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Offline Matthew

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Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
« on: January 07, 2017, 03:53:58 PM »
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  • Number CDXCV (495)

    Vatican “War”

    To Vatican Two will Catholics wake up ever?
    They surely wake up better late than never!

    In today’s crisis of the Church, of an unprecedented gravity in all Church history, it is most important that Catholics should give due importance both to the Traditional movement and to the Catholic Church outside the Traditional movement. Tradition in its broadest sense, meaning everything which Our Lord entrusted to his Church to be handed down ( tradendum in Latin) to world’s end, is indispensable to the Church, and the Traditional movement has played an indispensable part in preserving Traditional doctrine and sacraments from their destruction by the Conciliar Revolution over the last half-century. But to survive, the Traditional movement had to place itself outside the normal hierarchical structure of the Church, and that structure is very much part of Tradition – “Peter, feed my sheep” (Jn XXI, 17). Therefore however deep is the Conciliar corruption in Rome, Catholics must still be looking to Rome.

    Hence the interest of the following report from inside Rome by the Founder and Director of an American Novus Ordo publication, LifeSiteNews. Steve Jalsevac normally visits Rome twice a year with colleagues to talk with all kinds of contacts in Rome, the better to be able to assess how the situation in the Church is developing. From his late November visit he published on December 16 a “deeply worrying” report of his impressions of the situation in Rome today. Extracts follow:?—

    “Our Nov. 16–23 visit to Rome was the most dramatic of many such twice-per-year work trips we have taken there during the past 10 years. After meeting with cardinals, bishops and other Vatican agency and dicastery staff, our new Rome reporter John-Henry Westen, Jan Bentz, and I saw a consistent pattern of widespread anxiety and very real fear among faithful Church servants. We have never encountered this before. Many were afraid of being removed from their positions, fired from their jobs in Vatican agencies or of encountering severe public or private reprimands and personal accusations from those around the Pope or even from Francis himself. They are also fearful and anxious about the great damage being done to the Church and being helpless to stop it.

    “. . . . Catholic universities in Rome are watched and professors’ lectures screened to ensure they fall in line with a liberal interpretation of Amoris Laetitia. Clerics are reported to Superiors if they are overheard expressing concerns about Pope Francis. Many are afraid to speak openly, even though in the past they were always very willing. Vatican reporters told us they were warned numerous times not to report on the dubia (the questions raised by Cardinal Burke and three other Cardinals as to doctrine contained in Amoris Laetitia). I have heard reports that the Vatican is like an occupied state. Certain sources I’ve spoken with have a fear that communications with V atican officials are being monitored; some have even reported suspicious anomalies in their telephone conversations in which, after a dropped call, the audio of the last moments of their conversation has played over and over again on a loop, as though they are hearing a recording. Some individuals who work within the Vatican are advising their contacts on the outside not to share sensitive information via email or their Vatican-issued cell phones.

    “We have to wonder where all of this is going. It is deeply, deeply concerning. The common phrase we kept hearing that week in Rome is that there is a “war” going on in the Church – a war of the “The Spirit of Vatican II” progressives against the orthodox Catholics. One person after another shockingly used the word “war.” I have never experienced anything like this in my lifetime and I am sure most, if not all regular LifeSite readers, can say the same thing.”

    Traditionalists may say that the four Cardinals and Mr Jalsevac are victims of Vatican II, waking up a little late, but let nobody say that they do not mean or intend to be Catholic. The Church will only be healed when true Doctrine and the true Hierarchy come together again, so let Traditionalists pray urgently for these souls waking up to the Conciliar war. May God give them light and strength.

    Kyrie eleison.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #1 on: January 07, 2017, 07:49:04 PM »
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  • +W said:

    "I have heard reports that the Vatican is like an occupied state."
     
