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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: sspxbvm on December 02, 2012, 10:11:42 PM

Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: sspxbvm on December 02, 2012, 10:11:42 PM
(From the website) The audio isn't the best. (Although clear) The MP3 player skipped seconds here and there, but you can still hear the propaganda and backwards talk. This is our first YOUtube video. Please forgive the inexperience!!!!! What we captured was God's will.We are resigned to that.

  They need to invest in a new MP3 player! But it is clear enough. He is calling us protesters hence PROTESTANTS.

  More damage control. Probably because of this letter we received a couple of weeks ago from "The resistance"

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vC8NgqyC38
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: ultrarigorist on December 02, 2012, 10:33:57 PM
A complete disgrace to his vocation.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: songbird on December 02, 2012, 11:18:30 PM
Question?  Did Fr. Rostand read his sermon from paper.  We see this with other cultish independent priest who are told what to say.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Machabees on December 03, 2012, 12:03:07 AM
Fr. Rostand’s sermon is once again astounding and flagrant!

Bottom line:

-   Anything outside of what the leaders of the SSPX have to say is just an “opinion”!

-   Everything that you have been taught about “false obedience” over the years from the SSPX pulpits, Fr. Rostand now reduces everything you say to an “opinion”.  More than once he kept hammering that anything asked of them is just an “opinion”.  Isn’t that a communist tactic, just keep saying it until people start to believe it?

-   Overall in his sermon, he says a lot of something without saying anything, however, implying a lot; just like the “flagrant” article on the SSPX.org "Pastor's Corner: The “need” to know all vs. peace of soul”

-   Also interesting, as Bishop Fellay had called the three other Bishops a mentality of schism – “This failure to distinguish leads one or the other of you three to an ‘absolute hardening’. This is serious because such a caricature no longer corresponds to reality and logically it will in the future finish up in a true schism. And it may well be that this fact is one of the arguments pushing me to delay no longer in responding to the pressure from Rome.” (Menzingen 14 April 2012, To their Excellencies Tissier de Mallerais, Williamson and de Galarreta.), so now Fr. Rostand calls anyone who asks questions -that you are PROTESTANTS- he said this more than once.  And we are not practicing virtue when we do not obey the authorities -so you are in rebellion (…).

Translation -do not ask any more questions- submit!

Bishop Williamson has been warning us of this…and to keep putting our trust in the Blessed Mother and Her Son.



Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Telesphorus on December 03, 2012, 12:06:50 AM
Quote
Fr. Rostand calls anyone who asks questions -that you are PROTESTANTS


"Protestants" from the "Church of +Fellay"

Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Machabees on December 03, 2012, 12:07:55 AM
Quote from: sspxbvm
(From the website) The audio isn't the best. (Although clear) The MP3 player skipped seconds here and there, but you can still hear the propaganda and backwards talk. This is our first YOUtube video. Please forgive the inexperience!!!!! What we captured was God's will.We are resigned to that.

  They need to invest in a new MP3 player! But it is clear enough. He is calling us protesters hence PROTESTANTS.

  More damage control. Probably because of this letter we received a couple of weeks ago from "The resistance"

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vC8NgqyC38



With gratitude sspxbvm...thank you for providing this.

Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: For Greater Glory on December 03, 2012, 12:18:05 AM

Sounds like Fr. Rostand is really trying to brain wash his parishioners. Why can't they be honest and admit they want to join up with the heretics? As for me, I want no part of it. I've got a soul to save. Kyrie Eleison
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Telesphorus on December 03, 2012, 12:25:42 AM
"My opinion" - here's the problem Father Rostand - "your opinion" is not that of your ordinary.

So who are you to criticize Catholics for following their own opinions on the Crisis of the Church?

Are you claiming authority to decide who is Catholic and who is not?
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 03, 2012, 02:32:16 AM
Quote from: songbird
Question?  Did Fr. Rostand read his sermon from paper.  We see this with other cultish independent priest who are told what to say.



A very interesting question!   This comes to me as a revelation, and it
makes me feel rather inadequate..  I have been listening to sermons all my
life, and have on occasion noticed that a priest will read his sermon from
a printed copy.  But whenever I have asked any such priest why he does
this, I get the run-around.  No straight answer.

Now, logically, if you put that together, even without other data, one
would think it's not a long stretch to say, "There seems to be something
going on here, but what it is, I'm not quite sure."  Well, it's been over 40
years, and I've never asked that question..  Until now, thanks to you,
songbird!  

So here are the items:

~  some priests or other speakers use a prepared text giving
     a speech or sermon
~  when asked why, they are wont to give superficial or
     unclear answers
~  they tend to have a bit of a "canned" expression, as though
     it is not from the heart in their delivery:  it's not as
     convincing as it should be
~  during his first presidential campaign, Obama did this, with
     a teleprompter
~  sometimes, when the same speaker tries to speak
    extemporaneously, he has a choppy or halting style, as if
     he has to correct himself in action
~  whether the hesitation is due to personality or something
     else I have no idea
~  sometimes the speaker is part of an organization with a
     supervisor
~  supervisors are known to be interested in controlling their
     charges
~  when the supervisor then gives his own speech, he tends
     to use no script


I shouldn't have to go much further for you to see where I'm headed.  In the
SSPX, or any other religious congregation where the speaker has a superior, it is
not beyond the realm of expectation that the superior may want to control the
words spoken by his several charges, such that his preferences or agenda do
not get sidetracked or obstructed, or in the worst case, entirely destroyed.

How does this apply to the SSPX?

Well, isn't it true that +Fellay is attempting to muzzle his priests?  Now, when
these priests are getting up to give sermons every Sunday, and +Fellay is bent
on keeping them from saying certain things, how unreasonable would it be for
him to demand that they submit their proposed sermon by e-mail to him by
Wednesday, for example, so he can review it and return a "corrected" copy
cleared for takeoff, as it were?  

Also, certain SSPX priests who have been expelled recently are rather well-known
for NOT using prepared texts.  Is it too much of a stretch to think that perhaps
the Menzingen-denizens are in a tizzy about that, and say "Na-na-na-na you're
disobedient because you refuse to submit your sermons in advance for approval?"

Edit: almost forgot: +W's ECs were precisely this, unapproved disseminations.

Let's just say it's a "hunch," or, if you prefer, an Internet rumor!  

                                             HAHAHAHAHA




Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: stgobnait on December 03, 2012, 03:51:33 AM
 i was told by a layperson.... that they had it on (good???) authority.. that if we speak of the 'unspeakable' we will not recieve graces.....
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: KyrieEleison on December 03, 2012, 04:20:11 AM
This mentality coming out of the sspx may be cultish when describing the complacency of the faithful who adhere to every stupid thing they are told from people like Fellay and Rostand but to call the leadership cultish is being to nice.  They act in a calculated slithering way that has every trait of communist tactics written all over it.  The people in the pews are the useful idiots but the ones running the show from menzingen have taken up the character of those they want to come under, they take up the characteristics of the enemies of Christ.

The sspx needs one big exorcism.   Its mentally and spiritually sick from the top and its working its way down.  In the case of the superior its easy to see how he lost it, it happens when someone fights the known Truth-with a capitol T.  In his case he fights the Truth in order to get his way.

Lord let MY will be done, that's what his plan has been all along.

Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 03, 2012, 07:20:30 AM
Quote from: Telesphorus
"My opinion" - here's the problem Father Rostand - "your opinion" is not that of your ordinary.

So who are you to criticize Catholics for following their own opinions on the Crisis of the Church?

Are you claiming authority to decide who is Catholic and who is not?


This theme of "my opinion" and "how important to me my opinion is, and not based
on the magisterium of the Church" starts in minute 11, for those in a hurry.

So, when in the history of the Church has the individual's own personal convictions
been off limits?  When have Catholics been told from a priest giving a sermon that
we are no longer capable of believing any interior voice of conscience, even when
all the factors going into that conscience are the infallible dogmas of the Church
and her first 20 ecuмenical councils, and Sacred Scripture?  When have we been
told that the official record of what the Magisterium (Latin neuter noun for the
teaching office of the Church, not a person but a thing) has always taught can
be ignored, and that we must only pay attention to the words of someone who
is actually outside the current jurisdictional office of Church teaching, even while
they talk as if they are one and the same as the current jurisdictional office of
the Church teaching?

Please note, not one mention of Scripture or any quote of the Bible or of any
saint in the history of the Church was spoken by Fr. Rostand in this pathetic and
monotonous diatribe.  Not even Martin Luther did that!

In fact, our Bible contains words to warn us AGAINST believing what Fr. Rostand
is heard here saying in this abominable sermon, given while standing in the
holy place
, as he leaves Sacred Tradition in desolation before our ears, for those
who have ears to hear!!


Where does this presumption of authority come from?  

It seems to me that the Menzingen-denizens have become so thoroughly steeped
in an unholy lust for jurisdiction that they are coming apart at the seams.  They
are under the false impression that by making a 'deal' with apostate Rome that
they will gain this holy grail of jurisdiction.  Boy, are they in for a shocker.

Even if Rome promises them jurisdiction if they only will make a deal, this
promise of jurisdiction will ABSOLUTELY never be in writing, but only in the
hushed mutterings of the spoken word from the apostate Romans, speaking
their "Romanita," then, after the 'deal' has become a 'done deal,' Rome
will tell them that they have to do something more before they get at long
last their coveted jurisdiction.  It will always be the carrot on the stick, and no
matter what they do, Rome will never give them their promised jurisdiction.  

They will always be subject to the jurisdiction of the local ordinary in all things
of consequence.  For the SSPX to have jurisdiction is a MIRAGE, a CHIMERA,
FALSE DREAM, and will soon turn into a NIGHTMARE, and if you think the
monster of Menzingen is ugly now
, just wait for how ugly it will become once
its insatiable appetite for jurisdiction is STARVED.




Anyone who can get up in the morning and crave to go to Mass and hear
a sermon like this THING has got to have rocks in his head.  


Unbelieveable.  



And yes, sspxbvm, you were correct, the mp3 skip every 5 to 7 seconds
would normally have driven me crazy, that would apply to a sermon that has
CONTENT but this one?  NO PROBLEM, in fact the skips only ACCENTUATE how
vapid and useless are the words of this pathetic priest, who has become a
DISGRACE to his order and profession.



Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 03, 2012, 08:30:28 AM
Quote from: KyrieEleison
This mentality coming out of the sspx may be cultish when describing the complacency of the faithful who adhere to every stupid thing they are told from people like Fellay and Rostand but to call the leadership cultish is being to nice.  They act in a calculated slithering way that has every trait of communist tactics written all over it.  The people in the pews are the useful idiots but the ones running the show from menzingen have taken up the character of those they want to come under, they take up the characteristics of the enemies of Christ.

The sspx needs one big exorcism.   It's mentally and spiritually sick from the top and it's working its way down.  In the case of the Superior, it's easy to see how he lost it, it happens when someone fights the known Truth - with a capitol T.  In his case, he fights the Truth in order to get his way.

Lord, let MY will be done, that's what his plan has been all along.




Excellent points, KE, excellent.

The SSPX needs exorcism.

The errors of Russia have been imported wholesale into the highest offices of the
Society, the erstwhile beloved patrimony of Archbishop Lefebvre, sad to say.

This is a sad day indeed.

They have Most Conspicuously Taken Up the Character of those under whom
they want to become subject in all things — covetous of their jurisdiction with
an unholy spirit, an unclean spirit of DEADLY VICE, like an apocalyptic MONSTER.

This ROT, that, like a FISH has started from the HEAD, has started to spread
down to the district superiors and from there to the parish priests and from
there to the lay faithful in the pews, is a fulfillment of Scripture, for when one
is given to a HARD HEART, and persists in this abominable pride saying LORD,
LET MY WILL BE DONE, God 'blesses' their obstinacy with a CURSE, and
heardens their heart.  For when it is GOD Who does the hardening, the heart
turns totally against the truth, and the Romans One Curse comes into play:


22 For professing themselves wise, they became foolish...
24 Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart...
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served
the creature, rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever.  Amen.
26 For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections...
27 ...receiving in themselves the recompense that was due to their error.
28 And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered
them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient:
29 Being filled with all iniquity ... malice ... avarice, wickedness, full of envy,
contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers,
30 Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of
evil things, disobedient to parents (and Founding Fathers)
31 Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy,
32 Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they
who do such things are worthy of death; and not only they that do them,
but they also who consent to them that do them.
cap. ii. 1 Wherefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that
judgest.  For wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself.
For thou dost the same things that thou judgest.
2 For we know that the judgment of God is, according to truth, against
them that do such things...



Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 03, 2012, 09:13:13 AM

If anyone wants to complain about the words I left OUT of

Saint Paul's Epistle to the Romans cap. i.,  

let him make a list of those words that I left out,

and see for himself what the Apostle points to as

the end and consequence whereto the Society is currently headed,

and in cap. ii., the means by which the Society might still

have a chance to redeem itself now, and before it is finally too late,

et in saecula saeculorum.  Amen.




Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: TinkerBell on December 03, 2012, 09:20:50 AM
I hope that those who are so critical of the SSPX priests and its leadership are not hypocrites who attend their Masses and receive their sacraments.  In other words, do you use the priests you so disdain as sacramental vending machines while anonymously trashing them in a public forum?  
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Telesphorus on December 03, 2012, 09:22:05 AM
Catholics don't attend mass depending on whether or not they like or approve of their priest.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: bowler on December 03, 2012, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: TinkerBell
I hope that those who are so critical of the SSPX priests and its leadership are not hypocrites who attend their Masses and receive their sacraments.  In other words, do you use the priests you so disdain as sacramental vending machines while anonymously trashing them in a public forum?  


Please explain yourself.

We started the trad community as an independent chapel and paid for the building and all of its contents, and built up the community, and even later paid for the SSPX priests in the seminary. Then we turned over EVERYTHING we owned in exchange for a priest flying in once a week.

If we are hypocrites, then the neo-SSPX are thieves. An inheritor that throws out his benefactor, is the lowest form of creature, not worthy to even be called a human being.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Columba on December 03, 2012, 10:22:23 AM
Quote from: bowler
Quote from: TinkerBell
I hope that those who are so critical of the SSPX priests and its leadership are not hypocrites who attend their Masses and receive their sacraments.  In other words, do you use the priests you so disdain as sacramental vending machines while anonymously trashing them in a public forum?  


Please explain yourself.

We started the trad community as an independent chapel and paid for the building and all of its contents, and built up the community, and even later paid for the SSPX priests in the seminary. Then we turned over EVERYTHING we owned in exchange for a priest flying in once a week.

If we are hypocrites, then the neo-SSPX are thieves. An inheritor that throws out his benefactor, is the lowest form of creature, not worthy to even be called a human being.

It does not matter. According to +Rostand, you assist at a Bishop Fellay church and receive sacraments from a Bishop Fellay priest.

+Fellay has the "grace of state" to redefine morality. He has so determined that if you are not on board for whatever changes he may introduce and you continue to assist at one of his churches, you are guilty of sin.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 11:07:29 AM
Bowler,

Providing for the material means of the church is one of the 5 precepts which are required of all Catholics   How much you provide is up to you.  But it is required of you as a Catholic, continously.  It's not a one off event.  As long as you are a Catholic you are duty bound to provide for the material needs of the Church.  The SSPX is part of the Church.  

