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Author Topic: Father Gregory Hesse, RIP  (Read 10300 times)

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Re: Father Gregory Hesse, RIP
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2020, 10:19:00 PM »
The reason he gave for the validity of the new rite was absolutely absurd. He said that since it was a “schismatic rite” Pius XII declaration on the form and matter was only for the latin rite. A lot of people will reply to yiur OP saying “ he was convinced of its validity” but Hesse knew others weren’t so why not just get conditionally ordained just Incase the original was invalid.
I guess i don't see how we can ask this without also asking why Lefebvre and the SSPX bishops he consecrated didn't insist that he do so.  It seems like if  they had asked him to, he would have done it.

To be clear I'm not saying they shouldn't have, just that this seems like a case where the "blame" isn't being appropriately assigned if this is indeed what he ought to have done.

Re: Father Gregory Hesse, RIP
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2020, 03:05:11 AM »
May his soul and the souls of all the faithful departed rest in peace. Amen.
:pray: :pray: :pray:


Offline Stubborn

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Re: Father Gregory Hesse, RIP
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2020, 05:29:32 AM »
He discusses the reasons for this in some of his talks. He was ordained in the new rite in Latin and was convinced of its validity, at least in Latin. He knew personally the Cardinal who ordained him and was satisfied as to the orthodoxy of his beliefs. So under these circuмstances it would have been sacrilegious to repeat the ceremony, even conditionally.
Well said! Although he did not believe he needed to look into it, he did look into it and could not prove his own ordination was doubtful or invalid, nor could +ABL and the others as Byz states below.

Unless Fr. Hesse is dishonest (and I see no reason to think he is, and you don't either), he's said that Archbishop Lefebvre, Bishop Fellay, *and* Bishop Williamson all said that his ordination was valid and he didn't need conditional ordination.  I get that sedes would categorically disagree with this outright, and usually would out and out say the new rite is invalid (though I realize you'd more say it was doubtful than straight up invalid I think.)  

Honestly, after seeing your comment here, and pondering it, I'm wondering if perhaps the gap between sedes and other trads may be even bigger than previously thought.  
The gap here is that the Catholic Church initially always presumes validity unless proven otherwise, whereas the sedes always presume invalidity.  

In one of his talks, he talked about his ordination, saying:

"...I have been ordained, unfortunately in the new rite of ordination, but thank God in Latin, everything strictly by the book and +ABL said that would be valid, +Fellay said it's valid and Fr. Franz Schmidberger who is my present superior in Austria says it's valid and +Williamson said there's no need for conditional ordination..."

Re: Father Gregory Hesse, RIP
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2020, 06:10:31 AM »
Wrt his ordination, the biggest thing he had going for him was the fact that he was ordained by a bishop who was consecrated in the Old Rite.  

Re: Father Gregory Hesse, RIP
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2020, 06:27:05 AM »
Quote
"...I have been ordained, unfortunately in the new rite of ordination, but thank God in Latin, everything strictly by the book and +ABL said that would be valid, +Fellay said it's valid and Fr. Franz Schmidberger who is my present superior in Austria says it's valid and +Williamson said there's no need for conditional ordination..."



Yes, and one of the two videos where he says this has been removed