Author Topic: Father Angles is for an accord with Rome (Read 28726 times)

JPaul · « **Reply #15 on:** March 06, 2014, 07:36:09 AM »

As evidenced by an earlier comment, it is just about impossible to write or discuss these matters in detail and honestly without having the cultic mentality raise its head in protest or on the other hand, have detractors of the Archbishop seize the opportunity to use his human failings to wipe away his positive achievements.

An accurate middle ground it seems, cannot be realized.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #16 on:** March 06, 2014, 07:57:37 AM »

Quote from: Unbrandable

if you are in the Resistance, it is not my cup of tea, because an accord really must be made. It is necessary, otherwise we will end up schismatic.

If you believe everything you do, that V2 can be interpreted in the light of Tradition and that the V2 popes are without a doubt legitimate, then I hate to break it to you, Father, but you already ARE in schism. If those things are true, then you must immediately return to Rome unconditionally and not under some "accord".

Maria Auxiliadora · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2014, 11:04:46 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Unbrandable
if you are in the Resistance, it is not my cup of tea, because an accord really must be made. It is necessary, otherwise we will end up schismatic.

If you believe everything you do, that V2 can be interpreted in the light of Tradition and that the V2 popes are without a doubt legitimate, then I hate to break it to you, Father, but you already ARE in schism. If those things are true, then you must immediately return to Rome unconditionally and not under some "accord".

Exactly! If any of these priests and +Fellay were men of conscience and upright character they should have returned to Rome a long time ago. Their only purpose for not doing so is to seek their own end and not the glory of God. Their conduct is shameful!

John Grace · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2014, 11:53:35 AM »

Perhaps Father Angles is hoping to become Superior General and finalise the accord.

July 6, 1988

Open Letter to Cardinal Gantin
Prefect of the Congregation
for Bishops
http://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Archbishop_Lefebvre_and_the_Vatican/Part_I/1988-07-06.htm

Quote

Ecône, July 6, 1988

Eminence,

Gathered around our Superior General, the Superiors of the Districts, Seminaries and autonomous houses of the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X think it good to respectfully express to you the following reflections.

You thought it good, by your letter of July 1st, to inform Their Excellencies Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer, and the four Bishops whom they consecrated on June 30, at Ecône, of the excommunication latæ sententiæ.We let you judge for yourself the value of such a declaration, coming from an authority who, in its exercise, breaks with all its predecessors down to Pope Pius XII, in worship, teaching and government of the Church.

As for us, we are in full communion with all the Popes and Bishops before the Second Vatican Council, celebrating precisely the Mass which they codified and celebrated, teaching the Catechism which they drew up, standing up against the errors which they have many times condemned in their encyclicals and pastoral letters. We let you judge on which side the rupture is to be found. We are extremely saddened by the blindness of spirit and the hardening of heart of the Roman authorities.

On the other hand, we have never wished to belong to this system which calls itself the Conciliar Church, and defines itself with the Novus Ordo Missæ, an ecuмenism which leads to indifferentism and the laicization of all society. Yes, we have no part, nullam partem habemus, with the pantheon of the religions of Assisi; our own excommunication by a decree of Your Eminence or of another Roman Congregation would only be the irrefutable proof of this. We ask for nothing better than to be declared out of communion with this adulterous spirit which has been blowing in the Church for the last 25 years; we ask for nothing better than to be declared outside of this impious communion of the ungodly. We believe in the One God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, with the Father and the Holy Ghost, and we will always remain faithful to His unique Spouse, the One Holy Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church.

To be publicly associated with this sanction which is inflicted upon the six Catholic Bishops, Defenders of the Faith in its integrity and wholeness, would be for us a mark of honor and a sign of orthodoxy before the faithful. They have indeed a strict right to know that the priests who serve them are not in communion with a counterfeit church, promoting evolution, pentecostalism and syncretism. In union with these faithful, we make ours the words of the Prophet: “Præparate corda vestra Domino et servite Illi soli: et liberabit vos de manibus inimicorum vestrorum. Convertimini ad Eum in toto corde vestro, et auferte deos alienos de medio vestri—Open your hearts to the Lord and serve Him only: and He will free you from the hands of your enemies. With all your heart return to Him, and take away from your midst any strange gods” (I Kings 7:3).95

Confident in the protection of Her who has crushed all the heresies in the world, we assure Your Eminence of our dedication to Him Who is the only Way of salvation.

Fr. Franz Schmidberger, Superior General
Fr. Paul Aulagnier, District Superior, France
Fr. Franz-Josef Maessen, District Superior, Germany
Fr. Edward Black, District Superior, Great Britain
Fr. Anthony Esposito, District Superior of Italy
Fr. François Laisney, District Superior, United States
Fr. Jacques Emily, District Superior of Canada
Fr. Jean Michel Faure, District Superior of Mexico
Fr. Gerard Hogan, District Superior of Australasia
Fr. Alain Lorans, Superior, Seminary of Ecône
Fr. Jean Paul André, Superior, Seminary of France
Fr. Paul Natterer, Superior, Seminary of Germany
Fr. Andrès Morello, Superior, Seminary of Argentina
Fr. William Welsh, Superior, Seminary of Australia
Fr. Michel Simoulin, Rector, St. Pius X University
Fr. Patrice Laroche, Vice-Rector, Seminary of Ecône
Fr. Philippe François, Superior, Belgium
Fr. Roland de Mérode, Superior, Netherlands
Fr. Georg Pflüger, Superior, Austria
Fr. Guillaume Devillers, Superior, Spain
Fr. Philippe Pazat, Superior, Portugal
Fr. Daniel Couture, Superior, Ireland
Fr. Patrick Groche, Superior, Gabon
Fr. Frank Peek, Superior, Southern Africa

No answer was received.

95. Antiphon at Matins, read in the beginning of July.

Graham · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2014, 01:22:13 PM »

Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora

There is an open letter that was first printed in Culture Wars Magazine entitled, Why the SSPX Cannot Effectively Defend Catholic Tradition. Its point was that Archbishop Lefebvre failed to defend two absolutely essential points: The immutability of Catholic Dogma, and the Immemorial Roman rite of Mass as necessary attribute of the Catholic Faith and not a simple matter of Church discipline. +Lefebvre held that any "good" Muslim, Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, Protestant, Orthodox, etc. could gain eternal salvation by being a "good" Muslim, Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, Protestant, Orthodox, etc.

Prove that he held that.

Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora

He held that the dogma of faith that there is 'no salvation outside the Catholic Church' was dispensed by "invincible ignorance."

He did not hold that any dogmas could be dispensed with. That's merely your clumsy twisting of what he held. He held that it was possible in principle for a man invincibly ignorant of the Church and therefore not visibly part of the Church to be saved.