angelus and it was a company – it has nothing to do with the Faith – to help for this work. And in this company, the director - he’s the director of concept and strategy - and he went to Menzingen to see and to speak about the Society.  After 6 hours of discussion with the Bishop, he said, “Monsignor, the Society is wrong. The strategy of the Society is wrong. What you are doing is what you were doing 20, 30, 40 years ago. When the Society started, there was this discussion, for example, of the new mass and the old mass and you were fighting. You were defending yourself. You were regressed and you had enemies. And since you were regressed, you kept your faith. And some way, you had to progress some. What’s old from the Church, nowadays.  Everything you can read about the Church is just ruins. (The)Closing of Church(es), priests leaving their ministry, empty Churches. What you are doing today is just fighting of empty ruins.” And he said, ”You should start to build … if you explain nowadays to young people.” And he said, “I can give you an example of my own person. I’m a Catholic but I don’t practice anymore. Once I saw the nice pictures of your liturgy. Once I could speak with your priests about the rites of the Mass and they discovered to me the   (?)    you have. I started to love Tradition. That’s what you have to do. You have to build and you have to stop the battle in empty ruins.” What we have to do is to pay attention not to form this  (?)   errors of the Council.
    You know this week, for example, were published letters which has been sent from (the) three Bishops of the Society to Mgr. Fellay. And the answer of the letter – the answer of Mgr. Fellay – published on the internet. What’s the point of moral theology? If you write me a letter which is confidential - it’s your letter and I would post it in the back of the Church – I’m pretty sure you will not be very content. And I can tell you, for me, it would be a mortal sin. A letter to me – sent confidential – a private letter – I have no right to publish it. And if I want to publish it, I have to ask permission from the person who sent it. I have no idea who put these letters on the internet, but I know the person who did, committed the sin, and it breaks me, and in some way, if I wouldn’t be in charge of the faithful here in Canada, I would never have read this letter because (it was) not destined to me. And when I see now some faithful - seeing the reactions of some faithful – even priests – it’s the error of the Council. They are doing collegiality. We have the Society, we have the Superior General – our Superior . It’s up to him to make decisions. It’s not up to the faithful. It’s not up to me. It’s therefore that we have a Superior. And I can tell you I’m happy that I don’t have this responsibility.
    You know, this week, I received a letter – I read a letter – from somebody – from a priest – an old priest - not a member of the Society, and he said, “Where’s the problem? Where’s the problem? Mgr. Fellay is Superior General in the Society for 18 years.” And he said, ”Without wanting to do bad to Mgr. Lefebvre, if you’re looking on this 18 years of Tradition, you can say that in some way, Mgr. Fellay had as much success, or perhaps even more success than Archbishop Lefebvre. And at every point, his decisions - even if people laughed - well now we can say at every point he made the good decision – the right decision - and he merits that we trust him.” Where’s the point? Just obey. Just accept. True, we will think, “We’ll see what will happen.” But we can be sure he’s our good shepherd. For us, the most important thing this time is prayer.
    Well, we’re at the end of our Rosary Crusade which will end at Pentecost. Grab the rosary this week and say it once or twice or three times, and through these prayers that we started to do to the Holy Ghost, that God will give the grace in this situation that the will of God will have fruit. That’s what we want to ask for today. That we seek refuge in Our Lady, that she will be the one, the Immaculate, for to proceed in this battle and to remain, that (her) Immaculate Heart will be victorious in this fight. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.  Amen.

    Offline Machabees

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    Father Wegners sermon in Toronto
    « Reply #1 on: June 19, 2013, 12:31:51 AM »
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  • Quote
    Excerpt from Father Wegner’s sermon in Toronto May 13, 2012

    "...I will give you the opinion of an outsider. You know we redesigned the Angelus and it was a company – it has nothing to do with the Faith – to help for this work. And in this company, the director - he’s the director of concept and strategy - and he went to Menzingen to see and to speak about the Society. After 6 hours of discussion with the Bishop, he said, “Monsignor, the Society is wrong. The strategy of the Society is wrong. What you are doing is what you were doing 20, 30, 40 years ago. When the Society started, there was this discussion, for example, of the new mass and the old mass and you were fighting. You were defending yourself. You were regressed and you had enemies. And since you were regressed, you kept your faith. And some way, you had to progress some. What’s old from the Church, nowadays. Everything you can read about the Church is just ruins. (The)Closing of Church(es), priests leaving their ministry, empty Churches. What you are doing today is just fighting of empty ruins.” And he said, ”You should start to build … if you explain nowadays to young people.” And he said, “I can give you an example of my own person. I’m a Catholic but I don’t practice anymore. Once I saw the nice pictures of your liturgy. Once I could speak with your priests about the rites of the Mass and they discovered to me the (?) you have. I started to love Tradition. That’s what you have to do. You have to build and you have to stop the battle in empty ruins.” What we have to do is to pay attention not to form this (?) errors of the Council."


