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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Tradplorable on November 12, 2017, 01:51:28 PM

Title: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Tradplorable on November 12, 2017, 01:51:28 PM

Quote
According to the CM forum:
"We found out the ex-seminarian of OLMC in question was recently ordained on his own Nov. 4, 2017 by a Bishop Adamson."


Presuming this is "Bishop" Merrill Adamson, I found this:

"Don't know anything about his "politics", but it'd be a nightmare sorting out his validity.  

He's nested into three or four "sub-consecrations" of Thuc bishops, coming from the Dattessen line.  Gaston-Lopez and Jose Urbina are involved in that lineage."
http://thetradforum.com/index.php?topic=137.0


This is for whoever it was that was too retarded to start a new thread.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: ImmaculateHeart on November 12, 2017, 02:02:03 PM
https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/denial-from-our-new-priest-to-macabees-on-cor-mariae/
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: hollingsworth on November 12, 2017, 04:30:50 PM

Quote
God bless Fr. Francis Mbadugha!
He will make a very fine and holy priest.
Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us!

Oh?  How is that? Because of the fine training and superior formation he received in Boston? :furtive:
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Clavis David on November 12, 2017, 04:58:32 PM
Oh?  How is that? Because of the fine training and superior formation he received in Boston? :furtive:
Thank goodness someone noticed the hypocrisy  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 12, 2017, 05:17:56 PM
Oh?  How is that? Because of the fine training and superior formation he received in Boston? :furtive:
Nope.
In spite of OLMC.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Clavis David on November 12, 2017, 05:22:52 PM
Nope.
In spite of OLMC.
I believe the seminarian in question spent his first few years at the SSPX seminary in Australia but saw the liberalism and wanted to join OLMC. And received the rest of his formation there. 
Apparently it was good enough for the sede bishop to feel comfortable ordaining him.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: hollingsworth on November 13, 2017, 11:05:32 AM
Quote
Oh?  How is that? Because of the fine training and superior formation he received in Boston? (https://www.cathinfo.com/Smileys/classic/furtive.gif)

Quote
Nope.
In spite of OLMC.

Oh, then maybe there is some hope for him.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Clavis David on November 13, 2017, 12:03:01 PM
You & Clavis ought to shut your traps considering you've never even met the man.
You'll just have to take the word of myself and the others who have met him that he will indeed make a very fine priest.
So angry  :soapbox:
Relax
And how do you know who has met Fr Francis and who has not? Don’t bother answering, it was only rhetorical. 
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Nooseph Polten on November 13, 2017, 01:30:21 PM
Oh?  How is that? Because of the fine training and superior formation he received in Boston? :furtive:
Boston was not the only seminary he attended.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Mithrandylan on November 13, 2017, 09:33:43 PM
I'm assuming that "ImmaculateHeart" is the ordained man in question.
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If not, he at least has a direct line to that man.
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In which case I ask, and the faithful require, that he prove his orders.  Certificates for himself and also for the six or so consecrations that occurred on the way to Merrill Adamson.  Pictures proving the events took place would be ideal. 
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He should be satisfying those minds before asking for cash.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: 1st Mansion Tenant on November 13, 2017, 10:09:51 PM
This whole thing sounds kinda hinky to me.

Just sayin'
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: ImmaculateHeart on November 14, 2017, 09:05:32 AM
Mr. Maccabees is free to continue what he is doing. Father has clarified only what is necessary, not the whole story. The whole truth is known to God, who knows all things and his conscience bears him witness, that:
1. Father always told the priests of his intentions. There are reasons why he left when he did, mostly known to the priests, one being his family.
2. He never asked anyone for orders including the Bishop who ordained him nor made any form of pledge to anyone.
3. He was ordained in accordance with the will and at the time the priest who took charge of him decided.

 - Maccabees appears to know father, but does not consider it important to listen to the other side, but rather makes an analysis precisely on the premise he denies; ie that father never sought orders by himself. This is untrue.
- How can anyone ask to leave the seminary with the right to return ? Where does this happen ?
- His decision to leave OLMC does not mean disobedience, nor him seeking anything. This is unfounded. He has his reasons which I'm sure Maccabees will not like to hear.
The priest who made the decisions concerning father and did all the work in regard to his future knows all that.
On the contrary, father contacted Bp. Zendejas only after he left, who tried to help him find a solution to his situation. Finally, he decided to remain with the priest who took him in and was also willing to help him. This is the truth.

- He threatened no one, but saddened by the falsifications after months of suffering from what OLMC tried to do to him, he stated he would be obliged to give the full account of his stay at OLMC.

Bishop Merrill Adamson, is a thuc line Bishop who was consecreted by Bishop José Urbina Anzar, who was consecrated by José Romon Lopez Gaston, himself a thuc bishop through Bishop Christian Datessen, consecrated conditionally by Archbishop Thuc.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Mithrandylan on November 14, 2017, 10:43:59 AM
Now, apparently, it comes to light there are two independent "Bishop Adamsons."
Is there some reason this new "priest" is content not to prove his "ordination" and set the record straight?
There are not two Bishop Adamson's.
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Someone in the anonymous forum posted a link to a Reverend Thomas Anderson, who is a disagraced child-molesting priest who resides in south-east Minnesota.  https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/rev-thomas-adamson/msg579054/?topicseen#msg579054
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Reverend THOMAS Anderson doesn't even claim to be a bishop, has not had an active ministry in years, and is probably at least ten if not twenty years senior of Bishop Merrill Anderson.
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It is beyond me how the OP in that thread could have confused the two, except and unless he just wanted to find the most salacious information that could be found and then pull out an enormously broad brush soaked in mud to smear all those involved.
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There's not a care in the world for truth when doing that type of thing.  Someone can be a priest, not a priest, a priest not worth going to, a bishop, not a bishop, a "bad" bishop, or whatever else without needing to bring child rape into the equation. 
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This is a confusion that should never have happened.  Even a modicuм of honest research would have very clearly distinguished a Reverend from a Bishop, a Thomas from a Merrill, a midwesterner from a wanderer, a child-molester from a non-child molester, an eighty-something year old man from a sixty-something year old man, etc.  The OP in that thread just wanted to throw a grenade and run.  Shame on them.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Mithrandylan on November 14, 2017, 10:52:10 AM
Mr. Maccabees is free to continue what he is doing. Father has clarified only what is necessary, not the whole story. The whole truth is known to God, who knows all things and his conscience bears him witness, that:
1. Father always told the priests of his intentions. There are reasons why he left when he did, mostly known to the priests, one being his family.
2. He never asked anyone for orders including the Bishop who ordained him nor made any form of pledge to anyone.
3. He was ordained in accordance with the will and at the time the priest who took charge of him decided.

 - Maccabees appears to know father, but does not consider it important to listen to the other side, but rather makes an analysis precisely on the premise he denies; ie that father never sought orders by himself. This is untrue.
- How can anyone ask to leave the seminary with the right to return ? Where does this happen ?
- His decision to leave OLMC does not mean disobedience, nor him seeking anything. This is unfounded. He has his reasons which I'm sure Maccabees will not like to hear.
The priest who made the decisions concerning father and did all the work in regard to his future knows all that.
On the contrary, father contacted Bp. Zendejas only after he left, who tried to help him find a solution to his situation. Finally, he decided to remain with the priest who took him in and was also willing to help him. This is the truth.

- He threatened no one, but saddened by the falsifications after months of suffering from what OLMC tried to do to him, he stated he would be obliged to give the full account of his stay at OLMC.

Bishop Merrill Adamson, is a thuc line Bishop who was consecreted by Bishop José Urbina Anzar, who was consecrated by José Romon Lopez Gaston, himself a thuc bishop through Bishop Christian Datessen, consecrated conditionally by Archbishop Thuc.
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Hopefully no one cares about the petty politics of Pfeifferville.  Now that the man claims to be a priest and has his own wandering ministry, that's all water under the bridge. 
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You say:
Quote
Bishop Merrill Adamson, is a thuc line Bishop who was consecreted by Bishop José Urbina Anzar, who was consecrated by José Romon Lopez Gaston, himself a thuc bishop through Bishop Christian Datessen, consecrated conditionally by Archbishop Thuc.
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Yes, that's the word around town.  That's the accepted story, without anything to back it up.  I can say that I was consecrated by them, too.  But can I prove it? 
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Can someone inform the Nigerian that there's an onus on him to be able to prove he's a priest?  Did he not learn that in seminary?  He's gone through an intricate network of very obscure Thuc bishops to get his orders, and as someone who happens to know a bit about these things, I've never seen the sort of proofs that these consecrations occurred or occurred rightly.  You can't just say "oh, don't worry about it, he's a Thuc bishop."  Lots of Thuc bishops are dubious.  The "big three"-- des Lauriers, Carmona, and Zamora-- aren't, and they aren't only because we have all the docuмenting evidence showing beyond any reasonable doubt that their consecrations happened and happened rightly, and likewise, we have that same proof for the bishops they consecrated, and the priests/bishops who were ordained/consecrated after them, etc.
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I assume that the man in question probably didn't even look into Adamson to be sure he actually was a bishop.  Do I assume rightly?  That he didn't look at Urbina, at Olivares, at Dattessen and the rest to ensure that each of those consecrations actually happened, and happened rightly?  Does he know that each of them were even capable of coming bishops, i.e., that they were actually priests beforehand?  So now he needs to go back and check.  And he needs to be ready to satisfy the faithful who rightly require moral certainty regarding the integrity of his orders.  That's his job, not ours.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 14, 2017, 11:10:44 AM
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Hopefully no one cares about the petty politics of Pfeifferville.  Now that the man claims to be a priest and has his own wandering ministry, that's all water under the bridge.  
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You say:.
Yes, that's the word around town.  That's the accepted story, without anything to back it up.  I can say that I was consecrated by them, too.  But can I prove it?  
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Can someone inform the Nigerian that there's an onus on him to be able to prove he's a priest?  Did he not learn that in seminary?  He's gone through an intricate network of very obscure Thuc bishops to get his orders, and as someone who happens to know a bit about these things, I've never seen the sort of proofs that these consecrations occurred or occurred rightly.  You can't just say "oh, don't worry about it, he's a Thuc bishop."  Lots of Thuc bishops are dubious.  The "big three"-- des Lauriers, Carmona, and Zamora-- aren't, and they aren't only because we have all the docuмenting evidence showing beyond any reasonable doubt that their consecrations happened and happened rightly, and likewise, we have that same proof for the bishops they consecrated, and the priests/bishops who were ordained/consecrated after them, etc.
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I assume that the man in question probably didn't even look into Adamson to be sure he actually was a bishop.  Do I assume rightly?  That he didn't look at Urbina, at Olivares, at Dattessen and the rest to ensure that each of those consecrations actually happened, and happened rightly?  Does he know that each of them were even capable of coming bishops, i.e., that they were actually priests beforehand?  So now he needs to go back and check.  And he needs to be ready to satisfy the faithful who rightly require moral certainty regarding the integrity of his orders.  That's his job, not ours.
How in the wide world of sports does someone give a thumb down to this post???
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 14, 2017, 12:49:03 PM
Nobody realizes that its uncanonical to reveal in  public, affairs of the internal forum of seminary life, as OLMC has done. Its up to them to deny anything untrue publicly said about them, but not reveal things about seminarians.
Can I take this as a refusal from Francis to demonstrate the validity of his ordination?
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Pax Vobis on November 14, 2017, 01:08:32 PM
I'd be happy to donate $, but in this day and age, ordinations must be proved, especially when they occur outside of a formal seminary.  This is not an attack on the bishop or the seminarian - it is a matter of both justice and church law.  Justice, because the laity has a right to know who's a priest and who isn't.  Church law, because the church is a VISIBLE organization, whose members are VISIBLE and so are its priests.  You can't get ordained in secret.  And even if it wasn't secret, if it happened irregularly (i.e. outside a seminary) then that's not exactly public, which I would say is a requirement, on some level...especially in our crazy days.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 14, 2017, 01:53:20 PM
Nope.
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Nope rhymes with dope, grope, snope, rope, mope, soap and heliotrope.
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Mithrandylan on November 14, 2017, 01:53:28 PM
Nobody realizes that its uncanonical to reveal in  public, affairs of the internal forum of seminary life, as OLMC has done. Its up to them to deny anything untrue publicly said about them, but not reveal things about seminarians.
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You are a piece of work, or at least the script you've been given is!
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You're not using the expression "internal forum" correctly.  "Internal forum" isn't a synonym for "what happens behind closed [seminary] doors."
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And whatever the matter, there's nothing "uncanonical" about revealing... whatever it is you think they've revealed about their seminary life, mainly because their seminary isn't canonical in the first place!  But also because there aren't canonical laws about that type of thing anyways.

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Do you/your handler think that it suffices for you to be contra-Pfeiffer and tangentially "pro-resistance?"  That the combination of these facts will overcome the faithful and set aside any legitimate concerns about Francis' fitness for the priesthood and validity of orders?  Interesting strategy, and it unfortunately it may be enough for some to commence kissing hands.  All the more reason for skeptics to rally and demand proofs which shouldn't have to be asked for in the first place.
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It's not difficult.  Just get a free blog (there are loads out there) and upload all the docuмentation. 
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 14, 2017, 02:02:09 PM
Nobody realizes that its uncanonical to reveal in  public, affairs of the internal forum of seminary life, as OLMC has done. Its up to them to deny anything untrue publicly said about them, but not reveal things about seminarians.
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Who gave you the copy and commanded you to make this post? Who wrote it for you?
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 14, 2017, 02:43:07 PM

Quote from: SeanJohnson on Today at 06:35:43 AM (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/ex-olmc-seminarian-ordained/msg579017/#msg579017)
Quote
Now, apparently, it comes to light there are two independent "Bishop Adamsons."
Is there some reason this new "priest" is content not to prove his "ordination" and set the record straight?

There are not two Bishop Adamson's.  [not two Bishop Adamson's what? Cassocks? Records? Phone numbers?]
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Someone in the anonymous forum posted a link to a Reverend Thomas Anderson, who is a disagraced child-molesting priest who resides in south-east Minnesota.  https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/rev-thomas-adamson/msg579054/?topicseen#msg579054
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Reverend THOMAS Anderson doesn't even claim to be a bishop, has not had an active ministry in years, and is probably at least ten if not twenty years senior of Bishop Merrill Anderson.
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It is beyond me how the OP in that thread could have confused the two, except and unless he just wanted to find the most salacious information that could be found and then pull out an enormously broad brush soaked in mud to smear all those involved.
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There's not a care in the world for truth when doing that type of thing.  Someone can be a priest, not a priest, a priest not worth going to, a bishop, not a bishop, a "bad" bishop, or whatever else without needing to bring child rape into the equation.  
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This is a confusion that should never have happened.  Even a modicuм of honest research would have very clearly distinguished a Reverend from a Bishop, a Thomas from a Merrill, a midwesterner from a wanderer, a child-molester from a non-child molester, an eighty-something year old man from a sixty-something year old man, etc.  The OP in that thread just wanted to throw a grenade and run.  Shame on them.
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Does everyone simply ignore the fact that Anderson and Adamson are not the same names?
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Or are which letters to use in spelling a name as unimportant as whether to use a possessive case apostrophe or not?
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Mithrandylan on November 14, 2017, 02:52:49 PM
Neil, that's my bad.  Have Scandanavia on the brain.  There is no Anderson in the equation.  Thomas Adamson is the name of the child molesting priest who has nothing to do with the Thuc bishop Merrill Adamson.

I am surprised at how consistently I gave the name Anderson. 
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Maria Regina on November 14, 2017, 02:56:05 PM
There are not two Bishop Adamson's.  [not two Bishop Adamson's what? Cassocks? Records? Phone numbers?]
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Someone in the anonymous forum posted a link to a Reverend Thomas Anderson, who is a disagraced child-molesting priest who resides in south-east Minnesota.  https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/rev-thomas-adamson/msg579054/?topicseen#msg579054
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Reverend THOMAS Anderson doesn't even claim to be a bishop, has not had an active ministry in years, and is probably at least ten if not twenty years senior of Bishop Merrill Anderson.
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It is beyond me how the OP in that thread could have confused the two, except and unless he just wanted to find the most salacious information that could be found and then pull out an enormously broad brush soaked in mud to smear all those involved.
.
There's not a care in the world for truth when doing that type of thing.  Someone can be a priest, not a priest, a priest not worth going to, a bishop, not a bishop, a "bad" bishop, or whatever else without needing to bring child rape into the equation.  
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This is a confusion that should never have happened.  Even a modicuм of honest research would have very clearly distinguished a Reverend from a Bishop, a Thomas from a Merrill, a midwesterner from a wanderer, a child-molester from a non-child molester, an eighty-something year old man from a sixty-something year old man, etc.  The OP in that thread just wanted to throw a grenade and run.  Shame on them.

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Does everyone simply ignore the fact that Anderson and Adamson are not the same names?
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Or are which letters to use in spelling a name as unimportant as whether to use a possessive case apostrophe or not?
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Thank you for pointing this out.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 14, 2017, 03:14:38 PM
As someone in a private email replied, it speaks very poorly of this Francis' judgment that he opted to go to Boston at all.

And, if you are to believe Yoda over at the Playpen, apparently this same Francis tried to get "ordained" by "Bishop" Bill, evincing even worse judgment.

[Interesting side-note: Apparently the Sect still maintains that Bill is a bishop, but don't worry about your invalid sacraments from imposter clerics, worry about +BW!]

Given these two moronic decisions which nobody with an ounce of common sense would make, it is almost certain this Francis never bothered to investigate the episcopal (or priestly) lineage he sought orders from.

Where can I send money again?
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 14, 2017, 03:19:53 PM
Neil, that's my bad.  Have Scandanavia on the brain.  [Do you drive a Volvo? HAHAHA]

There is no Anderson in the equation.  Thomas Adamson is the name of the child molesting priest who has nothing to do with the Thuc bishop Merrill Adamson.

I am surprised at how consistently I gave the name Anderson.
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Congratulations, Mithrandylan, for the honest humility to own up to this glaring mistake. It takes a real man to take responsibility like that. (Not sure what that means for Trump!)  The two names had me running loops trying to figure out where the problem came from. 
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You forgot to include Andersen -- but let's not even go there.
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 14, 2017, 03:26:41 PM
As someone in a private email replied, it speaks very poorly of this Francis' judgment that he opted to go to Boston at all.

And, if you are to believe Yoda over at the Playpen, apparently this same Francis tried to get "ordained" by "Bishop" Bill, evincing even worse judgment.
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Are you referring to the so-called bishop William Moran?
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Quote
[Interesting side-note: Apparently the Sect still maintains that Bill is a bishop, but don't worry about your invalid sacraments from imposter clerics, worry about +BW!]

Given these two moronic decisions which nobody with an ounce of common sense would make, it is almost certain this Francis never bothered to investigate the episcopal (or priestly) lineage he sought orders from.

Where can I send money again?
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But doesn't ImmaculateHeart attempt to assure everyone that "this Francis" did not seek orders from anyone, ever?
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Or did I misunderstand her message somehow?
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 14, 2017, 03:48:13 PM
Mr. Maccabees is free to continue what he is doing. Father has clarified only what is necessary, not the whole story. The whole truth is known to God, who knows all things and his conscience bears him witness, that:
1. Father always told the priests of his intentions. There are reasons why he left when he did, mostly known to the priests, one being his family.
2. He never asked anyone for orders including the Bishop who ordained him nor made any form of pledge to anyone.
3. He was ordained in accordance with the will and at the time the priest who took charge of him decided.

 - Maccabees appears to know father, but does not consider it important to listen to the other side, but rather makes an analysis precisely on the premise he denies; ie that father never sought orders by himself. This is untrue.
- How can anyone ask to leave the seminary with the right to return ? Where does this happen ?
- His decision to leave OLMC does not mean disobedience, nor him seeking anything. This is unfounded. He has his reasons which I'm sure Maccabees will not like to hear.
The priest who made the decisions concerning father and did all the work in regard to his future knows all that.
On the contrary, father contacted Bp. Zendejas only after he left, who tried to help him find a solution to his situation. Finally, he decided to remain with the priest who took him in and was also willing to help him. This is the truth.
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Re-reading it now I see ImmaculateHeart says Francis never asked anyone for orders, one minute, then says it is untrue "that father never sought orders by himself" the next. So it could be an innocent error but it reads like a self-contradiction. In any case it needs to become clarified.
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Notice how "but rather makes an analysis precisely on the premise he denies" is an objectively meaningless phrase. It could equally apply to analyzing the premise (making an analysis on the premise) or to denying the premise upon which the analysis depends. The sentence later, "This is untrue," could apply to any of several propositions that preceded it. Is the reader left with the task of presuming to judge correctly as far as to which proposition the untruthfulness should apply?
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Quote
- He threatened no one, but saddened by the falsifications after months of suffering from what OLMC tried to do to him, he stated he would be obliged to give the full account of his stay at OLMC.