Fr. Rostand spoke the truth in his sermon.  The Prostestant mentality is rampant throughout the world.  Traditional Catholics, being part of the world, are not exempt.  This spirit of "independence" is Modernist, it is American, it is Prostestant.  St. Benedict spoke of it in his rule.  However, by the replies on this thread, it would seem many here would claim St. Benedict was a "cult leader."  This rule is not just for monks.  Layman follow this rule as well, they are known as oblates.  Let me site a few chapters:

Quote
Chapter 5 Obedience:
The first step of humility is unhesitating obedience, which comes naturally to those who cherish Christ above all. Because of the holy service they have professed, or because of dread of hell and for the glory of everlasting life, they carry out the superior's order as promptly as if the command came from God himself...Such people as these immediately put aside their own concerns, abandon their own will, and lay down whatever they have in hand, leaving it unfinished. With the ready step of obedience, they follow the voice of authority in their actions...It is love that impels them to pursue everlasting life; therefore, they are eager to take the narrow road of which the Lord says: Narrow is the road that leads to life (Matt 7:14). They no longer live by their own judgment, giving in to their whims and appetites; rather they walk according to another's decisions and directions, choosing to live in monasteries and to have an abbot over them. Men of this resolve unquestionably conform to the saying of the Lord: I have come not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me (John 6:38).
 
This very obedience, however, will be acceptable to God and agreeable to men only if compliance with what is commanded is not cringing or sluggish or half-hearted, but free from any grumbling or any reaction of unwillingness. For the obedience shown to superiors is given to God, as he himself said: Whoever listens to you, listens to me (Luke 10:16). Furthermore, the disciples' obedience must be given gladly, for God loves a cheerful giver (II Cor 9: 7). If a disciple obeys grudgingly and grumbles, not only aloud but also in his heart, then, even though he carries out the order, his action will not be accepted with favor by God, who sees that he is grumbling in his heart. He will have no reward for service of this kind; on the contrary, he will incur punishment for grumbling, unless he changes for the better and makes amends.


Quote
Chapter 6 Restraint of Speech:
Let us follow the Prophet's counsel: I said, I have resolved to keep watch over my ways that I may never sin with my tongue. I was silent and was humbled, and I refrained even from good words (Ps 38[39]:2-3). Here the Prophet indicates that there are times when good words are to be left unsaid out of esteem for silence. For all the more reason, then, should evil speech be curbed so that punishment for sin may be avoided. Indeed, so important is silence that permission to speak should seldom be granted even to mature disciples, no matter how good or holy or constructive their talk, because it is written: In a flood of words you will not avoid sin (Prov 10:19); and elsewhere, The tongue holds the key to life and death (Prov 18:21). Speaking and teaching are the master's task; the disciple is to be silent and listen.
Therefore, any requests to a superior should be made with all humility and respectful submission. We absolutely condemn in all places any vulgarity and gossip and talk leading to laughter, and we do not permit a disciple to engage in words of that kind.


Quote
Chapter 7 Humility
...
The first step of humility, then, is that a man keeps the fear of God always before his eyes (Ps 35[36]:2) and never forgets it. ... While he guards himself at every moment from sins and vices of thought or tongue, of hand or foot, of self-will or bodily desire, let him recall that he is always seen by God in heaven, that his actions everywhere are in God's sight and are reported by angels at every hour.
 
The Prophet indicates this to us when he shows that our thoughts are always present to God, saying: God searches hearts and minds (Ps 7:10); again he says: The Lord knows the thoughts of men (Ps 93[94]:11); likewise, From afar you know my thoughts (Ps 138[139]:3); and, The thought of man shall give you praise (Ps 75[76]:11). That he may take care to avoid sinful thoughts, the virtuous brother must always say to himself: I shall be blameless in his sight if I guard myself from my own wickedness (Ps 17[18]:24).
 
Truly, we are forbidden to do our own will, for Scripture tells us: Turn away from your desires (Sir 18:30). And in the Prayer too we ask God that his will be done done in us (Matt 6:10). We are rightly taught not to do our own will, since we dread what Scripture says: There are ways which men call right that in the end plunge into the depths of hell (Prov 16:25). Moreover, we fear what is said of those who ignore this: They are corrupt and have become depraved in their desires (Ps 13[14]:1).
...
Accordingly, if the eyes of the Lord are watching the good and the wicked (Prov 15:3), if at all times the Lord looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see whether any understand and seek God (Ps 13[14]:2); and if every day the angels assigned to us report our deeds to the Lord day and night, then, brothers, we must be vigilant every hour or, as the Prophet says in the psalm, God may observe us falling at some time into evil and so made worthless (Ps 13[14]:3). After sparing us for a while because he is a loving father who waits for us to improve, he may tell us later, This you did, and I said nothing (Ps 49[50]:21).

We should all keep these things and many more in mind but at the forefront of our minds we should say to ourselves, "Were I to die at this very moment would I die in the state of grace?"  If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?  Many traditional examinations of consciences list the deriding of a priest, religious, or bishop as a sin against the 4th commandant.  It is also most assuredly a sacrilege because these men are consecrated to God.  

Please, everyone, let us all keep death in mind so that we can keep from sinning, in word, thought or deed.  
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: hollingsworth on December 03, 2012, 11:13:41 AM
Quote
"Protestants" from the "Church of +Fellay"



Although, in fairness to Fr. Rostand, he did not point directly to those of us who have either left the Society or are highly critical of the that Fellay-run organization.  But all his talk about "Protestants" doesn't make it very difficult to make the connection between us and "Protestants."  Obviously, we are the ones whom he is talking about.  It is true, as the quote above indicates:  We are protestants (small case) from the "Church of +Fellay."  We were also "Protestants" while in the Society.  We were "Protestants," protesting the  2nd Vatican Council and the post-Conciliar church.  Now some of us are "Protestants," protesting both the neo-SSPX and the post-Conciliar church.  I think +Rostand better drop the word "Protestant" from his lexicon during future lectures.  Because, if he's stupid enough to have Q & As following such lectures in the future, there are enough of us out here who can probably have him for breakfast.  I think a number of us can make the case that he too is a "Protestant" by his own latent definition of the term.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Quo Vadis Petre on December 03, 2012, 11:21:56 AM
Cronier, you show yourself to be an accordista. So much for being "neutral" on this issue. How ironic how Fr. Rostand keeps on talking about obedience, when he and +Fellay disobey Pope Benedict. Trusting our priests and bishops. The laity did that before, during, and after Vatican II. Look where that led us!
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Columba on December 03, 2012, 11:31:06 AM
Quote from: Quo Vadis Petre
Cronier, you show yourself to be an accordista. So much for being "neutral" on this issue. How ironic how Fr. Rostand keeps on talking about obedience, when he and +Fellay disobey Pope Benedict. Trusting our priests and bishops. The laity did that before, during, and after Vatican II. Look where that led us!

Right. The faithful cannot afford to follow leaders that show signs of deviating from Tradition, as Menzingen has done. Menzingen's impatience and intolerance toward sincere questions from the faithful demonstrates a lack of charity and indicates a guilty conscience.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 12:08:08 PM
No matter what crisis the Church finds herself in, no Catholic is at liberty to abandon the law of charity, ever.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: AntiFellayism on December 03, 2012, 12:19:43 PM
Quote from: Cronier
No matter what crisis the Church finds herself in, no Catholic is at liberty to abandon the law of charity, ever.


You're right but just keep in mind though that Charity is based on Truth not on the compromise of it.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 12:41:00 PM
Quote from: AntiFellayism
Quote from: Cronier
No matter what crisis the Church finds herself in, no Catholic is at liberty to abandon the law of charity, ever.


You're right but just keep in mind though that Charity is based on Truth not on the compromise of it.


Charity and Truth are Our Lord Himself.  He is the measure with with which we are to measure all things, not our own independent wills, not our pride, not our ego.  Christ.  
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: AntiFellayism on December 03, 2012, 12:45:50 PM
Quote from: Cronier
Bowler,

Providing for the material means of the church is one of the 5 precepts which are required of all Catholics   How much you provide is up to you.  But it is required of you as a Catholic, continously.  It's not a one off event.  As long as you are a Catholic you are duty bound to provide for the material needs of the Church.  The SSPX is part of the Church.  

Fr. Rostand spoke the truth in his sermon.  The Prostestant mentality is rampant throughout the world.  Traditional Catholics, being part of the world, are not exempt.  This spirit of "independence" is Modernist, it is American, it is Prostestant.  St. Benedict spoke of it in his rule.  However, by the replies on this thread, it would seem many here would claim St. Benedict was a "cult leader."  This rule is not just for monks.  Layman follow this rule as well, they are known as oblates.  Let me site a few chapters:

Quote
Chapter 5 Obedience:
The first step of humility is unhesitating obedience, which comes naturally to those who cherish Christ above all. Because of the holy service they have professed, or because of dread of hell and for the glory of everlasting life, they carry out the superior's order as promptly as if the command came from God himself...Such people as these immediately put aside their own concerns, abandon their own will, and lay down whatever they have in hand, leaving it unfinished. With the ready step of obedience, they follow the voice of authority in their actions...It is love that impels them to pursue everlasting life; therefore, they are eager to take the narrow road of which the Lord says: Narrow is the road that leads to life (Matt 7:14). They no longer live by their own judgment, giving in to their whims and appetites; rather they walk according to another's decisions and directions, choosing to live in monasteries and to have an abbot over them. Men of this resolve unquestionably conform to the saying of the Lord: I have come not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me (John 6:38).
 
This very obedience, however, will be acceptable to God and agreeable to men only if compliance with what is commanded is not cringing or sluggish or half-hearted, but free from any grumbling or any reaction of unwillingness. For the obedience shown to superiors is given to God, as he himself said: Whoever listens to you, listens to me (Luke 10:16). Furthermore, the disciples' obedience must be given gladly, for God loves a cheerful giver (II Cor 9: 7). If a disciple obeys grudgingly and grumbles, not only aloud but also in his heart, then, even though he carries out the order, his action will not be accepted with favor by God, who sees that he is grumbling in his heart. He will have no reward for service of this kind; on the contrary, he will incur punishment for grumbling, unless he changes for the better and makes amends.


Quote
Chapter 6 Restraint of Speech:
Let us follow the Prophet's counsel: I said, I have resolved to keep watch over my ways that I may never sin with my tongue. I was silent and was humbled, and I refrained even from good words (Ps 38[39]:2-3). Here the Prophet indicates that there are times when good words are to be left unsaid out of esteem for silence. For all the more reason, then, should evil speech be curbed so that punishment for sin may be avoided. Indeed, so important is silence that permission to speak should seldom be granted even to mature disciples, no matter how good or holy or constructive their talk, because it is written: In a flood of words you will not avoid sin (Prov 10:19); and elsewhere, The tongue holds the key to life and death (Prov 18:21). Speaking and teaching are the master's task; the disciple is to be silent and listen.
Therefore, any requests to a superior should be made with all humility and respectful submission. We absolutely condemn in all places any vulgarity and gossip and talk leading to laughter, and we do not permit a disciple to engage in words of that kind.


Quote
Chapter 7 Humility
...
The first step of humility, then, is that a man keeps the fear of God always before his eyes (Ps 35[36]:2) and never forgets it. ... While he guards himself at every moment from sins and vices of thought or tongue, of hand or foot, of self-will or bodily desire, let him recall that he is always seen by God in heaven, that his actions everywhere are in God's sight and are reported by angels at every hour.
 
The Prophet indicates this to us when he shows that our thoughts are always present to God, saying: God searches hearts and minds (Ps 7:10); again he says: The Lord knows the thoughts of men (Ps 93[94]:11); likewise, From afar you know my thoughts (Ps 138[139]:3); and, The thought of man shall give you praise (Ps 75[76]:11). That he may take care to avoid sinful thoughts, the virtuous brother must always say to himself: I shall be blameless in his sight if I guard myself from my own wickedness (Ps 17[18]:24).
 
Truly, we are forbidden to do our own will, for Scripture tells us: Turn away from your desires (Sir 18:30). And in the Prayer too we ask God that his will be done done in us (Matt 6:10). We are rightly taught not to do our own will, since we dread what Scripture says: There are ways which men call right that in the end plunge into the depths of hell (Prov 16:25). Moreover, we fear what is said of those who ignore this: They are corrupt and have become depraved in their desires (Ps 13[14]:1).
...
Accordingly, if the eyes of the Lord are watching the good and the wicked (Prov 15:3), if at all times the Lord looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see whether any understand and seek God (Ps 13[14]:2); and if every day the angels assigned to us report our deeds to the Lord day and night, then, brothers, we must be vigilant every hour or, as the Prophet says in the psalm, God may observe us falling at some time into evil and so made worthless (Ps 13[14]:3). After sparing us for a while because he is a loving father who waits for us to improve, he may tell us later, This you did, and I said nothing (Ps 49[50]:21).

We should all keep these things and many more in mind but at the forefront of our minds we should say to ourselves, "Were I to die at this very moment would I die in the state of grace?"  If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?  Many traditional examinations of consciences list the deriding of a priest, religious, or bishop as a sin against the 4th commandant.  It is also most assuredly a sacrilege because these men are consecrated to God.  

Please, everyone, let us all keep death in mind so that we can keep from sinning, in word, thought or deed.  


It is easy to quote the Saints on obedience, prudence, humility, hope, etc. --the Neo-SSPX does a great job at it; what is not so easy is to quote any saint putting emphasis on these virtues over the Faith... that's the challenge.

On the other hand I could quote you what I've quoted before here:

"The declared enemies of God and of the Church should be defamed as much as possible, provided we don't lack the truth it is a charitable act to shout: 'Here's the wolf!' Whether he is in the flock or anywhere to be found." (St. Francis de Sales, Bishop and Doctor of the Church)

"If, however, through works they profaned the faith and don't hide themselves
covered with shame under the earth, why they get irritated against
us, who condemn with words that what they manifest with
actions? "(St. John Chrysostom)

"If the propagation and the necessity of combating evil require the employment of terms somewhat harsh against error and its supporters, this usage is certainly not against charity."

"In the writings of the great athletes of Christianity the usage of irony, imprecation, execration and of the most crushing epithets is continual."

"Popular propagation and apologetics cannot preserve elegant and constrained academic forms. In order to convince the people we must speak to their heart and their imagination which can only be touched by ardent , brilliant, and impassioned language. To be impassioned is not to be reprehensible, when our heat is the holy ardor of truth."

"It is all well enough to make war on abstract doctrines," some may say, "but in combating error, be it ever so evident, is it so proper to make an attack upon the persons of those who uphold it?" We reply that very often it is, and not only proper but at times even indispensable and meritorious before God and men."

"The accusation of indulging in personalities is not spared to Catholic apologists, and when Liberals and those tainted with Liberalism have hurled it at our heads they imagine that we are overwhelmed by the charge. But they deceive themselves. We are not so easily thrust in the back ground. We have reason and substantial reason on our side. In order to combat and discredit false ideas, we must inspire contempt and horror in the hearts of the multitude for those who seek to seduce and debauch them. A disease is inseparable from the persons of the diseased."

