Author Topic: Everyone picking a side (Read 3725 times)

Matthew · « **on:** June 03, 2014, 02:09:52 PM »

It seems like the time for sitting back and thinking about the situation is over.

In the last 2 days, I've had to ban 2 accordistas.

And no, I haven't changed my policies lately. I'm OK with members that are critical of the Resistance.

But I do have my limits.

Anyone who reduces the Resistance to some kind of caricature -- "All you have is a 2 year old docuмent in a dust bin somewhere and a whole lotta gossip" is obviously a victim of self-delusion and is forcefully keeping himself convinced and ignorant about the issue. Such a one is clearly not seeking the truth.

Why aren't they seeking the truth? God knows. I don't know. So I can't speculate or judge. What I do know is that they CAN'T be seeking the truth when they deny what is right in front of their faces. At best, they are lazy and not looking into it; merely repeating what others have told them. But that's still not seeking the truth!

I don't have compassion or patience for such...idiots. There's no better word.

Seeking the Truth is a prerequisite for membership on CathInfo. On most other points I am actually quite flexible.

I (and many others on CathInfo) am seeking the truth -- Full-time. You don't see me denying what is right in front of my face. I fully avert to all the real faults and challenges facing the Resistance.

Sure we each have to pick a side, and we all find ourselves on one side or the other. But don't let "team spirit" from that Side BLIND you to the truth right in front of your face.

For we fallen human beings, our knowledge is never perfect or complete, and we can easily be wrong. Our intellects have been darkened by Original Sin. So you will have Catholics in material error about various things.

However, there is one thing I am sure about, and that I will insist on for membership on CathInfo. God DOES will that we be charitable and not schismatic. God also wants us to not judge thousands or millions of Catholics indiscriminately. Regardless of who turns out to be right about the Pope, the SSPX or any other issue, I can tell you right now that God expects you to not go against your own conscience, call black "white" or the blue sky "red".

I am 100% sure about this point. No matter what happens, or what surprises God has in store for us, I can be fully confident that I will never have to eat crow or apologize for insisting on this.

Some things we can be sure about, such as the attributes of God (goodness, mercy, all-knowing, all-powerful, eternal, etc.)

You don't hear me judging all the Catholics attending SSPX chapels, even though I'm in the "Resistance" camp. You don't hear me judging all Sedevacantists, even though I'm in the R&R camp. So I expect the same Catholic treatment.

If there's even a small chance that a person is truly Catholic, I expect them to be treated like one.

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** June 03, 2014, 02:32:03 PM »

P.S.

And by insisting that every putative Catholic be treated like one, that includes giving them the benefit of the doubt, and refraining from judgment on the state of their soul.

Granting that someone is Catholic but insisting that he's in the state of mortal sin is hardly being non-judgmental and charitable.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged".

Let's see anyone get out of that one. Just because the Novus Ordo has destroyed moral theology ("that's not really a sin...") and doesn't ever judge good from evil doesn't give us permission to totally disregard Our Lord's command to not judge individuals.

We can judge what is good and evil all day long. What we can't do is apply that judgment to individual souls. That is what God in the Flesh specifically forbid us to do.

Yes, the Novus Ordo doesn't even judge the false religions to be heretical. It is in complete denial. But some Trads knee-jerk to the other extreme, where judgment is their only mode of being (think: Dimond brothers).

When it comes to individuals, we should go out of our way, even to the point of being foolish, to making excuses for others and giving them the benefit of the doubt.

When you see a young lady with 2 children at Mass, you should assume her husband is being forced to work every Sunday to support his family. When a young couple, married 2 months ago, gives birth to their first child, you should assume they just had a moment of weakness, that they are otherwise exemplary Catholics, and that it "easily could have been you" if you had been in the same situation.

If Trads would form these habits of non-judgment, the Trad world would be a much happier place, and maybe more people would convert to Tradition instead of running away in horror!

2Vermont · « **Reply #2 on:** June 03, 2014, 03:19:49 PM »

Does this include judgments that sedevacantists/the sede position is schismatic/heretical?

soulguard · « **Reply #3 on:** June 03, 2014, 05:41:10 PM »

I was away for 5 days, so I want to know who was BAN.

Judas Machabeus · « **Reply #4 on:** June 03, 2014, 06:55:27 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

And by insisting that every putative Catholic be treated like one, that includes giving them the benefit of the doubt, and refraining from judgment on the state of their soul.

Granting that someone is Catholic but insisting that he's in the state of mortal sin is hardly being non-judgmental and charitable.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged".

Let's see anyone get out of that one.

Thank you, Matthew.

crossbro · « **Reply #5 on:** June 04, 2014, 12:46:42 PM »

The problem with the Catholic Church is leadership and lack of accountability.