Bishop Merrill Adamson, is a thuc [Thuc] line Bishop who was consecreted by Bishop José Urbina Anzar, who was consecrated by José Romon Lopez Gaston, himself a thuc [Thuc] bishop through Bishop Christian Datessen, consecrated conditionally by Archbishop Thuc.
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"What OLMC tried to do to him" is never explained. Did OLMC try to do something to him? Like provide ordination from "bishop" Bill?
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 14, 2017, 03:57:30 PM
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This whole topic is a quagmire of ambiguity. And the questions are just beginning. Imagine asking these questions after the new priest has heard about 50 sacramental confessions!
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According to Church teaching a priest who is conditionally re-ordained needs to seek out all the penitents the confessions of whom he has heard before being conditionally re-ordained, so that he can tell them they need to repeat their confession as well as add any new sins committed after that time, including any Holy Communions received if there had been mortal sins confessed the first time which may therefore not have been properly absolved.
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 14, 2017, 04:14:18 PM
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This whole topic is a quagmire of ambiguity. And the questions are just beginning. Imagine asking these questions after the new priest has heard about 50 sacramental confessions!
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According to Church teaching a priest who is conditionally re-ordained needs to seek out all the penitents the confessions of whom he has heard before being conditionally re-ordained, so that he can tell them they need to repeat their confession as well as add any new sins committed after that time, including any Holy Communions received if there had been mortal sins confessed the first time which may therefore not have been properly absolved.
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How does a priest figure out whose confessions he has heard?

As regards past confessions to an invalidly ordained priest, so long as the same penitent made a good confession to a validly ordained priest later, it is not necessary to revisit the previous matter from the invalid confessions ("ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis...").

But, think of the rock and a hard place one would be in who mistakenly confesses to an imposter, then dies:

Supplied jurisdiction only covers jurisdiction, not orders (i.e., that person's sins would not be absolved); perfect contrition would have been their only hope.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 14, 2017, 04:22:06 PM
...and that is why this whole matter is worth discussing!
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 14, 2017, 05:21:45 PM
How does a priest figure out whose confessions he has heard?
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Exactly.  (Could there be something to the new fad of face-to-face "Reconciliation?")
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Quote
As regards past confessions to an invalidly ordained priest, so long as the same penitent made a good confession to a validly ordained priest later, it is not necessary to revisit the previous matter from the invalid confessions ("ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis...").

But, think of the rock and a hard place one would be in [between] who mistakenly confesses to an imposter, then dies:

Supplied jurisdiction only covers jurisdiction, not orders (i.e., that person's sins would not be absolved); perfect contrition would have been their only hope.
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Making a good confession to a validly ordained priest later is nice, but what about the mortal sins confessed to the impostor without perfect contrition and not repeated later to a real priest?
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That's why it's incuмbent on the conditionally re-ordained priest to at least attempt to go out and make known to everyone who might have confessed to him before he was re-ordained that they should recall the serious sins they had thought were absolved and confess them again to a good priest. It's always a good idea to recall past sins that you think were absolved and confess them again, anyway. 
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In the end, perfect contrition covers a wide swath of problems, but perfect contrition is far from a simple matter. 
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It is a principle that ought to be the focus of every catechism class, to make your entire life a continuous effort to attain perfect contrition. Some students might think the confessor would be bored with penitents who have perfect contrition, but that's not so. Every priest would very much love to have a line-up of penitents at his confessional all of whom could go straight to heaven without confessing their sins to him! Perfect contrition is what we ought to be striving for every day. It is a great goal and an enormous challenge.
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There are books to read to help one learn how to achieve perfect contrition. They are great reading material, and it's really simple to get a firm grip of the state of your soul by seeing if you would dare take the book off the shelf and read it --- again!
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St. Alfonse de Liguori's Preparation for Death is a good example, and Fr. Schouppe's Purgatory is another.
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Fr. Martin von Cochem's Death, Judgment, Heaven, Hell.
(http://www.catholictradition.org/Classics/4last-banner.jpg)          
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: ImmaculateHeart on November 14, 2017, 09:41:37 PM
I'd be happy to donate $, but in this day and age, ordinations must be proved, especially when they occur outside of a formal seminary.  This is not an attack on the bishop or the seminarian - it is a matter of both justice and church law.  Justice, because the laity has a right to know who's a priest and who isn't.  Church law, because the church is a VISIBLE organization, whose members are VISIBLE and so are its priests.  You can't get ordained in secret.  And even if it wasn't secret, if it happened irregularly (i.e. outside a seminary) then that's not exactly public, which I would say is a requirement, on some level...especially in our crazy days.
Bishop Adamson acts publicly, and is recognized as such, though not with a huge congregation. Attached are some photos which are online showing his public presence.  Attached are also two photos of father's ordination.  The rest will be posted in due time.

Please remember, the financial  information has been posted simply because some have asked for it. Nothing more.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Mithrandylan on November 14, 2017, 10:03:15 PM
Good stuff, IH.  So Adamson definitely performed the ceremony. Just waiting for the info on him and his consecrators now. 
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 14, 2017, 10:27:35 PM
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Are you referring to the so-called bishop William Moran?
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Mistake. I meant Ambrose Moran. But why would that be "bishop Bill?"
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 14, 2017, 10:37:48 PM
Good stuff, IH.  So Adamson definitely performed the ceremony. Just waiting for the info on him and his consecrators now.
Doesn't take much to find what you are looking for.

Many photos and all the information here:
https://cubacatolica.wordpress.com/linajes-episcopales/linaje-de-mons-dinhthuc-1897-1984/mons-datessen-1934/
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 14, 2017, 10:40:14 PM
Bishop Adamson acts publicly, and is recognized as such, though not with a huge congregation. Attached are some photos which are online showing his public presence.  Attached are also two photos of father's ordination.  The rest will be posted in due time.

Please remember, the financial  information has been posted simply because some have asked for it. Nothing more.
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I did a quick search for Bishop Merrill Adamson and the only mention of his name on the Internet except for these two CI posts is this site here:
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http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Thuc_Consecrations.html
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When I traveled in Mexico 35 years ago adventurous fellow travelers told me that Merida, Mexico was a place of mysterious and ancient paranormal activities and happenings. They were very impressed by the activity of spirits in Merida, Yucatan.
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 14, 2017, 10:51:07 PM
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Some glitch deleted part of my message, above. Should have had this:

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http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Thuc_Consecrations.html
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 14, 2017, 11:06:10 PM
Doesn't take much to find what you are looking for.

Many photos and all the information here:
https://cubacatolica.wordpress.com/linajes-episcopales/linaje-de-mons-dinhthuc-1897-1984/mons-datessen-1934/
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Doesn't take much? Do you read Spanish? That page didn't turn up in my searches, but I wasn't looking for Spanish.
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: 1st Mansion Tenant on November 15, 2017, 01:21:45 AM
If Bishop Adamson is a legit RC bishop willing to ordain resistance priests, then why did OLMC resort to Ambrose?  Is he a sede? Surely when Fr P was beating the bushes for a more co-operative bishop he didn't pass over a RC for an Orthodox? Somethings fishy...
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Mithrandylan on November 15, 2017, 08:21:27 AM
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Doesn't take much? Do you read Spanish? That page didn't turn up in my searches, but I wasn't looking for Spanish.
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No kidding. 
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But more than that, we already have proof that these people say, act, or are regarded by some as having valid Episcopal orders. 
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We're looking for information that proves they actually DO.  Certificates, pictures from the ceremonies, credible witnesses, etc. Them wearing bishop's clothing and the like is not such a proof. 
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 15, 2017, 09:10:41 AM
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No kidding.
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But more than that, we already have proof that these people say, act, or are regarded by some as having valid Episcopal orders.
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We're looking for information that proves they actually DO.  Certificates, pictures from the ceremonies, credible witnesses, etc. Them wearing bishop's clothing and the like is not such a proof.
Seriously?  You DO this to priests and bishops?  It is no wonder you have such a hard time finding them.  Who wants to be put through the wringer even before you become his flock?  I doubt many legitimate priests or bishops have docuмents or photos of their ENTIRE lineage. 
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 15, 2017, 09:15:20 AM
If Bishop Adamson is a legit RC bishop willing to ordain resistance priests, then why did OLMC resort to Ambrose?  Is he a sede? Surely when Fr P was beating the bushes for a more co-operative bishop he didn't pass over a RC for an Orthodox? Somethings fishy...
I think you will have to ask Fr. Pf, but it does give one pause...
Yes, Adamson is sede. 
Who wants to work with Fr. Pf and get beat up?
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Mithrandylan on November 15, 2017, 09:50:38 AM
Seriously?  You DO this to priests and bishops?  It is no wonder you have such a hard time finding them.  Who wants to be put through the wringer even before you become his flock?  I doubt many legitimate priests or bishops have docuмents or photos of their ENTIRE lineage.
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Who said I had a hard time finding them?  It's remarkably easy, because with the more respectable of the traditionalist clergy, this information is quite easy to procure.
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Nor will I "become" his flock.  Because a) the very fact that he thought Pfeifferville was a good place to be formed as a Catholic priest is a major indictment on his judgment, b) Catholics do not, contrary to common believe "choose" pastors, but have pastors sent from the Church-- what we do is prudentially decide, from one priest to the next, whether to avail ourselves of sacraments he can confect, despite his status as a complete non-pastor (a pastor is someone with jurisdiction to whom has been given the care of a certain flock by the authority of the ordinary), and c) I would never patronize a man who couldn't prove his orders, since even if everything else checks out, if he can't make real sacraments then he's not of much use as a priest, is he?
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The request is not for docuмentation of their entire lineage, the request is for docuмentation for whatever part of their lineage that occurs outside the supervision and explicit approval of the Church. 
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Nor are any of these priests or bishops legitimate.  That's the whole point, Fanny.  None of them "come from the Church."  They've all, down to the last man, procured their training, sacraments of orders, and exercise their ministry outside of the Church's framework established for doing so.  If they didn't, there'd be no need to ask!  But they have, and that's that, but as a consequence, we do not have this blanket presumption of validity that can be extended to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who says "don't worry, I have Thuc lineage." 
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Even if these men were fully legitimate, the onus is still on them to prove it, even in ordinary times. That's why the celebret is such a big deal.  Priests would carry it with them always.
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If this is uncomfortable for certain priests, I don't know what to say except "too bad."  The belief that a man who claims to be a priest has a right for people to believe him without proof is anarchic and tyrannical.  Faithful are within their rights, indeed they are duty-bound to know whether the man they are patronizing is really a priest-- asking for such proofs is not trouble-making, but playing fast and loose in providing them is.
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For my part, it doesn't look like it ever occurred to Francis that he should make sure that Adamson was a bishop (that is, beyond just looking it up on the Internet to see if people called him bishop).  It's nice that he had the decency to docuмent his own ceremony.  Good for him.  But that's just one piece of the pie.  If he can show that Adamson is a bishop (which requires showing that everyone who "led up" to him was a bishop), then he checks out, and at least the single most important condition is met: the man's a valid priest.  Still lots of considerations after that (does he believe rightly, is he of sound judgment, and whatever other conditions a person finds prudent to have met when deciding whether or not to avail himself of the priest's services).  But at least the most important condition is met, and people at least know of one other priest they can call on their deathbed.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 15, 2017, 10:06:39 AM
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Who said I had a hard time finding them?  It's remarkably easy, because with the more respectable of the traditionalist clergy, this information is quite easy to procure.
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Nor will I "become" his flock.  Because a) the very fact that he thought Pfeifferville was a good place to be formed as a Catholic priest is a major indictment on his judgment, b) Catholics do not, contrary to common believe "choose" pastors, but have pastors sent from the Church-- what we do is prudentially decide, from one priest to the next, whether to avail ourselves of sacraments he can confect, despite his status as a complete non-pastor (a pastor is someone with jurisdiction to whom has been given the care of a certain flock by the authority of the ordinary), and c) I would never patronize a man who couldn't prove his orders, since even if everything else checks out, if he can't make real sacraments then he's not of much use as a priest, is he?
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The request is not for docuмentation of their entire lineage, the request is for docuмentation for whatever part of their lineage that occurs outside the supervision and explicit approval of the Church.  
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Nor are any of these priests or bishops legitimate.  That's the whole point, Fanny.  None of them "come from the Church."  They've all, down to the last man, procured their training, sacraments of orders, and exercise their ministry outside of the Church's framework established for doing so.  If they didn't, there'd be no need to ask!  But they have, and that's that, but as a consequence, we do not have this blanket presumption of validity that can be extended to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who says "don't worry, I have Thuc lineage."  
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Even if these men were fully legitimate, the onus is still on them to prove it, even in ordinary times. That's why the celebret is such a big deal.  Priests would carry it with them always.
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If this is uncomfortable for certain priests, I don't know what to say except "too bad."  The belief that a man who claims to be a priest has a right for people to believe him without proof is anarchic and tyrannical.  Faithful are within their rights, indeed they are duty-bound to know whether the man they are patronizing is really a priest-- asking for such proofs is not trouble-making, but playing fast and loose in providing them is.
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For my part, it doesn't look like it ever occurred to Francis that he should make sure that Adamson was a bishop (that is, beyond just looking it up on the Internet to see if people called him bishop).  It's nice that he had the decency to docuмent his own ceremony.  Good for him.  But that's just one piece of the pie.  If he can show that Adamson is a bishop (which requires showing that everyone who "led up" to him was a bishop), then he checks out, and at least the single most important condition is met: the man's a valid priest.  Still lots of considerations after that (does he believe rightly, is he of sound judgment, and whatever other conditions a person finds prudent to have met when deciding whether or not to avail himself of the priest's services).  But at least the most important condition is met, and people at least know of one other priest they can call on their deathbed.
:applause:
If this post was any more right, it would be wrong.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 16, 2017, 07:14:36 AM
I'd be happy to donate $, but in this day and age, ordinations must be proved, especially when they occur outside of a formal seminary.  This is not an attack on the bishop or the seminarian - it is a matter of both justice and church law.  Justice, because the laity has a right to know who's a priest and who isn't.  Church law, because the church is a VISIBLE organization, whose members are VISIBLE and so are its priests.  You can't get ordained in secret.  And even if it wasn't secret, if it happened irregularly (i.e. outside a seminary) then that's not exactly public, which I would say is a requirement, on some level...especially in our crazy days.
This is correct. 
Also, Mithrandylan's last post is PURE CATHOLIC GOLD on this matter.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 16, 2017, 07:21:42 AM
We're having some of the same arguments we had back during the Ambrose Moran debacle (God has blessed me with a good memory, which I am trying to use for good purposes, like the welfare of the faithful remnant of Traditional Catholics everywhere)

Some people think it's "mean" or "uncharitable" to put prospective priests or bishops "through the ringer" -- but that is not Catholic thought. That is sentimentalism (if it's the layman's idea) and if such thinking comes from the priest/bishop himself, it's cultism and tyranny.

We normally don't put priests through the ringer IN NORMAL TIMES. When everything is done officially by the Church, then it's all none of our business. A priest shows up, we submit to him. That is healthy and Catholic -- in normal times. Might I point out that complete submission to the Pope is also normally a healthy Catholic behavior? But again, these are not normal times. Hello, McFly!!!

Words "Crisis in the Church" mean anything to you??

When priests get formed, trained, ordained outside official structures, the Faithful need certainty about their priests. In fact, one of the main justifications for the Traditional movement is that the Faithful have a God-given right to 100% certain Sacraments, and Sacraments that won't risk or tend to destroy their Faith itself. One can argue about the validity of Novus Ordo Masses and sacraments, but one CANNOT say that Novus Ordo ordinations/Masses/sacraments are 100% certain. And that alone is enough reason to leave them by the wayside and seek out true Sacraments from traditional priests wherever they can get them -- which is basically the charter and foundation of the Traditional Movement.

If you confess a mortal sin to an "impostor", or a man who is not a priest (though he might look and act like one), that sin is not forgiven. We're talking about more than just life and death here, folks. We're talking about eternal heaven and hell!

So yes, it's important, and any well-trained priest would be the first to agree with me, Mithrandylan, and Sean Johnson. I notice all the ex-seminarians are lining up behind Mithrandylan's last post...
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 16, 2017, 07:33:14 AM
P.S. That is why the SSPX was so awesome. THAT is why it was so huge, an order of magnitude larger than any other Trad group. (and why Rome isn't even interested in any other Trad group -- they're all too small to worry about).The SSPX did an excellent job of "horizontal integration" setting up chapels, schools, and seminaries which produced many priests. And priests were publicly ordained every year, by 4 Trad bishops that everyone knew about. The pedigree was certain.

When you went to an SSPX Mass center, you knew what you were getting. Yes, there were a few bad apples I'm sure, but for the most part they all received the same excellent training and were excellent in the confessional and pulpit. But even the not-so-great ones had certainly valid orders, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

(I heard a first hand report about an SSPX priest who told a young man that he regretted becoming a priest, and discouraged the young man from pursuing that path. He took off his cassock right after Mass, and wanted to go have some kind of fun, I forgot what place he wanted to go to. At any rate, this was at a minor SSPX chapel in the USA.) I was shocked BECAUSE this story was so out of the ordinary. 

SSPX priests may not have been perfect, but it was "a brand you could trust" (at least before 2012), know what I mean? They all went through the same curriculum, the same scrutiny, were ordained by the same 4 valid bishops, etc.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 16, 2017, 07:38:07 AM
If Fr. Francis isn't the first to want to prove his Consecrator's validity, or doesn't understand why we Traditional Catholics are concerned with such, then he obviously received an inferior Seminary training, and perhaps it's best that we collectively allocate this priest to deathbeds and emergencies only (when no other priest is available)...

As Mithrandylan also wisely pointed out, validity is the most important concern. But even if that were proven (which it hasn't been), there is still the huge elephant in the room -- this priest's foolish choice of OLMC "seminary" for his priestly training.

And don't give me, "Come on, what choice did he have?"

If he had opted to self-study with a pile of pre-Vatican II Catholic books (the Summa, Denzinger, The Spiritual Life by Fr. Tanqueray, moral theology, all the classics written by saints, etc.) and did an apprenticeship with some bishop or priest, then I would have WAY more respect for his judgement, intellect, and wisdom.

But OLMC? Seriously? Who gives a place like that respect enough to spend several years there? It's a complete joke to anyone with a brain. I mean, this man was bossed around by Pablo for years. He drank the Pfeifferville Kool-aid for years. And he stayed for a long time! He thought it was appropriate and fine for an apostate, superstitious man (with no seminary or theological training whatsoever) to regularly be in charge of a seminary.

That speaks to a certain deficiency.

To give JUST ONE example of Pfeifferville Kool-aid which any normal intellect would gag on: "Bishop Williamson and Bishop Zendejas are bad. But Ambrose Moran is good!"  and let's not forget, "All ye true Traditional Catholics: you must only attend Mass by Fr. Pfeiffer, Fr. Hewko, or a priest on good terms with us. After all, we ARE the Church!" I don't care if he actually said those very words; that is precisely his doctrine, proven by his countless words and actions.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 16, 2017, 08:03:40 AM
And again, we talked about this during the Ambrose Moran debacle, but where was this bishop last year? Why is he so off-the-radar, even for decades-long Traditional Catholics who are extremely well informed?
Is it because his lineage is somewhat dubious?

Also, I'd like to underline what Mithrandylan said: just saying "I'm a Thuc bishop. You're a sedevacantist. So you should like and trust me!" is NOT sufficient due diligence for the priest OR the layman involved.
There are way too many Thuc bishops with varying degrees of certainty. Even if I were a flaming, home alone, dogmatic sedevacantist I wouldn't be so foolish as to treat "Thuc-line bishop" as a blank check or immediate ticket to my trust.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 16, 2017, 08:25:01 AM
P.S.

Knowing the Internet population, I have to make everything explicit.

I have nothing against Fr. Francis personally. This is all about Catholic doctrine. I'm sure he's very "nithe" and says his prayers. I'm sure he's very pious.

But I'm with St. Teresa of Avila on this matter -- she would rather have a LEARNED spiritual director than a PIOUS one. And in 2017 she'd be even more adamant about it. In this confusing world with a Crisis in the Church, we need wise, prudent priests, priests of sound judgment. Priests who can untangle in the confessional the complicated matters we laymen have to deal with. Priests who can guide us through this wilderness -- to help us be as wise as serpents but simple as doves. Priests to point out all the traps and deceptions of the devil during this time of "diabolical disorientation".

Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: JPaul on November 16, 2017, 08:42:56 AM
We see and admit to the grave importance of validity when dealing with the Priesthood. And so much has been offered in these last posts as to the necessity of obtaining an adequate amount of certainty of a priest's validity before proceeding.

This brings directly to light the New York debacle and the unsound advice which issued forth from it.

When giving Catholics an opening to attend the Novus Ordo and recieve its miraculous sacraments, it appears that there was no talk of acertaining a New Order priest's proof of validity before going there.
What seemed to qualify as sufficient is how the priest appeared to celebrate the "mass".

The validity of any given conciliar priest is suspect in that there is no way to know who is and who isn't a priest without properly researching his background.  So if validity is of such high importance(and it is), why on Earth was that not spoken of as a pre-requisite for attending an illicit service in which there is a known danger of invalidity?  How does that square with what is being said here about the importance of validity, and when there is no less a question or a doubt generated by a Novus ordo ordination than there might be by an Ambrose Moran ordination.

This is clearly a double standard which is at work here, and such a standard relies upon only part of the truth being presented. It cannot work when the whole of the truth is considered because it is exposed for what it is.