"(...) impartiality is not permissible when it is distorted to the offense of truth, whose rights are imprescriptible."

"Therefore to offend our neighbor for the love of God is a true act of charity. Not to offend our neighbor for the love of God is a sin."

"It is the archer and the gunner to whom we should give our first attention; save for them the fire would not be murderous."

"It is thus lawful, in certain cases, to expose the infamy of a Liberal opponent, to bring his habits into contempt, and drag his name in the mire. Yes, this is permissible, permissible in prose, in verse, in caricature, in a serious vein or in badinage, by every means and method within reach. The only restriction is not to employ a lie in the service of justice. This never."

"Whence do the Liberals derive their power to impose upon us the new obligation of fighting errors only in the abstract and of lavishing smiles and flattery upon them?" (Fr. Felix Sarda Y Salvany)


Let's not be carried away in thinking the saints were men walking with daisies over their ears succuмbing to all sorts of enemies of our Holy Catholic Faith in the name of a number of false virtues!




Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 12:52:59 PM
My point still stands as before:

At the forefront of our minds we should say to ourselves, "Were I to die at this very moment would I die in the state of grace?"  If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?  Many traditional examinations of consciences list the deriding of a priest, religious, or bishop as a sin against the 4th commandant.  It is also most assuredly a sacrilege because these men are consecrated to God.  

Please, everyone, let us all keep death in mind so that we can keep from sinning, in word, thought or deed.  

Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Quo Vadis Petre on December 03, 2012, 12:56:41 PM
You should use those words against those pro-+Fellay supporters and +Fellay himself who regularly denigrate +Williamson ("like uranium," "has Alzheimer's disease," mentally not there, etc.) and the SSPX-resistance priests.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: John Grace on December 03, 2012, 12:58:11 PM
Quote from: Cronier
My point still stands as before:

At the forefront of our minds we should say to ourselves, "Were I to die at this very moment would I die in the state of grace?"  If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?  Many traditional examinations of consciences list the deriding of a priest, religious, or bishop as a sin against the 4th commandant.  It is also most assuredly a sacrilege because these men are consecrated to God.  

Please, everyone, let us all keep death in mind so that we can keep from sinning, in word, thought or deed.  



Are you a priest of the SSPX?
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 01:00:41 PM
Quote from: Quo Vadis Petre
You should use those words against those pro-+Fellay supporters and +Fellay himself who regularly denigrate +Williamson ("like uranium," "has Alzheimer's disease," mentally not there, etc.) and the SSPX-resistance priests.


They will indeed have to answer for their words and their thoughts.  No doubt about it.  They are not exempt.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 01:01:29 PM
Quote from: John Grace
Quote from: Cronier
My point still stands as before:

At the forefront of our minds we should say to ourselves, "Were I to die at this very moment would I die in the state of grace?"  If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?  Many traditional examinations of consciences list the deriding of a priest, religious, or bishop as a sin against the 4th commandant.  It is also most assuredly a sacrilege because these men are consecrated to God.  

Please, everyone, let us all keep death in mind so that we can keep from sinning, in word, thought or deed.  



Are you a priest of the SSPX?

No.  I am a woman.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Columba on December 03, 2012, 01:01:47 PM
Quote from: Cronier
If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?

Is it ill-will to falsely describe resistance to error as lack of charity?
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: John Grace on December 03, 2012, 01:05:46 PM
Quote from: Cronier
Quote from: John Grace
Quote from: Cronier
My point still stands as before:

At the forefront of our minds we should say to ourselves, "Were I to die at this very moment would I die in the state of grace?"  If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?  Many traditional examinations of consciences list the deriding of a priest, religious, or bishop as a sin against the 4th commandant.  It is also most assuredly a sacrilege because these men are consecrated to God.  

Please, everyone, let us all keep death in mind so that we can keep from sinning, in word, thought or deed.  



Are you a priest of the SSPX?

No.  I am a woman.


A heavy bomber. Good. Whilst the women folk should be aware of the ongoing matters within the SSPX, they should not get involved in the fist fight.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 01:06:17 PM
Quote from: Columba
Quote from: Cronier
If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?

Is it ill-will to falsely describe resistance to error as lack of charity?


Ill-will is defined as hostility, enmity, antagonism towards another person.  Some of the attitudes displayed on this forum fit this definition, whether that be towards the SSPX, it's priests, bishops, or fellow Catholics.  

Antifellayism's quote of St. John Chrysostom above made think of his liturgy to which I am always reminded of the humble prayer that is said before receiving communion (The Holy Mysteries as they say in the East):

Quote
I believe and confess, Lord, that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the living God, who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the first. I also believe that this is truly Your pure Body and that this is truly Your precious Blood. Therefore, I pray to You, have mercy upon me, and forgive my transgressions, voluntary and involuntary, in word and deed, known and unknown. And make me worthy without condemnation to partake of Your pure Mysteries for the forgiveness of sins and for life eternal. Amen.

How shall I, who am unworthy, enter into the splendor of Your saints? If I dare to enter into the bridal chamber, my clothing will accuse me, since it is not a wedding garment; and being bound up, I shall be cast out by the angels. In Your love, Lord, cleanse my soul and save me.

Loving Master, Lord Jesus Christ, my God, let not these holy Gifts be to my condemnation because of my unworthiness, but for the cleansing and sanctification of soul and body and the pledge of the future life and kingdom. It is good for me to cling to God and to place in Him the hope of my salvation.
Receive me today, Son of God, as a partaker of Your mystical Supper. I will not reveal Your mystery to Your adversaries. Nor will I give You a kiss as did Judas. But as the thief I confess to You: Lord, remember me in Your kingdom.

Beautiful.  Such humility we are all called to have....East and West.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: John Grace on December 03, 2012, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: Cronier
Quote from: Columba
Quote from: Cronier
If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?

Is it ill-will to falsely describe resistance to error as lack of charity?


Ill-will is defined as hostility, enmity, antagonism towards another person.  Some of the attitudes displayed on this forum fit this definition, whether that be towards the SSPX, it's priests, bishops, or fellow Catholics.  


Agreed. I was called a 'wacko' and on Catholic Truth (Scotland) certain folk are writing terrible things about Bishop Williamson and Fr Morgan.

'Athanasius' alleges he was assaulted by Fr Morgan in a sacristy.

Some of those folk in Scotland allege names were added to a petition letter without consent of people. The reality is concerned laity wrote a valid letter to Bishop Fellay.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Incredulous on December 03, 2012, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: TinkerBell
I hope that those who are so critical of the SSPX priests and its leadership are not hypocrites who attend their Masses and receive their sacraments.  In other words, do you use the priests you so disdain as sacramental vending machines while anonymously trashing them in a public forum?  



Tinkerbell...


(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfaWRH4IlFxnIn6_8fs0nDVXFX5lARQ_nuVuI7FAO329i9U9Rg)


Please shut-up and go put some clothes on.

Your name represents a bad Disney icon, that of an improperly dressed young woman, who has scandalized children for decades.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: bowler on December 03, 2012, 01:12:58 PM
Quote from: Cronier
My point still stands as before:

At the forefront of our minds we should say to ourselves, "Were I to die at this very moment would I die in the state of grace?"  If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?  Many traditional examinations of consciences list the deriding of a priest, religious, or bishop as a sin against the 4th commandant.  It is also most assuredly a sacrilege because these men are consecrated to God.  

Please, everyone, let us all keep death in mind so that we can keep from sinning, in word, thought or deed.  



"In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin". (Ecclesiasticus 7:40).

What you wrote above is true, and this is something we have to be careful about, since we are to pray even for our enemies. This is why I keep saying that it matters not who wrote something, but what he wrote, the content, the errors, of what is written.

Your point is understood, now where exactly is anyone harboring ill will to anyone?
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 01:20:48 PM
The post right about yours from Incredulous is less than Catholic.  The post from Kyrie Elesion, Neil Obstat on this thread are very hostile (ill-will) and antagnoistic.  Your own posts calling the SSPX "thieves" shows hostility.  

I am willing to give many here the benefit of the doubt.  Some of you have allowed your passions to rule you.  It's easy to do.  But once we become aware of this error (and it is indeed an error) we are obliged to correct it.  
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: John Grace on December 03, 2012, 01:21:39 PM
Quote from: Incredulous
Quote from: TinkerBell
I hope that those who are so critical of the SSPX priests and its leadership are not hypocrites who attend their Masses and receive their sacraments.  In other words, do you use the priests you so disdain as sacramental vending machines while anonymously trashing them in a public forum?  



Tinkerbell...


(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfaWRH4IlFxnIn6_8fs0nDVXFX5lARQ_nuVuI7FAO329i9U9Rg)


Please shut-up and go put some clothes on.

Your name represents a bad Disney icon, that of an improperly dressed young woman, who has scandalized children for decades.


Whilst I agree with you telling 'Tinkerbell' to cover up, all I will do for the other 'Tinkerbell' is pray for her. She obviously believes Fr Rostand. God may give her the grace to see the light.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: John Grace on December 03, 2012, 01:26:00 PM
Cronier,

Out of interest can we get your opinion on 'Krahgate' and other happenings in the SSPX before making further statements. Not everybody is on the same page but interesting to see where you are coming from?

What are your thoughts on the Zionist hand in the 'pious union'? The expulsion of the priest chosen personally by Archbishop Lefebvre?
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: bowler on December 03, 2012, 01:29:48 PM
Quote from: bowler
Quote from: TinkerBell
I hope that those who are so critical of the SSPX priests and its leadership are not hypocrites who attend their Masses and receive their sacraments.  In other words, do you use the priests you so disdain as sacramental vending machines while anonymously trashing them in a public forum?  


Please explain yourself.

We started the trad community as an independent chapel and paid for the building and all of its contents, and built up the community, and even later paid for the SSPX priests in the seminary. Then we turned over EVERYTHING we owned in exchange for a priest flying in once a week.

If we are hypocrites, then the neo-SSPX are thieves. An inheritor that throws out his benefactor, is the lowest form of creature, not worthy to even be called a human being.


Quote from: Cronier
Bowler,
Providing for the material means of the church is one of the 5 precepts which are required of all Catholics   How much you provide is up to you.  But it is required of you as a Catholic, continously.  It's not a one off event.  As long as you are a Catholic you are duty bound to provide for the material needs of the Church.  The SSPX is part of the Church.  


The SSPX is a unique situation, not comparable with any other diocene church, for they were given the properties, contents, and parishioners, EVERYTHING, in exchange for a priest flying in once a week. They built practically nothing. Now, they are throwing out the very people who gave them everything, just for disagreeing with them. That is called lack of charity, and theft. They did not build the chapels, they were given to them, and now they are throwing out the very people who built them.

My local diocene church was built by the diocese with money from who knows where, way back when. All I have to do is show up for mass and put money in the basket and go home.

Your comment might apply to the new SSPXers that showed up one day after everything was in place, and now just put money in the basket.



 
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 01:33:56 PM
Quote from: John Grace
Cronier,

Out of interest can we get your opinion on 'Krahgate' and other happenings in the SSPX before making further statements. Not everybody is on the same page but interesting to see where you are coming from?

What are your thoughts on the Zionist hand in the 'pious union'? The expulsion of the priest chosen personally by Archbishop Lefebvre?


I don't keep up with that.  That has absolutely no bearing on my day to day Catholic life at all.  I read the interview with Mr. Krah in the Remnant and I have no reason to doubt him.  I'm interested in battling myself and my own "demons" not those of Mr. Krah.  I already quoted Archbishop Lefebvre on another thread how he felt any apostolate should be run like a secular business and that a "fruitful apostolate" should take advantage of all benefits that Providence sends their way.  
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Quo Vadis Petre on December 03, 2012, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: Cronier
Quote from: John Grace
Cronier,

Out of interest can we get your opinion on 'Krahgate' and other happenings in the SSPX before making further statements. Not everybody is on the same page but interesting to see where you are coming from?

What are your thoughts on the Zionist hand in the 'pious union'? The expulsion of the priest chosen personally by Archbishop Lefebvre?


I don't keep up with that.  That has absolutely no bearing on my day to day Catholic life at all.  I read the interview with Mr. Krah in the Remnant and I have no reason to doubt him.  I'm interested in battling myself and my own "demons" not those of Mr. Krah.  I already quoted Archbishop Lefebvre on another thread how he felt any apostolate should be run like a secular business and that a "fruitful apostolate" should take advantage of all benefits that Providence sends their way.  


So then you say +Williamson is lying then? Because that's what Krah says implicitly. He also defended the mini-skirt. And do you agree that the SSPX should not be anti-Semitic, as he defines it (i.e., anti-Judaic)? IF you say Krah has given no reason to doubt him, you in effect call those who doubt him "illwilled" implicitly, IMHO.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: John Grace on December 03, 2012, 01:38:35 PM
Quote
I read the interview with Mr. Krah in the Remnant and I have no reason to doubt him


Remarkable. That interview alone gave more reason to ask questions of Herr Krah. It raised further questions.

I note you didn't answer my other questions.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 01:46:50 PM
I don't keep up with it.   I have no idea what you are referring to in regards to Bishop Williamson.  I have only read this stuff in passing.  I've perused it.  Nothing more.  I certainly have no idea about any Zionist "hands" in the SSPX.  Why?  Because it is beyond my "duties of state."  Period. And to be blunt, none of this pays my rent at the end of the day.  I still have duties and work and keeping up with these two issues is not included in either of those (duties and work).  It's just that simple.  

Life is hard enough.  I don't go looking for extra drama.  Not to mention, once again, to do so would distract from my true goal, which is to get to heaven with a soul in the state of grace and in the process bring many to the Catholic Faith by my example.  I can't do that with a mind full of angst and a heart full of animosity.  That is my position, that is where I stand on the matter.  I hope that clears things up.    

Speaking of work, I must go and do just that...
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: bowler on December 03, 2012, 01:49:40 PM
Quote from: Cronier

Fr. Rostand spoke the truth in his sermon.  The Prostestant mentality is rampant throughout the world.  Traditional Catholics, being part of the world, are not exempt.  This spirit of "independence" is Modernist, it is American, it is Prostestant.    


Here's a repsonse for you from this thread:


Quote from: Telesphorus
"My opinion" - here's the problem Father Rostand - "your opinion" is not that of your ordinary.

So who are you to criticize Catholics for following their own opinions on the Crisis of the Church?

Are you claiming authority to decide who is Catholic and who is not?


Fr. Rostand and Menzingen are Protestants, independents, and everything that they accuse us of. Once they join Rome and are subject to their ordinary, then that speech will make sense.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Quo Vadis Petre on December 03, 2012, 02:05:37 PM
So in the end, because we're too busy, we just go and submit, even if it ultimately turns out very bad for our salvation? Seems like the excuse of the English under Henry VIII. Once he was gone, they realized too late that without the Pope they couldn't remain Catholic. They put too much faith in Henry VIII.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: miserere nobis on December 03, 2012, 02:10:54 PM
Quote from: John Grace
Cronier,

Out of interest can we get your opinion on 'Krahgate' and other happenings in the SSPX before making further statements. Not everybody is on the same page but interesting to see where you are coming from?

