Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Matthew on June 09, 2018, 10:50:11 PM
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The SSPX has changed in 101+ ways!
A new book by SEAN JOHNSON
The SSPX is heading for a full merger with the Modernist Rome of Vatican II, and it's already most of the way there -- formal deal or no! The facts don't lie. Countless changes, compromises, and contradictions have already occurred within the SSPX -- past tense. This isn't about what the SSPX might do; it's about what THE SSPX HAS DONE over the past 7 years. Here is a book (almost 400 pages) detailing the docuмented, hard evidence to prove this assertion. This book will convince you that the SSPX has taken a hard U-turn back to Conciliar Modernist Rome!
https://www.chantcd.com/index.php/As-We-Are-101-Compromises-Changes-Contradictions-of-an-SSPX
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Good grief, Charlie Brown. Thanks for the 'splainin, Matthew.
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I was responding to Sean's comment that +Fellay knew what a sorry lot the Resistance is, while we didn't know it ourselves and underestimated him. But it disappeared. I guess I'll post the response here? I really feel like a lot of the frantic behavior is stemming from the mindset that the Resistance was supposed to rise up and give the SSPX a beat down. I am not mistaken that this has been Sean's stance right? Anyway, the response is written as if it is. I apologize if I read it all wrong.
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Sean:
Bishop Fellay knew what a sorry lot we were, while we didn't know it ourselves, and we underestimated him.
Perhaps you did not know it, but I knew it. And I think many others did too. That's exactly why it seemed very clear from the beginning that the Resistance could never become another SSPX-like organization. I never hoped for that so now that it hasn't happened neither am I downcast by it. I was always attracted to the wisdom and humility of those who knew we were nothing from the start. It is not guaranteed but if God chooses to develop this nothing, it will be in His own time and in His own manner, as long as we are happy to be nothing in the meantime.
"They also serve who only stand and wait." In fact, I'd say that is the most difficult kind of service. Yet it seems to be exactly what God is demanding at the moment. I've noticed in reading many lives of saints, they went through long periods of "nothing" before God called them out. This "nothingness" serves a purpose if only we know how to use it. Accept the humiliations. Focus on our families. Develop personal virtue. Give up control to God. I cannot see anything good happening until all of those conditions are met. Most especially we have to get to a place wherein we are profoundly and truly happy to be nothing!
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Johnson's Clairvoyant. The incognito samuel through anonymous emails. Who would have known ;)
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So it's official then ?
Sean has finally [vulgar expression removed] ?
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It's only lately, in your new "Dogmatic Sedeplenist" phase, that you're picking up downvotes like a child picks up candy after a pinata breaks.
It is my belief that this is the main reason for his latest manic behavior.
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Strange. Over Holy Week, he posted on his blog all the ceremonies from SGG (sede) and had commented on how Catholics might have to go to sedevacantist chapels to receive sacraments. And then go all over the sedes on CI? Slightly strange turn of face.
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Sean:
Perhaps you did not know it, but I knew it. And I think many others did too. That's exactly why it seemed very clear from the beginning that the Resistance could never become another SSPX-like organization. I never hoped for that so now that it hasn't happened neither am I downcast by it. I was always attracted to the wisdom and humility of those who knew we were nothing from the start. It is not guaranteed but if God chooses to develop this nothing, it will be in His own time and in His own manner, as long as we are happy to be nothing in the meantime.
"They also serve who only stand and wait." In fact, I'd say that is the most difficult kind of service. Yet it seems to be exactly what God is demanding at the moment. I've noticed in reading many lives of saints, they went through long periods of "nothing" before God called them out. This "nothingness" serves a purpose if only we know how to use it. Accept the humiliations. Focus on our families. Develop personal virtue. Give up control to God. I cannot see anything good happening until all of those conditions are met. Most especially we have to get to a place wherein we are profoundly and truly happy to be nothing!
From all my experience, including reading the entire book of Holy Scripture several times and hundreds of Lives of the Saints, this rings true. It's very wise and Catholic. And it would explain the current lack of earthly "success" of the Resistance. God is training us, purifying us, sanctifying us, testing us. Just as He has done with His closest friends for thousands of years.
