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Author Topic: Father Angles is for an accord with Rome  (Read 28762 times)

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Father Angles is for an accord with Rome
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2014, 05:33:41 AM »
Quote from: hollingsworth
Wessex:
Quote
As the grand old man of tradition he had qualities which attracted quite a crowd but his faults also lost so many of them.


The question remains: Are Fellay & Co. simply reflecting the "faults" of ABL; and does that explain why so many have left them?  Because if Fellay's faults are basically carry-overs from the Archbishop, then, perhaps, we should not so severely criticicize the current SG, since he may be only operating with the weaknesses he inherited from his mentor.



Yes, they keep looking for an opportunity to regularise. Gestures from Rome always seem to excite them; they are easy prey to her clever seductions. Which means their doctrinal objections were not that important.

Thankfully, the Resistance does not have the same history and ties with Rome. It has acquired more distance relying solely on ABL's hardline side as a reference point. If it is accommodating towards SVs, it will make make more progress.

Father Angles is for an accord with Rome
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2014, 08:43:39 AM »
Wessex,
Quote
Thankfully, the Resistance does not have the same history and ties with Rome. It has acquired more distance relying solely on ABL's hardline side as a reference point. If it is accommodating towards SVs, it will make make more progress.


I would doubt that being that they have incorporated much of the soft side as well.


Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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Father Angles is for an accord with Rome
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2014, 01:05:34 PM »
To Graham:

I have no more replies for you.  My replies to you have been deleted including my last one. The only quotes of mine left are the ones you chose to keep which make my arguments meaningless.

I have made these arguments elsewhere for years hoping to help the SSPX see why they would fail in their doctrinal discussions with Rome.  Now the Society is in ruins and even now, standing among the wreckage, they still have no clue of what happened and neither do you.  

Marie Auxiliadora

Father Angles is for an accord with Rome
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2014, 02:47:09 PM »
Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora
To Graham:

I have no more replies for you.  My replies to you have been deleted including my last one. The only quotes of mine left are the ones you chose to keep which make my arguments meaningless.

I have made these arguments elsewhere for years hoping to help the SSPX see why they would fail in their doctrinal discussions with Rome.  Now the Society is in ruins and even now, standing among the wreckage, they still have no clue of what happened and neither do you.  

Marie Auxiliadora


That is sad to hear, but while your posts have been deleted, the truth of what you have said remains.

Father Angles is for an accord with Rome
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2014, 02:59:15 PM »
This short history and explanation of the canon is very concise and useful. Thank you for posting this!

Quote from: AJNC
Quote from: J.Paul
As evidenced by an earlier comment, it is just about impossible to write or discuss these matters in detail and honestly without having the cultic mentality raise its head in protest or on the other hand, have detractors of the Archbishop seize the opportunity to use his human failings to wipe away his positive achievements.

An accurate middle ground it seems, cannot be realized.


Sometimes SSPXers fall away and then try to articulate their discontent. The writer of the Open Letter pasted below lives in Mumbai and was once a most ardent supporter of the SSPX, but no longer.

23 Aug 09
An Open Letter by Brian F. Michael
                                                To whom it may concern:

   .
Contrary to what is often alleged, Archbishop Lefebvre acknowledged that the New Mass is valid and contains no heresy. ( Michael Davies, Apologia Pro Marcel Lefebvre, Vol. II, Kansas City MO, USA.  Angelus Press, 1983), p. 378)

If this be the case then why do they tell us not to attend the new Mass. The Angelus Press belongs to the Society of St Pius X (SSPX).

We were given to understand by the SSPX priests that Marcel Lefebvre signed 14 of the 16 docuмents of Vatican Council II (1962-65). He refused to sign: (1) the Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modem World (Gaudium et Spes), and (2) the Declaration on Religious Liberty (Dignitatis Humanae).

But this is not true. Marcel Lefebvre signed all 16 docuмents of Vatican II. This has been confirmed by the Editor, Abbê George de Nantes in his periodical The Catholic Counter- Reformation in the XXth Century — Feb  / Mar 1992: “The Dark Day of 7 Dec 1965” — (At that instant Satan entered him    — Jn. 13:27)

A masterpiece of deceit that destroys and divides Traditional Catholics and their homes.  