    It's became a ʝʊdɛօ-masonic enclave, with the Mossad assisting in the occupation and electronic surveillance of it's citizenry.  
    :reporter:





    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline JPaul

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #2 on: January 07, 2017, 08:41:41 PM »
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  • Bishop Williamson,
    Quote
    But to survive, the Traditional movement had to place itself outside the normal hierarchical structure of the Church,


    Traditional Catholics never placed themselves beyond the NORMAL hierarchical structure of the Church. They distanced themselves from an abnormal heterodox hierarchy which at its core is non-Catholic in doctrine and praxis.

    Bishop Williamson,
     
    Quote
    and that structure is very much part of Tradition – “Peter, feed my sheep” (Jn XXI, 17). Therefore however deep is the Conciliar corruption in Rome, Catholics must still be looking to Rome.


    The true orthodox Catholic hierarchy is indeed a part of Tradition, but a delinquent un-Catholic hierarchy has never been a part of Tradition or of Christ's Church.
     The conciliar corruption of an apostate sect which has usurped the offices of the hierarchy has nothing to do with Catholic Rome, save that it has obscured it by conflating its counterfeit self with the genuine Church of Christ.

    Therefore, do not look to conciliar Rome but rather look for the true Rome which is at present obscured by the Judaizing regime of the false council.

    Do not be misled. Whether we were to survive as some sort of "movement" or not was never the issue. It comes down to the simple truth that to remain a Catholic Christian and remain firmly attached to the Doctrine of Christ, one was compelled to be faithful to God and His Christ and to flee a corrupting hoarde of modernist Devils and avoid breathing in their Father's caliginous vapors.

    Blessed be God

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #3 on: January 07, 2017, 09:10:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous

    +W said:

    "I have heard reports that the Vatican is like an occupied state."
     
    It's became a ʝʊdɛօ-masonic enclave, with the Mossad assisting in the occupation and electronic surveillance of its citizenry.  
    :reporter:


    Good eye, Incredulous!

    Quote from: Matthew
    Number CDXCV (495)

    Vatican “War”

    To Vatican Two will Catholics wake up ever?
    They surely wake up better late than never!

    In today’s crisis of the Church, of an unprecedented gravity in all Church history, it is most important that Catholics should give due importance both to the Traditional movement and to the Catholic Church outside the Traditional movement. Tradition in its broadest sense, meaning everything which Our Lord entrusted to his Church to be handed down (tradendum in Latin) to world’s end, is indispensable to the Church, and the Traditional movement has played an indispensable part in preserving Traditional doctrine and sacraments from their destruction by the Conciliar Revolution over the last half-century. But to survive, the Traditional movement had to place itself outside the normal hierarchical structure of the Church, and that structure is very much part of Tradition – “Peter, feed my sheep” (Jn XXI, 17). Therefore however deep is the Conciliar corruption in Rome, Catholics must still be looking to Rome.

    It is incuмbent on all Catholics to "look to Rome," because "...he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved" (Matt. xxiv. 13).

    It is a dogma of the Faith that every human creature must be subject to the Roman Pontiff. Along with that we see that "For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Behold I have told it to you, beforehand" (Matt. xxiv. 24, 25).

    We should not be deceived: "Behold I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be ye therefore wise as serpents and simple as doves" (Matt. x. 16).

    We live in a time when two millennia of Church teaching is a matter of record accessible largely by anyone. Therefore when the "Bishop of Rome" would seem to teach heresy, we can see through the error with the Grace of God. Bishop Williamson is a voice crying out in the wilderness for those with ears to hear. God bless Bishop Williamson!