    Well...Well...well, here it is from the horse's mouth.

    After a bunch of babble of trying and insert a new "narrative", Fr. Wegner's statements on the SSPX branding vindicates Fr. Patrick Girouard June 2, 2013 sermon, that the SSPX has been BRANDED.  

    Truth always comes out...one way or the other.


    Offline Francisco

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    Father Wegners sermon in Toronto
    « Reply #2 on: June 19, 2013, 12:53:32 AM »
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  • Will they replace him as Canada's Superior with that fellow opportunist and Clique Member, Daniel Couture, I wonder?

    Offline chrstnoel1

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    Father Wegners sermon in Toronto
    « Reply #3 on: June 19, 2013, 01:04:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: Francisco
    Will they replace him as Canada's Superior with that fellow opportunist and Clique Member, Daniel Couture, I wonder?


    Very possible. :reporter: It seems that Fr. Salvador is out, Fr. Loskee? ( not sure of the spelling ) from Ireland will be transferred to Singapore. Ex-SPX Rev. Mr. Hattrup (to be ordained priest in Winona on Friday, 21st June, will be assigned to the Asian District in the Philippines. So it is two into Asia and one out.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Father Wegners sermon in Toronto
    « Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 01:42:11 AM »
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  • .


    Of course, as is always so predictable, he does not say that the "rumor"
    was true after all.  A good con man never admits to having been wrong.
    This is so he preserves the ability to later on say that you should not
    listen to Internet rumours, and you should not read letters that are
    confidential.  Oh-- he says that right here in this same sermon!  I rest
    my case.  He verifies that the rebranding took place, but he changes up
    some details, so that he can then (later) say that it's a 'different story'.  




    In Fr. Wegner's version, the rebranding representative of the forgettable
    Flemish name Dutch company is a fallen-away Catholic.  But he won't use
    that judgmental term, of course.  "I’m a Catholic but I don’t practice
    anymore."  Doesn't that sound nice?  

    How about, "I'm a mother but I don't practice anymore."  Or, "I'm my
    father's son, but I don't practice anymore."  How about, "I'm a registered
    voter but I don't vote anymore."  Or this one, "I'm an expert on being
    green
    but I don't recycle anymore."

    How about, "I've got 30 years' experience as an animal rights activist
    but I don't practice kindness to animals anymore. I step on spiders and
    I enjoy it. I swat flies but not too hard because now I like to watch them
    get better so I can swat them again."  

    Or, "I'm not an advocate of Greenpeace anymore.  I don't volunteer for Heal
    the Bay anymore.  I gave up my participation with Habitat for Humanity."  

    Doesn't that sound nice, too?  Doesn't it make you want to hire this guy
    to re-brand your environmentalism club with a whole new image?  Don't
    it though?  I mean, who could be better qualified to give an "outside
    opinion" than an apostate environmentalist??

    And who could be better qualified to give spiritual direction to the Superior
    General of the SSPX than a fallen-away Catholic working for a pagan
    Dutch company with a forgettable Flemish name?




    In Fr. Wegner's version, it was AFTER the 6-hour session with +Fellay
    that the fallen-away Catholic said that the Society has it all wrong.  

    Well, Fr. Wegner has it all wrong, but you wouldn't know that unless you
    had already heard Fr. Girouard's better version, because it gives more
    detail and is more comprehensible.  Notice Fr. Wegner doesn't bother to
    mention that it was about two months LATER, after the 6-hour meeting,
    that he told +F that the Society has it all wrong.  He just says, “After 6
    hours of discussion with the Bishop, he said, Monsignor, the Society is
    wrong. The strategy of the Society is wrong.”

    Now, note the ambiguity.  The reader is led to believe that it's a different
    story, because it would seem that AT THE END OF THE 6 HOURS is when
    this fallen-away Catholic told the SG that the Society is wrong.  But
    that is not what happened at all.  The purpose of the 6 hours was for
    B. Fellay to answer 150 questions the fallen-away Catholic asked him,
    at the end of which he agreed to take the job of re-branding the SSPX.
    It wasn't until tens of thousands of Euros and several weeks later that
    this practical pagan had the conclusion prepared to tell B. Fellay that
    the Society is wrong.