Quoting Abp Lefebvre about the Pope:

“Since I recognize in the Pope the successor of Peter, I am not one who considers the seat of Peter vacant. I do not say that this Pope is a heretic. But his ideas are heretical and they have already been condemned by previous Pontiffs, and they lead to heresy”.

This reminds one of Paul VI who was in the habit of speaking from both sides of his mouth. Lefebvre is not able to clearly define a heretic who speaks heresy. Saints have always made a distinction between Christians and heretics. This is the ultimate contradiction:

“…while SSPX maintains nominal recognition of the Pope, they completely disregard him by acting without jurisdiction  —  which they would need to receive from the Pope in order to function as bishops and priests.”

The recent lifting of their excommunication says just this.  (The Reign of Mary, Vol. XXXIII, No. 110, Summer 2002)

Bernard Fellay, SSPX Superior General, in his letter #71 to Friends and Benefactors dated     1 Nov 07 (Feast of All Saints) attributes Benedict XVI’s Motu Proprio as an answer (gift) from Heaven for his Rosary Crusade. Yet Pfeiffer and Chazal both have told us not to attend Benedict XVI’s Motu Proprio Mass. Why are they contradicting their Superior? Does one reject a gift from our Blessed Mother. Bernard Fellay in the same letter writes that,
“The Motu Proprio grants nothing new to the Mass of all time, it merely states that the Mass of Pope St. Pius V, called ‘of John XXIII’ for the occasion, is still in force despite its absence and interdiction against its celebration, lasting nearly forty years.”

Does one change his name for different occasions? What exactly is Fellay trying to prove. He should know better , that the 1962 Missal of John XXIII is the product of a Freemason (anti-Christ Bugnini).

On the other hand the 1570 Missal of Pius V is the work of a Saint. By mixing the two Missals, SSPX is only giving us a Hybrid Mass, (a Mass of different sorts), which is a sacrilege and not the One True Catholic Mass. Why does Fellay try to remove the identity of Pope St. Pius V and make the reader believe that Pope St. Pius V and John XX1II / Bugnini, are one and the same. Is it OK to say,

“Fellay Superior General of the Society of John XXIII for the occasion?”

Pope St Pius V would outright reject the Missal of John XXIII / Bugnini as stated in his Papal Bull, Quo Primum. A Hybrid Mass may be OK for entertainment and make one feel good on a Sunday morning, but it can never be a substitute for the One True Catholic Mass.

There is only One True Catholic Mass. It is not a matter of choice. Some think that  because of the crisis in the Church the SSPX Mass will do. This is wrong thinking. However it is clear that the Devil is sitting on the highest summit of the Church, which of course is the Papacy. That is why Our Lady said that in the end it is the Rosary and the Brown Scapular that will save the world. If you cannot find the One True Catholic Mass, we our told to say the Rosary by our Heavenly Mother.  Because it is Mary the Queen of Heaven and Earth, who in the end will crush the serpent’s head  (Genesis 3:15). Remember a Hybrid Mass can never be a substitute for the One True Catholic Mass. Instead, it is a sacrilege.

But now we have come to know that Fellay is a great stage actor and is ably supported by all his supporting actors. One fails to understand how one can attend their Masses and not incur the wrath of Almighty God, and the Apostles Peter and Paul as stated in Quo Primum.

Pope St. Pius X made a revision not of the text but of the music and Pope  Pius XII altered the timings of the Holy Week services but he did not change the Mass.

The Missal of 1570 (Quo Primum) was indeed the result of instructions given at Trent (1545- 1563).The Missal of Pope St. Pius V erected a barrier against heresy. In comparison to Pope St. Pius V, John XXIII (Roncalli)I was a Modernist suspected of heresy. His election itself was dubious. He placed his hopes in Socialism rather than in the Kingdom of Christ. He failed to condemn the most dangerous heresy of his time — atheistic Communism. During the Vat. II  no one was allowed to  speak against Russia or Communism. Since then no official condemnation of Communism has taken place. This treaty has been called the Vatican-Moscow pact. In his famous encyclical, Pacem in Terris. Roncalli  called for dialogue with Communism — the Church’s No.1 enemy. He forgot that Jesus never dialogued with the Pharisees. Dialogue can never be a substitute for truth; at most, it makes both sides happy and in reality Christ is being bartered and ultimately sold.