What are your thoughts on the Zionist hand in the 'pious union'? The expulsion of the priest chosen personally by Archbishop Lefebvre?


I remember reading the Remnant article and it lost me. To be honest, I didn't really know what to make of it. Can you provide a brief overview?
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Incredulous on December 03, 2012, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: Cronier
I don't keep up with it.   I have no idea what you are referring to in regards to Bishop Williamson.  I have only read this stuff in passing.  I've perused it.  Nothing more.  I certainly have no idea about any Zionist "hands" in the SSPX.  Why?  Because it is beyond my "duties of state."  Period. And to be blunt, none of this pays my rent at the end of the day.  I still have duties and work and keeping up with these two issues is not included in either of those (duties and work).  It's just that simple.  

Life is hard enough.  I don't go looking for extra drama.  Not to mention, once again, to do so would distract from my true goal, which is to get to heaven with a soul in the state of grace and in the process bring many to the Catholic Faith by my example.  I can't do that with a mind full of angst and a heart full of animosity.  That is my position, that is where I stand on the matter.  I hope that clears things up.    

Speaking of work, I must go and do just that...




Cronier,

Giving you every benefit of being of the doubt, of not being "informed", when you come back from work, take some time to read the following Catholic Info topic link:

Krahgate (Max Krah interview and analysis) (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Krahgate)

It came out about one month ago and has received over 13K hits.

Dr. Krah actually initiated it, with Mr. Siscoe's personal interview of him. It was published by the Remnant, Online and at first appeared to be a "PR piece" to put to rest the rumors surrounding Dr. Krah's presence in the top ranks of the SSPX.

Questions from the interview unfolded unexpectedly and dramatically. Ultimately, the reader learns that Dr. Krah is a zionist and that our beloved SSPX has been bought by a $100 million Jєωιѕн inheritance fund, of which Dr. Max is the trustee.

Real Trads don't go to Mossad military bases or claim Israel is a defender of Christianity.  I hope you understand this.

Read it and weep my friend, with the realization that we have been sold out.
I invite you to take action. Stop defending the SSPX-Judaized and join the SSPX-Resistance.












Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Columba on December 03, 2012, 02:22:22 PM
Quote from: Cronier
Quote from: Columba
Quote from: Cronier
If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?

Is it ill-will to falsely describe resistance to error as lack of charity?


Ill-will is defined as hostility, enmity, antagonism towards another person.  Some of the attitudes displayed on this forum fit this definition

Would you be so kind as to provide an example of such. If you cannot provide an example, would you be willing to withdraw your blanket statement.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: bowler on December 03, 2012, 02:32:11 PM
Quote from: Cronier
The post right about yours from Incredulous is less than Catholic.  The post from Kyrie Elesion, Neil Obstat on this thread are very hostile (ill-will) and antagnoistic.  Your own posts calling the SSPX "thieves" shows hostility.  

I am willing to give many here the benefit of the doubt.  Some of you have allowed your passions to rule you.  It's easy to do.  But once we become aware of this error (and it is indeed an error) we are obliged to correct it.  


What is hostility?

What would you call your son if he trew you out of your house after you gave it to him?
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 02:43:43 PM
Bowler,
You no longer attend the SSPX because you have been 'thrown out"?  You have been asked not to come back?  I'm trying to understand your point.  

Columba,
See my post to Bowler.  I cite examples.

Incredulous,
I've read the interview as I stated in a previous post.  As to the rest of the information regarding "Krahgate" as I said before I'm not interested in all the "drama."  It plays no role in my living the Catholic Life at all.  None.  As to the money issue, I post for you Archbishops Lefebvre's words:
Quote

Pastoral work requires organization comparable to that needed in commerce or industry or any other secular enterprise.  Why should we use less intelligence than worldly folk when we set about perfecting the organization of our ministry, using the resources which Providence has given us and seeking to augment them to the extent the same Providence sees fit?
Towards an Ever More Fruitful Apostolate May 1, 1952

I will continue to support the SSPX and receive the sacraments from them.  It would behoove us all to worry about the state our souls are in at any given moment.  Temptations are many and life is short.  
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Columba on December 03, 2012, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Cronier
Columba,
See my post to Bowler.  I cite examples.

Most of your so-called examples are very general. Are you unable to master the quote technology of this forum? The only specific example you cite, that of Cronier "calling the SSPX 'thieves'" is bogus because Cronier's comments were wholly contingent upon whether the SSPX were to engage in actual theft.

Unless you can provide genuine and specific examples, please withdraw your accusations of ill will. Otherwise, you yourself are guilty of baring false witness against your neighbor.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 03:12:37 PM
Columba,
You are confused.  I am Cronier.  I cited bowler, KyrieElesion and Neil Obstat.  Their posts fit the defintion of ill will because they all demonstrate hostility and antagonism.  Page 3 I believe.  
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: John Grace on December 03, 2012, 03:13:44 PM
I couldn't be bothered engaging further with that Menzingen shill any further.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Columba on December 03, 2012, 03:16:15 PM
Quote from: Cronier
Columba,
You are confused.  I am Cronier.  I cited bowler, KyrieElesion and Neil Obstat.  Their posts fit the defintion of ill will because they all demonstrate hostility and antagonism.  Page 3 I believe.  

This is what I meant to say:

Most of your so-called examples are very general. Are you unable to master the quote technology of this forum? The only specific example you cite, that of Bowler "calling the SSPX 'thieves'" is bogus because Bowler's comments were wholly contingent upon whether the SSPX were to engage in actual theft.

Unless you can provide genuine and specific examples, please withdraw your accusations of ill will. Otherwise, you yourself are guilty of baring false witness against your neighbor.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: MiserereMeiDeus on December 03, 2012, 03:24:15 PM
Quote from: Cronier
My point still stands as before:

At the forefront of our minds we should say to ourselves, "Were I to die at this very moment would I die in the state of grace?"  If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?  Many traditional examinations of consciences list the deriding of a priest, religious, or bishop as a sin against the 4th commandant.  It is also most assuredly a sacrilege because these men are consecrated to God.  

Please, everyone, let us all keep death in mind so that we can keep from sinning, in word, thought or deed.  



It disturbs me that you appear to be equating ill will with expressing alarm at Menzingen heading in a bad direction. You seem genuinely concerned that someone will die in a state of preferring to defend the Faith over preferring to practice false obedience.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 03:25:18 PM
KyrieEleison
Quote
This mentality coming out of the sspx may be cultish when describing the complacency of the faithful who adhere to every stupid thing they are told from people like Fellay and Rostand but to call the leadership cultish is being to nice. They act in a calculated slithering way that has every trait of communist tactics written all over it. The people in the pews are the useful idiots but the ones running the show from menzingen have taken up the character of those they want to come under, they take up the characteristics of the enemies of Christ.
The sspx needs one big exorcism. Its mentally and spiritually sick from the top and its working its way down. In the case of the superior its easy to see how he lost it, it happens when someone fights the known Truth-with a capitol T. In his case he fights the Truth in order to get his way.
Lord let MY will be done, that's what his plan has been all along.


Neil Obstat
Quote
warn us AGAINST believing what Fr. Rostand
is heard here saying in this abominable sermon, given while standing in the
holy place, as he leaves Sacred Tradition in desolation before our ears, for those
who have ears to hear!!


Quote
They have Most Conspicuously Taken Up the Character of those under whom they want to become subject in all things — covetous of their jurisdiction with an unholy spirit, an unclean spirit of DEADLY VICE, like an apocalyptic MONSTER.

This ROT, that, like a FISH has started from the HEAD, has started to spread
down to the district superiors and from there to the parish priests and from
there to the lay faithful in the pews, is a fulfillment of Scripture, for when one
is given to a HARD HEART, and persists in this abominable pride saying LORD,
LET MY WILL BE DONE, God 'blesses' their obstinacy with a CURSE, and
heardens their heart.  For when it is GOD Who does the hardening, the heart
turns totally against the truth, and the Romans One Curse comes into play:


I would say those quotes most certainly display hostility, antagonism, enmity.  And that is just from this thread....
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 03:26:27 PM
Quote from: MiserereMeiDeus
Quote from: Cronier
My point still stands as before:

At the forefront of our minds we should say to ourselves, "Were I to die at this very moment would I die in the state of grace?"  If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?  Many traditional examinations of consciences list the deriding of a priest, religious, or bishop as a sin against the 4th commandant.  It is also most assuredly a sacrilege because these men are consecrated to God.  

Please, everyone, let us all keep death in mind so that we can keep from sinning, in word, thought or deed.  



It disturbs me that you appear to be equating ill will with expressing alarm at Menzingen heading in a bad direction. You seem genuinely concerned that someone will die in a state of preferring to defend the Faith over preferring to practice false obedience.


Defending the faith is one thing... deriding a priest and/or bishop which is common place on this forum is quite another.  
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Columba on December 03, 2012, 03:26:48 PM
Quote from: John Grace
I couldn't be bothered engaging further with that Menzingen shill any further.

You may be correct, but the tactic of inventing moral prohibitions against the exposure facts one wishes to remain unnoticed is a pet peeve of mine. This is the main tactic used in the promotion of cultural marxism.

Cronier's behavior provides a convenient laboratory example of a tactic that has much wider and devastating application.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Columba on December 03, 2012, 03:46:44 PM
Quote from: Cronier
KyrieEleison
Quote
This mentality coming out of the sspx may be cultish when describing the complacency of the faithful who adhere to every stupid thing they are told from people like Fellay and Rostand but to call the leadership cultish is being to nice. They act in a calculated slithering way that has every trait of communist tactics written all over it. The people in the pews are the useful idiots but the ones running the show from menzingen have taken up the character of those they want to come under, they take up the characteristics of the enemies of Christ.
The sspx needs one big exorcism. Its mentally and spiritually sick from the top and its working its way down. In the case of the superior its easy to see how he lost it, it happens when someone fights the known Truth-with a capitol T. In his case he fights the Truth in order to get his way.
Lord let MY will be done, that's what his plan has been all along.


Neil Obstat
Quote
warn us AGAINST believing what Fr. Rostand
is heard here saying in this abominable sermon, given while standing in the
holy place, as he leaves Sacred Tradition in desolation before our ears, for those
who have ears to hear!!


Quote
They have Most Conspicuously Taken Up the Character of those under whom they want to become subject in all things — covetous of their jurisdiction with an unholy spirit, an unclean spirit of DEADLY VICE, like an apocalyptic MONSTER.

This ROT, that, like a FISH has started from the HEAD, has started to spread
down to the district superiors and from there to the parish priests and from
there to the lay faithful in the pews, is a fulfillment of Scripture, for when one
is given to a HARD HEART, and persists in this abominable pride saying LORD,
LET MY WILL BE DONE, God 'blesses' their obstinacy with a CURSE, and
heardens their heart.  For when it is GOD Who does the hardening, the heart
turns totally against the truth, and the Romans One Curse comes into play:


I would say those quotes most certainly display hostility, antagonism, enmity.  And that is just from this thread....

Thank you for providing quoted examples. Usually, those who make accusation against the resistance are loath to do so. While the statements are certainly harsh, they are at least arguably backed up by the undeniable facts regularly presented in this forum.

If these critics a) sincerely believe their targets to be guilty of subverting Catholic Tradition, b) have reasonable supporting evidence, and c) have not employed deceit or faulty logic, then the cited examples cannot be considered ill will. Harsh language used to describe harsh reality is not sin. Many of the saints have employed language far more violent than in the cited examples.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: SeanJohnson on December 03, 2012, 04:07:45 PM
I am a hard liner, as should be obvious by now.

I'm pretty sure nobody here considers me a softy, or sympathetic in the least with the current orientation in Menzingen.

But I do agree with Cronier that there is much gratuitous overly-harsh language employed against Menzingen/Kansas City.

When I make my criticisms, I generally do it by simply citing the contradictions, scandalous quotes, and generally leave my critiques free of adjectives.

I think the force of my observations is neither lessened nor enhanced by the use of ad hominems or adjectives.

If you think my arguments have carried a certain amount of force, despite being lacking in ad hominems and adjectives, then there should be no fear that good old Seraphim is softening (or encouraging others to soften) by simply pointing out that logical argumentation carries within itself its own force of conviction.

The flowery language which could surround it would only subtract and distract from the force of the logic itself.

At least, that is my 2 cents.

Pax

Seraphim
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Columba on December 03, 2012, 04:20:47 PM
Quote from: Seraphim
I am a hard liner, as should be obvious by now.

I'm pretty sure nobody here considers me a softy, or sympathetic in the least with the current orientation in Menzingen.

But I do agree with Cronier that there is much gratuitous overly-harsh language employed against Menzingen/Kansas City.

When I make my criticisms, I generally do it by simply citing the contradictions, scandalous quotes, and generally leave my critiques free of adjectives.

I think the force of my observations is neither lessened nor enhanced by the use of ad hominems or adjectives.

If you think my arguments have carried a certain amount of force, despite being lacking in ad hominems and adjectives, then there should be no fear that good old Seraphim is softening (or encouraging others to soften) by simply pointing out that logical argumentation carries within itself its own force of conviction.

The flowery language which could surround it would only subtract and distract from the force of the logic itself.

At least, that is my 2 cents.

Pax

Seraphim

You are changing the subject a bit here. Cronier did not complain of "gratuitous overly-harsh language." Rather he specifically alleged ill will. Is that what you are alleging?

I do not necessarily disagree with your post taken in isolation, but in the present context your post muddy's the water.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: SeanJohnson on December 03, 2012, 04:22:50 PM
Quote from: Columba
Quote from: Seraphim
I am a hard liner, as should be obvious by now.

I'm pretty sure nobody here considers me a softy, or sympathetic in the least with the current orientation in Menzingen.

But I do agree with Cronier that there is much gratuitous overly-harsh language employed against Menzingen/Kansas City.

When I make my criticisms, I generally do it by simply citing the contradictions, scandalous quotes, and generally leave my critiques free of adjectives.

I think the force of my observations is neither lessened nor enhanced by the use of ad hominems or adjectives.

If you think my arguments have carried a certain amount of force, despite being lacking in ad hominems and adjectives, then there should be no fear that good old Seraphim is softening (or encouraging others to soften) by simply pointing out that logical argumentation carries within itself its own force of conviction.

The flowery language which could surround it would only subtract and distract from the force of the logic itself.

At least, that is my 2 cents.

Pax

Seraphim

You are changing the subject a bit here. Cronier did not complain of "gratuitous overly-harsh language." Rather he specifically alleged ill will. Is that what you are alleging?

I do not necessarily disagree with your post taken in isolation, but in the present context your post muddy's the water.


Ah...

I did not read the complete dialogue.

I admit, that is a bit different subject.