    But if you were to question him, Fr. Wegner could say that he did not
    deny that it was 6 weeks later, but that he had only said, "After (the)
    6 hours discussion, he said the strategy of the Society is wrong."  He
    may not have clarified that it was 6 weeks after, but it WAS "after."






    Fr. Pfeiffer, in his June 16th sermon, says you should go to the NEW
    sspx.org website and look in the About area to read that the Society
    holds as ABL said, "I believe in love."  But that's not what ABL said.  
    A proper translation of the Latin is, "We believe in charity."  These are
    not the same thing.  Now it appears, under the re-branded ExSPX, we
    can't even give a correct translation of a two-word motto of the
    Founder - and that's a problem.  

    ..............Absolute foolishness.  




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    Offline Ekim

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    « Reply #5 on: June 19, 2013, 09:20:26 AM »
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  • I don't think "Rebranding" in and of itself is a problem.  If a newer, fresher look is more appealing to the world at large and will win souls for Christ, then so be it.  The problem is the change in attitude and withdrawal from the attack on modernism and modernists.  In the middle of the war, instead of continuing the bombardment on the enemy as they get weaker and weaker, the SSPX suddenly has laid down its arms and started saying "Can't we all just get along?"  

    They no longer carry the message of the Archbishop.  Their new fancy look has thrown out the FIGHT for Catholic truth!

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    « Reply #6 on: June 19, 2013, 10:03:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: Machabees
    Quote
    Excerpt from Father Wegner’s sermon in Toronto May 13, 2012

    "...I will give you the opinion of an outsider. You know we redesigned the Angelus and it was a company – it has nothing to do with the Faith – to help for this work. And in this company, the director - he’s the director of concept and strategy - and he went to Menzingen to see and to speak about the Society. After 6 hours of discussion with the Bishop, he said, “Monsignor, the Society is wrong. The strategy of the Society is wrong. What you are doing is what you were doing 20, 30, 40 years ago. When the Society started, there was this discussion, for example, of the new mass and the old mass and you were fighting. You were defending yourself. You were regressed and you had enemies. And since you were regressed, you kept your faith. And some way, you had to progress some. What’s old from the Church, nowadays. Everything you can read about the Church is just ruins. (The)Closing of Church(es), priests leaving their ministry, empty Churches. What you are doing today is just fighting of empty ruins.” And he said, ”You should start to build … if you explain nowadays to young people.” And he said, “I can give you an example of my own person. I’m a Catholic but I don’t practice anymore. Once I saw the nice pictures of your liturgy. Once I could speak with your priests about the rites of the Mass and they discovered to me the (?) you have. I started to love Tradition. That’s what you have to do. You have to build and you have to stop the battle in empty ruins.” What we have to do is to pay attention not to form this (?) errors of the Council."


    Well...Well...well, here it is from the horse's mouth.

    After a bunch of babble of trying and insert a new "narrative", Fr. Wegner's statements on the SSPX branding vindicates Fr. Patrick Girouard June 2, 2013 sermon, that the SSPX has been BRANDED.  

    Truth always comes out...one way or the other.


    Well, well, well. "Oh but did you hear Fr. Wegner's side of the story."

    "Why yes, now, Fr. Themann, I have. It confirms what Fr. Giouard said."
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #7 on: June 19, 2013, 12:14:58 PM »
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  • .



    Quote from: Ekim
    I don't think "Rebranding" in and of itself is a problem.  If a newer, fresher look is more appealing to the world at large and will win souls for Christ, then so be it.  




    So you're all in favor of asking the advice of a fallen-away Catholic
    for what to do to evangelize?  

    When you want a newer, fresher look for your Mosque, you ought to
    ask a Jew who used to be Moslem, right?  And if you want a newer,
    fresher look
    for your TV dinner packaging, you ought to ask a
    Marie Calendar's salesman who jumped ship for Hungry Man, right?
    So by that logic, the lone holdout for Catholic Tradition looking for a
    newer, fresher look
    ought to go for the apostate viewpoint to
    reformulate what the Church teaches by way of its approach to
    evangelization, right?  



    In Fr. Wegner's version, the rebranding representative of the forgettable
    Flemish name Dutch company is a fallen-away Catholic.  But he won't use
    that judgmental term, of course.  "I’m a Catholic but I don’t practice
    anymore."  Doesn't that sound nice?


    So, here you are with your environmentalist club, thinking that you
    guys need a newer, fresher look, and so who do you hire to tell you
    how to accomplish that?

    How about, "I'm a mother but I don't practice anymore."  Or, "I'm my
    father's son, but I don't practice anymore."  How about, "I'm a registered
    voter but I don't vote anymore."  Or this one, "I'm an expert on being
    green but I don't recycle anymore."