Contradiction and double standards have always been employed by SSPX factions, one against the other, when they come into conflict. And it brings nothing but confusion and emnities among the Faithful who simply seek to save their souls and please thier God.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 16, 2017, 10:10:24 AM
Excellent 2007 SSPX article on conditional ordination:

http://sspx.org/en/must-priests-who-come-tradition-be-re-ordained
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Wessex on November 16, 2017, 11:33:42 AM
Questions of validity of priests was always a hot topic way back in the 80s and 90s when the SSPX tried to force NO clergy on the laity only to be told by superiors that they were intolerant. The laity back then were made of stronger stuff and had a veto on who was acceptable. I am speaking of the UK which was not a pushover just because the Society provided many of the Latin Masses available. The politics of the Society and its tedious off-on relations with Rome may have been over the heads of those merely wanting Sunday continuity but for those who were eagle-eyed the games it liked to play meant there was always trouble brewing. I do not recognise an SSPX that was ever "awesome" and stable. The web was full of stories of its priests fleeing during the early hours and as many departed as joined because of its pompous 'right to rule' attitude and intolerable management style. Without going into its doctrinal contradictions and money-grabbing activities, attending a parallel church without any credibly clear objective may have been a short-term refuge from a Rome that was defecting but long-term would lead to horrendous problems that continue today. The truth is SSPXism does not know what it is and where it is going.    
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 16, 2017, 11:54:20 AM
I don't think it necessarily has to do with dubious lineage. I have personally come across two independent priests over the years in the USA that I would wager you and nobody else here at CI knows about. They were just old, Novus Ordo priests who left the N.O. and went out on their own sometime after VII. I wonder who confirms their faithful? There's probably others.
Well said. 
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 16, 2017, 12:02:41 PM
I don't think it necessarily has to do with dubious lineage. I have personally come across two independent priests over the years in the USA that I would wager you and nobody else here at CI knows about. They were just old, Novus Ordo priests who left the N.O. and went out on their own sometime after VII. I wonder who confirms their faithful? There's probably others.
That's great, I don't deny that, and good for them.
However, such obscure bishops-under-rocks still need to prove themselves to their prospective Faithful. The onus is on THEM to prove they are legit. That is the mind of the Church in this matter.
That much is not open for debate.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 16, 2017, 12:15:17 PM
Yes, Matthew, but to what extent?
In my dealings with priests, I ask for lineage, confirm lineage, and evaluate.  I dont ask them for docuмentation proving that the ceremonies of his bishop up through the pre-vat II bishop occurred.

Now, I would assume a priest/prior would check the lineage docuмentation of a boshop for his seminarians.  Do the seminarians really have a choice of bishop?  No.  If fr. Chazal calls in Moran to ordain his seminarians, do the seminarians have a choice in the matter?  I guess they could leave, but they are supposed to trust father prior's judgement.

It seems to me that fr. Mbadugha answered the question when IH said that he obeyed the priest he was working under.  The lineage was provided.  If you are so inclined, one could, himself, contact b. Adamson and ask for proof.  But the rest of us should, as fr. M did, assume that fr. M's superior did his homework and verified the lineage via docuмentation.

Also, it was said that fr. M tried several times to leave OLMC.  Why he wanted to leave and why he stayed you will have to ask him.  Why he went to OLMC in the first place, you will have to ask him.  

Perhaps rather than jumping to conclusions and causing detraction and/or scandal you should ask Fr. M your questions
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 16, 2017, 12:22:42 PM
Yes, Matthew, but to what extent?
In my dealings with priests, I ask for lineage, confirm lineage, and evaluate.  I dont ask them for docuмentation proving that the ceremonies of his bishop up through the pre-vat II bishop occurred.

Now, I would assume a priest/prior would check the lineage docuмentation of a boshop for his seminarians.  Do the seminarians really have a choice of bishop?  No.  If fr. Chazal calls in Moran to ordain his seminarians, do the seminarians have a choice in the matter?  I guess they could leave, but they are supposed to trust father prior's judgement.

It seems to me that fr. Mbadugha answered the question when IH said that he obeyed the priest he was working under.  The lineage was provided.  If you are so inclined, one could, himself, contact b. Adamson and ask for proof.  But the rest of us should, as fr. M did, assume that fr. M's superior did his homework and verified the lineage via docuмentation.

Also, it was said that fr. M tried several times to leave OLMC.  Why he wanted to leave and why he stayed you will have to ask him.  Why he went to OLMC in the first place, you will have to ask him.  

Perhaps rather than jumping to conclusions and causing detraction and/or scandal you should ask Fr. M your questions
Disagree:

Until such time as this priest can demonstrate the validity of his ordination (and Bishop Adamson's consecration), they will forever remain questionable and uncertain.

Truth be told, I expect that if he COULD demonstrate validity, he would have done so by now, given all the attention the matter is being given.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: happenby on November 16, 2017, 12:39:16 PM
Until anyone here has inquired answers of the new priest, most of what is said here remains speculation. While there is serious doubt about the bishop because he is a sedevacantist, there very will could be more to know before drawing conclusions.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 16, 2017, 12:49:41 PM
I agree. Calling him "nithe" (thereby implying Fr. Francis is effeminate) is scandalous, especially since you've never even met him.
It actually is not very "nice."
I have not seen anyone on this thread declare Francis' ordination certainly invalid, and consequently nobody is actually jumping to any conclusions.

Quite the opposite:

All are (or should be) in a state of suspended judgment until such time as Francis can (or cannot) demonstrate the validity of his ordination (and all that entails).

Meanwhile, nobody with any common sense would frequent such a man for sacraments before that question is answered.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 16, 2017, 12:59:48 PM
Nice thinly-veiled personal attack against several CI members (and especially the moderator, who allows this thread), but no thanks.

The fact is that it is physically impossible to "detract" a priest about this particular matter: the question of his validity.

The validity of a priest is a PUBLIC matter, according to the Catholic Church. It is not:

* a private matter
* none of most people's business
* something we should not speculate about
* something we should give "benefit of the doubt" on
* something we should presume, until proven otherwise
* possible matter for detraction
* possible matter for slander (now we're *lying* about him, just by asking for proof of his ordination!?)

And we haven't declared his ordination invalid. Merely stated the FACT that he has no sufficiently proven or provided the validity of his ordaining bishop.

"Thuc-line bishop" is not, and CANNOT BE, an instant ticket to validity. Even the most die-hard sedevacantist has to agree with that. One might as well say, "Independent priest? he's surely valid then!"
There is simply too much variety in that category.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 16, 2017, 01:16:44 PM
Tradplorable has been banned.

Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 16, 2017, 01:34:50 PM
Tradplorable has been banned.
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Oh, no!  ???   :(   :o .................. You mean, no more incomprehensible non-answers about his flat-earthism?
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 16, 2017, 01:38:35 PM
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Oh, no!  ???   :(   :o .................. You mean, no more incomprehensible non-answers about his flat-earthism?
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I guess not.
This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Flat Earth, however, and I'd appreciate you not starting a fight outside "the ghetto" on that topic.
Some people believe very strongly about that topic.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 16, 2017, 01:41:15 PM
Yes, Matthew, but to what extent?
In my dealings with priests, I ask for lineage, confirm lineage, and evaluate.  I dont ask them for docuмentation proving that the ceremonies of his bishop up through the pre-vat II bishop occurred.

Now, I would assume a priest/prior would check the lineage docuмentation of a boshop for his seminarians.  Do the seminarians really have a choice of bishop?  No.  If fr. Chazal calls in Moran to ordain his seminarians, do the seminarians have a choice in the matter?  I guess they could leave, but they are supposed to trust father prior's judgement.

It seems to me that fr. Mbadugha answered the question when IH said that he obeyed the priest he was working under.  The lineage was provided.  If you are so inclined, one could, himself, contact b. Adamson and ask for proof.  But the rest of us should, as fr. M did, assume that fr. M's superior did his homework and verified the lineage via docuмentation.

Also, it was said that fr. M tried several times to leave OLMC.  Why he wanted to leave and why he stayed you will have to ask him.  Why he went to OLMC in the first place, you will have to ask him.  

Perhaps rather than jumping to conclusions and causing detraction and/or scandal you should ask Fr. M your questions
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One problem with this post is this:  Fr. Francois Chazal is not going to "call in Moran to ordain his seminarians." 
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To the extent that your line of reasoning relies on that as a principle, it fails, because it's invalid, it's not going to happen.
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Pax Vobis on November 16, 2017, 01:46:55 PM
A seminarian isn't a prisoner with no rights.  If he doesn't trust that a bishop is valid, he can just leave the seminary or study house, or wherever he is.  This assumes he's already asked for evidence of his own concerning the bishop, and has been refused or given little answer.  If he blindly trusts his seminary director concerning a bishop, it makes me wonder about the common sense level and 'street smarts' of the seminarian.

Secondly, there's 2 issues here, which are being co-mingled.  1) the validity of the priest and 2) the validity of the bishop who consecrated the priest.  It seems that in this case, there are doubts about both the priest and the bishop, therefore evidence and an explanation is doubly important.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 16, 2017, 01:51:33 PM
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One problem with this post is this:  Fr. Francois Chazal is not going to "call in Moran to ordain his seminarians."
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To the extent that your line of reasoning relies on that as a principle, it fails, because it's invalid, it's not going to happen.
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Indeed. If Fr. Chazal ever lost his mind in that manner, any sane seminarians would have to leave.
The ones who stayed behind for a few months, or a few years, would always have lingering questions hanging over them, re: their good judgment.

Agreed -- the seminarians are not prisoners. There is a time for charity, humility, deference -- staying silent and putting up with OUTRAGEOUS situations (a man like Pablo being in charge of a seminary, approval of Ambrose Moran as a bishop, attacking good resistance priests) is not one of them!
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 16, 2017, 01:53:00 PM
I guess not.
This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Flat Earth, however, and I'd appreciate you not starting a fight outside "the ghetto" on that topic.
Some people believe very strongly about that topic.
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Understood. No problem.
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However, I would cordially invite ANYONE who "strongly believes" as you say, to come and discuss their belief in "the ghetto" (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/50-plus-reasons-the-earth-is-not-flat/) because not a single member has been willing to put their blind faith to the test in a simple, direct manner. Catholic faith is not blind, and does not require Catholics to deny the evidence observable by our senses and examined by our intellect. Only our free will gets us into trouble by choosing to ignore what our intellect provides.
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Back to the topic at hand:
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It might be nice for newcomers if you would explain exactly WHY Tradplorable was banned. I would presume it has to do with him persistently opposing you or testing the principles you have just explained here and in other threads for the umpteenth time. Am I wrong?
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 16, 2017, 02:08:26 PM
A seminarian isn't a prisoner with no rights.  If he doesn't trust that a bishop is valid, he can just leave the seminary or study house, or wherever he is.  This assumes he's already asked for evidence of his own concerning the bishop, and has been refused or given little answer.  If he blindly trusts his seminary director concerning a bishop, it makes me wonder about the common sense level and 'street smarts' of the seminarian.

Secondly, there's 2 issues here, which are being co-mingled.  1) the validity of the priest and 2) the validity of the bishop who consecrated the priest.  It seems that in this case, there are doubts about both the priest and the bishop, therefore evidence and an explanation is doubly important.
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It seems to me there is a third issue, one which applies to all "mainstream" ordinations.
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I have seen sedevacantist priests questioning the validity of other priests solely on the basis of the date of their ordination when it was under the local diocese. If they were ordained after 1969 these sedes presume it was invalid because of the change in the form of priestly ordination in 1969. 
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Similarly, for episcopal consecrations they draw the line at 1968 because the form was changed in that year. Pope Francis is therefore subject to criticism on BOTH counts because he was ordained a priest after 1969 and consecrated a bishop after 1968. Consequently the CMRI (as well as others) clerics claim that he is not a pope because he is not a bishop nor is he even a priest.
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: JPaul on November 16, 2017, 02:58:11 PM
Until anyone here has inquired answers of the new priest, most of what is said here remains speculation. While there is serious doubt about the bishop because he is a sedevacantist, there very will could be more to know before drawing conclusions.
An accurate observation but there is not doubt about a Bishop because he is sedvacantist, there would be doubt if his orders were supect of invalidity.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: JPaul on November 16, 2017, 04:04:30 PM
This is one priest who is apparently going back to Africa to minister, What about all of the indult priests whose ordaining Bishops might be invalid? Many traditionalists find these men to be an interchangeable options with the SSPX for the sacraments. No one seems to be at all concerned about this.

Is it only those individuals who have had any relationship to Boston KY. who rate such demanding scrutiny?
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: JPaul on November 16, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
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It seems to me there is a third issue, one which applies to all "mainstream" ordinations.
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I have seen sedevacantist priests questioning the validity of other priests solely on the basis of the date of their ordination when it was under the local diocese. If they were ordained after 1969 these sedes presume it was invalid because of the change in the form of priestly ordination in 1969.
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Similarly, for episcopal consecrations they draw the line at 1968 because the form was changed in that year. Pope Francis is therefore subject to criticism on BOTH counts because he was ordained a priest after 1969 and consecrated a bishop after 1968. Consequently the CMRI (as well as others) clerics claim that he is not a pope because he is not a bishop nor is he even a priest.
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That is certainly an issue. A man who the SSPX factions all unswervingly proclaim is the Pope of the Catholic Church and yet they have not seen fit to investigate whether or not his orders are valid. Why has this not been researched thoroughly as the whole of Christendom has the right to know with certainty if the head of the Church is even a valid cleric?
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Mithrandylan on November 16, 2017, 04:20:10 PM
Let me try my hand at the "to what extent" question-- it's a good one.  The same extent that we ask questions about Francis from Nigeria applies to all traditional clergy, as far as I'm concerned.

Let's say Francis comes on CI and says he's been ordained a priest by a traditional bishop-- say, Bishop Pivarunas (not going to say Fellay or Williamson because that's too charged-- we'll use an "outsider" for the example).  We say, "let's see the proof."  He provides a certificate, or a picture.  Is that that?

It is if we've independently verified that Pivarunas is a Bishop. And we have.  He publicly (i.e., there's certificates, witnesses, etc. available for anyone who looks into it) received the episcopacy from Bishop Moises Carmona.  He was ordained to the priesthood (again with the necessary proofs) by Bishop George Musey.  Then we can (and should) ask the same question about Carmona.  Again, we find that in the early eighties he was consecrated by Archbishop Thuc in a small ceremony, but with witnesses and the required docuмentation.

And all doubts are resolved.  It wasn't hard, either, because a) the lineage is fairly direct and b) those involved have made sure that the information is out there

All we're doing is asking the same questions of Francis and his lineage.  The problem of the extent of this inquiry is hardly our fault; it's owed to the fact that there are half a dozen relatively obscure (especially for English-speaking Catholics) Thuc "sub consecrations" before one gets to Adamson and Francis. 



Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 16, 2017, 05:02:44 PM
Nice thinly-veiled personal attack against several CI members (and especially the moderator, who allows this thread), but no thanks.

The fact is that it is physically impossible to "detract" a priest about this particular matter: the question of his validity.

The validity of a priest is a PUBLIC matter, according to the Catholic Church. It is not:

* a private matter
* none of most people's business
* something we should not speculate about
* something we should give "benefit of the doubt" on
* something we should presume, until proven otherwise
* possible matter for detraction
* possible matter for slander (now we're *lying* about him, just by asking for proof of his ordination!?)

And we haven't declared his ordination invalid. Merely stated the FACT that he has no sufficiently proven or provided the validity of his ordaining bishop.

"Thuc-line bishop" is not, and CANNOT BE, an instant ticket to validity. Even the most die-hard sedevacantist has to agree with that. One might as well say, "Independent priest? he's surely valid then!"
There is simply too much variety in that category.
No personal attack intended.
Fr. M provided his lineage and the lineage of the ordination bishop, all the way back to a.b. Thuc.  
I just don't see that it is reasonable for fr. M to have to provide a copy of the ordaining bishops consecration paperwork.  
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 16, 2017, 05:15:30 PM
Let me try my hand at the "to what extent" question-- it's a good one.  The same extent that we ask questions about Francis from Nigeria applies to all traditional clergy, as far as I'm concerned.

Let's say Francis comes on CI and says he's been ordained a priest by a traditional bishop-- say, Bishop Pivarunas (not going to say Fellay or Williamson because that's too charged-- we'll use an "outsider" for the example).  We say, "let's see the proof."  He provides a certificate, or a picture.  Is that that?

It is if we've independently verified that Pivarunas is a Bishop. And we have.  He publicly (i.e., there's certificates, witnesses, etc. available for anyone who looks into it) received the episcopacy from Bishop Moises Carmona.  He was ordained to the priesthood (again with the necessary proofs) by Bishop George Musey.  Then we can (and should) ask the same question about Carmona.  Again, we find that in the early eighties he was consecrated by Archbishop Thuc in a small ceremony, but with witnesses and the required docuмentation.

And all doubts are resolved.  It wasn't hard, either, because a) the lineage is fairly direct and b) those involved have made sure that the information is out there.  

All we're doing is asking the same questions of Francis and his lineage.  The problem of the extent of this inquiry is hardly our fault; it's owed to the fact that there are half a dozen relatively obscure (especially for English-speaking Catholics) Thuc "sub consecrations" before one gets to Adamson and Francis.
Thank you for the explanation.
I guess I am just stupid.
I generally believe when a priest tells me his lineage and I can verify it online, without photos, photos of docuмents, or witnesses, that he is a priest.  

Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 16, 2017, 08:04:35 PM
This is one priest who is apparently going back to Africa to minister, What about all of the indult priests whose ordaining Bishops might be invalid? Many traditionalists find these men to be an interchangeable options with the SSPX for the sacraments. No one seems to be at all concerned about this.

Is it only those individuals who have had any relationship to Boston KY. who rate such demanding scrutiny?

Yes, just Boston, KY. You know, the one I have a grudge against. It's all about my hatred for Fr. Pfeiffer and his organization.
::)

Is that really how you thought I would answer?

Seriously, it applies to everyone in all groups, without exception. Anyone with doubtful orders is a problem for Catholics. Rule Number One in Traditional Catholicism is "make sure your priest was validly ordained". That's the reason we left behind the Novus Ordo, for crying out loud! The uncertainty, the dangers, the defects. And we have a certain option, which we are obligated to seek out at all costs -- even to the point of staying home if all we can find is Novus Ordo. We have an obligation to not put our Faith in danger. And we have a right to certainty when it comes to Mass and the Sacraments.

As a matter of fact, you're dead wrong that "no one has a problem with this". That is in fact my main problem with the Indult. The problem with Indult (and even Rome-approved groups) is the FORMATION of the priests. In the case of Summorum Pontificuм/Indult, almost without exception, you're talking about a Novus Ordo priest who learned to say the Latin Mass on his own. That does NOT make a "Traditional Catholic" priest.

An expression comes to mind: "Lipstick on a pig". Also, "A donkey in a suit is still a donkey."

I actually can't believe how many SSPX-raised Catholics "don't get it" when it comes to Tradition, and what the SSPX was all about. I know of several families who now attend the INDULT (not ICK, FSSP, or some "dedicated" pseudo-trad organization). The priests there are varying degrees of unsuitable, especially compared with any SSPX priest (yes, even today!) And yet -- a few families think they are equivalent.
Such people I would describe as "Latin Mass" Catholics, but not Traditional Catholic.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: AJNC on November 16, 2017, 09:10:59 PM
Doesn't take much to find what you are looking for.

Many photos and all the information here:
https://cubacatolica.wordpress.com/linajes-episcopales/linaje-de-mons-dinhthuc-1897-1984/mons-datessen-1934/
If Fr Francis Mbadugha is returning to Nigeria, perhaps he should link up with Fr Bede Nkamuke of the St Gertrude the Great group of Cincinnati, who is already ministering there. Apart from comradeship, he will have the theological resources of Bishops Dolan and Sanborn, and Fr Cekada to draw upon.
http://www.sgg.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Newsletter156.pdf
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 16, 2017, 09:21:44 PM
Yes, just Boston, KY. You know, the one I have a grudge against. It's all about my hatred for Fr. Pfeiffer and his organization.
::)

Is that really how you thought I would answer?

...

As a matter of fact, you're dead wrong that "no one has a problem with this". That is in fact my main problem with the Indult. The problem with Indult (and even Rome-approved groups) is the FORMATION of the priests. In the case of Summorum Pontificuм/Indult, almost without exception, you're talking about a Novus Ordo priest who learned to say the Latin Mass on his own. That does NOT make a "Traditional Catholic" priest.

...
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I might expect JPaul was not referring to you when he said "no one." I surmise he was referring to those who are prone to criticize Resistance Catholics, who claim they're the "true" Resistance, while they accuse you and others like you of being the "fake" Resistance.
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Pax Vobis on November 16, 2017, 10:11:22 PM

Quote
Such people (who leave tradition for the indult) I would describe as "Latin Mass" Catholics, but not Traditional Catholic.
Sad to say, but I'm beginning to think the "latin mass" catholics outnumber those who truly care about the Faith, of which the mass is a part.  Too many nowadays think the mass is all there is to worry about.

