Author Topic: FACTS Against the "Rumours" and against...  (Read 3483 times)

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Offline PereJoseph

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FACTS Against the "Rumours" and against...
« on: May 19, 2012, 01:29:42 PM »
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  • Here is a good article by Nicholas Wansbutter -- Bishop Williamson's former Eleison Comments editor -- from "Durendal" dissecting the accusations of "rumour-mongering" and "gossip" coming from Menzingen and its apparatchiks.  I encourage you to read it in its original, much better format, which can be found here :

    http://rencesvals.blogspot.ca/2012/05/sspx-regularization-part-ii-rumours.html

    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    S.S.P.X Regularization? Part II - "Rumours"


    Very well, then, let us look at the facts:

    FACT: posted on www.sspx.org is a six minute video clip of an interview given by Bp. Fellay to Catholic News Service. In that video clip, Bp. Fellay states: "We, I may say in the discussions, I think we see that many things which we would have condemned as being from the Council are in fact not from the Council. But the common understanding of it."

    Contrast this with what Bp. Tissier de Mallerais said in an interview with Stephen Heiner in 2006:

    S.H. So you would say the Society reads the Council in the light of the “new philosophy.”
    H.L. Exactly.
    S.H. And hence rejects it?
    H.L. That is the only way it can be read. You cannot read Vatican II as a Catholic work. It is based on the philosophy of Immanuel Kant.
    S.H. Idealism?
    H.L. Exactly, German idealism.
    S.H. So if you say that the proper way to interpret the Council is in the light of the “new philosophy,” how must the Church deal with this Council?
    H.L. I will say, one day the Church should erase this Council. She will not speak of it anymore. She must forget it. The Church will be wise if she forgets this council.
    S.H. Let me read it back to you from my notes. The Church must erase this Council, not speak of it, forget it.
    H.L. Forget it, yes. As a blank – tabula rasa.

    http://truerestoration.blogspot.ca/2006/04/interview-with-bishop-bernard-tissier.html

    Also note the articles still available on www.sspx.org, indicating a similar position to Bp. Tissier de Mallerais, such as "What are Catholics to Think of Vatican II?" which states clearly: "The Council itself both encouraged liberal trends (and its encouragement became post-conciliar Vatican policy) and departed from traditional Catholic teaching ... Our position must be:
    ...we refuse ...to follow the Rome of neo-Modernist and neo-Protestant tendencies which became clearly manifest during the Second Vatican Council and, after the Council, in all the reforms which issued from it. (Declaration of Archbishop Lefebvre, APPENDIX I)"

    FACT: In addition to this video, sspx.org also features Fr. Rostand's interview to the Remnant that states, inter alia, that "In principle Archbishop Lefebvre was not opposed to a practical agreement, but it had to be “practical.” ", you have the communique condemning the leaking of the letters, you have an article from Fr. Simoulin stating: "You can tell me as much as you want that the state of the Church is still very alarming, that our Pope has a sometimes strange theology, etc… we have said it enough, it seems to me, but you cannot tell me that the state of things is the same as in 1988 or even worse. To do so would be contrary to reality and to the truth..."

    Contrast especially Fr. Simoulin's statement with just a few recent events that exemplify the "reality and truth" of the situation:

    January 2012 - Neocatechumenal Way approved
    October 2011 - Assisi III
    September 2011 - Benedict XVI praises Martin Luther for his "deep passion and driving force"
    August 2011 - WYD - Catholic Woodstock continues, gets even worse
    November 2010 - Benedict XVI's "Light of the World" - Male Prostitute condom fiasco
    January 2010 - Benedict XVI first visit to synagogue

    ... and there has been no indication whatsoever that Rome is moving away from Vatican II at all.

    FACT: On Sunday, 13 May, Fr. Wegner, district superior for Canada, gave a sermon at the Church of the Transfiguration in Toronto, where he stated, inter alia, Bishop Fellay has done as much as or more for the S.S.P.X than Archbishop Lefebvre, and that in relation to S.S.P.X-Rome relations  “Rome was gracious enough to overlook one of our Bishops being a Holocaust denier" (if any disputes that this is a fact, contact me via email at NWansbutterEsq@gmail.com and I will provide an .wav of the sermon).