    How about, "I've got 30 years' experience as an animal rights activist
    but I don't practice kindness to animals anymore. I step on spiders and
    I enjoy it. I swat flies but not too hard because now I like to watch them
    get better so I can swat them again."

    Or, "I'm not an advocate of Greenpeace anymore.  I don't volunteer for Heal
    the Bay anymore.  I gave up my participation with Habitat for Humanity."

    Doesn't that sound nice, too?  Doesn't it make you want to hire this guy
    to re-brand your environmentalism club with a whole new image?  Don't
    it though?  I mean, who could be better qualified to give an "outside
    opinion" than an apostate environmentalist??

    And who could be better qualified to give spiritual direction to the Superior
    General of the SSPX than a fallen-away Catholic working for a pagan
    Dutch company with a forgettable Flemish name?

    Quote

    The problem is the change in attitude and withdrawal from the attack on modernism and modernists.  In the middle of the war, instead of continuing the bombardment on the enemy as they get weaker and weaker, the SSPX suddenly has laid down its arms and started saying "Can't we all just get along?"  

    They no longer carry the message of the Archbishop.  Their new fancy look has thrown out the FIGHT for Catholic truth!




    I'm really amused to see people who ought to know better saying that
    it's okay to change appearances of Tradition when in many ways,
    appearance is exactly what makes Tradition what it is.  

    This "newer, fresher look to win souls for Christ" is exactly the refrain
    of the unclean spirit of Vatican II that ended up sweeping away just
    about every major earmark of Catholic Tradition that there was left
    after Bugnini got in his Holy Week changes in 1956, and before the
    infamous 1960 came along.  




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    Offline Ekim

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    « Reply #8 on: June 19, 2013, 02:56:44 PM »
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  • Sorry Neil,  

    You read too much into what I said.  I NEVER said it was okay to hire a fallen away Catholic.  But then again, aren't we all fallen away at one time or another, thank goodness for the grace of the confessional and the mercy of God.  Would you also condemn St. Don Bosco for inviting some of the most vile of street erchant’s to join his oratory?

    That however was not the point of my posting.  

    The point is, changing a letter head, a newsletter banner, or home page on a website so that it is more visually appealing / interesting, while keeping the content the same does not contradict faith and morals.  This is NOT Tradition.  No different than the Cure' of Ares throwing out his old tattered cassock and putting on a new one. Or the publisher of the Dewey Rheims bible changing the book cover.  The content is the same.

    Let's not look for sin and error in every comment that is made.  Sometimes, what is said is exactly what is meant to be said.  No need to read between the lines.

    Offline Unbrandable

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    « Reply #9 on: June 19, 2013, 03:32:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: SeanGovan

    You are right that the primary concern is the content. But that is only true because the primary concern is doctrine. The primary concern is the Truth. If you don't have the Truth, you have nothing.

    Therefore, the appearance is also important. The appearance sends the message "We are hip. We are are worldly wise. We are up to date. We are out to please the customer. We are out to please the world."

    So you are wrong to say that whether the new design is good or bad is "up to individual tastes." That is false. The new site tells people that there is no friction between their neo-pagan, anti-Christ culture and Jesus Christ.

    Even if the content of this website was the whole true doctrine and only the true doctrine, it would still be a bad website. The design alone is enough to encourage Catholics to go along with the world.


    Sean Govan makes some very good points on another thread. I find he sums it up quite well.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Father Wegners sermon in Toronto
    « Reply #10 on: June 19, 2013, 03:37:14 PM »
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    Maybe they were going to make some superficial cosmetic changes
    anyway.  Maybe they had been thinking about a new letterhead, a
    new website look & feel, a newer, glossier newsletter format. After
    all, when 80 million Euros are burning a hole in your pocket you've
    got to do something different, right?

    Okay, that's reasonable.  Even the Cure d'Ars needs a new cassock
    eventually, even if it's for the sake of common decency.

    Then there is the intention and the opportunity.  


    'If we're going to make all these image adjustments, why don't we
    organize our new image according to the recommendations of an
    apostate marketing executive working for a pagan Dutch company
    with a forgettable Flemish name?'  



    The funny thing about principles is, they don't go away.  



    Now the new sspx.org website misquotes ABL (who said the motto
    of the Society was, "We believe in charity") by writing that he said,
    "I have believed in love."  Fr. Pfeiffer observes that when you can't
    seem to get a two-word Latin motto right, you've got a problem.