Mea culpa.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: John Grace on December 03, 2012, 04:24:10 PM
To contrast for a moment with this found on Catholic Truth. Having met Fr Morgan a few times he is an excellent priest.A suggestion would be to send Fr Morgan messages of support.

http://www.catholictruthscotland.com/blog/2012/11/society-of-st-pius-x-sspx-news-latest/#respond
Klaire on December 3, 2012 at 8:37 pm
Quote
As one of the younger members of the Glasgow SSPX congregation I was shocked to hear the priest’s sermon. I believe a sermon is religious instructions according to the church, not one’s opinion. A priest should never under any circuмstance use his sermons to ‘point the finger’ at people especially who are sitting in the pews in front of him. I was taught through my catechism and my parents to always forgive and forget no matter how serious the matter is.


Klaire on December 3, 2012 at 9:13 pm
Quote
Petrus,

after his sermon on Sunday I don’t think I could feel comfortable in his company or ever go to him for advice etc. Its a shame really because as Catholics we should be able to look up to a priest as he represents Our Lord on earth. Shocking indeed!I was stunned.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: John Grace on December 03, 2012, 04:26:30 PM
Quote from: Columba
Quote from: Seraphim
I am a hard liner, as should be obvious by now.

I'm pretty sure nobody here considers me a softy, or sympathetic in the least with the current orientation in Menzingen.

But I do agree with Cronier that there is much gratuitous overly-harsh language employed against Menzingen/Kansas City.

When I make my criticisms, I generally do it by simply citing the contradictions, scandalous quotes, and generally leave my critiques free of adjectives.

I think the force of my observations is neither lessened nor enhanced by the use of ad hominems or adjectives.

If you think my arguments have carried a certain amount of force, despite being lacking in ad hominems and adjectives, then there should be no fear that good old Seraphim is softening (or encouraging others to soften) by simply pointing out that logical argumentation carries within itself its own force of conviction.

The flowery language which could surround it would only subtract and distract from the force of the logic itself.

At least, that is my 2 cents.

Pax

Seraphim

You are changing the subject a bit here. Cronier did not complain of "gratuitous overly-harsh language." Rather he specifically alleged ill will. Is that what you are alleging?

I do not necessarily disagree with your post taken in isolation, but in the present context your post muddy's the water.


A problem on an internet forum is establishing tone and intent.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: bowler on December 03, 2012, 04:28:43 PM
Quote from: bowler
Quote from: Cronier

Fr. Rostand spoke the truth in his sermon.  The Prostestant mentality is rampant throughout the world.  Traditional Catholics, being part of the world, are not exempt.  This spirit of "independence" is Modernist, it is American, it is Prostestant.    


Here's a repsonse for you from this thread:


Quote from: Telesphorus
"My opinion" - here's the problem Father Rostand - "your opinion" is not that of your ordinary.

So who are you to criticize Catholics for following their own opinions on the Crisis of the Church?

Are you claiming authority to decide who is Catholic and who is not?


Fr. Rostand and Menzingen are Protestants, independents, and everything that they accuse us of. Once they join Rome and are subject to their ordinary, then that speech will make sense.



From:
http://sspx.org/sspx_and_rome/is_the_sspx_heretical_1_11-30_2012.htm

Quote
During the doctrinal discussions, as explained by Bishop Fellay, the Roman theologians accused us of having a Protestant attitude because we followed our own judgment against the Church Magisterium,
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: ServusSpiritusSancti on December 03, 2012, 05:09:20 PM
Quote from: TinkerBell
I hope that those who are so critical of the SSPX priests and its leadership are not hypocrites who attend their Masses and receive their sacraments.  In other words, do you use the priests you so disdain as sacramental vending machines while anonymously trashing them in a public forum?  


I think you need to stop living in Disneyland.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: ServusSpiritusSancti on December 03, 2012, 05:21:28 PM
Quote from: Cronier
Fr. Rostand spoke the truth in his sermon.  The Prostestant mentality is rampant throughout the world.  Traditional Catholics, being part of the world, are not exempt.  This spirit of "independence" is Modernist, it is American, it is Prostestant.  St. Benedict spoke of it in his rule.  However, by the replies on this thread, it would seem many here would claim St. Benedict was a "cult leader."  This rule is not just for monks.  Layman follow this rule as well, they are known as oblates.


So anyone who is "indepentant" from the SSPX is a Protestant or has a Protestant mindset?

Regardless of what Bishop Fellay and Fr. Rostand may think, the SSPX isn't the Church. If one says that they will no longer support the Society because of this mess, and goes elsewhere - or in Bishop Williamson's case, sets out to start his own group - they haven't left the Church. They've left a priestly fraternity. If you think there's anything "Protestant" or "modernist" about that, well, there isn't.

Bishop Fellay should have expressed understanding towards the other three Bishops when they wrote to him earlier this year with concern over the negotiations with Rome. Instead he tried to be a big shot, painting himself as the one who was in control and no one else was going to influence his thinking. And interestingly enough, priests such as Fr. Rostand who sided with Bishop Fellay have had more say so throughout this than ANY of the other three Bishops, which is not how Archbishop Lefebvre would have wanted it.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: padrepio on December 03, 2012, 05:30:55 PM
Cronier stated,

Quote
I would say those quotes most certainly display hostility, antagonism, enmity.  And that is just from this thread....


BTW: The Archbishop had no problem calling a spade, a spade.

Union with Rome Pamphlet

Part 1    Part 2
How about some of these:

“We  now  know  with  whom  we have  to  deal.    We  know  perfectly  well  that  we  are dealing  with  a  “diabolical  hand”  which  is  located  at Rome,  and  which is  demanding,  by  obedience,  the  destruction of the Church!  And this is why we have the right and the duty to refuse this obedience…I believe  that  I  have  the  right  to  ask  these  gentlemen  who present  themselves  in  offices  which  were  occupied by Cardinals….. “Are you with the Catholic Church?”  “Are  you  the  Catholic  Church?”  “With  whom  am  I dealing?”  If  I  am  dealing  with  someone  who  has  a pact with Masonry, have I the right to speak with such a person?  Have I the duty  to listen to them  and to obey them?”(Archbishop Lefebvre, 1978, Ordination Sermon, Apolo-gia Pro Marcel Lefebvre, Vol. 2, p. 209, Michael Davies)1980  “I  have  never  change

1987 “The See of Peter and the posts of authority in Rome being occupied by anti-Christs, the destruction of the Kingdom of our Lord is being rapidly carried out even in His Mystical Body here below....This is what has brought down upon our heads persecution by the Rome of the anti-Christs. This Rome, Modernist and Liberal, is carrying on it’s work of destruction of the Kingdom of our Lord, as Assisi and the confirmation of the liberal theses of Vatican II on Religious Liberty prove...”
(Archbishop Lefebvre, Letter to future bishops Aug. 29, 1987)


AND MOST IMPORTANT..
1988 “One is driven to wonder how intelligent persons can make a statement like, “They prefer to be mistaken with the pope, than to be with the truth against the pope.” That is not what the natural law teaches, nor the Magisterium of the Church... St. Thomas says...”if there was question of a danger for the faith, the superiors would have to be rebuked, by their inferiors, even in public.”
(Archbishop Lefebvre, March 29, 1988)


Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 03, 2012, 05:45:59 PM
Quote from: Cronier
KyrieEleison
Quote
This mentality coming out of the sspx may be cultish when describing the complacency of the faithful who adhere to every stupid thing they are told from people like Fellay and Rostand but to call the leadership cultish is being to nice. They act in a calculated slithering way that has every trait of communist tactics written all over it. The people in the pews are the useful idiots but the ones running the show from menzingen have taken up the character of those they want to come under, they take up the characteristics of the enemies of Christ.
The sspx needs one big exorcism. Its mentally and spiritually sick from the top and its working its way down. In the case of the superior its easy to see how he lost it, it happens when someone fights the known Truth-with a capitol T. In his case he fights the Truth in order to get his way.
Lord let MY will be done, that's what his plan has been all along.


Neil Obstat
Quote
warn us AGAINST believing what Fr. Rostand
is heard here saying in this abominable sermon, given while standing in the
holy place, as he leaves Sacred Tradition in desolation before our ears, for those
who have ears to hear!!


Quote
They have Most Conspicuously Taken Up the Character of those under whom they want to become subject in all things — covetous of their jurisdiction with an unholy spirit, an unclean spirit of DEADLY VICE, like an apocalyptic MONSTER.

This ROT, that, like a FISH has started from the HEAD, has started to spread
down to the district superiors and from there to the parish priests and from
there to the lay faithful in the pews, is a fulfillment of Scripture, for when one
is given to a HARD HEART, and persists in this abominable pride saying LORD,
LET MY WILL BE DONE, God 'blesses' their obstinacy with a CURSE, and
heardens their heart.  For when it is GOD Who does the hardening, the heart
turns totally against the truth, and the Romans One Curse comes into play:


I would say those quotes most certainly display hostility, antagonism, enmity.  And that is just from this thread....



Dear Cronier,

You have accused me of hostility, antagonism, enmity and I would like to talk
to you about that.  

Are you willing to defend yourself, or are you going to hurl epithets of spite
and judgment in a general direction toward others whom you have never met
nor know anything about, and then run away and hide?  

If you were a man, I might have other questions.

But since you are a woman, I would like to say that I really appreciate your
being willing to divulge the fact, to at least provide the Catholic true men on this
site, of which there are no small number, the opportunity to be gentlemen in
your presence.

And please try to remember that this is a thread about Fr. Rostand's sermon
in St. Mary's, KS.  Which reminds me, it would be appropriate if you could let
us know if you were present at the sermon, because I, for one, was not, and if
you were, then you would have a more powerful witness grace due to that
fact alone, which I promise to respect.  

If you are too busy to reply soon, due to work or other duties, you can rest
assured that no one is going to hold that against you.

Thank you for your consideration.

~Nl.Obs.




Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Telesphorus on December 03, 2012, 05:57:53 PM
Anger:

Quote
The desire of vengeance. Its ethical rating depends upon the quality of the vengeance and the quantity of the passion. When these are in conformity with the prescriptions of balanced reason, anger is not a sin. It is rather a praiseworthy thing and justifiable with a proper zeal.


http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01489a.htm

I don't see any ill will in the criticisms of the subversion and usurpation of Catholic Tradition that is occurring.

Rather it is justified anger, justified by the immensity of the evil that those people are collaborating with.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 06:19:21 PM
Neil,

I'm just reminding us all, by way of St. Benedict, that we should all be very conscious of our words and thoughts.  We should live with the thought of death always before us in order to avoid sinning, in thought, word and deed.  

I cannot help but sense animosity in your posts Neil which in turn leads me to conclude you harbor ill-will toward priests/bishops of the SSPX.  No I have never met you but you leave open a window into your character by the words you put forth on this forum.  We all do.  
Example taken from the "Menzingen propaganda" thread page 4 wherein you stated:
Quote
Okay, now the gloves are off.

You want to talk about deceptive pride, do you?  You, who support,
apparently (we don't really know because he doesn't identify himself)
the deceptive pride in presuming to hog-tie three bishops of the
SSPX under the smarmy counsel of a big-money dealing donor who
would purchase (can you spell simony?) the direction of a would-be
office of the Church (at least the leadership of a fraternal society) for
the purposes of diverting the operation and effectiveness of the
world's largest remnant of traditional Catholics?  That deceptive
pride??  Oh, no, you wouldn't want to talk about that, would you.  

Why not?  Well, obviously, then we would be ready to talk about your
practical atheism.  Is that why you know so much about where that
comes from, because it is what you have embraced yourself??

What is the SSPX's confidence or hope in God, if not what was
providentially supplied by the most unique treasure of the life of the
Founder himself, who gave said life entirely to the establishment and
preservation of this Society, and, as it were, DIED IN CHILDBIRTH!!

And therefore it is YOU, unnamed priest, hiding behind Internet
anonymity (but not daring to complain about it when others practice
it!) it is YOU who no longer considers himself beholden to the
Providence of God!  For it is YOU who are hereby supporting and
abetting the nefarious wiles of the Menzingen-denizens and their
incessant push to get Catholics (read: the pew-sitters and collection
basket fillers) worldwide to kowtow to your PRAY, PAY AND OBEY
tyranny, isn't it, in obstinate defiance of any and all the inconvenient
principles of the Founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.  ISN'T IT?!?!

on further you state, speaking to the anonymous priest who wrote the article:
Quote
WWHHHHOAAAA, BOY!  I most definitely do have a right to question
the manifest defection of one or more priests who would dare to '
lead my soul to HELL by deception, DO I NOT??  Oh, but you would
screech and howl, like a demon under exorcism, like your feet held
to the fire, for me to be "charitable!" to "have mercy!" and to "be nice!"
to this DEMONIC PERVERSION you proffer, WOULDN'T YOU?!


I can't help but read anger in that post Neil.  I mean no disrespect to your Neil.  But it seems from your posts that you often times let your passions rule you...passion over reason.  That's not good.  

To answer your question, no I was not at St. Mary's.  I do not live there.  
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 03, 2012, 06:22:19 PM
Quote from: bowler
Quote from: bowler
Quote from: Cronier

Fr. Rostand spoke the truth in his sermon.  The Prostestant mentality is rampant throughout the world.  Traditional Catholics, being part of the world, are not exempt.  This spirit of "independence" is Modernist, it is American, it is Prostestant.    


Here's a repsonse for you from this thread:


Quote from: Telesphorus
"My opinion" - here's the problem Father Rostand - "your opinion" is not that of your ordinary.

So who are you to criticize Catholics for following their own opinions on the Crisis of the Church?

Are you claiming authority to decide who is Catholic and who is not?


Fr. Rostand and Menzingen are Protestants, independents, and everything that they accuse us of. Once they join Rome and are subject to their ordinary, then that speech will make sense.



From:
http://sspx.org/sspx_and_rome/is_the_sspx_heretical_1_11-30_2012.htm

Quote
During the doctrinal discussions, as explained by Bishop Fellay, the Roman theologians accused us of having a Protestant attitude because we followed our own judgment against the Church Magisterium,



It is most instructive to see that Fr. Rostand appears to be trading places
with the Romans, for during the earlier experience when they were accused
of having a Protestant attitude, they were on the receiving end, so they
ought to be understanding of that.  But instead, it is as though they have
not endured that abuse (and LIE, actually, calumny) against them with the
charity and perseverance on which they are so prone to preach, and
are thereby so demanding of their own would-be subjects (no jurisdiction = we
are not their subjects, but they presumptuously preach AS IF we were,
which presumption is objectively sinful, and if grave in matter, mortally sinful,
which they should know all about since they're the 'experts') to practice.  It
therefore seems to be the case, they demand of us (illegitimately unless we
give them their erstwhile missing "grace of state," but if we don't, then they
won't have it) our practice of moral virtues that they have in case of fact
demonstrably shown they are not able to likewise practice.  There is a word
for that, but we would have Cronier jumping out of her seat and we cannot
have that, can we?  

Should I resort to charades (again! :chef: ?)

I could go through my detailed explanation of how this moniker of
"Protestantism" is demonstrated by that very person by his own making
of the very same repeated accusation in the link to the OP but I'd rather
take a cue from Tele this time: it doesn't do much good to cover too
much in one post, for the readers probably won't plough through the
whole thing.


Right, Tele?



Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Telesphorus on December 03, 2012, 06:30:08 PM
It is very typical of these characters in the "Church of +Fellay" to attack the characters, reputations, and motives of those who criticize them, while at the same time trying to guilt anyone who confronts them and their BS.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 06:39:16 PM
Quote
So anyone who is "indepentant" from the SSPX is a Protestant or has a Protestant mindset?


No not at all Spiritus Sanctus.  That is not what I was indicating at all.  An independent spirit and/or ideals is practically embedded in today's mindset, particularly Americans.  It is a mindset that has no authority other than oneself.  That is a Protestant mindset.  It is a statement of fact.  That is what Fr. Rostand was saying.  We are all infected with it.  I believe Americans even more so.  But it is also due to original sin.  

I agree with you that the SSPX is not the Church.  The SSPX would agree with you as well.  
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Columba on December 03, 2012, 06:48:28 PM
Quote from: Cronier
Quote
So anyone who is "indepentant" from the SSPX is a Protestant or has a Protestant mindset?


No not at all Spiritus Sanctus.  That is not what I was indicating at all.  An independent spirit and/or ideals is practically embedded in today's mindset, particularly Americans.  It is a mindset that has no authority other than oneself.  That is a Protestant mindset.  It is a statement of fact.  That is what Fr. Rostand was saying.  We are all infected with it.  I believe Americans even more so.  But it is also due to original sin.  

I agree with you that the SSPX is not the Church.  The SSPX would agree with you as well.  

Then the suspicions of the resistance result, at least in part, from a neo-Protestant, Americanist tendency?

Those willing to go along with Menzingen are less affected by this tendency? Perhaps you should consider those already in "full communion" with newRome as even less affected by neo-Protestant, Americanist tendencies.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Cronier on December 03, 2012, 06:54:08 PM
I am stating that it is easy to fall prey to the independent American mindset in any and all decisions that we make due to its prevalence in society, therefore we have to fight against it at every turn.  
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Telesphorus on December 03, 2012, 07:18:49 PM
The reality is that the Protestant, Americanized (or rather Judaized - as this culture is heavily influeced by the Jєωιѕн media) attitudes are being exhibited by those who don't care about the principles of the Archbishop but rather in the social status of the society.  They don't like being "irregular" - it's bad for business, or "circulation" (a Fellayite on IA compared the SSPX and the Pope to the editorial board of a newspaper) It's very apparent who the people are who have the liberal, bourgeois, and Americanist attitudes, and they aren't the ones in the resistance.  

The priests leading the resistance, Bishop Williamson, etc, are not motivated by a "Protestant" mentality.  That is simply a mendacious slur.

The leadership of the SSPX are acting as Protestants in usurping the Archbishop's work - and in making claims to authority that are not theirs to make.

The resistance doesn't accept Bishop Fellay's attempt to tightly control the priests  - so that an essay against Assisi 3 has to be published with a disclaimer, that it has Bishop Fellay's permission!  Do the priests now need permission to criticize false ecuмenism?  The priests of the resistance see the liberalization taking place.  They are there.  They see it.  They are not following their own will.  They are refusing to practice false obedience to the illegitimate exercise of authority, that they have observed getting worse for years now, and has now reached the point where they feel compelled to speak out.

To not go along with Bishop Fellay as he shakes hands with modernists and Zionists and has Bishop Williamson kicked out of the society?  That is Protestantism?  Let's not forget, the Zionist (under the name Pius XII) has been quoted on Kreuznet as calling the letter of the three bishops to Bishop Fellay "Protestant."  This slur of "protestant" is just garbage - coming from people, some of whom, would have a hard time justifying the label Catholic.  Certainly they could be called Protestant, with much more justice, than those they are accusing of it.

These liberal priests are not only following their own will in opposition to that of the Archbishop (as John MacFarland says, the Archbishop is dead) - they are also insisting that others must follow their will and change as they change.  They are the ones who are possessed of a towering vanity and pride, and that is shown by their tyrannical acts, over and over again.  Their arrogance is repulsive and seemingly without limit - the impossibility of having a good faith discussion with them is manifest.  

You cannot argue with these people - they are not interested in discussion, they have put on airs of authority and they insist that no one question it.  Well, they're not in a position to do that.  No one who attends the SSPX is bound to obey them - because they are no one's ordinary.  

Practically speaking, they do treat the SSPX as the Church.  They are double-talkers of course, always speaking out of both sides of their mouth - refusing to accept the implications of their words - their position is always inconsistent, always convenient.  

As this "protestant" slur shows.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Columba on December 03, 2012, 09:39:27 PM
Quote from: Telesphorus
You cannot argue with these people - they are not interested in discussion, they have put on airs of authority and they insist that no one question it.

Menzingen supporters cannot engage in a good faith discussion because their position is manifestly indefensible from a traditionalist standpoint. The only defenses currently offered by Menzingen are attacks upon the characters of its internal critics. Previously, Menzingen invoked the pejoratives of "schismatic" and "sedevacantist." Now it seems they have moved toward epithets of protestant, liberal, and democrat.

Tomorrow they may call us taliban, modernists, and freemasons. Or perhaps they will start a run-down of the historical heresies, starting with Jansenist, Domatist, and Gallicanist. When punch of those epithets wear off, they may dig deeper to employ Manichaeist, Pelagian, and Arian.

What is certain is that Menzingen will never sit still for a civilized discussion on the merits of its position and always resort to stirring up distraction by ad hominem attacks upon the persons of the resistance.

Let those uninformed or uncertain about Menzingen's position simply examine its conduct to determine whether it is aiming to deceive.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Machabees on December 03, 2012, 09:58:01 PM
In reaching out…

Cronier, I just heard Fr. Hewko’s recent sermon: “Fr. David Hewko, 02 Dec 2012, Toronto, Ontario, Canada”  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djfXbD5UDd8&feature=plcp  and thought of you.

I certainly agree in your two foundational points you are trying to get across…

At the same time, in what others are trying to say in the many responses to your two points, I see there is a misunderstanding.  Simply, this post is a political topic/discussion and not a (strict) spiritual topic/discussion.  In other words, you once wrote in response to Materdominici comment to you, of “Cronier, if you consider deal or no deal to be a matter of politics and wish not to engage in such, statements such as "I do not agree with their position" should be avoided.”  You responded: “Hence the use of the word "try" ... "I TRY not to engage in politics." I don't always succeed.”  (Under the post: A message to Saint Marys, A colossal disappointment.  Posted Nov 27, 2012, 6:26 pm.).  Perhaps then, you do not recognize that this is a "political" discussion?

Also Cronier, I noticed that you are new to this site (Joined: Nov 24, 2012).  I do not know how much you are read on this serious crisis of the SSPX, however as Catholics, there is a lot of important and necessary information we all need understand, to catch up on, and to make a decision on for ourselves and for our families.  It is essentially about the Faith, Truth, and the Grace of the Sacraments…

 I do know this site Cathinfo.com is a very good site for information –it is not “perfect”, nor is any individual or family perfect.  

Yes, we all do need to have the greater charity especially to understand one another.  All of us live in an environment we didn’t make, yet we are a part of it…and have our own crosses in the divers’ walks of life that influence us.

And to the many (registered members and non-members) who read these posts and replies, really for the salvation of souls, I would like to offer some help and focus to this discussion.

First, help…

I noticed, Cronier, that you have two main points: the “spirit of propriety” and the “spirit of protestantism”.  

In your two points: #1) Yes, (foundationally) you are right that in season and out of season, we all need to have propriety and be responsible for our actions (…) –God first!  And yes, (foundationally) all of us in this world are affected by some form of “protestantism” –from original sin.  –Both spiritual.

I really think that everyone understands this from their replies.

Second, focus…   

In the other responses to you, there is really one main point, within this discussion (of now 79 replies), the central issue of: What is said, and what is not said, by the leaders of the SSPX and its consequences (…).  –Political.

So may I inject the focus back on this important post.  Namely, this crisis in the SSPX is very serious.  As everyone must agree; otherwise, we would not be on this website to discuss these matters.

In reaching out, Cronier, Fr. Hewko’s sermon is excellent, and well balanced, to understand the central issue of this crisis in a historic and present circuмstance…

It is for all to listen to.  It is really good…

Pax.


Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 03, 2012, 10:28:03 PM
Dear Cronier,

You had me on the edge of my seat whether and how you would
respond.  Thank you for your diligence.  I hope this is not cutting
into your duties...



Quote from: Cronier
Neil,

I'm just reminding us all, by way of St. Benedict, that we should all be very conscious of our words and thoughts.  We should live with the thought of death always before us in order to avoid sinning, in thought, word and deed.  


Crux Sancti Patris Benedicti: Vade Retro Satana Non Suade Mihi
Vana: Sunt Mala Quae Libas Ipse Venea Bibas: Ejus in obitu nostro
praesentia muniamur.


Thank you for pointing out a place where the holy Rule has a
direct application in context.  We all have much to learn from it.

Quote
I cannot help but sense animosity in your posts Neil which in turn leads me to conclude you harbor ill-will toward priests/bishops of the SSPX.  No I have never met you but you leave open a window into your character by the words you put forth on this forum.  We all do.  




I don't blame you for first touching on the intention question.  You
can read a lot of written stuff but only when you have access to the
author can you clear up this question, and only then if he's willing to
answer it.   But this is not about me.  If it helps you at all, last time
I checked, I didn't find I was harboring any ill will or animosity toward
anyone, much less any SSPX clerics.  Is that a question you would
ask the guy who overturned the money changers at the temple, or
accused the Pharisees of being whited sepulchres and sons of satan?

I have known and still know several SSPX priests for whom I would
gladly give my life if it were required.  I have absolutely the highest
regard for the SSPX bishops, but not all.  Now, I do not question their
Holy Orders, and I do not hold their sacraments in suspicion.  And, as
St. Francis of Assisi was wont to say, I would kneel before them and
kiss their hand for this is the hand that brings me the Bread of Life.

I hope that makes you feel better.  But again, this thread is about
the sermon given on the First Sunday of Advent at St. Mary's.  Oh,
and by the way, I knew the holy priest who had been an SSPX priest,
and who purchased that KS property for the SSPX many many years
ago with his own, personal money, and got the parish started.  I am
forever grateful to God for the signal grace and conspicuous
privilege bestowed upon me and my friends for being allowed to
keep his company for a limited time before he raced off to another
important sacramental appointment.  He was covering about 15
states, from what I hear.  He died of terminal cancer, but he never
stopped saying Mass and traveling immense distances to do so.
He died with his boots on.  I think I have met a saint.  

Quote
Example taken from the "Menzingen propaganda" thread page 4 wherein you stated:

Quote
Okay, now the gloves are off.

You want to talk about deceptive pride, do you?  You, who support,
apparently (we don't really know because he doesn't identify himself)
the deceptive pride in presuming to hog-tie three bishops of the
SSPX under the smarmy counsel of a big-money dealing donor who
would purchase (can you spell simony?) the direction of a would-be
office of the Church (at least the leadership of a fraternal society) for
the purposes of diverting the operation and effectiveness of the
world's largest remnant of traditional Catholics?  That deceptive
pride??  Oh, no, you wouldn't want to talk about that, would you.  

Why not?  Well, obviously, then we would be ready to talk about
your practical atheism.  Is that why you know so much about where
that comes from, because it is what you have embraced yourself??

What is the SSPX's confidence or hope in God, if not what was
providentially supplied by the most unique treasure of the life of the
Founder himself, who gave said life entirely to the establishment and
preservation of this Society, and, as it were, DIED IN CHILDBIRTH!!

And therefore it is YOU, unnamed priest, hiding behind Internet
anonymity (but not daring to complain about it when others practice
it!) it is YOU who no longer considers himself beholden to the
Providence of God!  For it is YOU who are hereby supporting and
abetting the nefarious wiles of the Menzingen-denizens and their
incessant push to get Catholics (read: the pew-sitters and collection
basket fillers) worldwide to kowtow to your PRAY, PAY AND OBEY
tyranny, isn't it, in obstinate defiance of any and all the inconvenient
principles of the Founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.  ISN'T IT?!?!



I did not forget that there was considerable context to this quote
which you have omitted.  Do you remember the context?   Do you
recall that the author wrote these things after the conference in
Post Falls, apparently, or, at least they were posted well after the
conference so as to at least appear to be a development thereof?

Do you have any comments on that observation?

Are you willing to acknowledge the principle of context when you
select out one quote from among thousands of quotes and focus
all your attention on that one?

Quote
on further you state, speaking to the anonymous priest who wrote the article:


Actually, I do not know who wrote the article.  Do you?  Are you
saying he is an anonymous priest because you know he is such, or
are you saying that because you see me presume that.. BTW it isn't a
sin of presumption to presume that, I was simply taking the worst
case option in the event that he is a priest.. But I suppose "he" could
be a "she," now couldn't he?

Quote
Quote
WWHHHHOAAAA, BOY!  I most definitely do have a
right to question the manifest defection of one or more priests who
would dare to lead my soul to HELL by deception, DO I NOT??  
Oh, but you would screech and howl, like a demon under exorcism,
like your feet held to the fire, for me to be "charitable!" to "have
mercy!" and to "be nice!" to this DEMONIC PERVERSION you proffer,
WOULDN'T YOU?!


I can't help but read anger in that post Neil.  


Let me explain something here.  This is an Internet forum.  We do
not have the power to see each other face to face.  So think of it as
we are writing letters to each other, okay?  Remember the days when
people would carry on postal intercourse, perhaps for years, before
they ever got to meet the person to whom they wrote?  And, to
touch on the topic you seem to be rather focused on (and I must say,
rightly so!) sometimes they would never actually get to meet, but
one would find by someone else's letter that their pen-pal had
passed away, and this is to let you know..

In the days when Americans came from Europe, often times they left
behind friends and family that they would never see again.. But now,
Americans are more likely to have friends and family living within
convenient driving distance whom they neglect to meet for years on
end, amen.

Speaking of "amen," if a priest threatens to lead you astray and cause
you to lose your faith, is that something that these Americans, who
can ignore their own family and friends for years until they die,
should therefore play nice to, and the priest someone they should
continue to tolerate and respect as a "man of God" when they in fact
see him as a priest who is leading souls to hell by his apostasy??

Or, are you of the mind that priests NEVER lead souls to hell by their
apostasy?

Quote
I mean no disrespect to [you] Neil.  But it seems from your posts that you often times let your passions rule you...passion over reason.  That's not good.  

To answer your question, no I was not at St. Mary's.  I do not live there.  


Thank you for answering my question regarding your absence at the
sermon. Can I therefore expect that you are relying on the mp3
recording supplied by sspxbvm for this discussion?  I presume you
have listened to that by now?

And I do know that you mean no disrespect, by the tone of your
posts, so seeing you say that here (I was going to type "hearing you
say" but I can't actually hear you but rather I see what you typed)
reassures me that the intention I had perceived was not an illusion.  

Thank you.

As for my passions,  that is between my confessor and me, and not
for the eyes of strangers worldwide.   But you know, God gives us
our passions for a reason.  They are gifts, actually, and it is up to
us to make the best use of them.  

Are you aware, for example, that if you had not read what you saw I
wrote, perhaps you would not realize that the sermon of Fr. Rostand
is offensive to pious ears?  Would you prefer to remain in that
deception?  
 