    Quote
    Hence the interest of the following report from inside Rome by the Founder and Director of an American Novus Ordo publication, LifeSiteNews. Steve Jalsevac normally visits Rome twice a year with colleagues to talk with all kinds of contacts in Rome, the better to be able to assess how the situation in the Church is developing. From his late November visit he published on December 16 a “deeply worrying” report of his impressions of the situation in Rome today. Extracts follow:?—

    Today Fr. Defour gave a sermon (intended for tomorrow) in which he mentioned this very topic, to our edification.  It comes as a shock to some of us to hear that Pope Francis is entangled in a deception (rooted between his ears) in which he is diligently uprooting all of Catholic Tradition, the latest news being his FIRING of high-placed conservative clerics whose job it has been to do God's work in the Vatican.  He said that these men can't just go out and find another job when their specialty is theology and such religious matters in the Church. In a very real sense, to them Rome is their home and they are being cast out where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, as if they're not wearing a Wedding Garment!

    Liberalism ("ʝʊdɛօ-masonic enclave" and the "Mossad assisting in the occupation and electronic surveillance of its citizenry") is aggressively rotting the Vatican from THE INSIDE OUT.

    Quote

    “Our Nov. 16–23 visit to Rome was the most dramatic of many such twice-per-year work trips we have taken there during the past 10 years. After meeting with cardinals, bishops and other Vatican agency and dicastery staff, our new Rome reporter John-Henry Westen, Jan Bentz, and I saw a consistent pattern of widespread anxiety and very real fear among faithful Church servants. We have never encountered this before. Many were afraid of being removed from their positions, fired from their jobs in Vatican agencies or of encountering severe public or private reprimands and personal accusations from those around the Pope or even from Francis himself. They are also fearful and anxious about the great damage being done to the Church and being helpless to stop it.

    Kyrie eleison.

    Francis was also in the news recently when he appointed about 17 new Cardinals, ALL of whom are by far the most liberal bishops in the world, such that the next conclave will be severely stacked against Tradition even more than previously.

    Fr. Defour offered a pithy observation of his own here, saying that all over the world today, Catholics bearing the Traditional Cross are encountering an ever-increasing penance in their personal lives where everything they do is being corrupted and they are meeting challenges in the world that appear to have a demonic element directed at them because of their Faith. He said that we are being called by God to persevere under this increasing trials so we can make reparation for the sins of the world all around us. He gave examples of the attack on the Family which is the basic building block of society, making mention specifically  for the benefit of the youth of today, to same sex so-called marriage, because it is an inexcusable injustice to a child to be adopted into such a household since a child needs a father and a mother, not two men or two women.

    He asked us, "What is the single most powerful invention of the 20th century?" and suggested TV, or the Internet, or movies.  Then he paused and someone said, "The Pill." He replied, "Exactly so." The Pill has been the single most devastating invention of the 20th century, the beginning of its approval starting with the Lambeth conference (a Protestant group) in the 1930's. When Pope Paul VI attempted to teach against contraception (with Humanae Vitae, 1966) the bishops of the world ignored him. He said "They laughed at him."

    Quote
    “. . . . Catholic universities in Rome are watched and professors’ lectures screened to ensure they fall in line with a liberal interpretation of Amoris Laetitia. Clerics are reported to Superiors if they are overheard expressing concerns about Pope Francis. Many are afraid to speak openly, even though in the past they were always very willing. Vatican reporters told us they were warned numerous times not to report on the dubia (the questions raised by Cardinal Burke and three other Cardinals as to doctrine contained in Amoris Laetitia). I have heard reports that the Vatican is like an occupied state. Certain sources I’ve spoken with have a fear that communications with Vatican officials are being monitored; some have even reported suspicious anomalies in their telephone conversations in which, after a dropped call, the audio of the last moments of their conversation has played over and over again on a loop, as though they are hearing a recording. Some individuals who work within the Vatican are advising their contacts on the outside not to share sensitive information via email or their Vatican-issued cell phones.

    Hillary's e-mails are not the only ones under scrutiny!

    Quote
    “We have to wonder where all of this is going. It is deeply, deeply concerning. The common phrase we kept hearing that week in Rome is that there is a “war” going on in the Church – a war of the “The Spirit of Vatican II” progressives against the orthodox Catholics. One person after another shockingly used the word “war.” I have never experienced anything like this in my lifetime and I am sure most, if not all regular LifeSite readers, can say the same thing.”