I know NO people who are more conservative than trads.

But because the homo-mafia is running the Church and there is no accountability- not only of clergy but the faithful we are dysfunctional.

Good candidates to the priesthood are going to be denied, good priests are going to be sent to the barrens.

The solution is when the people are forced to sign off on a contract affirming all the moral teachings of the Church and are audited on their finances. Those who don't comply are simply kicked out. That is how you get rid of the ambiguity.

The Church will then grow, not until. You have to step back to get the two steps forward. Jesus knew that- he was always about the quality of His followers, not the quantity. That is why he said the weeds would be thrown into the fire.

Matthew · « **Reply #6 on:** June 04, 2014, 12:58:05 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Does this include judgments that sedevacantists/the sede position is schismatic/heretical?

Obviously you see some problem with the Sede thesis or you'd be a Sede.

The question is: Are you completely sure (as in "God told you") that the Sedes are wrong. No, you're not.

So even if the Sede position seems imprudent, or it seems schismatic to you, etc. that doesn't mean you can "cut off" other Catholics from membership in the Church.

...that would be schism! :wink:

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #7 on:** June 04, 2014, 01:04:44 PM »

Pick a side, yes.

Ask for guidance from the Holy Ghost, yes!

Be devoted to Our Lady and Our Lord, yes!

Be ready to admit that your side is wrong if guided in that direction, yes!

2Vermont · « **Reply #8 on:** June 04, 2014, 03:03:19 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: 2Vermont
Does this include judgments that sedevacantists/the sede position is schismatic/heretical?

Obviously you see some problem with the Sede thesis or you'd be a Sede.

The question is: Are you completely sure (as in "God told you") that the Sedes are wrong. No, you're not.

So even if the Sede position seems imprudent, or it seems schismatic to you, etc. that doesn't mean you can "cut off" other Catholics from membership in the Church.

...that would be schism! :wink:

uh, Matthew. I thought you knew I was sede.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #9 on:** June 07, 2014, 12:38:39 AM »

Quote from: 2vm

uh, Matthew. I thought you knew I was sede.

I recall reading your posts not too many moons ago where you said you were on the fence. When did that change? At the election of Francis?

.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #10 on:** June 07, 2014, 12:42:41 AM »

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

Pick a side, yes.

I usually pick cole slaw or potato salad. :ready-to-eat:

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TKGS · « **Reply #11 on:** June 07, 2014, 07:39:43 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Does this include judgments that sedevacantists/the sede position is schismatic/heretical?

There are several posters who routinely declare sedevacantists outside the Church, schismatic, heretical, etc. But, as 2Vermont notes, they continue to be welcome.

Quote from: soulguard

I was away for 5 days, so I want to know who was BAN.

Apparently, I've not paid close attention either. I haven't seen any recent posts actually condemning people, except sedevacantists, as being outside the Church. I, too, would like to see specifically what went over the line.

2Vermont · « **Reply #12 on:** June 07, 2014, 07:59:25 AM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: 2vm
uh, Matthew. I thought you knew I was sede.

I recall reading your posts not too many moons ago where you said you were on the fence. When did that change? At the election of Francis?

.

At the time of his election, I was still a NOer hoping to God Francis would change things. Bwahahaha. Silly girl.

Anyway, I joined here in September after my ban at FE and it took until a few months ago or so to make the final jump. For the life of me I can't remember what the final straw was though. I remember Francis did something in February sometime, but I can't remember what it was....they all seem to blur together.

2Vermont · « **Reply #13 on:** June 07, 2014, 08:01:24 AM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: 2Vermont
Does this include judgments that sedevacantists/the sede position is schismatic/heretical?

There are several posters who routinely declare sedevacantists outside the Church, schismatic, heretical, etc. But, as 2Vermont notes, they continue to be welcome.

Quote from: soulguard
I was away for 5 days, so I want to know who was BAN.

Apparently, I've not paid close attention either. I haven't seen any recent posts actually condemning people, except sedevacantists, as being outside the Church. I, too, would like to see specifically what went over the line.

I thought Matthew made announcements for bans in the General Discussion sub-forum, but I don't recall seeing any recently. I, too, would be interested in seeing what went over the line.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #14 on:** June 07, 2014, 09:26:01 AM »

.

There was a time when he made explanation in a thread, of what had happened, but now it's to the point where maybe no mention is made at all, or when it is mentioned, it's not specific or thorough -- kind of like you not making the announcement that you've now accepted the premises of sedevacantism, 2Vermont. :scratchchin:

The spell checker program that runs on this site still doesn't recognize "sedevacantism" as a properly spelled word, so you could say that sedevacantism isn't accepted yet there, either. :furtive:

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