My brother went to law school and he's fond of telling a story.  His professor said that it's an economic historical truth that it only takes 3 generations for a country to have a failing economy.  The grandparents build the wealth, the parents spend it and have fun and the grandchildren suffer the consequences, and have to start all over.  In the US, we can easily see this example.  The grandparents built wealth after the great depression and WW2.  The parents of the baby boomer generation spent the wealth (i.e. enjoyed life) and the children of today are suffering the consequences of deficit spending, social programs and govt waste.

I can't help but think this applies to many other things- most notably, the traditional catholic movement.  The 70s generation (grandparents) held to the faith and built traditional catholicism; the 90s generation (parents) enjoyed the benefits of a quasi-stable catholic environment, with schools and chapels, yet did not hand down the true purpose of the "movement", and the trad children nowadays are suffering because they have lost the TRUE connection/reason for 70s - which is opposition to modernism, V2 and the novus ordo.  Some of the grandchildren have left religion altogether; some have left for the indult; many still "go through the motions" of being a trad catholic, but, when push comes to shove, don't really understand the real reasons.  Few there are who have read and studied V2 and modernism and understand the purpose of traditionalism.

Sorry for a melancholic post, but if we all do our best to educate the youth, maybe we can turn the tide!

Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 17, 2017, 12:23:26 AM
If Fr Francis Mbadugha is returning to Nigeria, perhaps he should link up with Fr Bede Nkamuke of the St Gertrude the Great group of Cincinnati, who is already ministering there. Apart from comradeship, he will have the theological resources of Bishops Dolan and Sanborn, and Fr Cekada to draw upon.
http://www.sgg.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Newsletter156.pdf
Fr M is not sedevecanti.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: JPaul on November 17, 2017, 08:53:56 AM
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I might expect JPaul was not referring to you when he said "no one." I surmise he was referring to those who are prone to criticize Resistance Catholics, who claim they're the "true" Resistance, while they accuse you and others like you of being the "fake" Resistance.
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I was certainly not speaking about Matthew as such, but rather Traditional groups in general who whenever they are in conflict with another faction become very agitated over issues such as validity etc. while in the main they never start or contribute to a thread condemning  much greater problems of conciliar validity which range from it false rituals, sacraments, priests, Bishops, and in the current sense its pope.
"Oh, but we've done that so many times before" is what you will hear. Well has it gotten any better or less problematic for the legitimacy of the Church's mission or sacraments? No, and as time goes on it becomes worse and worse as more questionable priests are "ordained" and move up to be appointed as "bishops" and possibly ordain yet more doubtful priests until the whole of validity and orthodoxy become dilute.
Frankly, I do not concern myself with the factions calling each other names anymore. The names that they call themselves or others are meaningless. Fake or real? Resistance is a word that would have been relevant directly after the council when it was implementing the revolution but which has now been consolidated and institutionalized. Today it means nothing except skimishing with another faction over how to do a deal with the revolutionaries.
There is no organized clerical effort or movement which is devoted to countering the council and breaking the hold of the infidel over the Church, which would do battle with the apostate pontiffs and the heretical Bishops directly.  Resistance is an anemic and weak word to use in these times, but if one must use it, there is no true resistance in the Church.  The sedes might be part of the way there but they are still ineffective.
My original point is that recently there are always two to five active threads lambasting some part or activities of the Boston sect. That is somewhat understandable because Fr. Pfeiffer et al have criticized Bishop Williamson, and his Bishops.  In some cases that is justified, but regardless, it plays to a hostile audience on CI, and offends the Bishops supporters, but Boston Ky is a relatively small miniscule operation, and I wonder why it is given so much attention with other more pressing matters are at hand?

But issues such as priestly validity and sacramental validity are far bigger than these things and should always be even handed because they do not only apply to a group which might be out of favor but apply to all segments of the Church at the same time and in the same measure, and should be seen and handled in that way. The places where the corruption is the most active and serious need priority attention.

It does seem that the neo-Traditional movement is sometimes chasing its tail while Rome continues to burn.

Thank you N.O. for presuming good will as my intention. You were not mistaken.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Pax Vobis on November 17, 2017, 10:32:48 AM
Quote
We see and admit to the grave importance of validity when dealing with the Priesthood. And so much has been offered in these last posts as to the necessity of obtaining an adequate amount of certainty of a priest's validity before proceeding.

This brings directly to light the New York debacle and the unsound advice which issued forth from it.

When giving Catholics an opening to attend the Novus Ordo and recieve its miraculous sacraments, it appears that there was no talk of acertaining a New Order priest's proof of validity before going there.
What seemed to qualify as sufficient is how the priest appeared to celebrate the "mass".

The validity of any given conciliar priest is suspect in that there is no way to know who is and who isn't a priest without properly researching his background.  So if validity is of such high importance(and it is), why on Earth was that not spoken of as a pre-requisite for attending an illicit service (i.e. novus ordo mass) in which there is a known danger of invalidity?  How does that square with what is being said here about the importance of validity, and when there is no less a question or a doubt generated by a Novus ordo ordination than there might be by an Ambrose Moran ordination.

This is clearly a double standard which is at work here, and such a standard relies upon only part of the truth being presented. It cannot work when the whole of the truth is considered because it is exposed for what it is.
Very important questions!

I think, psychologically, the warfare that we catholics have endured against Rome and the confusion and chaos caused by the modernists leave us all overwhelmed and it's easy to lose grip of reality when 95% of the world is crazy, religiously speaking.  We look at the situation in the new church and it's hard to fathom the truth -

1.  that EVERY novus ordo mass is illicit (therefore sinful), that most are invalid (sinful), that most (all?) are sacrilgious (sinful by atmostphere). 

2.  that EVERY novus ordo priest's ordination (post 1960s) is doubtful.  And their seminary training is highly suspect and deficient.

3.  that EVERY novus ordo bishop's consecration is doubtful, as well as seminary training.

4.  that EVERY traditional ("indult") mass said by novus ordo priests is doubtful, because the priest is doubtful and because his training in SAYING the mass is doubtful.

5.  that EVERY "indult" mass is morally wrong (in my opinion) because it publicly condones/accepts the sacrilegious and illicit new mass.


Doubt, doubt, doubt...problems, problems, problems...everywhere.  In all areas of the church, in all countries, in all dioceses.  The evidence is overwhelming.

Then you start to wonder (at least I do):  "Am I being too strict?  Too damning of these doubts?  I mean, after all, a doubt holds the possibility of being wrong, right?  So maybe the Church isn't as bad off as we think?"

Sadly, it's not the case.  We must reject newrome's program wholeheartedly, else we compromise our Faith.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: TKGS on November 17, 2017, 11:17:44 AM
Fr. M provided his lineage and the lineage of the ordination bishop, all the way back to a.b. Thuc.  
I just don't see that it is reasonable for fr. M to have to provide a copy of the ordaining bishops consecration paperwork.  

I think the problem is that the ordaining bishop himself has not been forthright about his consecration.  As Mithrandylan pointed out above, there are Thuc lines that are publicly docuмented and they are publicly docuмented because the bishops involved make sure that the docuмentation of their lineage is publicly accessible.  For a priest to go to a bishop who himself is virtually unknown and seems secretive about docuмenting his own lineage, then it is incuмbent upon the priest-candidate to do so or else find a bishop whose lineage is certain.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Nooseph Polten on November 17, 2017, 01:40:08 PM
He thought it was appropriate and fine for an apostate, superstitious man (with no seminary or theological training whatsoever) to regularly be in charge of a seminary.
That speaks to a certain deficiency.
No he didn't. I have personally heard him say that he thought Pablo's actions regarding this issue and many others were inappropriate and wrong. Be carefull when judging others' intentions.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: TKGS on November 17, 2017, 03:18:07 PM
Perhaps the ordaining bishop has shown his docuмentation to the priest Fr. Mbadugha was studying under.  
Perhaps the priest Fr. Mbadugha was studying under was at the consecration of the ordaining bishop.
Perhaps fr. Mbadugha has seen the ordaining bishop's docuмentation.
Perhaps b. Adamson chooses not to associate with traditionalists much due to the strife within camps.  (I can't say that I blame him if this were the case.)
Anyone who knows Fr. Mbadugha knows that he is one to do his due diligence.
Also, it seems to me that the lineage is docuмented very detailed on the website posted earlier and nothing further is needed.  

Perhaps you haven't read many of the sound posts on this topic.  I direct you to several posts by Matthew, Ladislaus, and Mithrandylan.

All of these perhaps's isn't good enough during this time of Crisis where there are a number of absolutely fake priests and bishops running around establishing little cults and dividing Catholics.  The faithful also have a duty to be sure when they seek the sacraments.  
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 17, 2017, 07:14:35 PM


I was certainly not speaking about Matthew as such, but rather Traditional groups in general who whenever they are in conflict with another faction become very agitated over issues such as validity etc. while in the main they never start or contribute to a thread condemning  much greater problems of conciliar validity which range from it false rituals, sacraments, priests, Bishops, and in the current sense its pope.
"Oh, but we've done that so many times before" is what you will hear. Well has it gotten any better or less problematic for the legitimacy of the Church's mission or sacraments? No, and as time goes on it becomes worse and worse as more questionable priests are "ordained" and move up to be appointed as "bishops" and possibly ordain yet more doubtful priests until the whole of validity and orthodoxy become dilute.
Frankly, I do not concern myself with the factions calling each other names anymore. The names that they call themselves or others are meaningless. Fake or real? Resistance is a word that would have been relevant directly after the council when it was implementing the revolution but which has now been consolidated and institutionalized. Today it means nothing except skimishing with another faction over how to do a deal with the revolutionaries.
There is no organized clerical effort or movement which is devoted to countering the council and breaking the hold of the infidel over the Church, which would do battle with the apostate pontiffs and the heretical Bishops directly.  Resistance is an anemic and weak word to use in these times, but if one must use it, there is no true resistance in the Church.  The sedes might be part of the way there but they are still ineffective.
My original point is that recently there are always two to five active threads lambasting some part or activities of the Boston sect. That is somewhat understandable because Fr. Pfeiffer et al have criticized Bishop Williamson, and his Bishops.  In some cases that is justified, but regardless, it plays to a hostile audience on CI, and offends the Bishops supporters, but Boston Ky is a relatively small miniscule operation, and I wonder why it is given so much attention with other more pressing matters are at hand?

But issues such as priestly validity and sacramental validity are far bigger than these things and should always be even handed because they do not only apply to a group which might be out of favor but apply to all segments of the Church at the same time and in the same measure, and should be seen and handled in that way. The places where the corruption is the most active and serious need priority attention.

It does seem that the neo-Traditional movement is sometimes chasing its tail while Rome continues to burn.

Thank you N.O. for presuming good will as my intention. You were not mistaken.
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You're welcome, JPaul.
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I was surprised Matthew presumed the worst of your meaning, but it seems he was shooting from the hip. There are a lot of battles to fight and he's sensitive to particular ones, so your slightly ambiguous wording gave him an opportunity to launch another reaction, which is what he did. Not a bad reaction, really. Formation of priests is a HUGE topic and very important.
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I found it interesting that in your reply, above you mention the incessant demise of Tradition currently afoot:
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"No, and as time goes on it becomes worse and worse as more questionable priests are "ordained" and move up to be appointed as "bishops" and possibly ordain yet more doubtful priests until the whole of validity and orthodoxy become dilute."
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This caught my eye because I saw a rather detailed article about this very thing, how the Pope -- errr, "bishop of rome" --- is deliberately passing over recommended priests for episcopal consecration in favor of certain ultra-liberal priests who are recommended to him merely by a single comment from a fellow Jesuit, in other words, he is throwing tradition out the window in order to overturn everything in sight: 
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http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com.au/2017/11/pope-ignores-congregation-of-bishops-in.html
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One relevant segment:
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Quote
Pope Francis is looking for "the most progressive candidates". 

"It is disturbing because it is the task of Cardinal Ouellet in Rome to propose the name to the Pope, but he ignores it and opts for completely different candidates".

A few days earlier La Croix had written:

"It has already happened that Pope Francis rejected all three of the names presented to him by Cardinal Marc Ouellet, Prefect of the Congregation of Bishops, [...] and even sought others from his direction."

In order to seek "others from his own direction," the Pope, in order to obtain information, makes use of the Jesuit order. The decisive factor for Francis, according to Pronkin, is the progressive attitude of the candidate, which must be confirmed to him by a confidant. This confirmation is sufficient. The Pope would then need no dossiers and reports, as presented to him by the Congregation of Bishops. The recommendation of a person whom he trusts is enough to make someone a bishop. 
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 17, 2017, 07:21:35 PM
No he didn't. I have personally heard him say that he thought Pablo's actions regarding this issue and many others were inappropriate and wrong. Be careful when judging others' intentions.
.
So if Fr. Pfeiffer is aware of Pablo's inappropriate and wrong actions, then why is Pablo still in charge of the seminary?
.
What does this say of Fr. Pfeiffer's "intentions" when he leaves a QUESTIONABLE man in charge when he's out of town?
.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: JPaul on November 17, 2017, 08:04:45 PM
.
So if Fr. Pfeiffer is aware of Pablo's inappropriate and wrong actions, then why is Pablo still in charge of the seminary?
.
What does this say of Fr. Pfeiffer's "intentions" when he leaves a QUESTIONABLE man in charge when he's out of town?
.
Father keeps making that same mistake over and over, but then their relationship is both complex and odd at the same time.  If the Bishop had acted differently in 2012-13 toward him, things might well have turned out very differently, but then again, their relationship has always be complex and odd as well.  So much drama in the world of SSPXism......................quirky personalities, visions, agendas, and doctrine all mixed up in a eternally simmering soup.  Perhaps the vapors have affected us all by now.    :o  
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 17, 2017, 08:27:45 PM
Perhaps the ordaining bishop has shown his docuмentation to the priest Fr. Mbadugha was studying under.  
Perhaps the priest Fr. Mbadugha was studying under was at the consecration of the ordaining bishop.
Perhaps fr. Mbadugha has seen the ordaining bishop's docuмentation.
Perhaps b. Adamson chooses not to associate with traditionalists much due to the strife within camps.  (I can't say that I blame him if this were the case.)
Anyone who knows Fr. Mbadugha knows that he is one to do his due diligence.
Also, it seems to me that the lineage is docuмented very detailed on the website posted earlier and nothing further is needed.  
 Not good enough. 
That doesn't help the laity to have certainty. We all have a right to certainty. Unless Fr. Francis has a celebret from the local Ordinary, and he came from a professional seminary with Roman oversight, etc. we need to do our own due diligence ourselves.

Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 17, 2017, 08:34:09 PM
JPaul,

I'm just very leery and suspicious of anyone who thinks he's wiser, smarter and "above it all" when the thing being exceeded is....wait for it... the entire Traditional Movement!

People like that are basically saying to themselves:

Quote
Archbishop Lefebvre, all the SSPX bishops, the Resistance bishops, all the sedevacantist prelates and clergy, tens of thousands of Faithful over the past 50 years -- they all just "don't get it". I know exactly what we need to do, and no one's doing it...

Yeah, whatever. Vainglory much?

I say do your best in your station of life, and leave the glorious deeds to God. He'll call you if He wants you. You're not going to thwart God.


EDIT:
I would like to add that it's bad enough we're objectively above so much of the world's population (having the Faith), and even the vast majority of Catholics, just by virtue of the fact that we know what it means to be Catholic. We know our Faith; we have the truth. This already makes us an elite.

But I refuse to go a step further and say that I am personally above everyone else in the Trad movement. My pride detector (kind of like a smoke alarm, or a carbon monoxide detector) goes off every time I might be tempted to this kind of thinking.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: TKGS on November 17, 2017, 08:52:56 PM
Not good enough.
That doesn't help the laity to have certainty. We all have a right to certainty. Unless Fr. Francis has a celebret from the local Ordinary, and he came from a professional seminary with Roman oversight, etc. we need to do our own due diligence ourselves.
A celebret from the local Ordinary (of the Conciliar sect) would make his ordination even more doubtful!!
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 17, 2017, 09:03:40 PM
Perhaps you haven't read many of the sound posts on this topic.  I direct you to several posts by Matthew, Ladislaus, and Mithrandylan.

All of these perhaps's isn't good enough during this time of Crisis where there are a number of absolutely fake priests and bishops running around establishing little cults and dividing Catholics.  The faithful also have a duty to be sure when they seek the sacraments.  
I have read them.
It seems to me that some people require more evidence to satisfy them than others.  We can only be as certain as we can be.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 17, 2017, 09:14:51 PM
A celebret from the local Ordinary (of the Conciliar sect) would make his ordination even more doubtful!!
I thought of that, but that is why posts always have to balloon to a huge size, to cover all the bases.
Yes, it goes without saying that we don't have that option, with the current Crisis in the Church. But it doesn't change the fact that under normal times the Church would take care of all that "hard stuff" for us, so we laymen could just live our lives, show up at Mass, and not have to worry about validity, jurisdiction, priestly training, etc.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: ImmaculateHeart on November 17, 2017, 10:10:10 PM
If Fr. Malachi Martin recognized and worked with Bp. José Ramon Lopez Gaston, through who the picture, through whose line Bp. Adamson was consecrated by Bp. José Urbina then I don't worry. The Priest who guided Fr. M didn't go researching and looking for a Bishop, as he has known Bp. Adamson for long.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: JPaul on November 17, 2017, 10:26:08 PM
I never said or implied that I am in any way superior to any other Catholic. That is something that is being read into my comments.

As for the Archbishop and his legacy, well, the record and present realities speak to that without requiring my input. Many other Catholics see things and draw conclusions from them. Just because I notice them and speak up about them does not elevate  me or set me apart from the others.  You may think that I am "people like that" but you are mistaken in that judgement. I will leave it there.

The SSPX has done much that is good and it been of great benefit to myself and my family, but that does not mean it is a light in the heavens. I once thought it was, but the last few years have been a rude awakening and a crash course in reality.  

God Bless you
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: TKGS on November 18, 2017, 05:31:21 AM
If Fr. Malachi Martin recognized and worked with Bp. José Ramon Lopez Gaston, through who the picture, through whose line Bp. Adamson was consecrated by Bp. José Urbina then I don't worry. The Priest who guided Fr. M didn't go researching and looking for a Bishop, as he has known Bp. Adamson for long.
Thanks for the information.  If Malachi Martin recognized him and worked with him, than he's definitely suspect!
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 18, 2017, 09:14:28 AM
The SSPX has done much that is good and it been of great benefit to myself and my family, but that does not mean it is a light in the heavens. I once thought it was, but the last few years have been a rude awakening and a crash course in reality.  

I could have written that myself.

However, some people go too far in their "wake up call" and find the need to find something *fundamentally wrong* with +ABL's work, as if he made a major mistake, or his whole strategy was fundamentally flawed.

No, he just had the one weakness that even God can relate to (to a certain degree): he depends on, and works with, flawed and frail human beings. Human beings who lose heart, betray, get deceived, go astray, etc. (Obviously it's hard to directly compare God with any human being. In the case of God, He *chose* to work with flawed human instruments -- but being God, He can still arrange things so that His will is done.)

God and +ABL could talk about how their respective organizations had serious "personnel" problems -- with God, it's His Church and the recent Modernists/popes. With +ABL, it's the SSPX and +Fellay and cabal.

For that matter, many parents could talk about how they did everything right, and this or that child still went astray. It's called FREE WILL and FALLEN HUMAN NATURE.

Let's put it this way -- right now, the Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ has fallen MUCH harder, and much lower, than the SSPX has. Is there anyone on the entire Forum-sphere going to deny that?  So can we therefore conclude that the Church was more fundamentally flawed than the SSPX was? Obviously we can't do that. We'd be getting into blasphemy territory.

Just because a child turns out awful doesn't always mean it's the parents fault. Sometimes you can indeed trace the cause to bad example of the parents, lack of discipline, sending them to public school to get corrupted, etc. -- but not always! There is such a thing as a "black sheep" who came from the same family, but rejects what the family taught by word and example, and held most dear (Catholic Faith, Catholic morality, etc.) It happens all the time. We can't deny the role of Free Will in the world's problems -- or the Church's problems.

I say: there was nothing wrong with the SSPX or its position. Let's keep up the good work. Keep on doing what we were doing. We were doing fine (at least as fine as a small, microscopic group can). That's all God expects of us -- to try. He will turn things around when *He* is good and ready.

As for why the Crisis isn't over, and why the world is still going to hell in a handbasket -- well, Russia hasn't been consecrated to the I.H.M. yet, and the Chastisement hasn't happened yet. I'm with Bishop Williamson on this one. Political activism, grassroots campaigns, and individual heroism didn't turn things around before the Great Flood, and it's not going to work now. God knows this.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 18, 2017, 09:20:26 AM

Quote from: ImmaculateHeart on Yesterday at 08:10:10 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/ex-olmc-seminarian-ordained/msg579760/#msg579760)
Quote
If Fr. Malachi Martin recognized and worked with Bp. José Ramon Lopez Gaston, through who the picture, through whose line Bp. Adamson was consecrated by Bp. José Urbina then I don't worry. The Priest who guided Fr. M didn't go researching and looking for a Bishop, as he has known Bp. Adamson for long.