    FACT:  On 17 May, Fr. de Cacqueray, Superior of the District of France, and on 18 May Fr. Karl Stehlin, Superior of the District of Eastern Europe, released statements requesting a general abstinence from the internet until Pentecost and "that those responsible for forums accept to close them down" (sources: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=18814&min=0&num=10; http://news.fsspx.pl/?p=1055). On 17 May, Ignis Ardens, a British-based discussion forum which had been a source of news and criticism of an impending deal was shut down.

    Given the foregoing, I would suggest that one need have no recourse whatever to the secular media, nor to this supposed "rumour mill" that is being consistently condemned from positions of power within the S.S.P.X, to apprehend:

    1. THAT there has (recently) been a clear change in the official position of the Society vis-a-vis Rome and the Vatican II Council;

    2. THAT given this change, if the accusation of "causing division" within the Society is to be justly applied to anyone, it must be laid at the door of those who are now pushing positions contrary to what the S.S.P.X has consistently held through its history;

    3. THAT, given unanimous support for this new position on official S.S.P.X websites, the call for all other websites to be shut down amounts to an attempt to silence all dissent regarding this Modernist Rome-friendly position  (requests from authority, especially under the garb of religious duty, are effectively commands);

    4. THAT given the new position, and the fact it comes from Bp. Fellay himself, accompanied by constant appeals to "trust the Superior General" in whom is invested the sole responsibility for deciding whether there will be an accord with Rome, it is not rumour-mongering or tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorizing to say that an accord seems immanent; and

    5. THAT given the clear warnings expressed in the letter of Bps. de Galaretta, Tissier de Mallerais, and Williamson (http://thesensiblebond.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/letters-between-sspx-bishops-and-sspx.html), that a deal, even a "no strings attached" deal, would be mortally dangerous for Tradition in general and the S.S.P.X in particular.

    As such, I would suggest, that as in the 1960s, Catholics who see this situation unfolding must fight as we wish more of our forebears had fought in those dark days.  

    Posted on the Feast of St. Peter Celestine, Pope & Confessor, a.D. MMXII

    _________________________________________________


    POST SCRIPT: An additional fact, that is perhaps more open to interpretation and therefore listed here after the main body of the post, is the curious activities and opinions of one Maximilian Krah, legal representative of the Society of Pius X, and, according to Fr. François Laisney, "one of our [S.S.P.X] faithful". But he is also, according to moneyhouse.ch is the sole member of the managment for Dello Sarto AG, and a signatory along with Bp. Fellay, Fr. Pfluger, and (Fr?) Emeric Baudot (cf. http://www.moneyhouse.ch/en/u/p/dello_sarto_ag_CH-170.3.033.031-9.htm). So clearly an individual of some influence and certainly a trusted confidant of the S.S.P.X general council. Well, he has a blog, which he surely has a right to, but what he writes is somewhat unsuspected for a man with the above-noted credentials. His most recent post contains (with help from Google translate):

    "We stand for the right of women to look unveiled to the public, just as we defend the right of self determination of the Israelis. There can be no middle ground.Islamism wants a world without music, without a mini skirt without wine and without Israel. Belong together, because it is a closed world view. Meanwhile totalem claim we oppose the Old and New Testament, the Greek philosophy and Roman law, the scholastic learning and the art of the Renaissance, the Enlightenment and the technical and industrial revolution, human rights and the inviolability of human dignity, in short, the Christian Jewish cultural identity. Also has a comprehensive system of values. And so it goes to Jerusalem, not only in Israel but to the freedom of Europe.

    ...

    "However, I think our country [Germany], our model of coexistence, our faith and our moral values, such as the equality of women, non-negotiable and worth defending. Therefore, and due to historical reasons, I have full sympathy for Israel and fear a nuclear-armed Iran."