Is that the explanation for why the Resistance isn't taking off "like a house on fire"? As a Catholic, I certainly can't rule it out.
Patience.
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I don’t respect anyone who constantly fights and creates drama, like Fr Pfeiffer does or like Sean has been doing recently. The true catholic spirit is charity, meekness and humility - as the feast of the Sacred Heart teaches us.
I’m all for debates and civil disagreements, but juvenile name-calling and unending arguing is uncatholic. Sean, I hope you calm down and use your intellect to teach and preach - don’t let the devil trick you into fight mode. It’s a waste of your talents.
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Strange. Over Holy Week, he posted on his blog all the ceremonies from SGG (sede) and had commented on how Catholics might have to go to sedevacantist chapels to receive sacraments. And then go all over the sedes on CI? Slightly strange turn of face.
Yes, I noticed this also. On the forums in the past I had noticed he had been very anti-sede, yet on his blog he was posting videos from non-una cuм sedes, the same people he condemned on the forums. I thought he had changed his stance and become sede-friendly.
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I think the Resistance is failing to take off because we're entering the Great Apostasy. And the Apostles said, in these days even the elect themselves would be lead astray if such were possible. That's what this crisis is, both the Church losing huge numbers to atheism and secularism, and also a loss of Catholicism within the Church itself. I don't think we're gonna get any great victory soon to steer the Church back on track. We have few if any allies in the College of Cardinals, so it's not like we'll get a strong traditionalist Pope anytime soon. Things will probably just keep slowly getting worse, and the best we can hope to do is keep ourselves and our friends and families on course.
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Yes, I noticed this also. On the forums in the past I had noticed he had been very anti-sede, yet on his blog he was posting videos from non-una cuм sedes, the same people he condemned on the forums. I thought he had changed his stance and become sede-friendly.
Is he just trolling here then? Trying to drive traffic to his site?
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Is he just trolling here then? Trying to drive traffic to his site?
But I thought he recently shut down his blog?
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Yes, I noticed this also. On the forums in the past I had noticed he had been very anti-sede, yet on his blog he was posting videos from non-una cuм sedes, the same people he condemned on the forums. I thought he had changed his stance and become sede-friendly.
Interesting. Based on my interactions with him on ABLF years ago I always knew he was against the SV position, but never to the extent I have seen recently here and other fora. I don't recall him ever stating that sedevacantists are not Catholic and out of the Church.
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Is he just trolling here then? Trying to drive traffic to his site?
Can't be. He doesn't have a site at the moment.
But that doesn't mean he's not a drama queen (king?)
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Interesting. Based on my interactions with him on ABLF years ago I always knew he was against the SV position, but never to the extent I have seen recently here and other fora. I don't recall him ever stating that sedevacantists are not Catholic and out of the Church.
I have a bad memory so I do not recall if he ever went so far as to say sedes are in schism, so perhaps "condemn" was a bit too strong, but I thought he was very much against sedes and thought they were a threat. I believe he advocated things like not associating with the non-una cuм priests who were associated with the resistance like not allowing them in the SAJM and so forth.
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I have a bad memory so I do not recall if he ever went so far as to say sedes are in schism, so perhaps "condemn" was a bit too strong, but I thought he was very much against sedes and thought they were a threat. I believe he advocated things like not associating with the non-una cuм priests who were associated with the resistance like not allowing them in the SAJM and so forth.
Perhaps you are correct. My memory isn't the best either.
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To elaborate on one my points above --
You have to know Sean Johnson. I know him IRL, since we were in the same class in the Seminary.
When he joined in 2001, he had visited or tested out just about every group in Trad land. I can't quote particulars since A) it's been years and B) I don't want to get anything wrong.
But I know he had tried out Institute of Christ the King to some extent, and I think he visited, checked out, and/or spent time in several other groups "to the left" of the SSPX before he arrived at STAS. His attitude towards +Williamson and STAS was different from mine: I was a young man there to learn (docile). I had already decided that +ABL had the best position, and this was his seminary. "So teach me." He was more of an arguer. He also stayed for just 1 - 1.5 years. I don't remember that detail exactly.