Thanks for the information.  If Malachi Martin recognized him and worked with him, than he's definitely suspect!
.
Where is the "picture" mentioned? I think I saw it somewhere but now I can't find it.
.

Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 18, 2017, 09:32:18 AM
.
Never mind. I found it:
.
(https://cubacatolica.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/copia28229demerida3.jpg?w=700)
Natural de Cuba. Consagrado obispo el 29 de junio de 1992 en Miami, Florida, por Mons. Mamistra Olivares. Luego fue consagrado obispo sub conditione el 20 de noviembre de 1993 en Miami, Florida, por Mons. Jean Charles Roux. Residía en Rockford, Illinois. En la foto, están de izquierda a derecha: Mons. Urbina Aznar, Mons. Malachi Martin (jesuita), P. Rama Coomaraswamy y Mons. Lopez – Gastón.
.
.
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From the website
https://cubacatolica.wordpress.com/linajes-episcopales/linaje-de-mons-dinhthuc-1897-1984/mons-datessen-1934/
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Which was provided on an earlier post
https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/ex-olmc-seminarian-ordained/msg579204/#msg579204
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I recall thinking "that guy in the back row sure looks like Malachi Martin" but I didn't notice his name in the text below.
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I spoke to Martin on the phone in 1995 when in the course of our conversation he mentioned "bishop in pectore." I didn't know what that meant, so I asked him about it and he explained it to me, very patiently, with a lovely Irish brogue.
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Mithrandylan on November 18, 2017, 09:35:43 AM
If Fr. Malachi Martin recognized and worked with Bp. José Ramon Lopez Gaston, through who the picture, through whose line Bp. Adamson was consecrated by Bp. José Urbina then I don't worry. The Priest who guided Fr. M didn't go researching and looking for a Bishop, as he has known Bp. Adamson for long.
.
Coomaraswamy also thought Martin was a bishop. Despite having published some great stuff, Dr. C kind of lost it toward the end (not his faith or sanity-- but good and trustworthy judgment. )
.
There's some room in these discussions for trusting the judgment of men whom we esteem, believing they wouldn't lead us wrong. Imo, anyways. But that's very subjective and not sufficient for a public proof.
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Who is the priest who recommended Adamson to Francis?  What can you tell us about him?
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 18, 2017, 10:18:44 AM
Wasn't Dr. Coomaraswamy a married man who was also a priest?

Bp. Slupski cited Dr. C as an example or precedent for what he wanted to do with me -- namely, ordain me even though I was already married with 2 children at the time.

Fortunately, I was sane enough to decline his offer!

Speaking of otherwise good priests who lose their good judgment and common sense utterly and completely...
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: AJNC on November 18, 2017, 10:25:48 AM
.
Coomaraswamy also thought Martin was a bishop. Despite having published some great stuff, Dr. C kind of lost it toward the end (not his faith or sanity-- but good and trustworthy judgment. )
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There's some room in these discussions for trusting the judgment of men whom we esteem, believing they wouldn't lead us wrong. Imo, anyways. But that's very subjective and not sufficient for a public proof.
.
Who is the priest who recommended Adamson to Francis?  What can you tell us about him?
Yes, you are right about Dr.C. We used to exchange letters and he wrote me that Malachy Martin was secretly consecrated bishop by Pius XII.  I was amazed that he could believe such crap.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: obediens on November 18, 2017, 11:38:58 AM
The photos of Rama Coomaraswamy's ordination are worrisome, to say the least! See: http://www.the-pope.com/RC1b.jpg and http://www.the-pope.com/RC2b.jpg

Regarding the Imposition of Hands photo:

The only time when one hand is imposed is at the diaconal ordination (and the crosier isn't held for that either), never the priestly ordination or episcopal consecration.

I am not sure if the photo is supposed to be of the first imposition of hands, the essential natter of the Sacrament, done before the essential form is recited (during the Consecratory Preface) or of the imposition of hands during the bestowal of the power to forgive sins, "Accipe Spiritum Sanctum..." 

In any case, it is obvious that even the one hand isn't fully touching the head, just a few fingers! If this was the first imposition, as the essential matter for the Sacrament, that totally calls into question the very validity of the ordination.

If it was during the "Accipe," that comes before the unfolding of the chasuble, not after, and you can see the chasuble was already unfolded. 

Regarding the vesting photo:

There is no ceremony at any level of Holy Orders when the ordaining prelate vests a surplice-wearing ordinand with what appears to be the alb. Never. And, incidentally, where's the amice? 

This line is supposed to be trustworthy?! In these two photos alone, there are multiple indications of a lack of formation/rubrical knowledge/good sense on the part of the "ordaining prelate" and the assisting clerics on several levels! Malachi Martin was supposedly a great scholar and a secret bishop, why did he go along with this? Only to re-ordain Coomaraswamy. Strange indeed.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Mithrandylan on November 18, 2017, 11:39:08 AM
Wasn't Dr. Coomaraswamy a married man who was also a priest?
.
Yes, the picture from earlier was after his ordination.  He did (to his credit, I suppose, things being as they are) take a vow of celibacy.
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Incidentally, Adamson refers to him as Father Coomarswamy in a review he (Adamson) wrote of his (Coomarswamy's) book: http://www.worldwisdom.com/public/products/0-941532-98-4_Destruction_of_the_Christian_Tradition.aspx?ID=148
.
Quote
Bp. Slupski cited Dr. C as an example or precedent for what he wanted to do with me -- namely, ordain me even though I was already married with 2 children at the time.

Fortunately, I was sane enough to decline his offer!

Speaking of otherwise good priests who lose their good judgment and common sense utterly and completely...

.
As I understand, Bp. Slupski's experiences under literal communist persecution led him to be... paranoid.  Ergo, the secret consecrations, married men, and the rest.  I've not met him, but have a friend who grew up around him and it's an unfortunate situation.  Over time, things just got worse and worse.
.
As I understand, Slupski's "cavalier" approach caused incalculable dismay for Bishop McKenna (RIP) and was a significant factor in McKenna's recusance.

ETA:

Here is the review Adamson wrote of Coomarswamy's book:


 
Quote
"On a warm spring Sunday in 1966, at the ripe old age of sixteen, I suddenly surprised myself by standing up and walking out of the church in which I had been baptized, made my First Communion and had been Confirmed. This was the church in which my parents were married. It was a church built in large part by the efforts of my Scottish grandfather, a convert. It was the same church from which many members of my family, including my mother, when I was five, had been buried.
 
 From the spiritual side, this was the church for which my Irish and German ancestors had suffered persecution and perhaps even death in order to remain faithful to the One True Church established by our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, upon the rock of Peter. Yet, in spite of all this, something inside me was protesting, telling me something was wrong. I did not know what, but I did know that something was not right. I did know that this was no longer the church of my childhood, nor of my parents, nor my ancestors. Something was gnawing at my soul and telling me that this was not “the Church.”
 
 Now, nearly forty years later to the day, someone has confirmed my feelings by answering my questions and self-doubts with facts and data. Father Rama Coomaraswamy’s latest book, The Destruction of the Christian Tradition, published by World Wisdom, shows unequivocally and precisely how the centuries-old enemies of the Church – the Freemasons, Communists and Modernists – have managed to infiltrate the hierarchy, even to the papacy, destroying the Sacraments, especially the Priesthood and the Mass, as well as the doctrines and teachings of Christ’s Mystical Body, and ultimately wreaking havoc upon the faith of millions of Catholics worldwide, both before and after the infamous council of Vatican II.
 
 This book does not, as one frequently finds in Traditional Catholic Apologetics, represent the ranting and raving of a madman kicking against the goad. This is not a book of opinions, either personal or perceived. On the contrary, Fr. Coomaraswamy uses the actual letters, speeches, encyclicals and the very docuмents of the post-Vatican II church, in comparison to the teachings of the True Church. The Destruction of the Christian Tradition is like a mammoth, methodical machine moving meticulously forward, crushing the lies, deceits and false teachings of the heretics and schismatics of this Anti-Catholic Church. This book makes the reader pound his fist upon the table, or shake his head in sad and utter dismay, at the malign and malignant plots and ploys of the evil men and women occupying positions of power within the pseudo-Catholic Church of today.
 
 Everyone who dares call himself Catholic in these present times needs to read this book – especially those contemplating the pretended priesthood or religious life within the Novus Ordo church. Fortunately, one need not possess a degree in theology to understand the issues raised in this book. Fr. Coomaraswamy’s style is clear, concise and to the point. As Bishop T. C. Fouhy states in his introduction, this book is “most readable.” It challenges and provokes, making the reader ask: “Can a church which denies itself be the true Catholic Church?”
 
 My generation, from the late 1940s and 1950s, represents for the most part the putrid, rotten fruits of Vatican II. We had our faith snatched out from under our feet and our spiritual lives snuffed out. The Destruction of the Christian Tradition explains in no uncertain terms how and why this happened. It answers the questions raised within my soul on that Sunday, so long ago in 1966.
 
 But in the final analysis The Destruction of the Christian Tradition becomes a call back to the True Church. To paraphrase Fr. Coomaraswamy, it makes us ask ourselves where we stand, by Caesar or by God? For whom do we cry out, for Barabbas or for Christ?"
 —Bishop Merrill W. B. Adamson

Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: obediens on November 18, 2017, 11:49:11 AM
As far as the November 1993 consecration by Roux goes, these should suffice: http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Msgr_Chadwick_on_Bp_Roux.html and https://sarumuse.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/vagante-bishop-aping-rome.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 18, 2017, 05:10:15 PM
.
Yes, the picture from earlier was after his ordination.  He did (to his credit, I suppose, things being as they are) take a vow of celibacy.
.
Incidentally, Adamson refers to him as Father Coomarswamy in a review he (Adamson) wrote of his (Coomarswamy's) book: http://www.worldwisdom.com/public/products/0-941532-98-4_Destruction_of_the_Christian_Tradition.aspx?ID=148
.
.
As I understand, Bp. Slupski's experiences under literal communist persecution led him to be... paranoid.  Ergo, the secret consecrations, married men, and the rest.  I've not met him, but have a friend who grew up around him and it's an unfortunate situation.  Over time, things just got worse and worse.
.
As I understand, Slupski's "cavalier" approach caused incalculable dismay for Bishop McKenna (RIP) and was a significant factor in McKenna's recusance.

ETA:

Here is the review Adamson wrote of Coomarswamy's book:

"On a warm spring Sunday in 1966, at the ripe old age of sixteen, I suddenly surprised myself by standing up and walking out of the church in which I had been baptized, made my First Communion and had been Confirmed. This was the church in which my parents were married. It was a church built in large part by the efforts of my Scottish grandfather, a convert. It was the same church from which many members of my family, including my mother, when I was five, had been buried.
 
 From the spiritual side, this was the church for which my Irish and German ancestors had suffered persecution and perhaps even death in order to remain faithful to the One True Church established by our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, upon the rock of Peter. Yet, in spite of all this, something inside me was protesting, telling me something was wrong. I did not know what, but I did know that something was not right. I did know that this was no longer the church of my childhood, nor of my parents, nor my ancestors. Something was gnawing at my soul and telling me that this was not “the Church.”
 
 Now, nearly forty years later to the day, someone has confirmed my feelings by answering my questions and self-doubts with facts and data. Father Rama Coomaraswamy’s latest book, The Destruction of the Christian Tradition, published by World Wisdom, shows unequivocally and precisely how the centuries-old enemies of the Church – the Freemasons, Communists and Modernists – have managed to infiltrate the hierarchy, even to the papacy, destroying the Sacraments, especially the Priesthood and the Mass, as well as the doctrines and teachings of Christ’s Mystical Body, and ultimately wreaking havoc upon the faith of millions of Catholics worldwide, both before and after the infamous council of Vatican II.
 
 This book does not, as one frequently finds in Traditional Catholic Apologetics, represent the ranting and raving of a madman kicking against the goad. This is not a book of opinions, either personal or perceived. On the contrary, Fr. Coomaraswamy uses the actual letters, speeches, encyclicals and the very docuмents of the post-Vatican II church, in comparison to the teachings of the True Church. The Destruction of the Christian Tradition is like a mammoth, methodical machine moving meticulously forward, crushing the lies, deceits and false teachings of the heretics and schismatics of this Anti-Catholic Church. This book makes the reader pound his fist upon the table, or shake his head in sad and utter dismay, at the malign and malignant plots and ploys of the evil men and women occupying positions of power within the pseudo-Catholic Church of today.
 
 Everyone who dares call himself Catholic in these present times needs to read this book – especially those contemplating the pretended priesthood or religious life within the Novus Ordo church. Fortunately, one need not possess a degree in theology to understand the issues raised in this book. Fr. Coomaraswamy’s style is clear, concise and to the point. As Bishop T. C. Fouhy states in his introduction, this book is “most readable.” It challenges and provokes, making the reader ask: “Can a church which denies itself be the true Catholic Church?”
 
 My generation, from the late 1940s and 1950s, represents for the most part the putrid, rotten fruits of Vatican II. We had our faith snatched out from under our feet and our spiritual lives snuffed out. The Destruction of the Christian Tradition explains in no uncertain terms how and why this happened. It answers the questions raised within my soul on that Sunday, so long ago in 1966.
 
 But in the final analysis The Destruction of the Christian Tradition becomes a call back to the True Church. To paraphrase Fr. Coomaraswamy, it makes us ask ourselves where we stand, by Caesar or by God? For whom do we cry out, for Barabbas or for Christ?"

 —Bishop Merrill W. B. Adamson

.
That's a pretty good read. 
.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 18, 2017, 05:13:20 PM
Thanks for the information.  If Malachi Martin recognized him and worked with him, [then] he's definitely suspect!
.
I don't understand all the venomous calumny hurled in the general direction of Fr. Martin.
.
I saw this sort of thing slung about years ago on Angelqueen and it made just as little sense there.
.
What's up?
.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: AJNC on November 18, 2017, 06:56:18 PM
.
I don't understand all the venomous calumny hurled in the general direction of Fr. Martin.
.
I saw this sort of thing slung about years ago on Angelqueen and it made just as little sense there.
.
What's up?
.
This article by Professor Oliver has something on Martin.
http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/church.htm
Quote
(http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/logo.gif)HOW THEY STOLE THE CHURCH
by Professor Revilo P. Oliver
(Liberty Bell, August 1991)