     (cf. http://maximiliankrah.wordpress.com/2012/05/06/krass-der-grass/)"

     
    I can certainly agree with Herr Krah about wine and music. It is troubling to me, however, that a man who holds the miniskirt and Germany's moral values as "non-negotiable and worth defending" holds individual signing authority over all of the collection plate money invested in Dello Sarto AG and has the ear of the S.S.P.X General Council besides. Whereas Bp. Williamson is treated as a dangerous fanatic by them. Is it truly wild-eyed tinfoil hat speculation to say that this is a further suggestion that the leadership of the S.S.P.X seek an accord with Rome (whose inhabitants share these values)?

    Offline Elizabeth

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    FACTS Against the "Rumours" and against...
    « Reply #1 on: May 19, 2012, 01:57:44 PM »
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  • The Crow gets to play big shot and Bp. Williamson gets the shaft.
    It's sickening beyond belief.




    Offline Wessex

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    FACTS Against the "Rumours" and against...
    « Reply #2 on: May 19, 2012, 02:20:01 PM »
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  • Krah styles himself as a new conservative which more or less corresponds with the way the leadership of the Society wants to go. His catalogue of trendy causes and pursuits are of course those of the establishment with which he does good business. As a product of East Germany, we are inclined to say that like his mentor, Angela Merkel, he has drunk greedily at the fountain of modern western culture post-unification. How does this sit alongside traditional Catholicism and the world of Lefebvre? It doesn't but once Catholics open up to the world you let in people like this and they triumph.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #3 on: May 19, 2012, 03:12:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: Wessex
    Krah styles himself as a new conservative which more or less corresponds with the way the leadership of the Society wants to go. His catalogue of trendy causes and pursuits are of course those of the establishment with which he does good business. As a product of East Germany, we are inclined to say that like his mentor, Angela Merkel, he has drunk greedily at the fountain of modern western culture post-unification. How does this sit alongside traditional Catholicism and the world of Lefebvre? It doesn't but once Catholics open up to the world you let in people like this and they triumph.


    His spiel is nakedly cynical trash, the problem is the media has such a grip on the brains of people that they can't see just how fundamental a problem this really is.  It's a Vatican II echo.  The second and third generations just won't have the necessary militancy, not living in this society.

    There are enough priests who understand what is going on though.  I wonder who provides the lionshare of money to the SSPX?

    Offline Caraffa

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    « Reply #4 on: May 19, 2012, 04:46:49 PM »
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  • Speaking of East Germany as well as infiltrators, Krah is the SSPX's version of Gunter Guillaume. It is really ironic that he becomes associated with the SSPX around the same time that Bishop Fellay wants to play Ostpolitik with Neo-Modernist Rome.  
    Pray for me, always.


    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #5 on: May 21, 2012, 09:01:48 AM »
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  • So what exactly has been done regarding Krah and 'Krahgate'? 'William of Norwich' posted material in November 2010. It's now 21st May 2012. Have those who dismissed it as "internet rumours" any comment to make? There has been adequate time for both SSPX clerics and laity to have done something.Shedding crocodile tears now is not good enough.


    Offline JPaul

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    « Reply #6 on: May 21, 2012, 09:38:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    So what exactly has been done regarding Krah and 'Krahgate'? 'William of Norwich' posted material in November 2010. It's now 21st May 2012. Have those who dismissed it as "internet rumours" any comment to make? There has been adequate time for both SSPX clerics and laity to have done something.Shedding crocodile tears now is not good enough.



    Nothing has been done!  For a man who publicly espouses the views that he does, and who is connected the rabbidly anti-Catholic groups that he support is a grave public scandal to Catholics at large and yet, nothing, not a word, not a quiet dismissal and replacement, Nothing!


    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #7 on: May 21, 2012, 10:24:27 AM »
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  • Quote from: J.Paul
    Quote from: John Grace
    So what exactly has been done regarding Krah and 'Krahgate'? 'William of Norwich' posted material in November 2010. It's now 21st May 2012. Have those who dismissed it as "internet rumours" any comment to make? There has been adequate time for both SSPX clerics and laity to have done something.Shedding crocodile tears now is not good enough.



    Nothing has been done!  For a man who publicly espouses the views that he does, and who is connected the rabbidly anti-Catholic groups that he support is a grave public scandal to Catholics at large and yet, nothing, not a word, not a quiet dismissal and replacement, Nothing!