I think he might have "found" the +ABL position just before he came to the seminary. It wasn't exactly HIS position yet, or solidly his. I remember walking next to him and +Williamson on one of our quarterly nature hikes. After telling +Williamson his backstory, the latter told him, "Well, it's as they say, easy come, easy go...hard come, hard go..." Good old +Williamson, ever the optimist! But he did turn out to be partially right -- Sean did stay with the SSPX position.
But nevertheless, he still seems to have a wandering or restlessness bug, even if he restricts that wandering to the R&R department of Tradition now.
Long story short, even when he was 25, stability wasn't his strong point. He's clearly a pure choleric.
Have any of you encountered the Wandering Trad? The Trad who doesn't really have a home anywhere, but who wanders from place to place? The one who stays for about a year at most, going from group to group, chapel to chapel, never completely satisfied or staying anywhere for long? Sean was more or less an example of this.
(I'm not talking about geographical place. An SSPX military family that moved every 2 years, but always went to their local SSPX chapel, would NOT be an example of what I'm talking about.)
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I probably have more downvotes than anyone, due to my opinion on one topic alone, and you don't see me whining about it.
Sean Johnson had a tempertantrum and needs a thicker skin.
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Have any of you encountered the Wandering Trad? The Trad who doesn't really have a home anywhere, but who wanders from place to place? The one who stays for about a year at most, going from group to group, chapel to chapel, never completely satisfied or staying anywhere for long? Sean was more or less an example of this.
That's exactly how we pinned it. Johnson is an indulter with an indulter mind. The NOM is right up his ally for options and only disgruntled with it because they do not consult him at times.
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I probably have more downvotes than anyone, due to my opinion on one topic alone, and you don't see me whining about it.
Sean Johnson had a tempertantrum and needs a thicker skin.
Hah, I have 2264 and counting (more than double your total) ... probably the downvote champ here on CI. Of course I have over 7000 upvotes too. My ratio used to be 6:1 positive, until I got a cadre of Drew followers giving me an automatic 3 downvotes on every post (even had I posted a recipe for a meatless dish). I think that I doubled my downvote total in the last 60 days as a result. It all depends on what topic you decide to post on and what side you take on the issue.
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Matthew, it would be fun if you could post a list of upvote and downvote leaders here on CI. LOL ... I just gave you an inadvertent downvote, just testing whether it could be done. I seem to recall that you blocked downvotes against you at one point. Evidently that's not the case. I wonder if more people don't downvote any of your posts because they're afraid that you'll be able to see who did it. In any case, what I can't stand is the anonymous downvotes. I think that someone should be able to mouse over the downvotes on each post and see who did it.
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Also, it seems that Sean Johnson has an inordinate need to be "right."
As if there is some "right" opinion to hold on the Church crisis.
I don't necessarily think there is a "right."
In the Resistance parishes I know, attendance is down.
In the SSPX parishes I know, attendance is down. Last I heard, Liberty Station in San Diego is being closed, back to the hotel for them.
In the sede parishes I know, attendance is down.
Where did everyone go? Who knows?
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Also, it seems that Sean Johnson has an inordinate need to be "right."
As if there is some "right" opinion to hold on the Church crisis.
I don't necessarily think there is a "right."
In the Resistance parishes I know, attendance is down.
In the SSPX parishes I know, attendance is down. Last I heard, Liberty Station in San Diego is being closed, back to the hotel for them.
In the sede parishes I know, attendance is down.
Where did everyone go? Who knows?
I think that the kids are leaving ... to be honest. Many Traditional Catholics are the older-generation holdovers, and I see their kids and grandkids often leaving Tradition back to the Novus Ordo or just giving up on the Catholic Church altogether.
I absolutely agree that there's no "right" position on the crisis. I do, however, think that there are many WRONG ones. ... if that makes sense.
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Kudos to you, though, Smedley, since you have about 20% more downvotes than posts. :laugh1:
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Johnson's inordinate affection with the up-vote button is like a fly that won't go away.