 
Christianity is still one of the cardinal factors in any reasonable estimate of our present plight. It is certainly more important than economics, and it made possible the alien capture and occupation of the United States.
The Christian churches fall into two categories. The Protestant sects necessarily depend for their authority on a belief that the Bible was divinely inspired and is therefore literally accurate. This basis of their religion was gradually eroded over the past century. With few noteworthy exceptions, (1) the major Protestant churches have slyly but effectively replaced their Bible with the "social gospel" of the Marxian Reformation, relying on the fecklessness or gullibility of their congregations to overlook the spiritual swindle. They have thus become religiously, as well as intellectually, fraudulent.
[size=-1](footnote 1. The principle exceptions are the Missouri Synod of the Lutherans, which is now in the hands of a bureaucracy that is bent on debasing it to the level of the "main-line" Lutheran churches (cf. Liberty Bell, July 1990, pp. 16-25); the much smaller Wisconsin Synod, which has troubles of its own; small groups of Presbyterians, headed by Dr. Rousas J. Rushdoony, and Anglicans, headed by the late Bishop Dees, who try to preserve the essentials of their religion; and the Mormons, who have supplemental Scriptures of their own, but have serious internal dissension (cf. Liberty Bell, July 1989, pp. 13-37) and are increasingly vulnerable to attacks on their new gospels (cf. Liberty Bell, December 1989, pp. 10-28.))[/size]
The Roman Catholic Church was less vulnerable because less dependent on the Bible, which, for many centuries, it forbade laymen to read. It claims to represent an apostolic succession from the incarnate god of Christianity, and until quite recently, it, by far the largest of Christian denominations, exhibited a monolithic solidarity that made it seem impregnable. (2) Then, only a few years ago, it was suddenly shattered by an internal revolution, as sudden and drastic as the Jєωs' Bolshevik revolution in Russia, and far more suprising to observers of world affairs.
[size=-1](footnote 2. In America's Decline, pp. 78-79, I described the Church as it appeared in 1955 to observers who, having no religion, could consider the problem objectively and even had the benefit of information that had been available only through military intelligence, including secret communications between the Vatican and its branches in several parts of the world.)[/size]
It was a 'palace revolution.' What had been the Church's great strength became its fatal weakness. When the conspirators captured the Vatican, they became the masters of all their subordinates in the regular Church and in the monastic orders, from archbishops to parish priests to yet unordained postulants and students in seminaries. By the power of excommunication they could deprive any dissident of his livelihood by preventing him from practicing the only art he knew. It required great faith and great courage even to question the dictates of the revolutionary régime.
Archbishops, of course, were persons of some consequence, accustomed to luxury suited to their exalted position, and if any of them was sufficiently interested in the Church's doctrine to resent the change, it is likely that he was kept in line by threats sweetened by generous bribes. Malcontents and soft-spoken dissidents within the Roman Curia were tolerated until they were eliminated or cowed by terrorism after the murder of John Paul I in 1978. (3) Conscientious priests, unless able to escape notice, had no alternative but to leave the Church and seek other means of earning a living. Many of them did, including two with whom I was aquainted. I have seen an estimate that throughout the world 100,000 priests left the apostate Church, but I hesitate to accept that figure.
[size=-1](footnote 3. There can be no reasonable doubt that the Pope was murdered, although the motive for the crime remains obscure. I have referred more than once to David Yallin's sensational book, In God's Name, but I have only recently received a copy of a work by Piers Compton, The Broken Cross (Bullsbrook, West Australia; Veritas, 1984). He appears not to have seen Yallin's book, but was able to consult letters from twenty-two prelates concerning the death of the Pope, collected in a volume entitled Lettres de Rome sur le singulier trépas de Jean-Paul I by a Parisian journalist under the pseudonym Jean Jacques Thierry. The volume was suppressed almost immediately after it was published. The Pope died during the night, his call for help having been inexplicably ignored. In the morning, his corpse was found at 5:30 and by 9:30 embalmers had completed their work, having removed the vital organs that would be needed for an autopsy and reportedly destroyed them! This fact was apparently unknown to the persons who, during the following days, demanded an autopsy that had been made impossible. That indecent precaution establishes the fact of murder.)[/size]
Religiously, the Church committed ѕυιcιdє. Every 'revealed' religion must profess to be based on transcendental truth that is immutable and eternal, revealed, directly or indirectly, by an eternal, immutable, and infallible god. The Roman Church claimed to have been founded by an Apostle expressly delegated for that purpose by its incarnate god, and Pius XII, the last Pontifex Maximus before the new régime, was the two hundred and sixty-second in an apostolic succession, representing, it was claimed, an unbroken tradition and a doctrine that had been received from the divinely-appointed Apostle.
As every man capable of logical thought saw at once, the radical changes in doctrine made by the new régime necessarily implied that either (a) the Church's god had ignorantly, irrationally, or maliciously lied to his Vicars on earth for nineteen centuries, or (b) the two hundred and sixty-two Vicars had misrepresented the wishes and commands of their celestial principal.
The drastic changes did not make the Church simply explode, because faith commonly precludes logical thought, and in the Roman Church, the mass of votaries had long been accustomed to believe whatever they were told by their priest and unquestioningly to follow his directions.
When the Church was "modernized," as though it were an old house or an obsolete railroad, many ostentatious changes in practice may have been partly devised to conceal vital changes in doctrine. Most churches, for example, were stripped of their ornaments and made as bare and uninteresting as churches of the most Puritanical Protestant sects. The Latin mass, which was impressive when well performed, was replaced with vernacular gabble that was tediously flat and boring when it was not ludicrous. Priests were converted into Protestant ministers, delivering commonplace sermons. Some venerated Saints were unceremoniously tossed out onto the scrap heap. But all these changes were relatively superficial.
If one considered the new doctrine critically, one immediately saw what had been the cardinal and most drastic change. The attitude toward the Jєωs that the Christian god had presumably ordained for nineteen centuries was reversed. The change was neatly illustrated by the Cardinal who is believed most likely to become the next Pope. He boasts that he is a faithful and practicing Jєω, and brazenly asserts that Christianity is merely a kind of auxiliary church by which deserving goyim are admitted to some of the privileges God irrevocably bestowed on his Chosen People. (4)
[size=-1](footnote 4. See Liberty Bell, May 1987, pp. 6-14.)[/size]
It was obvious, therefore, that the Roman Catholic Church had been captured by the Jєωs and would be operated in their interests. Strangely enough, this fact was generally ignored by even the most vehement adversaries of the "modernization." (5)
[size=-1](footnote 5. Mr. Compton, in the work cited in Note 3 supra, attributes the capture of the Church to a conspiracy that included Weishaupt's Illuminati, Aleister Crowley's Satanism, and other secret societies, including, of course, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, along the lines well known from the writings of Nesta Webster, Christina Stoddard ("Inquire Within"), Lady Queensboro, and many others. He carefully disregards the Jєωs, but a sheet reproduced from typewriting and of uncertain provenance, enclosed with the copy of his book sent to me, identifies Wojtyia (John Paul II) as a Jєω, son of a Kikess named Wanda Katz.)[/size]
Since I am certain that Christianity is a fundamental fact that must be taken into account in any worthwhile consideration of our present situation or attempt to foresee our probable future, I have devoted many pages in Liberty Bell to that subject, with special attention to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest and most influential of all Christian denominations. Most recently, in "The Stolen Church," December 1990, I recommended the The New Montinian Church, an impressive English translation of an important work by the Reverend D. Joaquin Sáenz y Arriaga, and in "The Vacant See," April-May 1991, I reported what were evidently the conclusions of a canon lawyer that the Papacy had been vacant since the death of Pius XII in 1958.
I was pleased when my opinion about the cardinal importance of the Roman Church in our plight today was corroborated from an unexpected source, Mr. Lawrence Patterson's Criminal Politics (P.O. Box 37812, Cincinnati, Ohio [45222]; monthly, $187.50 per annum).
Criminal Politics is devoted exclusively to finance and to consideration of the ways in which Americans may conserve what they have saved and still own, in spite of the Federal government. Since in countries like the United States and Soviet Russia economic laws have been nullified by a tyrannical government, it is necessary to consider political forces, and that includes Catholicism. The issue for April contains (pp. 12-17) an article entitled "The nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr: Catholicism and the Zionist War Against Our Cultural Standards."
After noting that the Vatican was once a strenuous opponent of the Communists, and now is virtually allied with them in promoting the "nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr," Mr. Patterson takes his departure from an astonishingly candid article published in what was then one of the most widely circulated periodicals, Look, (6) 25 January 1966. It was written by the magazine's senior editor, Joseph Roddy, and entitled "How the Jєωs Changed Catholic Thinking."
[size=-1](footnote 6. The paid circulation of Look at that time was over 7,500,000 copies of each issue; the magazine did not suffer from the indiscreet revelation--at least not immediately. In 1968, its circulation had increased by 200,000, but financial difficulties made it cease publication in October 1971, although its circulation had increased to almost 8,000,000 in 1970.)[/size]
Mr. Roddy, after noting that the American Jєωιѕн Committee and B'nai B'rith put pressure on the Vatican Council to alter Catholic doctrine in their favor, reported that the real author of the Council's surrender to Judaism was a French Jєω named Jules Isaac, who coöperated with a "Fifth Column" (7) of Marrano traitors in the Council, including the slimy Cardinal Bea, but the success of the work of subversion was to be attributed to a "priest spy," a Jesuit who served on the staff of Bea and shuttled back and forth between the Vatican and the American Jєωιѕн Committee in New York.
[size=-1](footnote 7. I do not like to see 'Fifth Column' used in this sense, a perversion of its original meaning. When the Spanish army was delivering Spain from Judaeo-Communist terror in 1936, General Franco, on whom the command had devolved, remarked that four columns of his troops were converging on Madrid, in which there was a 'fifth column' composed of the decent Spaniards in that territory, who, while impotent against the power of the Communist government, necessarily sympathized with the army that was fighting to free them and would assist its efforts whenever they feasibly could. A 'fifth column,' therefore, is not composed of traitors, but of patriots held in subjection by an alien power.)[/size]
According to Mr. Roddy, the decree of the Vatican Council drafted by Jules Isaac "would have gone down early," but for the "covert help" of the "priest-spy."
That seems implausible. It is hard to see how the "priest-spy" could have had the pivotal rôle attributed to him. When Roncalli, who, under the laws of the Church, was not even a Catholic, slithered onto the See of Rome as John XXIII, his election must have been procured by accomplices in the College of Cardinals, (8) and he almost certainly had in petto a scheme for capturing and Judaizing the Church, probably including the Vatican Council that he convened in 1962 and guided through its intermittent sessions to its consummation of the revolutionary take-over in 1965. Mr. Patterson notes that after Roncalli was elected Pope in 1958, the larger newspapers in this country dropped their neutral or mildly hostile attitude toward the Catholic Church and suddenly blossomed with bouquets for "good Pope John." The Jєωιѕн Lords of the American press must have received from their superiors advice that "Roncalli is our boy."
[size=-1](footnote 8. When the Cardinals meet to elect a new pope and are immured, there is always a period of frantic competition between various aspirants and their supporters, and political trading and retrading of votes until a compromise is reached or, if there is an unresolvable deadlock, an interim pontiff is elected to hold office while the factions regroup. A few wily intriguers, especially if well supplied with cash, can often determine the outcome of an election.)[/size]
The capture of the Church had already been planned before the Council got under way, and I cannot imagine how the "priest-spy" could have done more than arrange matters of detail or transport cash when he served as liaison between his Jєωιѕн employers in New York and important members of the Council. Only if millions or billions of dollars in real money were needed to consolidate the position of Roncalli and his accomplices, and were supplied from New York, could the messenger who delivered the bribes be said to have determined the decisions of the Council, but Mr. Roddy says nothing about that.
Mr. Roddy did not name the "priest-spy," who, he said, pretended to be a conservative Catholic but was really "100%" in the Zionist interest and might himself be a Jєω disguised as a Jesuit. He provided, however, a series of more or less enigmatic clues to the man's identity.
Mr. Patterson reports that his research has identified the "priest-spy" as Malachi Martin, alias (by his own admission) Michael Serafian, alias (by implication) F.F. Cartus, and (therefore) alias Timothy Fitzhαɾɾιs-O'Boyle.
Martin's career corresponds to the clues given by Roddy. He was a Jesuit, had been a professor in the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome (reputed to be a scholar of Semitic languages and an expert on the Dead Sea Scrolls), had migrated to New York, written for the Jєωιѕн periodical, Commentary, under an alias, a book, The Pilgrim, under another alias, and under his own name many articles as a "conservative Catholic" for Buckley's National Review, of which he was, for a time, the Religious Editor. Although neither Roddy nor Mr. Patterson mentions the even more significant fact, Malachi Martin claims to have been an intimate friend and advisor of Roncalli.
According to various reports, Martin, after he established himself in this country, left the priesthood and married. He has certainly produced under his own name an amazing number of presumably highly profitable books, all aimed at Catholics who have not abandoned the traditional faith of the Church. Whether he continues to write under pseudonyms, I do not know.
Now if Martin did indeed play an important rôle in betraying the Church into the hands of its inveterate enemies, he certainly knew what he was doing. Piers Compton quotes him as having predicted, at the time the Vatican Council completed its work of subversion in December 1965, "Well before the year 2000, there will no longer be a religious institute recognizable as the Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church of today.... There will be no centralized control, no uniformity in teaching, no universality in practice or worship, prayer, sacrifice, and priesthood."
He believed that his prophecy was being fulfilled. In his The Jesuits, the Society of Jesus, and the Betrayal of the Roman Catholic Church (New York, Simon & Schuster, 1987), he wrote:
Quote
[size=-1]'The extent of the damage produced in the Church....after 1965 can be gauged a mere twenty years later. Pope John Paul II now presides over a Church organization that is in shambles, a rebellious and decadent clergy, an ignorant and recalcitrant body of bishops, and a confused and divided assembly of believers. The Roman Catholic Church, which used to present itself as the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, appears now as a pluralistic, permissive, ecuмenical, and evolutionary ecclesial group.' (9)[/size]
[size=-1](footnote 9. In this book, he, a former Jesuit, accuses the Jesuits of having become a gang of conspiratorial Marxists engaged in promoting, under the guise of religion, a Communist dictatorship. He even avers that the Jesuits in the United States drew up detailed plans for the installation of "Maoist Marxism" in this country.)[/size]
In all writings published under his own name, so far as I know, Malachi Martin has consistently taken the position of a Catholic faithful to the Church's doctrine and traditions, estimating that about 40% of the present College of Cardinals are Christians, ridiculing American bishops who jabbered about "ending poverty" and "sharing the wealth" by pointing out that the Roman Church is the wealthiest body in the world, with assets totaling hundreds of billions of dollars and possibly amounting to two trillion dollars ($2,000,000,000,000), and insisting that "Christ never singled out the proletariat with a preferential opinion in their favor." The mission of the Church is exclusively spiritual and it has no competence or authority to pronounce on matters of economics or politics. (10)
[size=-1](footnote 10. For example, in an article in National Review, 5 January 1979, which I have consulted in my files of that publication, he wrote: "Over the last fifteen years, the Roman Catholic Church in the United States, under the leadership and authority of its bishops, has become mainly two things. It is, first and most stridently, a jumbled shop-front jammed with a motley array of political issues, civil squabbles, sociological experiments, and psychological theories. ¶ Second, and more poignantly, it is a gristmill grinding down the hope and enthusiasm of faithful followers who know that their bishops have neglected the purity of their faith and the practice of religion in their Church, in favor of such issues as environmental pollution, ethnic rights, land distribution, the Panama Canal, Rhodesian chrome, and the evils of U.S. Capitalism." In the remainder of the article, he does not explicitly identify all these activities as serving Communist ends, but rather conspicuously avoids considerations that would lâcher le mot.)[/size]
I have not seen his latest book, Keys of the Blood (New York, Simon & Schuster, 1990), which was reviewed by Paul A. Fisher in Christian News, 3 June 1991, and criticized by Mr. Patterson in the article I have cited. In this book, Martin, somewhat at variance with his earlier pronouncements, tells his readers that the world is now the prize which each of three reciprocally hostile organizations are tying to gain for itself, viz.:
Quote
[size=-1]'(a) A disintegrating Soviet Empire led by Mikhail Gorbachev; (b) transnationalists and internationalists (a generic characterization for international bankers and businesses affiliated with the Council on Foreign Affairs (CFR) and the Trilateral Commission (TLC), and (c) a deteriorating Roman Catholic Church, the principal institution of Christendom, led by Pope Paul II.' (11)[/size]
[size=-1](footnote 11. I quote from Mr. Fisher's review. Note that there is no mention of Jєωs, which would not have been tactful in a book published by Jєωs; but did the glaring omission have another motive? I gather from Mr. Fisher that Martin expects a "direct intervention of God" during the lifetime of the present Pope!)[/size]
That statement is the principal basis for Mr. Patterson's denunciation of Martin as a "fake conservative" and "double agent" of the Zionists, and he marshals abundant proofs that Wojtyia (John Paul II) is coöperating so closely with both Soviets, the "Trilateralists" and the Zionists in foisting the "nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr" on the civilized nations to reduce them to barbaric slavery that the Pope must be considered a servant or accomplice of all of the three aspects of what must be a single force bent on our enslavement and eventual extinction. He reasons that Martin's book must be intended to confuse traditional Catholics and other readers by deceiving them about our enemies and creating the deceptive illusion that three tentacles of the octopus are fighting each other.
I am not here concerned with establishing Martin's guilt or innocence, and I certainly shall not waste time in collecting and analysing the many books and articles published under his own name or in ascertaining whether or not he continues to publish divergent works under pseudonyms, but I shall point out that, so far as I can tell from the reviews, he is guilty of a certain duplicity in concealing in his latest book conclusions that he has stated elsewhere.
In an address reported by the Rocky Mountain News, 8 October 1982 (reproduced photographically in Christian News) he stated explicitly that "The Christian church is decaying, has nothing to say, and is on the way out." He added that the other great religions of the world, Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Shintoism, "are headed in the same direction as Christianity and even faster." He predicted the imposition of "a worldwide religion with one structure and institutions," managed by "one great bureaucracy. And out of it will emerge the ultimate disaster."
What is crucially significant in that speech is that he explicitly affirmed that the Jєωs' religion (the basis of their racial unity) is not in the least subject to change or decay and will always endure triumphantly. "It is irradicable, (12) indestructible," he affirmed, "there is no decay and nothing can destroy the soul of Judaism." (My italics.)
[size=-1](footnote 12. He means uneradicable.)[/size]
There you have it. There, stated with blinding clarity for all who think while reading, is an indication of who will own and enslave the world of tomorrow. No author, unwilling to bring upon himself the terrorists of the Jєωs' government in Washington, could have stated the fact more explicitly.
According to Mr. Lawrence, Martin, in his new book, certainly concealing or reversing his belief in an "ultimate disaster," not only regards the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr as inevitable, but lauds it a "Grand Design of God." And he says, "As to the time factor involved, those of us who are under 70 will see at least the basic structure of the new world government installed.... Those of us who are under 40 will surely live under its legislative, executive, and judicial authority and control."
And he could have added that Americans who are now under five will surely grow up to be imbecile creatures, so well trained that whenever they see or smell a Sheeny, they will automatically drop to their knees and knock their foreheads three times on the pavement in veneration of their living gods.
  
  
 
(http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/barred.JPG)
This article originally appeared in Liberty Bell magazine, published monthly by George P. Dietz from September 1973 to February 1999. For reprint information please write to Liberty Bell Publications (http://www.palladian.org/), Post Office Box 21, Reedy WV 25270 USA.
Copyright ©1999 Kevin Alfred Strom.  Back to Revilo P. Oliver Index (http://www.revilo-oliver.com/index.html)
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Nooseph Polten on November 18, 2017, 08:22:20 PM
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So if Fr. Pfeiffer is aware of Pablo's inappropriate and wrong actions, then why is Pablo still in charge of the seminary?
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What does this say of Fr. Pfeiffer's "intentions" when he leaves a QUESTIONABLE man in charge when he's out of town?
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I was talking about Francis, not Fr. pfeiffer.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 18, 2017, 08:26:13 PM
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I don't understand all the venomous calumny hurled in the general direction of Fr. Martin.
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I saw this sort of thing slung about years ago on Angelqueen and it made just as little sense there.
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What's up?
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I guess this kind of thing does not sit well with traditionalists:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Malachi_Martin_Footstone_2011C.jpg)

Takes a lot of nerve to walk away from his vocation, share a tombstone with a woman, and inscribe "Father" on it!

Chutzpah!
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)
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 18, 2017, 09:09:25 PM
I was talking about Francis, not Fr. pfeiffer.
.
The apostrophe means possessive plural: Be careful when judging others' intentions. 
Others' means two or more, or, the intentions of two or more other persons.
.
It's too late. The damage is already done. Plus, it fits the general M.O. of PtM, not the other two.
.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 18, 2017, 09:23:08 PM
I guess this kind of thing does not sit well with traditionalists:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Malachi_Martin_Footstone_2011C.jpg)

Takes a lot of nerve to walk away from his vocation, share a tombstone with a woman, and inscribe "Father" on it!

Chutzpah!
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)
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How do you figure it was his decision to "share a tombstone with a woman" when he was already dead and buried for over 2 years when she died and her name was carved on the other side?  The engraving was obviously done by two different carvers. The letters and numerals are not the same "font." The words on the right side are misaligned about 1/8" too low. He had a bad eye.
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I heard that while he stayed in a room in the NY home of a couple, he offered daily Mass there, but you're saying he abandoned his vocation. He told me that he asked Paul VI to be excused from his vows of poverty and obedience, but to retain his vow of chastity, and it was granted. Did you know that?
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 18, 2017, 09:36:22 PM
This article by Professor Oliver has something on Martin.
http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/church.htm

[size=-1](footnote 9. In this book, he, a former Jesuit, accuses the Jesuits of having become a gang of conspiratorial Marxists engaged in promoting, under the guise of religion, a Communist dictatorship. He even avers that the Jesuits in the United States drew up detailed plans for the installation of "Maoist Marxism" in this country.)[/size]
In all writings published under his own name, so far as I know, Malachi Martin has consistently taken the position of a Catholic faithful to the Church's doctrine and traditions, estimating that about 40% of the present College of Cardinals are Christians, ridiculing American bishops who jabbered about "ending poverty" and "sharing the wealth" by pointing out that the Roman Church is the wealthiest body in the world, with assets totaling hundreds of billions of dollars and possibly amounting to two trillion dollars ($2,000,000,000,000), and insisting that "Christ never singled out the proletariat with a preferential opinion in their favor." The mission of the Church is exclusively spiritual and it has no competence or authority to pronounce on matters of economics or politics. (10)
[size=-1](footnote 10. For example, in an article in National Review, 5 January 1979, which I have consulted in my files of that publication, he wrote: "Over the last fifteen years, the Roman Catholic Church in the United States, under the leadership and authority of its bishops, has become mainly two things. It is, first and most stridently, a jumbled shop-front jammed with a motley array of political issues, civil squabbles, sociological experiments, and psychological theories. ¶ Second, and more poignantly, it is a gristmill grinding down the hope and enthusiasm of faithful followers who know that their bishops have neglected the purity of their faith and the practice of religion in their Church, in favor of such issues as environmental pollution, ethnic rights, land distribution, the Panama Canal, Rhodesian chrome, and the evils of U.S. Capitalism." In the remainder of the article, he does not explicitly identify all these activities as serving Communist ends, but rather conspicuously avoids considerations that would lâcher le mot.)[/size]
I have not seen his latest book, Keys of the Blood (New York, Simon & Schuster, 1990), which was reviewed by Paul A. Fisher in Christian News, 3 June 1991, and criticized by Mr. Patterson in the article I have cited. In this book, Martin, somewhat at variance with his earlier pronouncements, tells his readers that the world is now the prize which each of three reciprocally hostile organizations are tying to gain for itself, viz.:[size=-1](footnote 11. I quote from Mr. Fisher's review. Note that there is no mention of Jєωs, which would not have been tactful in a book published by Jєωs; but did the glaring omission have another motive? I gather from Mr. Fisher that Martin expects a "direct intervention of God" during the lifetime of the present Pope!)[/size]
That statement is the principal basis for Mr. Patterson's denunciation of Martin as a "fake conservative" and "double agent" of the Zionists, and he marshals abundant proofs that Wojtyia (John Paul II) is coöperating so closely with both Soviets, the "Trilateralists" and the Zionists in foisting the "nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr" on the civilized nations to reduce them to barbaric slavery that the Pope must be considered a servant or accomplice of all of the three aspects of what must be a single force bent on our enslavement and eventual extinction. He reasons that Martin's book must be intended to confuse traditional Catholics and other readers by deceiving them about our enemies and creating the deceptive illusion that three tentacles of the octopus are fighting each other.
I am not here concerned with establishing Martin's guilt or innocence, and I certainly shall not waste time in collecting and analysing the many books and articles published under his own name or in ascertaining whether or not he continues to publish divergent works under pseudonyms, but I shall point out that, so far as I can tell from the reviews, he is guilty of a certain duplicity in concealing in his latest book conclusions that he has stated elsewhere.
In an address reported by the Rocky Mountain News, 8 October 1982 (reproduced photographically in Christian News) he stated explicitly that "The Christian church is decaying, has nothing to say, and is on the way out." He added that the other great religions of the world, Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Shintoism, "are headed in the same direction as Christianity and even faster." He predicted the imposition of "a worldwide religion with one structure and institutions," managed by "one great bureaucracy. And out of it will emerge the ultimate disaster."
What is crucially significant in that speech is that he explicitly affirmed that the Jєωs' religion (the basis of their racial unity) is not in the least subject to change or decay and will always endure triumphantly. "It is irradicable, (12) indestructible," he affirmed, "there is no decay and nothing can destroy the soul of Judaism." (My italics.)
[size=-1](footnote 12. He means uneradicable.)[/size]
There you have it. There, stated with blinding clarity for all who think while reading, is an indication of who will own and enslave the world of tomorrow. No author, unwilling to bring upon himself the terrorists of the Jєωs' government in Washington, could have stated the fact more explicitly.
According to Mr. Lawrence, Martin, in his new book, certainly concealing or reversing his belief in an "ultimate disaster," not only regards the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr as inevitable, but lauds it a "Grand Design of God." And he says, "As to the time factor involved, those of us who are under 70 will see at least the basic structure of the new world government installed.... Those of us who are under 40 will surely live under its legislative, executive, and judicial authority and control."
And he could have added that Americans who are now under five will surely grow up to be imbecile creatures, so well trained that whenever they see or smell a Sheeny, they will automatically drop to their knees and knock their foreheads three times on the pavement in veneration of their living gods.
  
  
 
(http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/barred.JPG)
This article originally appeared in Liberty Bell magazine, published monthly by George P. Dietz from September 1973 to February 1999. For reprint information please write to Liberty Bell Publications (http://www.palladian.org/), Post Office Box 21, Reedy WV 25270 USA.
Copyright ©1999 Kevin Alfred Strom.  Back to Revilo P. Oliver Index (http://www.revilo-oliver.com/index.html)
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That's interesting. Thank you. (Does this copy start at footnote 9? -- must be a glitch.)
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 18, 2017, 09:59:14 PM
I guess this kind of thing does not sit well with traditionalists:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Malachi_Martin_Footstone_2011C.jpg)

Takes a lot of nerve to walk away from his vocation, share a tombstone with a woman, and inscribe "Father" on it!