    It's a scandal and a reflection on those who attend the SSPX. I no longer attend SSPX chapels. I have no further comment to make on 'Krahgate'. I'm sorry to have taken an interest in it. Those who attacked the Krahgate team and dismissed facts as internet rumours should hang their heads in shame.It's a disgrace that legitimate concerns were dismissed.Blind obedience and saving face came before upholding truth.


    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #8 on: May 21, 2012, 12:04:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    Quote from: J.Paul
    Quote from: John Grace
    So what exactly has been done regarding Krah and 'Krahgate'? 'William of Norwich' posted material in November 2010. It's now 21st May 2012. Have those who dismissed it as "internet rumours" any comment to make? There has been adequate time for both SSPX clerics and laity to have done something.Shedding crocodile tears now is not good enough.



    Nothing has been done!  For a man who publicly espouses the views that he does, and who is connected the rabbidly anti-Catholic groups that he support is a grave public scandal to Catholics at large and yet, nothing, not a word, not a quiet dismissal and replacement, Nothing!



    It's a scandal and a reflection on those who attend the SSPX. I no longer attend SSPX chapels.


    Some people will have no other option to receive valid sacraments.

    Offline hollingsworth

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    « Reply #9 on: May 21, 2012, 02:11:43 PM »
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  • +F interview:
    Quote
    "We, I may say in the discussions, I think we see that many things which we would have condemned as being from the Council are in fact not from the Council. But the common understanding of it."


    OK, let's have a few examples of those "many things," Bishop.  H.E. has numerous opportunities to explain fully what things he means or merely to adumbrate.  How about expanding on the theme in your next sermon, Your Excellency?  And, oh, you may want to mention in passing your relationship with Max.

    Offline Incredulous

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    « Reply #10 on: May 21, 2012, 08:49:33 PM »
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  • ___________________________________________


    POST SCRIPT: An additional fact, that is perhaps more open to interpretation and therefore listed here after the main body of the post, is the curious activities and opinions of one Maximilian Krah, legal representative of the Society of Pius X, and, according to Fr. François Laisney, "one of our [S.S.P.X] faithful". But he is also, according to moneyhouse.ch is the sole member of the managment for Dello Sarto AG, and a signatory along with Bp. Fellay, Fr. Pfluger, and (Fr?) Emeric Baudot (cf. http://www.moneyhouse.ch/en/u/p/dello_sarto_ag_CH-170.3.033.031-9.htm). So clearly an individual of some influence and certainly a trusted confidant of the S.S.P.X general council. Well, he has a blog, which he surely has a right to, but what he writes is somewhat unsuspected for a man with the above-noted credentials. His most recent post contains (with help from Google translate):

    "We stand for the right of women to look unveiled to the public, just as we defend the right of self determination of the Israelis. There can be no middle ground.Islamism wants a world without music, without a mini skirt without wine and without Israel. Belong together, because it is a closed world view. Meanwhile totalem claim we oppose the Old and New Testament, the Greek philosophy and Roman law, the scholastic learning and the art of the Renaissance, the Enlightenment and the technical and industrial revolution, human rights and the inviolability of human dignity, in short, the Christian Jewish cultural identity. Also has a comprehensive system of values. And so it goes to Jerusalem, not only in Israel but to the freedom of Europe.

    ...

    "However, I think our country [Germany], our model of coexistence, our faith and our moral values, such as the equality of women, non-negotiable and worth defending. Therefore, and due to historical reasons, I have full sympathy for Israel and fear a nuclear-armed Iran."

     (cf. http://maximiliankrah.wordpress.com/2012/05/06/krass-der-grass/)"

     
    "Tel Aviv" Max Krah,  just another chump neo-con zionist.    :cool:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline JPaul

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    « Reply #11 on: May 21, 2012, 09:46:42 PM »
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  • Quote
    in short, the Christian Jewish cultural identity



    Ah!  this must be the "new' orientation of the
    Society.  This fellow should not be anywhere near the administrators of the Society. Such poisonous ideas and concepts. What a lack of Catholic principles and judgment are demonstrated by his continued employment.

     

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