    I would dare to add one word to this:

    There is a “war” going on in the Church – a war of the “The UNCLEAN Spirit of Vatican II” progressives against the orthodox Catholics.

    Quote
    Traditionalists may say that the four Cardinals and Mr Jalsevac are victims of Vatican II, waking up a little late, but let nobody say that they do not mean or intend to be Catholic. The Church will only be healed when true Doctrine and the true Hierarchy come together again, so let Traditionalists pray urgently for these souls waking up to the Conciliar war. May God give them light and strength.

    Kyrie eleison.


    Fr. Defour (a Holy Ghost father, whose Superior General prior to 1964 was Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre) also gave us this final word, that it is the Family Rosary that is our weapon. Pray the Family Rosary every day. Sometimes he hears a parent complain that his spouse doesn't like the Rosary -- "Well, then say it yourself!" We must keep praying the Rosary of Our Lady, for she alone is the Destroyer of All Heresies.

    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #4 on: January 08, 2017, 03:34:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Number CDXCV (495)

    Vatican “War”

    “We have to wonder where all of this is going. It is deeply, deeply concerning. The common phrase we kept hearing that week in Rome is that there is a “war” going on in the Church – a war of the “The Spirit of Vatican II” progressives against the orthodox Catholics. One person after another shockingly used the word “war.” I have never experienced anything like this in my lifetime and I am sure most, if not all regular LifeSite readers, can say the same thing.”



    Who are these "orthodox Catholic" conciliat church bishops and cardinals?  NOT A ONE!

    "In the country of blind men that one eyed man is a king". (= Compared to Bergolio, JPII is the Great, and BXVI is the next in line sainted pope)

    Show me ONE conciliar church bishop that does not exclusively quote Vatican II, that does not teach sex education in his diocese, that does not believe in the salvation of non-Catholics, that does not use the CCC, that does not think JPII the Great was a great saint.......

    These one eyed "orthodox Catholic bishops" like Bishop Athanasius Schneider are just a false right. Read "The Usefulness of the False Right" http://www.traditioninaction.org/bev/177bev04_27_2015.htm

    "Bishop Scneider Speaks Out of Both Sides of His Mouth" http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B812_Schneider.html
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Incredulous

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #5 on: January 08, 2017, 10:35:25 AM »
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  • Bishop Williamson,
     
    Quote
    and that structure is very much part of Tradition – “Peter, feed my sheep” (Jn XXI, 17). Therefore however deep is the Conciliar corruption in Rome, Catholics must still be looking to Rome.


    I don't get it?  

    Is his excellency talking about "Rome" the historical sacred physical entity and geographic location or Francis and his ʝʊdɛօ-masonic riddled holy See ?

    If it's the latter, I'm not buying it.  

    I hear this "Rome" comment all the time from the neo-trad crowd and in their next breath, they label you as a sede or schismatic.  

    It's too much like Bp. Fellay's "primacy of Francis" spin.

    What else could he say... as he sells tradition down the river?




    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Wessex

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #6 on: January 09, 2017, 07:12:59 AM »
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  • I, too, search in vain for this Vatican at war. The new conciliar religion would after all this time have weeded out all its enemies leaving in play a variety of promoters only distinguishable by the strength of their conciliar zeal.

    We can of course look on and note the revolution is eating its own. It must always remain fresh and wow betide any stragglers! However, I am sure the spirit of V2 will prevail for several generations and set the tone for those psychologically in tune with its evolving religiosity. We hate to think what this is turning into. The locus of Catholicism is not modern Rome. This must be the case because so many traditional apostolates are now doing their own thing. Nostalgic references may be understandable  .....  but not for a convert bishop!    

    Offline JPaul

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 10:52:11 AM »
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  • Quote from: Wessex
    The locus of Catholicism is not modern Rome. This must be the case because so many traditional apostolates are now doing their own thing. Nostalgic references may be understandable  .....  but not for a convert bishop!    