Chutzpah!
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Ta0X8K2vHCoY+Pp49P5reEmA+o8q0yr4kJAcRO/jp3B7UjES5sGHSzteKVi4rgJIPxJIh4Ckkmxs3j1rWCshTlPKwYs8I6NAkqH0Zqu10IAZJA3FrORp1+lSKCVSCIv0I6HStqWwTBAyERqSUQfAP4UGMS2IA7qBbZyhAe0zF2jxrO1bC2EBw4LeD66XoVrCSDrowZq3jYAyu5uXghyVSz7mW2PSlpI7zvI6gQbH0oKcbiwdJ3+3m9EwMnTVmG48A3e5tSVFnZ33t6+FqpxOIBG0D+JFBrEI0mY8NbTqfOlrUyCWdTsNrGSNQEglnDgNRmQ4LMQHiASxIggcpMkN3pC8Ils2JiEg3OS8s3+X36T0NVGsPDD7h2zFipidGEQJAYbXrFJYkocKIcGWf8A3CM3XUOWIeMOVLBWJiAk5RyBTs6iAE4cESZ2JJreHgqU7nESBDKyeoCSCOk1oP4PHzh2a4DixBaOxfypwKdw9t/P18amwsM2GItnJfkOoJM4fXX5B6PhirlMnkloYlLnYR1rIP3r6sB6hrgeclrVmLiKuAxgl/KG8R1brQsoCRtDyTJk+D6fSswFgM4Phs+50dx9KoDEDC1m3Njo42FNRiOPuNu/96DG+IgE+d+vkx8zQoFyzBvlLT4S81FHhgOCf3Mn5n6VrEazuCPX7NbwFC4sf7axQ4qDo/7ve3j2qoFV767wC3l99aPEQAB01P8AHjWsDD3l9zrFvCf2pqcp+F2v5xo77N0qwYh2Amel9Y8NKWxtt9+RaqAoBU928bbGjxFA2YzBafDcCY6VdCHE0n70tHSuD+LcP/6ZRb8yen50s3kK9FjBiHZm7M8v0n515/8AF7f0q9CVIt/zBs3T51L0R5nhsRaMFgyUqhRY5lHrukbDcvSeKxHVnSkJmyXMEWCbd9t5qnDSvJ7wDLhphioiNrsovoJc1Jh45Xm5QSnRIuJ5Sen0rxXcdQr4aTyJv+v+Kyne5Vurz/8AjWVOdROoZyQYS8Rym+up18hVSsAozEAqATFpG5bTo+pmuzxfBHDyYhIyuOvxeDMdpvUXEY6UlmIdyRdVj8Id2sXO13veFIgQqQgmQDmgF7FLAX0PlW04JKnPLYnlL+UMTs48aahOZQZGR9RKmHW4hrT1o8FRw3AJAWXOrkwMz3lzUsk67HZ/Cze8VlSRmSTropOpHX5dH9Ssajy0jpXmfwuknHU6WfD5XBHK4EEiU2mRXrMXBgGJ9LXevT47vGVjLtD/AFw93nAkLKMoMZs+S7djaxmqeKxQjIFl8ywgbObfL57VztVkAZSnOCDZZOVmIl0qAcbVTx6FLKwgocYclSmZaiChQYFynI86K6vWkPxsdXvEoyMCJPVMiGJJZ4jSh4jGyZXsVpSWBkqLSdA7T0ahPEgqw1OllZlSbAixndTd63xOGcYlCSlLYZMmMywMqoeUsTOigaoZiElaUJAcuSVAlgCkAMJLnwGUmWApOIrL7oqypCoVmPwkIK2zQ8pKZ+k0IUkrRiqYJxMMA6BJBfKTfNzGOh2pfEIdeCowQoqb/wDEoeLFYHlQIxMd8M4gZs6myiGQrKZEy2a9HlAl2a0+Rmzlyz1ricdPusQQD7xZGnxYj6dPSgx3M/216VFLxVMoh0hhA1WSWCU7l3Ag6bvVWGoOHneG3BYaGTS+EKAtRUHSrCKSAM2aYEC5H3at8PhKLA6JZR/UQHJ2Mz1pA7E5krSYJ5RaHffTozy1T5nALFviZp5vSjxENoI1fbUP0pIxmUBlzE2gBzcp83PYitRErEqRzLBOPiB3lgnGASDccoaA99TT8MEpDrXl94tOYkgxiZUEkfEAUlE6EExmNAzKSWzALWssGUcyVBrbqZ+mk03BwHAAWcoQULAAIULFQ2OjzBqCjHhBSzPFp5ikOzdR4ZutVYuIQPhJGvTak4SCpYIIZHg6iGLHonwltDVCrMTrAZofrs3pVoUsklI7B2nRm7xQISCGgy87/s4adqIBgAH5tCbam3mz71tRZP6Zdw3fXr9KBPEcQxQDl5lFLkkMAlSz4Mlu9UYOKCkEhnDjfKbONFNJH2OX7Q4cYow0KMKxGd+b4FiHMyw6u1WDiCcIqUQVJHN/zDg2u7R0pFKOMlRWE6Ky32bUy1/I1ocUS6ctlZRL6AklxDDTw2rXDcOU4iQcpzIykgzmQ5cuLnMY6daSvh8mKvEBgLyKEMEqSiWNmUkAnUC0VA9XFFJSDchw3QjRjfNd6xOMAtKSfiBsToGsNGHjlpOIk+9S0QYPdJh+1DxCVF1gDlWku7nKHBht1LsdbUHTWsxlTckF4YDVmkS9aysXckiWGhckeDjT+afwi05Q7EaecHt166PW8R2zBIA8I02by+tbQlTqulmJa0D+9ef/ABWG4cvcKS0WmD5mu1i4hZ7vIDD52eelq434qwwrBCSG5kgklgJuToBes5dUjxabfC6SQkH07WDN61XweG4zp/LCi5DO+vSXaWG1JCcwUUrYAlxoxAMC2wA0FT+6IYOSLnVhZ1dSxbxrx5R1dL+mV+pXl+6XrKUMdodQ6OI/9ays8Ye3Z4g+8DpLBJYupzm/KEps/Ug+NHhcGnDDu5KVPdwQWBJeSb7UhSyl0ps4KnE8peNh07VrG49a1kZkodjmAdknUsTLad66XKIkCTqGt1be0eNLxWctBcEdA8Tv1NP9/mK8y0p/OrOoAm0JsSS75aThELDgKk8xJDHsQkNFh0vWL1tXd/BRUrGUpTwjKHJLAKBPxGHJ7V7TGQ4kQ9v28t9a8Z+HOICcXKmwQRaLpux6eo8fVni2GpMNEDzr0+K/i55dpM2utyd7P3sQfGiGNlUgE/6iiBpOVSt4JAO9q3hoi+ltXtsw+lI9oYDpf8yHxEsWJKLBz+oOPE1tDcPEz5ggt7tWVT6qyoXbsR4uKbw+OpRUynCFFBtBBIPrr3qT2aQkYmJuQs6SUuRF5Sw7dKDg0KQspKQnMEl3+JaWQsxucksb1di7hvaPvMoYpUsFtQcpkRYiDaRO4qbEx1hRBSRyoUQVRzuEwNQQQb6X0X7FQUYqM0pUhWRgBlUVErHXlCJP+5rl7uIA9/iFg2TDBjrjA+LmoOfxHGf5allJCUKUFDUgHKYebGOtFhgElm3EvBzMQBe160FsFPP+adAD/qAjvSuFSEZ0ADKnIUFnGQlTBv8AbmyjoAZeYqjCWXys2jCC2sBthTCqCAWF930hhb77LwMV5hzeIESI008ao4pSQp2O0bsehF6o1wGCCWJAHgHGg2Z3HgdwyFgF0QQksD1cOWPmJ0rocKtCX3+Yny3mosdCCoFgTqReLMexO9qITw+A5UyVwr9bhsoIlRexlzeRtTBhnOASSCFk/wCY3wlIHwXvYxe+mJDFQu5F9RlSIcmW8ZD61vBxHPYXt8RL+PKz/wAVr6FmDigMAD2CdjYR6CqlKFwJaX7axYj5VHg4hDEtJeXPlbTVvnTFKzGCJnTS+o2NhvUG8bDD5g/dw/fXr93h9ocQlIzNABgXgsXcgfZ3q1KzmZQfdxBvsf3rm+1g+CsDYszMzw5Muw036Q+gXEY2QKUXgEkAAmOrgBoLdNaeOLnDSUfHYxlBZy7K2e12NS+08L/LxnAC/dq6sMpYb3zeVFx2KMiSmVoKVgXPKQ86OlxRVoUcy/yhIAfowUGYwwaIvQDHC0hY/MAsOZL2Fx01vG9Q4mIs4YGVT4psILLgiWDjDe7fQM9nDKFJUCCnEISIJCFc4LgkMApnBsPCrtDcPjOVCkJgwkkOYFi52Cgw1FIGPP5mzZSY+J7RLu82cXpPDYeRWGljkUBiOPyq92QseLpP/Y7UIH+QhLc5xEh9XGK58XB+5qbV0OC4sfCASczZvy5mBa76jRpAerFFwxMu4mf5/t4chGIUYgWgFlnIpNg4+FQm4bKd/CqGUJMP0mW13+4vVlNHYjgidHdja1cP8TZDhSCQVhw0gMq3+6zDzrtqW7vroRGxj7tauB+LJwkgs5WB3g/VqmfVI8qQBzB20VIDEC82P1iixU4YDYbhSiAXscs+NjbYUKiVQNr6aP03/mpU4wBI1EiHByzHmPKDXjmVatrpnhF6JSRuw/espH+Idf8A2/8AjWVfxNxTxa+bMHA2LM4AGgAJva01OUAkhykRYM4OramK1jzAe8ai2/iJH1paUZQAwY2ALwWgTv8AOuOweCCtWYgSphqQlmSDsxy/+XSuhw+dlSQ0O99foLf2EYySMRyCvKBZiEATpcX8N6cOJBZgUjIxD5iS5ktDiz9663rbS38Pf6ylEgOjQ3Lgkho1Ebv2r0YeGcDT7s9eT9iL/wA9MPBFgBoW9Ntq9difC7OLtq+1v2rv4dXFzy7EniLkpJZQQbfEpmI6OQPs0zicYAi75socC4ck/wDEz41IMIkm8rQpLOCUoOG7BnjKWhzptRY5hDhiFv8AColnU5IYn83r4V1lRiMXmUAASCkqBSG5iw7h9TtpTMQEF2cjoD2EwA/1oUAe+SqWCSSA/wARYJzRtm6uT2p/FrIcuS0sLnXQevfSgnRjoyBQQTfMAA6Sl3JBLQQZG8O4pgIfMAZkmHl9dw+tIShCU5VjlcwxklyosJc5jAme1ZwuIoJGYErSEhbjVknZvzXqbFS8NJTkygFs1mZ4JItcanSufw631JDAhxBBHKdiL/PUU1ue5EXD66VNwySFN8QRhhCTl2Jdy86SwsW1Am1UDEc2U95DFi7KtrPWDaj96FBJhlMbbt9PKtp4gEFZBeBIIsS1x1UfE7UHDBsJA1CEhurJHd3BjyegcOHDdz07eV/40Vh4IiRZ9OtZ72SPTU3+e9ZipJhQeX2cQKoZ7sEkk/pEMDJfaPimt4YLqF2QkzoQV+t9IoEqKQ51USdYACToQPhNOwyVLCSCIJdrM0XMyqOla+kaxFAwGkQRvOrE2NNQhQDBzIL/AMG4mhThJl1SHIYbWZ3YD9t60tdmiWcXv/6iLeFRWLUlAClSBBMv8TD4XN4HXasx+JQoKBDgAFTpOrlP5eYuOojvU3HYgUkjNOZBY9FpketungC0hKsQEhylF7tKYcuZapsAlSSVJAGhIy98s2NrPvdoYnFBQDuIuxGtxGgc1MvGbExJAUyANP1RqfzDymBTeFwm94kqcAsLAMSFqYaArUS3+1O1Niz378y2cAEEEgZZcsdG+Z2pScdBzL5szhKhkU8tlGXKCpTEF2sXD1iUJQCS2QOZsL/zBqXhilTqzl1qzHKZHwsCoG7JD9X0mrsPCklIIKSG7BrAievltWwhIVHxSzKsSySw9HFD7PWMiQGdmFg6UkgKaJYjz0ehwkvil3/05Ig/EdCHjc/Wgs9mJwlFRDZgxBcgczjMBaf1dLxR8XxCLvykO+hSA8eAcqsPlzeEwygqCmZOEjDOWxKc73EXtMEUSifdIVqnAyzDulLGBulurk1ZRUQ7kmQbToNxqwEkfxwfxSgqwksHZThnsAXPZ282rv4ScqAHsPie0AbW73ryv4qxlMkBYLKEMIDguQS0EW61jP8AjVnbiJxiyUEAqbS427a61Ox0hjclnFiw+tV+8S4UBLEQYcpvOsv61PiKJi4Icm++jwQSL7V4ouXtGccCPr/FZVRw0fo9P5rKu8V+Mxay/KzXcToS4L+Gn7swlh5ZQAj/AJSx9TtvpRY2IDHmk6b823eLUsgkMIgMzxaQD9+IrnsrFYqioFwE7uf7adt3puGXChDBr7EAvBe7CYjWkYwgyQzWggG7vZ+tawFZ7ONS5nQz6iIrW7omnX9hf6rEsoSLRBIBvufDwr2mEsECdZBFgbzM14j2Osf1CH1SqHkNmkjWx1ia9phTDsZ10nzFevw/xYybK2zAABsROH4K93zE9M9rcrPW8fEYsGJUpmzRldwSbEyP7zQlJKVANmUtK2eOXJDs35NtbXFGvDKnIYnMFH/iMurbfPauqAxXSVJEqLEH9QKlBQt+WCeh8i4hSoaXLKDxpPgJ/mtKJKkwAUgnpMQdS2o2qjiMchATl5rDpcSSN5cCg5y8Q5c2VJKCp3VlASkq5wySXgQ36vFgJCUuQC0gWBIDsddW82rOKJ93Ahw76sUkuQNWL6TQ4gMxYtoXDO/Rn9KyoMTGS5GV0pGcE7p0u5I9etArEUFEGFjKWe+c5UuWglQY3Znmmn4gWHwkGIJJ+Tad6ThYI5y6pyi4fktIh3USJOhNzQOw5IT+bMUMVFsyU53cCRll21ArWHjQCAyTLecdNRHrR4SMqXVmcrKwQEuCRlaeVymLNdnp3A8IyUpJBYEEvrBOzhyPOgW6XDgPHq0iGpqQoJLFIOU5T1ALdg4FOxkJSIl4uPVqgxsUgHIApb2A5QWjNHXWSPGr0MTiQAn3g7jDkF1bXL76mixiXBJXmc5XySWID5Q7TvLxpWLwzAZm7wBaQe09utGpCpZ4AOpDgvsdh61pDJ6sND01/ftase4sHvqY2+7aUo8UH63KWsTN3gFh302reWWb6Fx8wbP0rKpsTHZYhyp9rpEiO/jRYeJmQFuoJBUNAOQrSYmHezeNL43AUSDhwvDciHAzKQDYScoVFawOHZHuRYrUkOHASpeo2CSdR3qCvh+IRkw2fLiMA4+HMCQ5d+jyHahUgCWJuG1IBIFjNulwamKT7rES5KsylIIDZiTmSUXPKo2B/I9XIUB8JgAADoGA9A3faqMxcdmeMxZI6kEnoPhJ8xU+Ni8wQQoAvlzahJGxfWDWY6c5w8uiibGwCx5cwocBWZbkKB+FPJDGVlzEsB/160FeWSQw6xCYvtIfXSpUca2YlKwoBPKWchTBAuZJDdxLPRgcoUkwZHU3dr2Hq1L4YOM+U/6gWU5SIBygDfKBmIGpqja8d3AT+bKUsLlmAaJcG9qHB4vLmOVSggEkBgUhJJUSX3sxLsWpuLwai+Izg4gVlaSk4Yw3ys/XtOtLHDkYagpBIxcTMpkEkITlawLZssOzZlGCGoLM7pLFksS4H25PWvL/AIqw+RAD/E7Dsf716Ja3TtvoTNcT8UoDYTQ5JJexy6tpPrWfJ/GkeaSpip3fY21/d31etYWKyel9hqxLyNQa0lIS6VFObKRAf9Wukvsem+BZygEcoJ9W0fRn6PXh1p0TLx8Rz/lKPXMmfSsq9GEAByLPXfrasq/8TjQAfEFM5JhvBi1KWQWBh2sMtnt00j0rpHhkDmUsJTJI5sxgyVZe5npUmPglIGU5Un4cxYmJ6FqnGxdDOEDAh4Gttulr2pCEpCmZQcElQgASPDYO/hVYzIDXLOHgRoMsiJvEO1T4odakBglDWchWq94tc6VuYzR9q/YGC3EYZVfnZ9XQpm1sl3bTpXsUEfY2t61472WsK4rDZ7kkXYFCh5OWr2CjDEB97PtHavR45+LGXbeIppjxLbai2nnRjFcSJv8AN9LaPQlobYbftS0nsN+uvlXRlZgpzMImRN22Hl9xViuGDAb6Q43mubmIkO+/2NqcVlV9Nvu3WKAMPD16uYEl58766UGIZLAszW8N9PpTOIS0uwe331pSkqAJF2i8ks47tt/coHcs19Lw+/gackZicz6/Um1BgtJ2UAC7hsgNrlz60hMsCdSCSGcBKspdoeFf9iKgvPECQB3bX6+dKOIog/T+PNulL4dBGU5ozkKPQZw1rQPLrWAnKQPiblcCSSoB4tAnbrV2MxsUKSSToQktaIA10M9O1QrwgfyILP8Al0EtIeq0qzpUbpc5IaMqWdhvPRxtUCyy1JHwllXeHSFARuoecdIGYSAB/pIIMBwB/wDy+9awcMLthIAH+0X/APG0PRoBIv8AmA0sVtGtmvt5mvEUgphw6gZF3ypkdWDRegPDwhHLhpMMQwynslDk2cGL1XhgPmT1cGWGmkibvtUPC4nKkuQSkF23A+4o08QSzNBZwSYIcawcpHW4qwPw8RKicqhmDXA8r2/fyLDDuNWkCI+zbtU6cUk5R+oAQLFwT3+g8tJ4gsSA5ISUjqYYnQW8jQMTYAnRvCX0u8N/FGS49D4gP4/x2pP9RmgGM0MHdDJI6GT5NWZinN8JL+YKjlN/Ai/KaCn3iCA4DkaWJ6zrWEgaixG5jvS+FACjqR9QkiOjts7xpR4bW20/k1RpEKLSBJ0+tbz5fo0a2djt2omadR0kue+n30XmTPQZtolvkfKgdg8UR8RUf7w7iR828x4jiA2UPcGzf2MOXpBRy5lEMEudm7jzrWGoKMmWdr3IFwTHZ9auw8LE9C9urWFreted/FPESkOblyzsCJ1cnyr0Txr5WLgR4tXl/wAQJBWlJuFudptp0rn5L+NHEUCAk3BAdQGhMzeQBo43Gq8cTmwyQZBBuzROm5nYPRYyDbKWAljDvPaXIOg3p6MhGRQBSeVyHZ2AYF3lvSvJ26lhZ/8AuGsp6lJScpRIgsQzjabVlOFRvHwwTplzSFOXt+ZohtrUICc2cAu2VydZBYMzAUGDiEpJfMQGLaECX6Hf+a1iOkuQQ92ME7hjem6bGVtBJV/yu/e4vdw7TR4auYQAzAtOruQbj10qZWGGPKLzNnDeN6PFx+kKlgN3HYWas8qbawOLTh4mYc2VdxHLlYgkl2/NtI716XhPbacROf3ayPD5Zvv5+M94cyikKAuYc22DNa3Wq8AuHTchlOwcajq3j2NdsfJ60zJt6RH4rwD+XFBuSAgwC2izBY6U9Ht7CdsigQX+G+v08K81kUhISEhtSCM0hwYHgA2vSsJAOk7S2r6kn72qXzZLcY9Vg+3MGWC40yE/KPOsP4o4ZABOJl2cMDt01+3ryKcMBXQnmLdJPkTRY2OgjKcN5EHcODD3/erPNanGPUY34gwdMS0jlUA/Yisw/b+AQB71JAmQXGm2of1ry/EYYCcrkwzMBqfBjt3pC8FJDDcFnGwMEOWaWB8qs81W4var9sYBMKSWDCG5Seokel6JPtDBIjET+zDt66Oa8hhcGo5UpZ5ZSrCCbX0Z9fU8/GBDMllRcCTJLjyPh5ank2cXv8L2hggf6mGAeqfHSgHtbhXYY+FOmdMtNnrwpwio5ArXNcgOyiw07daoRwK/1qmIVL9jptvT5NHF7zF9qcOBlONhMdcwvGupqNftDCywoFpLKBa03tA9K8sg5QBlTILlv9rW3YkAn0ihC3SAAwdpAZUvMMdB4dKx81/RxemVx+C0YiS+xtL7xNJT7WQ55rbq2LuxO4Fec4lDPDkhyzRHSf57ikIbMczsP2iNNfuz5qlj2P8AX4ZIAxE2sD6OKbw3GIzfGmAOYFoGl9GrxayGCcxZ3JZjDlNi2vWt4vCkgLzEByAAWnVmLffjWp5Ti9ynEQ750kvcqHpMeFaQMLRSRLqZQkuZu+1eL4PhUs+UpI+LMQS4Tq9o0h3N9A4ngAwCllpAzSnsfCr8sXg+g8KUOmUwxYGHAABg7BmEU3FSgp+IEzqJe4BJe5r5dh8NkIKUpSpiAnIA5yn8yQzO0nfW4ergXwveBKgQoDMGys199RBGorVzTi+jYCx+oeb731aBRYmIH08N/P518vRhpWouvLoGuozpv96VvEw2AIeRlU8Mez3hxp3p8hp9RUoNCgdH6UsqAkKDsIJ/mvly+CJYgkvZUhm6lgPPWtq9m5Ugqxea7IfNl8md9qc9/Rp9PU2UOUiJn1260spAL50u7mf+Xj+Y+lfMDhB3S4Fpudz4+FEjCc8yiQBACS+7OXBD2cU+SHF9OGOC7LSAALEes968r+OsLMrBAKczLN5VOGCIvEidDeuF/h+HmSSMyewBG4kQ3T609ROHIQDsB9LSIlrG1ZvmmtLJ79hWCZDAhL3sLW6QXPXamY+MGDJMkgvYmHh+gF9BSzxKihSXIKp3SZB8O/8ANMOIQcNSQp2LA67fKwrl/pb2McSBDt0CmA8NKysVi8Q55T5N6GsrOv8AJNQz+nCScqeYjpMfyN7VmMgpQ4s5DJLQPIftFbxMVi0l9yOo2pOFxDLILlrOS3xASNb71c8fo7CpLjRh8Tlv09GaB6nWgOEHA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)
He became a secular priest, the older woman was his housekeeper for a very long time, and once holy orders has been given it cannot be removed.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: JPaul on November 19, 2017, 01:33:51 PM
He became a secular priest, the older woman was his housekeeper for a very long time, and once holy orders has been given it cannot be removed.
Well they probably could not do anything untoward in the grave any way,but people do have family plots, and in some cases non-family members are allowed to be buried in them, with the permission of the family or owners of the grave.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 19, 2017, 01:40:01 PM
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How do you figure it was his decision to "share a tombstone with a woman" when he was already dead and buried for over 2 years when she died and her name was carved on the other side?  The engraving was obviously done by two different carvers. The letters and numerals are not the same "font." The words on the right side are misaligned about 1/8" too low. He had a bad eye.
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I heard that while he stayed in a room in the NY home of a couple, he offered daily Mass there, but you're saying he abandoned his vocation. He told me that he asked Paul VI to be excused from his vows of poverty and obedience, but to retain his vow of chastity, and it was granted. Did you know that?
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I guess people need heroes to hang on to.