Now, perhaps if we could hear the whole thing, we may have a
different impression.  But keep in mind, that if 65% of it was
offensive, is there much chance that the other 35% would fix the
problems?  

Therefore, I fully expect that hearing the whole enchilada would
have been even MORE offensive to pious ears than the part we CAN
hear.  

Most people listening to that sermon would leave the room and not
give it a second thought.  Same goes for most Catholics.  But if
5,000 people walk by a starving man on main street and only one is
moved to stop and give him consolation, is that somehow offensive
to the others who did not stop or did not notice?  

Are you aware that Our Lord warned us not to fear him who can kill
your body but rather fear him who can cast your soul into hell
forever?   How is it uncharitable to quote Our Lord when we see
that the words are appropriate?  Or are you accusing me of
misappropriating His words?  Perhaps you would prefer His words
to quietly pass over the horizon where we won't need to see them
anymore?  Don't forget what He said at the end of last week's
Gospel.  Do you recall the Gospel for Christ the King Sunday?

Are you aware that there have been heresies that raged for years,
one of which did so before one layman standing up and making a
loud accusation effectively caused the ungodly thing to crash and
burn?  

Have you ever been in a church that was being defiled, and have
you ever seen anyone intervene with good will to stop it from
happening?  Would you think of telling him that something he said
while stopping the outrage seemed to you to be due to him not
having control of his passions?

Now, I could be way off the mark here, but since the authors of these
screeds are not daring to show their faces, all we can do is presume.

But when the firemen get an alarm bell, should they stand around
and discuss whether or not to go on the call?  Or, if the firemen fail
to take the proper action and a passer-by notices the need, should
he jump in a waiting truck and take some kind of action?

The post you first quoted,  "More Menzingen Propaganda"  (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=21802&min=15&num=1) was sourced
from the SSPX website, and was first posted there several days before
the sermon Fr. Rostand gave yesterday in St. Mary's.   I don't know if
you realize that the content and tone of his Post Falls "conference"
the other day was comparable to the sermon he gave yesterday.  Can
you tell me how it was not identical?  

I could go on and on and on, and I think you agree I'm not kidding!
HAHAHAHAHA

But let's save us all some grief and maybe you can answer a few of
my points here, okay?  BTW: I sense a religious aspect to your posts.  
Are you a nun, perhaps?

If nothing else, tell me how you think Fr. Rostand's content and
demeanor was different yesterday, the First Sunday of Advent, from
his erstwhile appearance in Idaho, Immaculate Conception parish, I
think it's called.  Or let me know if you think it was the same.  




Remember, this thread is about Fr. Rostand's sermon yesterday.  It
could turn into its own sub-forum if there were a few more nuts like
me around, eh??                  HAHAHHAHA




Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: PerEvangelicaDicta on December 03, 2012, 10:32:24 PM
Quote from: Columba
Quote from: Telesphorus
You cannot argue with these people - they are not interested in discussion, they have put on airs of authority and they insist that no one question it.

Menzingen supporters cannot engage in a good faith discussion because their position is manifestly indefensible from a traditionalist standpoint. The only defenses currently offered by Menzingen are attacks upon the characters of its internal critics. Previously, Menzingen invoked the pejoratives of "schismatic" and "sedevacantist." Now it seems they have moved toward epithets of protestant, liberal, and democrat.

Tomorrow they may call us taliban, modernists, and freemasons. Or perhaps they will start a run-down of the historical heresies, starting with Jansenist, Domatist, and Gallicanist. When punch of those epithets wear off, they may dig deeper to employ Manichaeist, Pelagian, and Arian.

What is certain is that Menzingen will never sit still for a civilized discussion on the merits of its position and always resort to stirring up distraction by ad hominem attacks upon the persons of the resistance.

Let those uninformed or uncertain about Menzingen's position simply examine its conduct to determine whether it is aiming to deceive.


Quite simply, this is how satan operates, and menzingen cooperates, joining the ranks of the whited sepulchres of Rome.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: PerEvangelicaDicta on December 03, 2012, 10:43:09 PM
"coincidental", Neil Obstat, that we posted almost simultaneously, using the reference to 'whited sepulchres'.  +1 alone for that :smile:
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: bowler on December 03, 2012, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: Columba
Quote from: Telesphorus
You cannot argue with these people - they are not interested in discussion, they have put on airs of authority and they insist that no one question it.

Menzingen supporters cannot engage in a good faith discussion because their position is manifestly indefensible from a traditionalist standpoint. The only defenses currently offered by Menzingen are attacks upon the characters of its internal critics. Previously, Menzingen invoked the pejoratives of "schismatic" and "sedevacantist." Now it seems they have moved toward epithets of protestant, liberal, and democrat.

Tomorrow they may call us taliban, modernists, and freemasons. Or perhaps they will start a run-down of the historical heresies, starting with Jansenist, Domatist, and Gallicanist. When punch of those epithets wear off, they may dig deeper to employ Manichaeist, Pelagian, and Arian.

What is certain is that Menzingen will never sit still for a civilized discussion on the merits of its position and always resort to stirring up distraction by ad hominem attacks upon the persons of the resistance.

Let those uninformed or uncertain about Menzingen's position simply examine its conduct to determine whether it is aiming to deceive.


Well worth repeating your comment in full, excellent in every word. Thanks for the "bottom line", it puts in words what I have observed from personal experience. This is exactly all I get from the local pastor, and of course the local supporters of the changes - " attacks upon the characters of its internal critics...ad hominem[/i] attacks upon the persons of the resistance"

This demonizing of person is always a sign of ignorance of the subject. We ourselves have to be careful of it. And this is all that I have heard from those who "support" the neo-SSPX purge of the true followers of Abp. Lefebvre.

Bishop Willamson? - He's a conspiracy theorist, an αnтι-ѕємιтє, uranium, a old man.

Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer? - he's always been a hot head, and hard for his suppeiors to control.

Fr. Nichols? - he's disobedient



Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: stgobnait on December 04, 2012, 03:01:10 AM
which fr nichols is that?
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 04, 2012, 04:35:53 AM
Quote from: stgobnait
which fr nichols is that?



Ditto.


Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 04, 2012, 06:54:36 AM
Dear Cronier,

In the event you are unfamiliar with how things happen here on CI, while Tele's
post, below, was made some half hour after yours here, and the fact that often
times he does not quote the post to which he's replying, this time, since his post
is rather long (it is rather unusual for him to have so much to say in any single
post), he could easily have been typing it when you made this post, and he may
not have checked the thread (which may require opening a new tab or browser
to see if any new posts have arrived while you were typing) before submitting
this reply.  Therefore it is reasonable to presume that his post, below, was not
a reply to yours, here, nor is it impossible that he may have been unable to
factor in yours here before running off to other duties.

Quote from: Cronier
I am stating that it is easy to fall prey to the independent American mindset in any and all decisions that we make due to its prevalence in society, therefore we have to fight against it at every turn.  


Americans are a unique breed in history, to be sure.  The practice of religious
obedience does not come easily to any American.  And this characteristic is
not unrelated to Protestantism, but also, it's not identical to it, either.  You can't
put all the blame on Americans, but the unclean spirit of Vatican II was not a
matter insulated from Americanism, either.  Some commentators have opined
that it was precisely Americanism being exported across the Pacific Ocean to
Rome that gave the Council a lot of its impudence toward Catholic Tradition.

Do you agree with that?  

Quote from: Telesphorus
The reality is that the Protestant, Americanized (or rather Judaized - as this culture is heavily [influenced] by the Jєωιѕн media) attitudes are being exhibited by those who don't care about the principles of the Archbishop but rather in the social status of the society.  They don't like being "irregular" - it's bad for business, or "circulation" (a Fellayite on IA compared the SSPX and the Pope to the editorial board of a newspaper).  It's very apparent who the people are who have the liberal, bourgeois, and Americanist attitudes, and they aren't the ones in the resistance.  

The priests leading the resistance, Bishop Williamson, etc, are not motivated by a "Protestant" mentality.  That is simply a mendacious slur.

The leadership of the SSPX are acting as Protestants in usurping the Archbishop's work - and in making claims to authority that are not theirs to make.


These clarifying statements are so essential for us to recognize to make our
thinking capable of recognizing the truth of what is going on these days.  

When I read Cronier's statement that what Fr. Rostand said in his sermon is
"the truth," I had to hang my head and nearly cry.  It was not the "truth."  It
was at most a HALF truth.  And a half truth is a whole lie.  This is the manner
of deception that the devil uses.  It is most UNBECOMING of a priest to stoop
to such a lowness.  And then for him to presume his listeners are obligated to
accept this manifest lie and be "obedient" to his dictates when he objectively
has no such authority, is heaping one mendacious lie on top of another.

These things need to be called out.  Shame on him!  And the Menzingen-denizens
have the GALL, the TEMERITY, the IMPUDENCE to punish other good priests who
are doing God's work while they subborn the PURGERY of this ilk?  

This is a moral CRIME of the HIGHEST ORDER.  And it's time Catholics WAKE
UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.

And for me to say so is not me expressing "anger" or "animosity" or "enmity" or
"ill-will" or "hostility" or "antagonism" or any of the other words you can find in
the thesaurus to dole out your ad hominems when you can't grope in the dark
sufficiently to defend these indefensible acts of the Menzingen-denizens.  It is,
rather simply righteous indignation, and it is entirely justified, for here
we are, being stripped of our patrimony and heritage before our eyes,
and some of us have been there and done that already, and some things are
worth fighting for.  American pioneer women learned the hard way to tell their
men-folk, "now is the time to defend your family."  And sometimes it meant the
father had to die.  That is also part of American history.  We are not that far
removed from the prairie and the frontier.  

Quote
The resistance doesn't accept Bishop Fellay's attempt to tightly control the priests  - so that an essay against Assisi 3 has to be published with a disclaimer, that it has Bishop Fellay's permission!  Do the priests now need permission to criticize false ecuмenism?  The priests of the resistance see the liberalization taking place.  They are there.  They see it.  They are not following their own will.  They are refusing to practice false obedience to the illegitimate exercise of authority, that they have observed getting worse for years now, and has now reached the point where they feel compelled to speak out.


You know, Tele, it is so good to see you expound on this essential matter.  We
are actually obligated to make these principles our own and be prepared to
voice them in context whenever the need arises.  

We have been conditioned in our age to be blind to such things by the spoon-
feeding of errors in the MSM and politicians' words, which have trickled down
into education and even the pulpits of various religions.  We repeat the mantras
of Freemasons, basically, without being aware of it.  The smoke of satan has
entered the Church through some crack.  Pope Gregory XVI described a black
fog from hell covering the earth and he called it "the Liberalism."  We are nearly
200 years hence today.  The black fog has had a lot of time to get into our
minds.  It is time some clarity is applied by means of truth in action.  The truth
will set you free.  

Quote
To not go along with Bishop Fellay as he shakes hands with modernists and Zionists and has Bishop Williamson kicked out of the society?  That is Protestantism?  Let's not forget, the Zionist (under the name Pius XII) has been quoted on Kreuznet as calling the letter of the three bishops to Bishop Fellay "Protestant."  This slur of "protestant" is just garbage - coming from people, some of whom, would have a hard time justifying the label Catholic.  Certainly they could be called Protestant, with much more justice, than those they are accusing of it.


It is our duty to identify hypocrisy when it happens like this.  Mendacity has no
place in the words of any priest.  Father Rostand stands there and accuses
others
of "Protestantism" while he's practicing it himself!  

Does your handy thesaurus have any fingerprints on that page??


(Not you, Tele!)

Quote
These liberal priests are not only following their own will in opposition to that of the Archbishop (as John MacFarland says, the Archbishop is dead) - they are also insisting that others must follow their will and change as they change.  They are the ones who are possessed of a towering vanity and pride, and that is shown by their tyrannical acts, over and over again.  Their arrogance is repulsive and seemingly without limit - the impossibility of having a good faith discussion with them is manifest.  


Man, sometimes you come up with a paragraph that should be immortalized.

And that's one for the record!  

These liberal priests are not only following their
own will in opposition to that of the Archbishop
(as John MacFarland says, the Archbishop is dead)
- they are also insisting that others must follow
their will and change as they change.  They are
the ones who are possessed of a towering vanity
and pride,
and that is shown by their tyrannical
acts,
over and over again.  Their arrogance is
repulsive and seemingly without limit - the
impossibility of having a good faith discussion
with them is manifest.




Quote
You cannot argue with these people - they are not interested in discussion, they have put on airs of authority and they insist that no one question it.  Well, they're not in a position to do that.  No one who attends the SSPX is bound to obey them - because they are no one's ordinary.  



Truer words were never spoken.  The Lion of Wimbledon would be reading this
and know that all is not lost.  There is a glimmer of hope yet to be found.

I'm going to be quoting this post of yours, Tele, if you don't mind.  Thank you.


Quote
Practically speaking, they do treat the SSPX as the Church.  They are double-talkers of course, always speaking out of both sides of their mouth - refusing to accept the implications of their words - their position is always inconsistent, always convenient.  

As this "protestant" slur shows.


For those who are not "getting it," when Tele says "this protestant slur shows"
he is saying that Father Rostand stands there and points the finger of
accusation at the Resistance, accusing them of "Protestantism."  But it's a lie.
It is a "slur."  It is pertinacious calumny, actually.  He should know better.

Shame on him.  

It is not "anger" or "malice" or "animostiy" or "pride" or "hatefulness" or "ill will"
for any of us to say these things in the face of such a priest who commits
these moral transgressions, these vicious digs, these outright outrages against
everything true, just, good, beautiful and honest.  

He had better own up to his ERROR and ABJURE IT before it is too late,
because if he happens to go to meet his Maker with such dark and dreary
blemishes on his soul, he's in for NO GOOD CONSEQUENCE to be sure.

There is no way to put a NICE FACE on this objective perversity.

There is, rather meet justification to repeat the Romans One Curse warning:




This is a sad day indeed.

They have Most Conspicuously Taken Up the Character of those under whom
they want to become subject in all things — covetous of their jurisdiction with
an unholy spirit, an unclean spirit of DEADLY VICE, like an apocalyptic MONSTER.

This ROT, that, like a FISH has started from the HEAD, has started to spread
down to the district superiors and from there to the parish priests and from
there to the lay faithful in the pews, is a fulfillment of Scripture prophesy.  



For when one is given to a HARD HEART,

and persists in this abominable pride saying,

LORD, LET MY WILL BE DONE,

God 'blesses' their obstinacy with a CURSE,

God hardens their heart.  

For when it is GOD Who does the hardening,

the heart turns totally against the truth,

and the Romans One Curse comes into play:


22 For professing themselves wise, they became foolish...
24 Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart...
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served
the creature, rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever.  Amen.
26 For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections...
27 ...receiving in themselves the recompense that was due to their error.
28 And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered
them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient:
29 Being filled with all iniquity ... malice ... avarice, wickedness, full of envy,
contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers,
30 Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of
evil things, disobedient to parents (and Founding Fathers)
31 Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy,
32 Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they
who do such things are worthy of death; and not only they that do them,
but they also who consent to them that do them.
cap. ii. 1 Wherefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that
judgest.  For wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself.
For thou dost the same things that thou judgest.
2 For we know that the judgment of God is, according to truth, against
them that do such things...