In his encyclical ‘Mater et Magister, Roncalli allowed Catholics to vote for Communists and Socialists. He paved the way for an illegitimate marriage between the Catholic Church and Communism. Roncalli was responsible for one million votes going to the Communist party in Italy. He was a true wolf in sheep’s clothing and his Missal of 1962 was Freemason (anti-Christ) Bugnini’s gift to him. This is what an Italian journalist; L. Furno was told by a prelate about Roncalli before the Pope’s death: “If the Lord does not open his eyes, let him at least close them.” (Da una diario ineditio, in La Stampa 3 Jun 73. p.3).  Roncalli did not live to see the evil fruit from the evil tree he planted — the Vat II tree.

The enemies of the Church had won the game. A Modernist had become the Pope who forgot, “That God’s teaching alone is the Rule of Faith. Today the Catholic Church is controlled by Freemasons, (Jews and Communists), with papal collaboration.  Benedict XVI should do what he is told to do in Mathew 7:19-20,”Cut down the evil tree (Vat II tree) and throw it into the fire.” It is because of Roncalli’s Council that the Church is in ruins and it is time to go back to the days of Trent and Quo Primum.

Pope St. Pius V codified the Mass, which was to remain unchanged in perpetuity, so that no heresy could enter into the Mass. Because of the hallowed sacredness of the Roman Rite and to protect it, Pope St. Pius V codified the Traditional Latin Mass, using the strongest language in the proclamation Quo Primum (1570). It says in part:

“At no time in the future can a priest whether secular or order priest ever be forced to use any other way of saying Mass. And in order once and for all to preclude any scruples of conscience and fear of ecclesiastical penalties and censures, we declare herewith that it is by virtue of our Apostolic authority that we decree and prescribe that this present order and decree of ours is to last in perpetuity, and never at a future date can it be revoked or amended legally … And if, never the less, anyone who dares attempt any action contrary to this order of ours, handed down for all times, let him know that he has incurred the wrath of Almighty God, and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.”

 It is clear that Quo Primum cannot be revoked or more defined but remains always valid to retain its full force.
 
The Missal of Pope St. Pius V (Quo Primum, key docuмent).

The true Mass was fixed and fortified by Pope St. Pius V in Quo Primum. If SSPX did not know this, then they were ignorant. Quo Primum is irreversible and unchangeable.  SSPX have dared to discard this Missal and replace it with the Missal of John XXIII.  SSPX should know that Pope St. Pius V used every device of human language and expression to enforce and reinforce, point for point, what was needed in order to install perpetually the true Mass, mandated by the infallible and dogmatic Council of Trent. Quo Primum has never been abrogated, therefore the most serious penalties are attached to its violation in any manner whatsoever, and these penalties are automatically incurred by the violators. Even the highest authorities in the Church are not given any right to tamper with or change anything protected by this docuмent.  Contrary to this command, SSPX says that Quo Primum can be altered by a subsequent pope if the changes made are not substantial. (The Angelus Aug 1998,  p. 27). SSPX should know that there is an immense contrast between the two Missals and one fails to understand with whose authority their Angelus Press is printing the 1962 Missal of Roncalli   (John XXIII) when they should be printing the Missal of St. Pius V — which they have discarded or even destroyed.

The Canon was complete, as we know it today, 1000 years before Columbus  discovered America. This is an historical fact. Columbus discovered America on 12 Oct 1492.The term Canon means ‘fixed rule’, “And whosoever shall follow this rule peace on them and mercy.” (Gal: 6,16).

The tolerance of St. Pius V.

This Pope permitted the retention of any rite that could show a prescription of two centuries.