    That is the reality that is still be obfuscated here by these neo-Traditional groups who actually conduct their business as autocephalous entities with no more than rhetorical fealty to the men whom they proclaim as their superior.

    Just as the conciliar bandits feign attachment to Tradition to maintain their legitimacy and hide their separation from the Christian religion, so do the others hide their independence from that authority by the romanticizing and waxing about "looking to Rome" to maintain their own legitimacy as part of the Church.

    .


    Offline JPaul

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 11:13:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous

    Bishop Williamson,
     
    Quote
    and that structure is very much part of Tradition – “Peter, feed my sheep” (Jn XXI, 17). Therefore however deep is the Conciliar corruption in Rome, Catholics must still be looking to Rome.


    I don't get it?  

    Is his excellency talking about "Rome" the historical sacred physical entity and geographic location or Francis and his ʝʊdɛօ-masonic riddled holy See ?

    If it's the latter, I'm not buying it.  

    I hear this "Rome" comment all the time from the neo-trad crowd and in their next breath, they label you as a sede or schismatic.  

    It's too much like Bp. Fellay's "primacy of Francis" spin.

    What else could he say... as he sells tradition down the river?






    And neither should you buy it! Both of these Bishops are on the same page, both believing that the Judaized conciliar sect is the true Church of Christ abeit with a few anti-Christ smudges soiling the spotless Bride's gown. Both of them failing to "distinquish and discriminate" between the conciliar sect and the true Church.

    The sect being no more than an ugly usurping overlay upon the beauty and integrity of the Church, not a part of it. Otherwise Christ's promise is made void and the Church has defected, which is not a possibility to the Catholic mind.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #9 on: January 09, 2017, 05:23:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: Wessex
    I, too, search in vain for this Vatican at war. The new conciliar religion would after all this time have weeded out all its enemies leaving in play a variety of promoters only distinguishable by the strength of their conciliar zeal.

    We can of course look on and note the revolution is eating its own. It must always remain fresh and wow betide any stragglers! However, I am sure the spirit of V2 will prevail for several generations and set the tone for those psychologically in tune with its evolving religiosity. We hate to think what this is turning into. The locus of Catholicism is not modern Rome. This must be the case because so many traditional apostolates are now doing their own thing. Nostalgic references may be understandable  .....  but not for a convert bishop!    



    Happy New Year Wessex!

    (long time... no post?)
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #10 on: January 09, 2017, 11:59:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous

    Bishop Williamson,
     
    Quote
    and that structure is very much part of Tradition – “Peter, feed my sheep” (Jn XXI, 17). Therefore however deep is the Conciliar corruption in Rome, Catholics must still be looking to Rome.

    I don't get it?  

    Is his excellency talking about "Rome" the historical sacred physical entity and geographic location or Francis and his ʝʊdɛօ-masonic riddled holy See ?

    If it's the latter, I'm not buying it.  

    I hear this "Rome" comment all the time from the neo-trad crowd and in their next breath, they label you as a sede or schismatic.  

    It's too much like Bp. Fellay's "primacy of Francis" spin.

    What else could he say... as he sells tradition down the river?



    "Is his excellency talking about "Rome" the historical sacred physical entity and geographic location, or Francis and his ʝʊdɛօ-masonic riddled holy See?"


    It seems to me it's both. That is, +W is using two different-but-not-unrelated connotations even in the SAME sentence! I would expect him to be expecting a lot of readers won't pick up on that literary device he's throwing into the mix here.

    First, when +W says "the Conciliar corruption in Rome," he's talking about Conciliar Rome which is indistinguishable from the corruption in the wake of the unclean spirit of Vat.II.

    Second, when +W says, "Catholics must still be looking to Rome," he's talking about the Papal See, or the office of the Supreme Shepherd, which does not actually HAVE to be in physical Rome, Italy.  Remember it was in France for a long time hundreds of years ago.