Woe to thee, Corozain,
Woe to thee, Bethasida.  
For if in Tyre and Sidon
had been wrought
the miracles that have
been wrought in you,
they had long ago
done penance
in sack cloth and ashes.

But I say unto you,
it shall be more tolerable
for Tyre and Sidon
in the day of judgment
than for you.

And thou Capharnaum,
shalt thou be exalted
up to heaven?
thou shalt go down
even unto hell.

For if in Sodom
had been wrought
the miracles that
had been wrought
in thee,
perhaps it had remained
even unto this day.

But I say unto you,
it shall be more tolerant
for the land of Sodom
in the day of judgment
than for thee.

At that time Jesus
answered and said:

I confess to Thee,
O Father, Lord of
heaven and earth,
because Thou hast
hid these things
from the wise
and prudent,
and hast revealed
them to little ones.

Yea, Father,
for so it hath
seemed good
in Thy sight.


(Saint Matthew cap. xi. 21-26)


"Heaven and earth shall pass away

but my words shall not pass away."


(Mk. xiii. 31, cf. Matt. xxiv. 35)

Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Ecclesia Militans on December 04, 2012, 06:57:43 AM
What is the date of this sermon?
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 04, 2012, 07:21:36 AM
Quote from: Ecclesia Militans
What is the date of this sermon?



What an oversight!  Thanks for asking.  I had to go back and see, for we
had been running on in full knowledge of the date, yet the date is nowhere
to be found in this thread (I think) but is only in the words of Fr. Rostand
in the audio on YouTube.  He begins saying it's the First Sunday of Advent.

That was two days ago, December 2nd, 2012.



...........a lot has "hit the fan" in only a day and a half..............


Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: bowler on December 04, 2012, 08:05:27 AM
Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: stgobnait
which fr nichols is that?



Ditto.




I meant to write Fr. Hewko. Sorry about that.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on December 04, 2012, 03:59:40 PM
Father rostand has been brainwashed and needs to be deprogrammed.  He needs to go to private retreat where he is listens to audio book of Confused Catholics:
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: stgobnait on December 04, 2012, 05:35:42 PM
he needs to be forced to sit through a year of novus ordo's, ...... that's what will soften his cough.....
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: sspxbvm on December 04, 2012, 08:09:38 PM
Ironic how Fr. Rostand can read the epistle for the first Sunday in Advent and then proceed to do the opposite.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 04, 2012, 09:39:42 PM
Quote from: bowler
Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: stgobnait
which fr nichols is that?



Ditto.




I meant to write Fr. Hewko. Sorry about that.



 :confused1:   How could you ever get them mixed up?  

There's a big difference between them:  about 400 mm!   :scratchchin:

Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 04, 2012, 11:41:56 PM
Quote from: sspxbvm
Ironic how Fr. Rostand can read the epistle for the first Sunday in Advent and then proceed to do the opposite.


To do the opposite = act in a manner contrary to the action described...

Let us cast off the armor of light and put on the works of darkness?

Like that?

Let us lie down in falsehood, as in the night: in rioting and drunkenness,
in chambering and impurities, in contention and envy; and take ye off
the Lord Jesus Christ?


Like that?




Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 05, 2012, 02:29:37 AM
Quote from: Cronier
Quote from: MiserereMeiDeus
Quote from: Cronier
My point still stands as before:

At the forefront of our minds we should say to ourselves, "Were I to die at this very moment would I die in the state of grace?"  If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?  Many traditional examinations of consciences list the deriding of a priest, religious, or bishop as a sin against the 4th commandant.  It is also most assuredly a sacrilege because these men are consecrated to God.  

Please, everyone, let us all keep death in mind so that we can keep from sinning, in word, thought or deed.  



It disturbs me that you appear to be equating ill will with expressing alarm at Menzingen heading in a bad direction. You seem genuinely concerned that someone will die in a state of preferring to defend the Faith over preferring to practice false obedience.


Defending the faith is one thing... deriding a priest and/or bishop which is common place on this forum is quite another.  






For your context on this issue, for a broader perspective, this is from
another website and is a question and an answer:



Mrs. Adrienne Szatkowski
06:47 AM on December 03, 2012
I understand what's happening in Rome, but I think these "posters" like Wolfsburg, etc. are cheap and tacky, and take away from the cause tremendously. Modesty and class are lacking. The message must not be dramatized so as to appeal much like the old movie theatre posters that merely sensationalized. IMHO. Do keep up the good work for The Traditional Catholic Faith, as John The Baptist and Jesus Himself called a spade a spade - yet, with definition and clarity, without cheapening it and holding up God's honor. I hope you will take this as helpful - it is truly meant to be so. God Bless!




Reply inthissignyoushallconquer
11:29 PM on December 03, 2012
Dear Mrs. Szatkowski,

I hope the following comments from Bishop Williamson regarding the Archbishop's Cartoons will put things in perspective for you.

"Yes, you might reply, but even if the two pictures correspond to the reality of today's situation, the Archbishop risks alienating a lot of his followers who will not find such an attack on the Pope acceptable.
Reply: if millions of souls, Catholic and non-Catholic, are in danger of receiving mortal scandal from the ecuмenical acts of this Pope, then such souls must be warned by whatever means will reach them (and many souls are reached today by pictures). And if many souls will be turned away by such an overdose of reality, the Archbishop may have judged that at this late stage those that have ears to hear should hear, even if many others take offence. Our Lord knew that when he told people to eat His flesh and drink His blood, the great majority (Jn. VI, 67, 68) would abandon Him as a crazy preacher of cannibalism (?) but He announced the Holy Eucharist all the same. The truth must be preached in season, out of season, says St. Paul. Is, or is not, today's ecuмenism a mortal danger? The Archbishop thinks that even some Traditional Catholics are growing to accept this viper into their bosom. No wonder he is resorting even to shock tactics! How else can he get through to this television generation?
Fr. Richard Williamson (Letter from Friends and Benefactors, Date Unavailable, Cartoon Photos Copyrighted by SSPX)





In like manner, quoting Scripture on the same subject, even if the words
of Scripture are shocking or scandalous to some listeners, should not be
something over which the speaker should have scruples.  And, by
extension, using the same manner of reproaches that are found in
holy writ, for the same purposes, should likewise not be a matter of
concern.  Care must  be taken, but the offense that gives rise to this
reaction must be stopped, even if it is a cleric or a bishop or the pope.







Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: sspxbvm on December 05, 2012, 06:13:09 AM
Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: sspxbvm
Ironic how Fr. Rostand can read the epistle for the first Sunday in Advent and then proceed to do the opposite.


To do the opposite = act in a manner contrary to the action described...

Let us cast off the armor of light and put on the works of darkness?

Like that?

Let us lie down in falsehood, as in the night: in rioting and drunkenness,
in chambering and impurities, in contention and envy; and take ye off
the Lord Jesus Christ?


Like that?






Most of it. The drunkeness, I don't think so, unless it can be applied to being spiritually drunk--then, yes. The impurities, again, if it can be applied spiritually, yes.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 05, 2012, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: sspxbvm
Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: sspxbvm
Ironic how Fr. Rostand can read the epistle for the first Sunday in Advent and then proceed to do the opposite.


To do the opposite = act in a manner contrary to the action described...

Let us cast off the armor of light and put on the works of darkness?

Like that?

Let us lie down in falsehood, as in the night: in rioting and drunkenness,
in chambering and impurities, in contention and envy; and take ye off
the Lord Jesus Christ?


Like that?






Most of it. The drunkenness, I don't think so, unless it can be applied to being spiritually drunk--then, yes. The impurities, again, if it can be applied spiritually, yes.


Okay then.   Thanks for the answer.   Let's take a look at a stripped version:

How would a Society priest turn his vocation against its proper end
and, even while continuing to provide the Sacraments, defect from his
most sacred calling as a shepherd of souls?  It would be to cast off the
armor of light and to put on the works of darkness!

Then, as it were, to lie down in falsehood, as in the night: in wanton lust
for power,  with infidelity to the true end of holy orders, in contention and
envy.  He would thereby remove the vesture of Our Lord Jesus Christ.



Heavy words, but I think you're onto something,  unfortunately.   :tv-disturbed:





Hey, sspxvbm:  kinda reminds me of the Kirkland monument - and you?
Maybe me and you orter do some dic-kerin;  mosey on down the road,
throw down some grapes and moon?

Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: sspxbvm on December 05, 2012, 08:48:37 PM
"Now is the hour to rise from sleep" What a contradiction! He then proceeded to lull everybody back to sleep. That is if they were not being vigilant.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: sspxbvm on December 05, 2012, 09:06:01 PM
 OUR resistance is in Our Lady, the mother of God, who bore within her womb the 2nd person of the blessed Trinity, Our Lord Jesus Christ, the author of the
magisterium, the supreme authority of the Cathoic Church, our Redeemer, our God and our soul's great desire.


  To avoid mentioning our Lady in the "Resistance" sermon is a very dangerous thing to do----offending her Son at the cost of keeping the people dumbed down. God's jusitice will come around. Remember him? The angel that went from door to door? Those marked with the love of Mary and the Holy Face will be spared, no doubt.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 06, 2012, 06:23:55 PM




Quote

OUR resistance is in Our Lady, the mother of God, who bore within her womb the 2nd person of the blessed Trinity, Our Lord Jesus Christ, the author of the magisterium, the supreme authority of the Cathoic Church, our Redeemer, our God and our soul's great desire.

  To avoid mentioning our Lady in the "Resistance" sermon is a very dangerous thing to do----offending her Son at the cost of keeping the people dumbed down. God's jusitice will come around. Remember him? The angel that went from door to door? Those marked with the love of Mary and the Holy Face will be spared, no doubt.


I'm not sure I get this.  What is the "Resistance sermon?"  Is that
what you mean by Fr. Rostand's sermon?  

If so, what are you quoting with "Our resistance is in Our Lady...?"

That wasn't from Fr. Rostand.  So where is it from?


Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: sspxbvm on December 06, 2012, 07:43:03 PM
Quote from: Neil Obstat




Quote

OUR resistance is in Our Lady, the mother of God, who bore within her womb the 2nd person of the blessed Trinity, Our Lord Jesus Christ, the author of the magisterium, the supreme authority of the Cathoic Church, our Redeemer, our God and our soul's great desire.

  To avoid mentioning our Lady in the "Resistance" sermon is a very dangerous thing to do----offending her Son at the cost of keeping the people dumbed down. God's jusitice will come around. Remember him? The angel that went from door to door? Those marked with the love of Mary and the Holy Face will be spared, no doubt.


I'm not sure I get this.  What is the "Resistance sermon?"  Is that
what you mean by Fr. Rostand's sermon?  

If so, what are you quoting with "Our resistance is in Our Lady...?"

That wasn't from Fr. Rostand.  So where is it from?




Okay, buddy. I'm not quoting anybody (by the way we are resisting the novus ordo magisterium). Yes. I title his sermon "the resistance sermon." And last but not least it comes from us. A bunch of nobodies really!!
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 06, 2012, 10:08:42 PM



You wrote that?   Wow.  That's pretty good stuff, fella!  Thumbs up for you!! :smile:






                                     (http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.4565877466530547&pid=15.1&W=160&H=160)







Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: sspxbvm on December 07, 2012, 02:39:24 PM
Is that an M&M?
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 05, 2013, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: Cronier
Quote from: Quo Vadis Petre
You should use those words against those pro-+Fellay supporters and +Fellay himself who regularly denigrate +Williamson ("like uranium," "has Alzheimer's disease," mentally not there, etc.) and the SSPX-resistance priests.


They will indeed have to answer for their words and their thoughts.  No doubt about it.  They are not exempt.


QVP was talking about the quip, below, but I didn't want to post it twice....


Quote from: MiserereMeiDeus
Quote from: Cronier
My point still stands as before:

At the forefront of our minds we should say to ourselves, "Were I to die at this very moment would I die in the state of grace?"  If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?  Many traditional examinations of consciences list the deriding of a priest, religious, or bishop as a sin against the 4th commandant.  It is also most assuredly a sacrilege because these men are consecrated to God.  

Please, everyone, let us all keep death in mind so that we can keep from sinning, in word, thought or deed.  



It disturbs me that you appear to be equating ill will

with expressing alarm at Menzingen heading in a bad

direction. You seem genuinely concerned that

someone will die in a state of preferring to defend the

Faith over preferring to practice false obedience.





That's a really good reply, MiserereMeiDeus.  But I'd like to know how you
were able to understand who the "4th COMMANDANT" might be.

Maybe I've seen too many Hogan's Heroes episodes.  




Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: vincent M on March 06, 2013, 07:43:36 AM
Quote from: TinkerBell
I hope that those who are so critical of the SSPX priests and its leadership are not hypocrites who attend their Masses and receive their sacraments.  In other words, do you use the priests you so disdain as sacramental vending machines while anonymously trashing them in a public forum?  


Who is responsible for all this mess in the SSPX ? Do you really think this is the faithful, legitimally scandalized by the attitudes of the authorities ?

The authorities are responsible for this mess and no-one else. Honesty leads to this conclusion.

Regards.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: hollingsworth on March 06, 2013, 09:15:28 AM
Interesting!  This from a district superior, representative of an organization, declared by the pope himself not to have canonical recognition from Rome, or to be able to offer licitly the Sacraments of the Church licitly.  The priestly ministers of sspx do not have valid Sacraments, according to the Holy See.  So if we who have broken away from sspx are "protestants," or "protestanters," (everyone chuckle), then that protestant rebellion began 40 years before anything called "The Resistance" ever surfaced.
Poor Fr. R.  He's a plastic, battery-powered priest, operated remotely from Menzingen.  Please, Fr. R., go home! :shocked:
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: MiserereMeiDeus on March 06, 2013, 03:11:26 PM
Quote from: Neil Obstat
...I'd like to know how you
were able to understand who the "4th COMMANDANT" might be.

Maybe I've seen too many Hogan's Heroes episodes.  






LOL! Maybe it's because I've been a professional proofreader and copy editor. I automatically assumed that the writer meant 4th Commandment, which applies to honoring not just one's earthly (i. e., biological) parents, but "Father" priest and bishop as well.

And of course, I did not mean to discount the sinfulness of bearing animosity toward even the vilest of sinners. Hate the sin, not the sinner, an' a' that.
Title: Father Rostand sermon in Saint Marys, KS
Post by: Frances on March 06, 2013, 09:02:08 PM
Once given, a gift is. no longer in the power of the giver.  Is banishment from the chapel you built and financed charitable?  No.  Has there been a gross miscarriage of justice?  Yes.  Did not Our Lord suffer likewise?  How numerous are the saints who passed from this world banished from the orders: or foundations of their making!  Don't complain; rather,  rejoice to be found worthy of suffering for Christ!  You are  amidst saints.  (Or is it your priority to be vindicated by man?). Readers, please grant one another benefit of doubt and room to change mind. "The greatest of these is CHARITY.". St. Paul, I Cor. ch. xiii