If you did not find the Angelqueen info persuasive, no point in beating a dead horse.

For me, he was a taxi driver in secular clothes, who left his vocation, and capitalized on a trad market who liked what he had to say.

There wasn't much traditional about him.

For anyone who wants to learn more, here is the link to the Angelqueen Files:

http://angelqueen.org/malachi-martin-files/
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Matthew on November 19, 2017, 02:18:34 PM
Here are the Malachi Martin Files in a more convenient form:

Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 19, 2017, 04:08:25 PM
Perhaps all this info about b. Martin belongs in a new thread.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: JPaul on November 19, 2017, 04:38:25 PM
Perhaps all this info about b. Martin belongs in a new thread.
Indeed.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: hollingsworth on November 19, 2017, 05:20:55 PM
Are some of you people listening to yourselves? This thread is just an endless string of wandering and, often, nonsensical discussion, with frequent side trips to other topics.
It was started by a guy who has since been banished from CI.  It continues through 8 pages of essential banality.  It's working on 4800 hits and obviously headed for more.  The so-called "seminary" under discussion is an already discredited institution, whose "Resistance" priests can't stay on the premises long enough to properly form their rag-tag assemblage of seminarians.  The one candidate, whom their dubious training regimen has managed to finally cough up, leaves of his own accord, and casts about frantically for an authentic bishop to ordain him. (Maybe he should search on Ebay.)
Now, as posting exhaustion apparently sets in, a few of you have begun to chew on the memory of Malachi Martin, and are virtually trampling on his grave.
As Padre Pio was said to have declared during the 2nd Vatican Council, "Please let in end!"
 
 
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: JPaul on November 19, 2017, 05:48:56 PM
Are some of you people listening to yourselves? This thread is just an endless string of wandering and, often, nonsensical discussion, with frequent side trips to other topics.
It was started by a guy who has since been banished from CI.  It continues through 8 pages of essential banality.  It's working on 4800 hits and obviously headed for more.  The so-called "seminary" under discussion is an already discredited institution, whose "Resistance" priests can't stay on the premises long enough to properly form their rag-tag assemblage of seminarians.  The one candidate, whom their dubious training regimen has managed to finally cough up, leaves of his own accord, and casts about frantically for an authentic bishop to ordain him. (Maybe he should search on Ebay.)
Now, as posting exhaustion apparently sets in, a few of you have begun to chew on the memory of Malachi Martin, and are virtually trampling on his grave.
As Padre Pio was said to have declared during the 2nd Vatican Council, "Please let in end!"
  
 
:laugh1: :laugh2: :laugh1: :laugh2:
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 19, 2017, 05:56:31 PM
Are some of you people listening to yourselves? This thread is just an endless string of wandering and, often, nonsensical discussion, with frequent side trips to other topics.
It was started by a guy who has since been banished from CI.  It continues through 8 pages of essential banality.  It's working on 4800 hits and obviously headed for more.  The so-called "seminary" under discussion is an already discredited institution, whose "Resistance" priests can't stay on the premises long enough to properly form their rag-tag assemblage of seminarians.  The one candidate, whom their dubious training regimen has managed to finally cough up, leaves of his own accord, and casts about frantically for an authentic bishop to ordain him. (Maybe he should search on Ebay.)
Now, as posting exhaustion apparently sets in, a few of you have begun to chew on the memory of Malachi Martin, and are virtually trampling on his grave.
As Padre Pio was said to have declared during the 2nd Vatican Council, "Please let in end!"
  
 
Regarding fr. Mbadugha, do you even read?
Everything you said about him is completely false.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 19, 2017, 09:07:32 PM
Regarding fr. Mbadugha, do you even read?
Everything you said about him is completely false.
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Is it a coincidence that the thread about Fr. Mbadugha is also the thread about Malachi Martin?
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Maybe this is the thread where everyone can come to complain about a priest?
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: AJNC on November 19, 2017, 09:44:44 PM
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Is it a coincidence that the thread about Fr. Mbadugha is also the thread about Malachi Martin?
.
Maybe this is the thread where everyone can come to complain about a priest?
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Malachy Martin was brought into this thread because he too was present/involved in Traditional Catholic priestly ordinations, and perhaps even had dealings with Fr. Mbadugha's ordaining bishop.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: AJNC on November 19, 2017, 09:52:49 PM
I believe the seminarian in question spent his first few years at the SSPX seminary in Australia but saw the liberalism and wanted to join OLMC. And received the rest of his formation there.
Apparently it was good enough for the sede bishop to feel comfortable ordaining him.
I have been given to understand that this same seminary has discharged all it's Indian students. Must be a pretty mixed up place.  Would a liberal Indian Catholic leave the thriving Novus Ordo Church in his country to join an outfit run by the SSPX of all people?. A ticket to a better life abroad? Be a Novus Ordo cleric today in the Third World and the entire world opens up to you.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 19, 2017, 09:56:18 PM
Here are the Malachi Martin Files in a more convenient form:
.
It appears to be done (at least in one part) in chronological order, but there are a lot of dates missing there.
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John G. makes a big deal out of how an exorcist must have permission or approval from the "local ordinary" before he can perform an exorcism. He never alludes to any kind of jurisdiction that comes from the Church automatically because of the need and request of the person or the person's family or friends, so it would appear that he denies any possibility of anything like that jurisdiction being "supplied" in that way, such as can be the case with any Catholic priest who needs jurisdiction to give absolution when he receives "supplied jurisdiction" by the fact that a penitent asks him to hear his confession; or even by merely waiting in line for confession the penitent's "asking" does not have to be literal.
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Can anyone here explain this?  Can anyone say what the essential criteria is for a priest to be able to perform an exorcism?
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Does he need to be "under a bishop" with local jurisdiction, or not?
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If a priest engages a subject for exorcism without the approval of the local bishop, what could be the result?
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Why does the local ordinary have to give his approval?
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Can there ever be a situation where the local ordinary's approval is not obtained but an exorcism is done anyway?
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Is that impossible, absolutely, 100%, for sure? Or not?
.
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Regarding how "appropriate" this question is for this thread, it seems to me that whether a priest can provide absolution (a sacrament) because of supplied juirisdiction is not unrelated to whether a priest can be ordained (a sacrament) by a bishop who does not have the approval or permission of the local ordinary. Similarly, performing an exorcism (not a sacrament) is not totally a different thing in regards to the necessity to obtain the permission or approval of the local ordinary.
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After all, isn't this what the 1988 so-called excommunications of "the Six" was all about -- they did not have the approval of the Pope.
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Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 19, 2017, 10:03:55 PM
I have been given to understand that this same seminary has discharged all it's Indian students. Must be a pretty mixed up place.  Would a liberal Indian Catholic leave the thriving Novus Ordo Church in his country to join an outfit run by the SSPX of all people?. A ticket to a better life abroad? Be a Novus Ordo cleric today in the Third World and the entire world opens up to you.
You are exactly right.
Most Americans don't understand this, and some like to complain a lot.

Martin died in July of 1999.  Adamson wasn't consecrated until September.  IF he had any dealings with martin at all, it wasn't while Adamson was a bishop. 

Talking about Martin doesn't belong in this thread.  Martin has nothing to do with fr. Mbadugha.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 19, 2017, 10:14:16 PM
I have been given to understand that this same seminary has discharged all [its] Indian students. Must be a pretty mixed up place.  Would a liberal Indian Catholic leave the thriving Novus Ordo Church in his country to join an outfit run by the SSPX of all people?. A ticket to a better life abroad? Be a Novus Ordo cleric today in the Third World and the entire world opens up to you.
.
I recall reading that this "all its Indian students" thing might have been a misunderstanding. There were several Indian seminarians who came to the SSPX in Australia as a group, and when some of them didn't work out the rest of them were dismissed too, because it appeared they all had much of the same problem (whatever that was -- something to do with intention and purpose for attending the non-Novus Ordo training).  But that doesn't mean the seminary therefore discharged all their Indian students such as others as well who had not been among that particular group. 
.
In other words, going around saying that this seminary in Australia has become ideologically unforgiving toward all Indian seminary applicants is presuming they have developed some kind of racism or discrimination policy against anyone Indian. Is that a fair assessment?
.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 19, 2017, 10:17:26 PM
You are exactly right.
Most Americans don't understand this, and some like to complain a lot.

Martin died in July of 1999.  Adamson wasn't consecrated until September.  IF he had any dealings with martin at all, it wasn't while Adamson was a bishop.

Talking about Martin doesn't belong in this thread.  Martin has nothing to do with fr. Mbadugha.
.
You're right, it has nothing to do with Fr. Mbadugha, but it has something to do with jurisdiction. 
.
And did Fr. Mbadugha receive priestly ordination under the jurisdiction of the local ordinary or not?

Whether it has nothing to do with Fr. Mbadugha or not doesn't exclude whether it has something to do with his ordination.
.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 19, 2017, 10:37:49 PM
.
You're right, it has nothing to do with Fr. Mbadugha, but it has something to do with jurisdiction.
.
And did Fr. Mbadugha receive priestly ordination under the jurisdiction of the local ordinary or not?
.
Whether it has nothing to do with Fr. Mbadugha or not doesn't exclude whether it has something to do with his ordination.
.
Completely off topic.
This is the last of your posts I will reply to.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: AJNC on November 20, 2017, 12:15:18 AM
.
I recall reading that this "all its Indian students" thing might have been a misunderstanding. There were several Indian seminarians who came to the SSPX in Australia as a group, and when some of them didn't work out the rest of them were dismissed too, because it appeared they all had much of the same problem (whatever that was -- something to do with intention and purpose for attending the non-Novus Ordo training).  But that doesn't mean the seminary therefore discharged all their Indian students such as others as well who had not been among that particular group.
.
In other words, going around saying that this seminary in Australia has become ideologically unforgiving toward all Indian seminary applicants is presuming they have developed some kind of racism or discrimination policy against anyone Indian. Is that a fair assessment?
.
Some years ago, 4 seminarians from the Bombay Archdiocesan seminary went to Australia. 3 quit the place and returned home. They quit. They were not discharged. Two, if not all three of them, are now N.O. priests. The third one, already ordained a Deacon, had major health problems which have affected his priestly ordination. The Rector at that time was Fr Scott.
The latest discharges have taken place under the current Rector.
There will be two sides to the story. That of the seminary officials and that of the discharged students. People will of course presume whatever they want.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Gwaredd Thomas on November 20, 2017, 08:06:32 AM
Regarding fr. Mbadugha, do you even read?
Everything you said about him is completely false.
"Maybe he should search on eBay."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: AlligatorDicax on November 20, 2017, 11:02:16 AM
Tradplorable has been banned.

Well, well, well!  Reading that has brightened my day substantially.  The end of a 76-day span, churning out postings at an average of nearly 8 per day, indicating a preoccupation with quantity not  quality, and featuring juvenile rudeness and nonsensically calling years-established members "trolls".  I originally thought his user-name was a defiant response to an extremely ill-advised public remark by a widely disliked candidate for U.S. national office.  But it turned out that "deplorable" would accurately describe his(?) behavior on CathInfo.

Otherwise, my prospects for today remain grim, trying to hear myself think despite the cacophony of chain-saws performing prolonged tree-trimming on the property where I'm typing this.

Whatever happended to the red slashed-circle symbol that was displayed on the CathInfo profile pages for members who've been banned?   Was that 1 of your customizations of MercuryBoard that has no equivalent on SMF?   His(?) C.I. profile-page still shows him(?) as a "Full Member", as if he's merely taking a break from C.I. on his own initiative.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Gwaredd Thomas on November 20, 2017, 11:26:32 AM
Well, well, well!  Reading that has brightened my day substantially.  The end of a 76-day span, churning out postings at an average of nearly 8 per day, indicating a preoccupation with quantity not  quality, and featuring juvenile rudeness and nonsensically calling years-established members "trolls".  I originally thought his user-name was a defiant response to an extremely ill-advised public remark by a widely disliked candidate for U.S. national office.  But it turned out that "deplorable" would accurately describe his(?) behavior on CathInfo.

Otherwise, my prospects for today remain grim, trying to hear myself think despite the cacophony of chain-saws performing prolonged tree-trimming on the property where I'm typing this.

Whatever happended to the red slashed-circle symbol that was displayed on the CathInfo profile pages for members who've been banned?   Was that 1 of your customizations of MercuryBoard that has no equivalent on SMF?   His(?) C.I. profile-page still shows him(?) as a "Full Member", as if he's merely taking a break from C.I. on his own initiative.
For someone who is rather new to this site, would someone please explain to me who this "Tradplorable" bloke is? Whoever this chap is he/she sounds like he/she has been up to a bit of mischief, what?
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 20, 2017, 12:29:04 PM
Well, well, well!  Reading that has brightened my day substantially.  The end of a 76-day span, churning out postings at an average of nearly 8 per day, indicating a preoccupation with quantity not  quality, and featuring juvenile rudeness and nonsensically calling years-established members "trolls".  I originally thought his user-name was a defiant response to an extremely ill-advised public remark by a widely disliked candidate for U.S. national office.  But it turned out that "deplorable" would accurately describe his(?) behavior on CathInfo.

Otherwise, my prospects for today remain grim, trying to hear myself think despite the cacophony of chain-saws performing prolonged tree-trimming on the property where I'm typing this.

Whatever happended to the red slashed-circle symbol that was displayed on the CathInfo profile pages for members who've been banned?   Was that 1 of your customizations of MercuryBoard that has no equivalent on SMF?   His(?) C.I. profile-page still shows him(?) as a "Full Member", as if he's merely taking a break from C.I. on his own initiative.
Off topic.  Please open a different thread if you want to bash someone.  Better yet, PM Matthew.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 20, 2017, 12:30:15 PM
For someone who is rather new to this site, would someone please explain to me who this "Tradplorable" bloke is? Whoever this chap is he/she sounds like he/she has been up to a bit of mischief, what?
Off topic.  Please open a new thread or, better yet, PM eachother.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Gwaredd Thomas on November 20, 2017, 12:39:05 PM
Off topic.  Please open a new thread or, better yet, PM eachother.
What in blinkin' blue blazes are you talking about? I was replying to "AlligatorDicax's post", not you! So I would appreciate it if you would mind your own business and stop telling others what they should do or not do.
Title: O.P. Banned/Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: AlligatorDicax on November 20, 2017, 03:32:36 PM
Off topic.  Please open a different thread if you want to bash someone.  Better yet, PM Matthew.

Well!  CathInfo seems increasingly to be drawing impertinent newbies.  This one a CathInfo member for only 134 days thus far (counted hastily).  You seem to have overlooked some extenuating circuмstances or facts:

Tradplorable has been banned.

•  It was Tradplorable who rudely started this topic with an unjustifiable insult (i.e., he is its original poster).

•  It was Matthew who chose to announce the banning in the midst of this topic (reply #60).  Perhaps he had decided not to give Tradplorable the ego-trip of seeing a topic devoted entirely to himself, which he'd could link to while lamenting his victimhood from the isolation & comfort of other forums.

•  Matthew can loosen his observance of customary netiquette, in ways that dare to risk irritating a newbie, because he is the owner-moderator of CathInfo.

Reading that [banning announcement in reply #60] has brightened my day substantially.  The end of a 76-day span, churning out postings at an average of nearly 8 per day, indicating a preöccupation with quantity not quality [....]

•  I simply followed-up Matthew's posting, by commenting on his welcome action in the same topic in which he announced it.  Which provides me with a limited exemption, long established by Internet custom(s), to your complaint that my reply #131 is "off topic".
Title: Re: O.P. Banned/Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Gwaredd Thomas on November 20, 2017, 04:54:01 PM
Well!  CathInfo seems increasingly to be drawing impertinent newbies.  This one a CathInfo member for only 134 days thus far (counted hastily).  You seem to have overlooked some extenuating circuмstances or facts:

•  It was Tradplorable who rudely started this topic with an unjustifiable insult (i.e., he is its original poster).

•  It was Matthew who chose to announce the banning in the midst of this topic (reply #60).  Perhaps he had decided not to give Tradplorable the ego-trip of seeing a topic devoted entirely to himself, which he'd could link to while lamenting his victimhood from the isolation & comfort of other forums.

•  Matthew can loosen his observance of customary netiquette, in ways that dare to risk irritating a newbie, because he is the owner-moderator of CathInfo.

•  I simply followed-up Matthew's posting, by commenting on his welcome action in the same topic in which he announced it.  Which provides me with a limited exemption, long established by Internet custom(s), to your complaint that my reply #131 is "off topic".
"Well!  CathInfo seems increasingly to be drawing impertinent newbies".

Gosh, I certainly hope I don't fall into that category. I must admit I was a bit peeved when someone who I was not communicating with decides to insert themselves and tell me where to head-in.

Sometimes me Welsh temper flares a wee bit. 🤬
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Fanny on November 20, 2017, 07:32:13 PM
What in blinkin' blue blazes are you talking about? I was replying to "AlligatorDicax's post", not you! So I would appreciate it if you would mind your own business and stop telling others what they should do or not do.
You are right.
You won't hear from me again, nor will anyone on cathinfo.
Adios.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: St Ignatius on November 20, 2017, 09:19:15 PM
You are right.
You won't hear from me again, nor will anyone on cathinfo.
Adios.
(https://interasistmen.se/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/crying-baby-meme-generator-i-made-a-post-no-one-liked-it-285bae.jpg)
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Gwaredd Thomas on November 20, 2017, 10:10:38 PM
(https://interasistmen.se/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/crying-baby-meme-generator-i-made-a-post-no-one-liked-it-285bae.jpg)
May y Duw da bendithio a'ch Cadw chi! 😇
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: TKGS on November 21, 2017, 07:31:16 AM
You are right.
You won't hear from me again, nor will anyone on cathinfo.
Adios.
We've heard these promises before.  They never pan out.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Meg on November 21, 2017, 08:32:06 AM
You are right.
You won't hear from me again, nor will anyone on cathinfo.
Adios.

I'm sorry to see that you won't be posting anymore. But it may be better to stay away from this Den of Vipers.

The owner of the forum is a good man, and he has a good wife. They can't help, for the most part, that most trads are a nasty bunch. That's just how it is.

God bless you.
Title: Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
Post by: Jaynek on November 21, 2017, 09:02:38 AM
I'm sorry to see that you won't be posting anymore. But it may be better to stay away from this Den of Vipers.

The owner of the forum is a good man, and he has a good wife. They can't help, for the most part, that most trads are a nasty bunch. That's just how it is.

God bless you.
To say "most trads are a nasty bunch" is a sweeping generalization and seems uncalled for in this situation.  It is pretty understandable for people to object to getting lectured about netiquette by a newbie; it does not make them nasty.  

I suggest that we pray for Fanny and not make any judgments about "most trads".  Perhaps you could consider, Meg, whether your response is a sign of battle fatigue.  You have been involved in angry arguments lately and that may be colouring your perception of trads.