Johnson needs a third button for being a drama queen so he can watch his votes go up. That might make him feel luvvvy good.
He always tries to steal the show blabbering about himself distracting from the real issue. Since this thread is dedicated to you (again) johnson, the NOM is a zoo cage for the idols of men and Christ is not in it. Your hiding in the weeds trying to resurrect a 'valid' ecuмenist religion debated is INVALID! It's pure indulterism... :sleep:
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I agree that the Millenial generation (35ish to 18 yrs old) have, in general, given up on religion of their parents and in varied ways. Based on stats from my extended family (siblings, cousins, etc) and other families I know who started out as independent, non-sspx Trads (id say a millenial sample size of 300-350 people), here are the results:
about 10% don’t go to any church anymore,
approx 50% are now indult. They think the sspx is wrong and all independent chapels are also wrong.
25% are still trad but go to the neo-sspx, (which is currently quasi-indult) and they don’t really know their faith or understand what happened at V2 - because they didn’t read and study history, they just “went with the flow” and went to a TLM catholic school like their parents told them and nothing more.
That leaves about 15% who are still Trad, non-sspx.
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I agree that the Millenial generation (35ish to 18 yrs old) have, in general, given up on religion of their parents and in varied ways. Based on stats from my extended family (siblings, cousins, etc) and other families I know who started out as independent, non-sspx Trads (id say a millenial sample size of 300-350 people), here are the results:
about 10% don’t go to any church anymore,
approx 50% are now indult. They think the sspx is wrong and all independent chapels are also wrong.
25% are still trad but go to the neo-sspx, (which is currently quasi-indult) and they don’t really know their faith or understand what happened at V2 - because they didn’t read and study history, they just “went with the flow” and went to a TLM catholic school like their parents told them and nothing more.
That leaves about 15% who are still Trad, non-sspx.
Yes, that's the kind of thing I'm seeing too, not so much from my extended family ... but in general among the families who have been running in Traditional circles around this area.
I'm surprised, though, that you don't list any who have gone full-blown Novus Ordo.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
You've got a interesting perspective on what's vulgar here.
So it's not like "jumping so-and-so's bones?" or the the one that ends with "the pooch"?
Yes, I'll admit it's a bit confusing, and I'm a well read, middle aged native English speaker! I haven't seen Happy Days though.
I remember in the early days of BBS dial-up chat rooms (before the Internet) there were various "actions" you could do in the chat room. Something like "/jump john" and then in the room it would say "[Your username] is jumping John's bones".
I had never heard the expression before, but I got the gist of it.
I wasn't sure, so I erred on the side of NOT having vulgarity on the forum.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
You've got a interesting perspective on what's vulgar here.
I wonder if Matthew got this phrase confused with something else? I have never heard of this term as having a "vulgar" meaning.
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The usage of "jump the shark" has subsequently broadened beyond television, indicating the moment when a brand, design, franchise, or creative effort's evolution declines, or when it changes notably in style into something unwelcome.
To answer your original question: Yes, Sean Johnson has jumped the shark.
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I'm surprised, though, that you don't list any who have gone full-blown Novus Ordo
Most of the families of the millenials in my “data” were VERY traditional, I’d say “cream of the crop” as far as the sacrifices their grandparents went thru to get mass during the 70s-80s, with many of the grandparents having started chapels on their own.
So, the grandchildren leaving the TLM for the indult is scandalous enough. Many of them have told me they have occasionally gone to the novus ordo (but only when the indult isn’t available, as if that’s an excuse) but they have not embraced it wholeheartedly. I think deep down they know it’s not catholic and they don’t want to cross that imaginary line - a sign that their conscience still bothers them about their abandoning of the True Faith.
On the other hand, they go on and on about how they love the indult priests (“They’re SO conservative”, they say) yet these priests, who proclaim a love for tradition, turn around a few hours/days later and say the novus ordo in all its empty and humanistic glory. Oh, what a hypocrisy!