No Pope has added to or changed the Canon since St. Gregory the Great (590-604).Pope Benedict the XIV (1740-1758) claimed that, “No Pope has added to or changed the Canon since St. Gregory”.

Blessed Pope Pius IX, when requested to add the name of St. Joseph to the Canon, replied: “I am only the Pope. What power have I to touch the Canon?” The Church has always maintained that the Canon of the Mass had its essential origin from Apostolic times.
The Blessed Virgin Mary is styled Queen of Martyrs. St Joseph, on the other hand, was not a martyr and therefore not put in the Canon of the Church.

List of names in the Canon.

The Blessed Virgin Mary.

11 Apostles together with St. Paul (The Apostle John died on the island of Patmos of old age).

5 Pope Martyrs — Linus, Cletus, Clement, Sixtus, Cornelius).

1 Bishop — Cyprian.

2 Clerics — Lawrence and Chrysogonus.

4 Laymen — John and Paul, Cosmos and Damian.

After Quo Primum (1570) — i.e. from 1572-1958) there have been 35 popes till John XXIII. Not one of these popes touched the Canon. The Canon is the heart of the Mass and the Catholic Mass is the heart of the Catholic faith. 35 popes ratified and supported this papal Bull because the Canon is the immovable rock on which the Liturgy rests. A tradition of more than a Millennium certainly existed in the Roman Catholic Church, that the Canon should not be changed. How then can it be destroyed without invoking the wrath of God.

On 13 Nov 62 Roncalli added the name of St. Joseph to the Canon of the Mass , after more than 1300 years. It was a direct violation of the Quo Primum decree of Pope St. Pius V, forbidding anyone to tamper with the Canon. The binding power of Quo Primum has been conceded by every Pope, since Quo Primum alone insures continuation and integrity of the Holy Mass.

If Quo Primum can be altered by trying to re-word it, then in that case any papal Bull can be changed and the Catholic faith has no credibility. What the innovators have done is to give a precedent for tampering with the Canon. It appears that for 2000 years the Church did not realize the importance of St. Joseph in the Canon till Roncalli thought of it..

It is interesting to note that Angelo Roncalli took the name John XXIII. There was an anti Pope who had the same name who reigned from 1410-1415. One wonders why Angelo Roncalli chose to take the name of such a scandalous character. Has the holy sanctuary been dismantled? The traditional Canon has been destroyed and yet, SSPX says that it is the defender of tradition.

Vat II  (11 Oct 62 - 8 Dec 65) was a Pastoral Council. In his opening speech Roncalli stated on 11 Oct 62, “There will be no infallible definitions. All that was done by former Councils. That is enough”. And Ratzinger/(Benedict XVI) told the bishops of Chile in 1988:  “The truth is that this particular Council (Vat II) defined no dogma at all and deliberately chose to remain on a modest level, as a merely Pastoral Council. Yet, many treat it as though it had made itself into a sort of super dogma.” We were told that nothing was going to be changed, and Roncalli and his successors all swore an installation oath, “To change nothing”.... Then why the change?

Roncalli suppressed the Confiteor before Communion, i.e. removed it. SSPX priests however say it. What deceit! If one is using the Roncalli missal, why take the second Confiteor from Pope St. Pius V’s missal. Follow the rubrics of one missal only. Interchanging of missals is not allowed.

“It is a fact that in earlier times local churches were permitted to add new prayers and ceremonies... But that they were also permitted to subtract prayers and ceremonies in previous use, and even to remodel the existing rites in the most drastic manner, is a proposition for which we know of no historical foundation, and which appears to us absolutely incredible”   (“A Vindication of the Bull”,  Apostolicae Curae”, Longman 1898, pp.42-3).

I believe that SSPX priests are not required to swear St. Pius X’s Oath against Modernism. Nor do they say Mass using his missal. Why is St. Pius X their patron? It is clear SSPX is not a defender of tradition.
 “Cursed be he that doth the work of the Lord deceitfully.” (Jeremiah 48:10)  It appears SSPX has not come across this verse — or is the dollar more powerful than Christ and the One True Catholic Mass.
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