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Author Topic: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained  (Read 40796 times)

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Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2017, 03:26:41 PM »
As someone in a private email replied, it speaks very poorly of this Francis' judgment that he opted to go to Boston at all.

And, if you are to believe Yoda over at the Playpen, apparently this same Francis tried to get "ordained" by "Bishop" Bill, evincing even worse judgment.
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Are you referring to the so-called bishop William Moran?
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[Interesting side-note: Apparently the Sect still maintains that Bill is a bishop, but don't worry about your invalid sacraments from imposter clerics, worry about +BW!]

Given these two moronic decisions which nobody with an ounce of common sense would make, it is almost certain this Francis never bothered to investigate the episcopal (or priestly) lineage he sought orders from.

Where can I send money again?
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But doesn't ImmaculateHeart attempt to assure everyone that "this Francis" did not seek orders from anyone, ever?
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Or did I misunderstand her message somehow?
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Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2017, 03:48:13 PM »
Mr. Maccabees is free to continue what he is doing. Father has clarified only what is necessary, not the whole story. The whole truth is known to God, who knows all things and his conscience bears him witness, that:
1. Father always told the priests of his intentions. There are reasons why he left when he did, mostly known to the priests, one being his family.
2. He never asked anyone for orders including the Bishop who ordained him nor made any form of pledge to anyone.
3. He was ordained in accordance with the will and at the time the priest who took charge of him decided.

 - Maccabees appears to know father, but does not consider it important to listen to the other side, but rather makes an analysis precisely on the premise he denies; ie that father never sought orders by himself. This is untrue.
- How can anyone ask to leave the seminary with the right to return ? Where does this happen ?
- His decision to leave OLMC does not mean disobedience, nor him seeking anything. This is unfounded. He has his reasons which I'm sure Maccabees will not like to hear.
The priest who made the decisions concerning father and did all the work in regard to his future knows all that.
On the contrary, father contacted Bp. Zendejas only after he left, who tried to help him find a solution to his situation. Finally, he decided to remain with the priest who took him in and was also willing to help him. This is the truth.
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Re-reading it now I see ImmaculateHeart says Francis never asked anyone for orders, one minute, then says it is untrue "that father never sought orders by himself" the next. So it could be an innocent error but it reads like a self-contradiction. In any case it needs to become clarified.
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Notice how "but rather makes an analysis precisely on the premise he denies" is an objectively meaningless phrase. It could equally apply to analyzing the premise (making an analysis on the premise) or to denying the premise upon which the analysis depends. The sentence later, "This is untrue," could apply to any of several propositions that preceded it. Is the reader left with the task of presuming to judge correctly as far as to which proposition the untruthfulness should apply?
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- He threatened no one, but saddened by the falsifications after months of suffering from what OLMC tried to do to him, he stated he would be obliged to give the full account of his stay at OLMC.

Bishop Merrill Adamson, is a thuc [Thuc] line Bishop who was consecreted by Bishop José Urbina Anzar, who was consecrated by José Romon Lopez Gaston, himself a thuc [Thuc] bishop through Bishop Christian Datessen, consecrated conditionally by Archbishop Thuc.
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"What OLMC tried to do to him" is never explained. Did OLMC try to do something to him? Like provide ordination from "bishop" Bill?
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Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2017, 03:57:30 PM »
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This whole topic is a quagmire of ambiguity. And the questions are just beginning. Imagine asking these questions after the new priest has heard about 50 sacramental confessions!
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According to Church teaching a priest who is conditionally re-ordained needs to seek out all the penitents the confessions of whom he has heard before being conditionally re-ordained, so that he can tell them they need to repeat their confession as well as add any new sins committed after that time, including any Holy Communions received if there had been mortal sins confessed the first time which may therefore not have been properly absolved.
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Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2017, 04:14:18 PM »
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This whole topic is a quagmire of ambiguity. And the questions are just beginning. Imagine asking these questions after the new priest has heard about 50 sacramental confessions!
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According to Church teaching a priest who is conditionally re-ordained needs to seek out all the penitents the confessions of whom he has heard before being conditionally re-ordained, so that he can tell them they need to repeat their confession as well as add any new sins committed after that time, including any Holy Communions received if there had been mortal sins confessed the first time which may therefore not have been properly absolved.
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How does a priest figure out whose confessions he has heard?

As regards past confessions to an invalidly ordained priest, so long as the same penitent made a good confession to a validly ordained priest later, it is not necessary to revisit the previous matter from the invalid confessions ("ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis...").

But, think of the rock and a hard place one would be in who mistakenly confesses to an imposter, then dies:

Supplied jurisdiction only covers jurisdiction, not orders (i.e., that person's sins would not be absolved); perfect contrition would have been their only hope.

Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2017, 04:22:06 PM »
...and that is why this whole matter is worth discussing!