    Now Fr. Rostand's "Timeline," starting on page 12 of the new Regina
    Coeli Report Special Edidion - June 2013,
    is conspicuously missing
    key facts, arguably everything that could be used to show the
    liberalizing trend that began, gosh, in 1991:  The first missing date
    in the Timeline, that is, the Timeline that has no mention of the death
    of the Founder!  
    Apparently the holy death of the venerable Founder
    is somehow quite forgettable for the purpose of aggiornamento
    with apostate Rome.


    Nor does it mention the election of the SG +Fellay.
    Nor does it mention the beginning of GREC.
    Nor does it mention the GC of 2006 when +F was re-elected
    Nor does it mention any one of the political appointments of his minions
    Nor does it mention the resolution of '06 concerning the conversion of Rome

    There's a lot more:  Krahgate, Rebranding project, Unjust and Illicit and
    unprecedented exclusion of +W, Expulsion of the Old Guard and/or
    their replacement-that-can't-come-soon-enough... But this thread is
    about Fr. Wegner's sermon.


    We ought to focus on the principles as they relate to his sermon.



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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Father Wegners sermon in Toronto
    « Reply #11 on: June 19, 2013, 04:03:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: Unbrandable
    Quote from: SeanGovan

    You are right that the primary concern is the content. But that is only true because the primary concern is doctrine. The primary concern is the Truth. If you don't have the Truth, you have nothing.

    Therefore, the appearance is also important. The appearance sends the message "We are hip. We are are worldly wise. We are up to date. We are out to please the customer. We are out to please the world."

    So you are wrong to say that whether the new design is good or bad is "up to individual tastes." That is false. The new site tells people that there is no friction between their neo-pagan, anti-Christ culture and Jesus Christ.

    Even if the content of this website was the whole true doctrine and only the true doctrine, it would still be a bad website. The design alone is enough to encourage Catholics to go along with the world.


    Sean Govan makes some very good points on another thread. I find he sums it up quite well.



    That would be this one:


    .(which I have linked for you HERE).


    Post
    Quote from: SeanGovan
    Quote from: TKGS
    The SSPX has changed the look of its website in order to take advantage of the way people use the internet now.  As other have already said, how it looks isn't the primary concern.  The primary concern is what is the content of the new website.  I'm not too involved with the SSPX so I don't expect that I will peruse the new website all that much.  It does have a "new feel" to it and whether that is good or bad is, I suppose, up to individual tastes.  The larger question is whether there will be a positive response throughout the universe of internet users and whether it will make a positive impression upon those who have never seen the old website.


    You are right that the primary concern is the content. But that is only true because the primary concern is doctrine. The primary concern is the Truth. If you don't have the Truth, you have nothing.

    Therefore, the appearance is also important. The appearance sends the message "We are hip. We are are worldly wise. We are up to date. We are out to please the customer. We are out to please the world."

    So you are wrong to say that whether the new design is good or bad is "up to individual tastes." That is false. The new site tells people that there is no friction between their neo-pagan, anti-Christ culture and Jesus Christ.

    Even if the content of this website was the whole true doctrine and only the true doctrine, it would still be a bad website. The design alone is enough to encourage Catholics to go along with the world.




    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    Father Wegners sermon in Toronto
    « Reply #12 on: June 20, 2013, 12:54:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: Unbrandable
    Quote from: SeanGovan

    You are right that the primary concern is the content. But that is only true because the primary concern is doctrine. The primary concern is the Truth. If you don't have the Truth, you have nothing.

    Therefore, the appearance is also important. The appearance sends the message "We are hip. We are are worldly wise. We are up to date. We are out to please the customer. We are out to please the world."

    So you are wrong to say that whether the new design is good or bad is "up to individual tastes." That is false. The new site tells people that there is no friction between their neo-pagan, anti-Christ culture and Jesus Christ.

    Even if the content of this website was the whole true doctrine and only the true doctrine, it would still be a bad website. The design alone is enough to encourage Catholics to go along with the world.


    Sean Govan makes some very good points on another thread. I find he sums it up quite well.


    I liked it in that thread also.  His commentary syncs with a concern that jumped out at me in Father Wegner's sermon:
    Quote
    You know we redesigned the Angelus and it was a company – it has nothing to do with the Faith


    This is a very dangerous mindset.  How does a Catholic - in particular, a priest - separate any action from the Faith?  He cannot.    
    Quote
       
    Colossians 3:17
    All whatsoever you do in word or in work, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.


    Not to obey this simple, fundamental teaching will guarantee the action will be used by the evil one.  

    Just more subtle modernist infiltration.  


     

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