Author Topic: Father Pfluger Sees Novus Ordo Being Abolished in 20 Years (Read 4751 times)

TKGS · « **Reply #15 on:** May 25, 2012, 09:13:51 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

It won't be long before most "traditionalists" believe everything the larger liberal society believes, they will just be going to "the old mass."

I my experience, this is this the case with Catholics who exclusively attend indult communities such as the FSSP. They simply like the pagentry of the traditional Mass and they're happy that the homilies they hear seldom stray into the crazyland world they hear at times at the Novus Ordo.

If the SSPX is regularized the same will be the case with the faithful who attend their services as well, I think. There will certainly be no reason to go to an SSPX chapel other than for the "pagentry of the traditional Mass". Frankly, there are not just a few faithful in the SSPX chapel I attend who are already there.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #16 on:** May 25, 2012, 09:19:48 AM »

Quote from: TKGS

If the SSPX is regularized the same will be the case with the faithful who attend their services as well, I think. There will certainly be no reason to go to an SSPX chapel other than for the "pagentry of the traditional Mass". Frankly, there are not just a few faithful in the SSPX chapel I attend who are already there.

Yes, most of the indult masses have liberal sermonizers, they just tone it down, but the liberalism and modernism still remain implicit in their sermons.

Diego · « **Reply #17 on:** May 25, 2012, 09:28:09 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

...The Novus Ordo religion is simply going to collapse, in fact, regardless of Church attendance, I would say it nearly has collapsed already in terms of it having any serious effect on the lives and conduct of its members.

The goal of bringing the trads into false obedience is to liberalize trad-dom...

Telesphorus has well-summarized what Fr. Ratzinger hopes to gain from "the deal," a Kabbalistic dialectic to move Catholicism to the exact moribund position Lucifer and his ѕуηαgσgυє seek.

Francisco · « **Reply #18 on:** May 26, 2012, 08:12:59 AM »

Quote from: Ethelred

Am I still on topic? Wait... it was: Father Pfluger sees blah-blah in 20 years?
Clearly he doesn't see a thing! The SSPX is lead by blind men.

This man has got the nerve! A crony of Fellay who has led us up the garden path and now wants another topic to occupy himself with? What sort of people are these? The vast majority of Novus Ordo attendees are happy with that service. But in waltz the Defectors Brigade to tell them otherwise!

Mysterium Fidei · « **Reply #19 on:** May 26, 2012, 04:39:06 PM »

Quote from: Sede Catholic

It is not the Novus Ordo that will disappear if these men have their way.

It is the Traditional Latin Mass.

There are plans to merge the A.D. 1962 Ordo with the A.D. 1970 Ordo.

So then the ruination will be complete.

Yes, I agree with this. This is nothing but a divide and conquer move by BXVI. The Modernists have no intention of “preserving Tradition”; they are doing everything in their power to destroy the Tridentine Mass and Traditional Catholicism. Fellay is either a fool or a Judas.

I believe the long term goal is a hybrid Mass with a little Latin thrown in and maybe some elements of tradition such as communion while kneeling on the tongue and the Mass ad orientem. Catholics can have the “smells and bells” but with the same old Modernism. The true Mass will be relegated to Sede chapels and whatever is left after most of the SSPX joins up with their Modernist masters.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #20 on:** May 26, 2012, 07:38:31 PM »

What's to stop the Society from leaving Rome again?

What practical expectations are involved?

Will the Vatican deploy a Platoon of Papal Zouaves at each Society installation to take possession of it in the event the Society objects to any obections to Roman arbitrariness?

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #21 on:** May 26, 2012, 07:40:23 PM »

Quote from: Sede Catholic

Quote from: MaterDominici
Quote
But: "In twenty years, then the Pope will do it."

In 20 years, this Pope will be 105 years old!

Yes, that is a good point, Mater.

These people often seem to live in a delusion that Benedict XVI will somehow save the Church.

Firstly, he has no intention of saving the Church.
He has spent decades working to eradicate the Faith.

Secondly, he is too old.

(Although the first reason - he has no intention of saving the Church - is the real deciding factor).

It's not a good point because either you believe that the successors of the Papacy are the rightful Popes or you don't.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #22 on:** May 26, 2012, 07:45:52 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: Telesphorus
It won't be long before most "traditionalists" believe everything the larger liberal society believes, they will just be going to "the old mass."

I my experience, this is this the case with Catholics who exclusively attend indult communities such as the FSSP. They simply like the pagentry of the traditional Mass and they're happy that the homilies they hear seldom stray into the crazyland world they hear at times at the Novus Ordo.