    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #11 on: January 10, 2017, 12:29:58 AM »
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  • Oh well, we can always dream....





    Centurions!

    They're no more papal guards of any manly merit, only wimpy ʝʊdɛօ-masonic agents.

    I say we cross this bridge, arrest Francis and hold an emergency Conclave!




    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Wessex

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #12 on: January 10, 2017, 06:54:32 AM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous
    Quote from: Wessex
    I, too, search in vain for this Vatican at war. The new conciliar religion would after all this time have weeded out all its enemies leaving in play a variety of promoters only distinguishable by the strength of their conciliar zeal.

    We can of course look on and note the revolution is eating its own. It must always remain fresh and wow betide any stragglers! However, I am sure the spirit of V2 will prevail for several generations and set the tone for those psychologically in tune with its evolving religiosity. We hate to think what this is turning into. The locus of Catholicism is not modern Rome. This must be the case because so many traditional apostolates are now doing their own thing. Nostalgic references may be understandable  .....  but not for a convert bishop!    



    Happy New Year Wessex!

    (long time... no post?)




    And the same to you and my old friends on this site. In a fast changing landscape very few of us are remaining constant. I perceive new allignments ahead; even in the case of Max Krah. Would you believe it? I will send a link in another thread.

    Offline Wessex

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #13 on: January 10, 2017, 07:57:07 AM »
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  • Quote from: JPaul
    Quote from: Wessex
    The locus of Catholicism is not modern Rome. This must be the case because so many traditional apostolates are now doing their own thing. Nostalgic references may be understandable  .....  but not for a convert bishop!    


    That is the reality that is still be obfuscated here by these neo-Traditional groups who actually conduct their business as autocephalous entities with no more than rhetorical fealty to the men whom they proclaim as their superior.

    Just as the conciliar bandits feign attachment to Tradition to maintain their legitimacy and hide their separation from the Christian religion, so do the others hide their independence from that authority by the romanticizing and waxing about "looking to Rome" to maintain their own legitimacy as part of the Church.

    .



    These bishops have nothing left to offer; at the end of a cul-de-sac there is only backtracking. We have seen this so many times elsewhere. They are in something of a denial when confronted with the transformation that is modern Rome and interpret it as a temporary blip. We would not mind a new Avignon filling the vacuum but we are bereft of true leaders. Econe showed some promise but was nothing more than posturing. Subsequently, more and more, we depend on hazy memories of a fast-receding Rome as sufficient justification for practising the faith.  It is nostalgia to the extreme. What use is a church without a dependable and visible functioning structure which as I write is suffering generational incomprehension? The timidity of R & R and its grossly inadequate prelates is no substitute.  

    Offline JPaul

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    Eleison Comments - Vatican War - Number CDXCV (495)
    « Reply #14 on: January 10, 2017, 07:59:08 AM »
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  • Neil Obstat,
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    It seems to me it's both. That is, +W is using two different-but-not-unrelated connotations even in the SAME sentence! I would expect him to be expecting a lot of readers won't pick up on that literary device he's throwing into the mix here.

    First, when +W says "the Conciliar corruption in Rome," he's talking about Conciliar Rome which is indistinguishable from the corruption in the wake of the unclean spirit of Vat.II.

    Second, when +W says, "Catholics must still be looking to Rome," he's talking about the Papal See, or the office of the Supreme Shepherd, which does not actually HAVE to be in physical Rome, Italy.  Remember it was in France for a long time hundreds of years ago.


    Yes it is both due to the fact he has made a point in the last few years to promote his belief that they are one and the same. He does not distinguish one as separate from the other and does not discriminate against the non-Catholic entity as being something other that the Catholic Church.

    He holds the same basic view as Bishop Fellay. Remember the half rotten fruit?

    The Lord Christ reveals the Truth of the matter when he said,
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    A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit.


    The Lord Himself here distinquishes and discriminates with divine logic and reasoning.