Author Topic: Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)  (Read 1091 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)
« on: January 23, 2021, 10:22:49 PM »
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  • Number DCCVI (706)
    January 23, 2021
    SSPX Re-Orientation
    The SSPX was cleverly deceived.
    Mankind was of its champion bereaved.

    Last November Fr Pagliarani, SSPX Superior General, wrote a letter to commemorate the 50th Anniversary of the founding of the Society. Fr. Edward MacDonald, “Resistance” priest in Australia, wrote a valuable commentary on that letter, summarised here below –
    1. Fr. Pagliarani asks: “Is the flame (‘that of a fearless charity’) received from our Founder still alive? Exposed to a crisis indefinitely prolonged in Church and world, is this precious torch not in danger of faltering and weakening?” – However, in his letter Fr. Pagliarani does not answer his own question.
    2. In his entire letter Fr. Pagliarini barely mentions the Second Vatican Council. Yet, if there had been no Vatican II, there would have been no need for the SSPX. Rome is the source of all the errors of faith, doctrine and morals that the SSPX fought against. The post-Conciliar Popes implemented the teachings of the Council. The apostasy is centred and headquartered in the Vatican. Fr. Pagliarani mentions nothing about the errors of Vatican II. Why not? For him that fight is over. The SSPX is now with Vatican II and the Conciliar Church, against the “Resistance” movement. 
    3. Fr. Pagliarani reduces the fight to “the spiritual life.” For Archbishop Lefebvre the reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ came first, and bringing spiritual life to souls was a necessary by-product of that primary aim. But Fr. Pagliarani makes the spiritual life primary, saying: “Our combat is to allow Our Lord Jesus Christ to be the axis of our spiritual life, the source of all our thoughts, all our words and all our actions.” 
    4. According to Fr. Pagliarani, everything has been said. There is no doctrinal battle left to wage. The SSPX will just continue to speak, presumably repeating old arguments, against the errors of Vatican II. In fact, the SSPX is not speaking against the errors of Vatican II. There is much new to say as the Pope continues to draw new errors out of the documents of Vatican II. Is the response to Amoris Laetitiae complete? If the SSPX has nothing new to say, it is because it has ceased to combat Vatican errors. 
    5. Archbishop Viganò is finding plenty of new things to say about the errors of the Conciliar Church. The SSPX cannot say these things because it has capitulated and been silenced. It can no longer defend the rights of Our Lord Jesus Christ. In November 2020, Fr. Daniel Themann, SSPX District Superior of Australia, forbade members to make a public protest against some very public worship of Satan in Queensland. They made reparation quietly in their chapel. 
    6. Weariness is a recurring theme in Fr. Pagliarani’s letter – this is not the case with the saints. They never weary, never grow tired of the battle. Archbishop Lefebvre never wearied of the fight, He was already retired when he realised that he had to take up arms in a new battle against the Conciliar Church. The SSPX has grown weary and fatigued and laid down its arms. It has “nothing new to say.” 
    7. For the last fifteen or more years the seminaries of the SSPX have not been giving the seminarians the doctrinal formation to combat the modern errors. Modernism and liberalism have been promoted in the seminaries. The ordinands are willing to compromise on the truth, and eagerly work with and submit to the modernist diocesan bishops. Fr. Wegner, former US District Superior, once boasted that he had made deals with forty US bishops, all of whom were modernist Conciliar liberals.  
    8. Every priest that has remained in the SSPX after its capitulation has decided explicitly, or at least tacitly, to accept this new orientation of the SSPX. They are no longer militant Catholics. The Church is indefectible. The SSPX was not. It has defected. 
    9. There is no further important organisation to stand against the onslaught of the forces of evil in the form of the atheistic communist conquest of society. The sterilisation of the SSPX stopped the last great source of grace and blessings for the world. The few pockets of resistance remaining are incapable of stopping, or even just hindering, the communist enslavement of the world.
    Kyrie eleison.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)
    « Reply #1 on: January 23, 2021, 10:31:12 PM »
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  • That's a good point.