If the SSPX is regularized the same will be the case with the faithful who attend their services as well, I think. There will certainly be no reason to go to an SSPX chapel other than for the "pagentry of the traditional Mass". Frankly, there are not just a few faithful in the SSPX chapel I attend who are already there.

What do you base this judgement on?

In my experience, most of those who attend FSSP/Diocesan chapels are not there out of preference but principle.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #23 on:** May 26, 2012, 07:46:55 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Wessex
The Novus Ordo is not a fixed point. It was designed to evolve in line with modern notions of 'social progress'. Because of the speed of life and change we are now facing, we cannot even predict the future using straight line extrapolation; an honest method would be using exponential notation with explosive results! The race towards a nihilistic finale could however be the savour of what is left of mankind which will have no other place to go but back to basics. Fr. Pfluger is I fear moving towards some kind of hybridised future for the church; a development of the Novus Ordo project, not its replacement.

The Novus Ordo religion is simply going to collapse, in fact, regardless of Church attendance, I would say it nearly has collapsed already in terms of it having any serious effect on the lives and conduct of its members.

The goal of bringing the trads into false obedience is to liberalize trad-dom.

It won't be long before most "traditionalists" believe everything the larger liberal society believes, they will just be going to "the old mass."

I'd have to say that never having been out of the middle West, that you'd have a hard time making that assertion.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #24 on:** May 26, 2012, 08:05:36 PM »

Quote from: Augstine Baker

I'd have to say that never having been out of the middle West, that you'd have a hard time making that assertion.

Where should I go to find things in better shape?

Europe? The West Coast? The East Coast, the South? Latin America?

The Phillipines? Ireland?

The sad reality is that the Novus Ordo is religion has more influence in the Midwest than elsewhere.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #25 on:** May 26, 2012, 08:14:37 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Augstine Baker
I'd have to say that never having been out of the middle West, that you'd have a hard time making that assertion.

Where should I go to find things in better shape?

Europe? The West Coast? The East Coast, the South? Latin America?

The Phillipines? Ireland?

The sad reality is that the Novus Ordo is religion has more influence in the Midwest than elsewhere.

There are people going to their deaths for the Catholic Faith all over the world, and there are significant examples of Catholic fidelity if you have the eyes, years and heart for it.

If you're not expecting to find it and have already created a faulty template, I could very well expect you wouldn't know what to look for.

As it is, you've never been out of the middle West, so you probably don't know much about what goes on outside of it, and I daresay, you had a hard time deciphering what was going on in your own chapel.

Like a lot of people on this board, your personal preferences triumph over a zeal for mundane things like objectivity, or truth.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #26 on:** May 26, 2012, 08:23:00 PM »

Quote from: Augstine Baker

As it is, you've never been out of the middle West

That isn't true. But it shows the feebleness of your position, to pretend one cannot be informed of things outside of one's own location.

It's analagous to the "debating" style of ggreg, to be honest.

Quote

so you probably don't know much about what goes on outside of it,

What is the Church attendance in Europe?

Quote

and I daresay, you had a hard time deciphering what was going on in your own chapel.

Sounds like you're trying to change the subject.

I could change the subject too. What would it prove?

It won't prove the Novus Ordo religion isn't collapsing.

Quote

Like a lot of people on this board, your personal preferences triumph over a zeal for mundane things like objectivity, or truth.

I think objective people can compare the words of the Archbishop with the words of Bishop Fellay about Vatican II. I also think objective people can read the words of Benedict XVI and realize his religious belief still follows that of Teilhard de Chardin, whom he discussed in a sermon in 2009. That is, a monistic pantheistic delirium.

It's right there on the SSPX asia site.

Look it up! Do some reading?

Oh wait - you probably already know all about that, and just decide to disregard it. Hmmmmm.

Makes me wonder. What's the point again? What do you really believe Augustine?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #27 on:** May 26, 2012, 08:27:06 PM »

What was that nonsense you were talking about the media hoaxing the child molestation problem?

When Daneels diocese was literally putting out an obscene catechsim with sɛҳuąƖized illustrations of infants?

And you accuse us of being delusional!

What a joke!

Telesphorus · « **Reply #28 on:** May 26, 2012, 09:00:31 PM »

Quote

There are people going to their deaths for the Catholic Faith all over the world, and there are significant examples of Catholic fidelity if you have the eyes, years and heart for it.

One final point: I said the Novus Ordo religion, I wasn't referring to the Catholic Faith.

Odd that you should identify the two.

LaramieHirsch · « **Reply #29 on:** May 27, 2012, 08:11:38 PM »

This post became it's own thread:
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Catholic-World-is-Divided