All in all, the Millenials downfall and their spiritual Achilles heel is peer pressure. They all want to “fit in” and be part of the “jolly old gang”. Their biggest fear is to be different, which is proven by the popularity of social media and the endless need to be “liked” and to be funny. Sean’s need for “upvotes” is a symptom of this social and spiritual sickness.
I don’t like to quote Abraham Lincoln but his point is applicable here to Millenials, who still haven’t grown up from the high-school popularity, childish mindset.
Everyman is born an original, but sadly most die as copies.
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Let me be clear: IMO the ability to up or downvote any individual post is NOT a problem. It means someone didn't agree with what you wrote.
If only that were the case. Some people go on vendettas and downvote everything you post if you've crossed them in the past. I've had completely innocuous uncontroversial posts get 3 automatic downvotes simply because there were people out to get back at me ... and obviously unrelated to the particular post. With that said, I could hardly care less about my online Reputation.
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To answer your original question: Yes, Sean Johnson has jumped the shark.
Thanks Mate :cheers:
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The Reputation score is mostly worthless, but is only useful in a broad-brush, vague context. It is a measure of How Well a User Fits In On CathInfo, it could be their Trad Orthodoxy Score, Good Poster Score, or some combination of those things.
A few downvotes aren't going to change the big picture. Just the fact that you got 7000 upvotes says a lot about your glorious past posting history. Even if someone managed to downvote you to 7,000 downvotes, I'm not going to look into banning you or something. I'm not stupid.
If I connected the downvote system to automatic warnings/temporary bans/posting privileges or other computer/software-based moderation then I would FULLY agree with your objections.
But they are just a guideline for the Moderator when he looks into a given user. When someone has 10 upvotes and 120 downvotes, I take notice and look at his posting history. And guess what? Those numbers almost NEVER LIE. Usually when someone is thus lopsided the person is very rough around the edges at best, heretical at worst, etc.
And I want to remind everyone again: the more participation in the voting system, the better and more accurate everyone's score is. Because guess what? The troublemakers and loudmouths certainly don't hold back on voting. If you leave all the voting to them, the forum's posts and Rep scores will reflect only THEIR tastes! Don't let that happen.
And I should also remind everyone (again) that part of the reason the system "works" is because I restrict how much "inflating" or "damage" you can give someone's score. Mary is only allowed to be 16% of John's downvotes. Once she hits that limit, she will get an error message until enough people downvote John so she can downvote him (1) more time. And so on.
If John has 100 downvotes, Mary can only be 16 of them. But if John gets up to 200 downvotes, then Mary's total 16 downvotes is only 8% instead of 16% of John's total, so she is allowed to downvote him again.
When a user is a real jerk, or a total misfit here, the downvote limits don't really limit anybody since enough OTHER people are also downvoting him.
But it makes it harder to gang up on someone and damage his score.
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P.S. When someone is banned, I have a script now that goes through and deletes all the up/downvotes that person made. I'm not going to have ex-CathInfo members -- who for one reason or another turned out to be unsuitable -- deciding ANYTHING about what is good or bad here on CathInfo.
However, although the votes are removed from posts, at the moment the total Rep scores are not updated. Maybe I'll write a script for that someday...
BUT since the votes are actually removed, THAT is what's used for the calculation of limits. So if you have 100 actual, surviving downvotes, but your Rep score shows 200 total downvotes, each person can downvote you only 16. Because it's the actual vote database that's looked at, in real time, to calculate voting limits.
The Rep score (shown by your name) isn't used by the software at all. It's basically a piece of text. It's not used in any calculations at the moment.
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I'm happy to say I have everyone beat. Between the computer giving me one day to the next more than a double down votes over night, and dealing with the ego of johnson whose happy to give the button but doesn't like to take it, I would offer there is another reason of down votes. There are some really immature people here who have good things to say and really stupid things to say. So down votes mean nothing when they are attack measures because they're angry at everyone regardless if you say something nice or a provoking thought to stimulate ideas.
Lots of tempers here that's for sure.
Have an idea for the number folks. Worry more what our Lord thinks than what man thinks. Your speech should be edifying for both.
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Opps, just saw yours Smedley Butler. You win.