    The SSPX, as the 800 lb gorilla in the Traditional Catholic world, wielded an influence, power, numbers, resources which dwarfed all other Trad groups, including the #2 Trad group (whatever that group happens to be).

    I wish there were a source of official numbers or statistics on the Trad world -- but the very nature of Traddieland is that it's decentralized and often off-the-grid.

    The SSPX was the lion's share. The 800 lb gorilla. Pick your metaphor.

    Is it a coincidence that the world is ONLY NOW on the brink of a full communist takeover? That the CÖVÌD hysteria only happened a few months or years after the SSPX finished falling, and not getting back up? The fall of the SSPX only became noticeable/public in 2012. And it took a few more years after that to kick out some of the old-school, good priests (including Bp. Williamson) and train more "new" priests. And of course the Faithful needed to be "worked on" -- a lot of propaganda and training was necessary.
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    Offline KevinBrumley

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    Re: Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)
    « Reply #2 on: January 23, 2021, 10:40:03 PM »
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  • "For the last fifteen or more years the seminaries of the SSPX have not been giving the seminarians the doctrinal formation to combat the modern errors. Modernism and liberalism have been promoted in the seminaries."

    Please provide evidence for this lack of doctrinal formation regarding modern errors in the seminary.  What are some examples of modernism and liberalism being promoted in the seminary.  This is a weighty charge and needs to be supported with evidence.

    Offline Donachie

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    Re: Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)
    « Reply #3 on: January 23, 2021, 10:49:13 PM »
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  • one thing that characterizes the modern world is the assembly line. then, of course, there is the international Marxist ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic cօռspιʀαcʏ, which is not any small joke.

    things that people believe and things they assemble. i'm not sure how to express what i might be trying to say. there's a market or markets and the assembly lines. they have Christmas markets in Strasbourg. they have Easter markets too. Lent's not so much of a market.

    it's marketing and the assembly line that makes things happen. marketing may be symbolic for devotion and faith.

    Offline Donachie

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    Re: Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)
    « Reply #4 on: January 23, 2021, 11:19:34 PM »
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  • for good and honest business people need to figure out how to market a safe and reliable product.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)
    « Reply #5 on: January 24, 2021, 12:17:09 AM »
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  • "For the last fifteen or more years the seminaries of the SSPX have not been giving the seminarians the doctrinal formation to combat the modern errors. Modernism and liberalism have been promoted in the seminaries."

    Please provide evidence for this lack of doctrinal formation regarding modern errors in the seminary.  What are some examples of modernism and liberalism being promoted in the seminary.  This is a weighty charge and needs to be supported with evidence.

    This is difficult to provide, unless you have a 18-23 year old man willing to go "undercover" at one of the SSPX seminaries, "Project Veritas" style.

    Most young men who enter the SSPX seminary in the US, for example, are pretty strong SSPX supporters, regardless of whether they are ordained or not. So even if they're just an "ex-seminarian", they still strongly support the SSPX, and aren't likely to speak to outsiders about their experience.

    That having been said, I did speak with one man who attended the SSPX seminary in 2000 and then again many years later. The differences were shocking. I wish I could get an exact interview to post here.

    When I first spoke with him, I reported some of it here on CathInfo. They were constantly pushing "The 3 D's" for example. Dependence, Delicacy, etc. They stopped teaching Theology in Latin. They started working very closely with Conciliar (Novus) bishops. The Modernism is plain to see.

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/neo-sspx-seminary-pushing-the-3-d's/

    Ceasing to have a problem with Modernist bishops, the Modernist Vatican II, and the Modernist Conciliar Church should be the biggest red flag of all, that Modernism has entered the SSPX.
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    Offline KevinBrumley

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    Re: Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)
    « Reply #6 on: January 24, 2021, 07:56:44 PM »
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  • This is difficult to provide, unless you have a 18-23 year old man willing to go "undercover" at one of the SSPX seminaries, "Project Veritas" style.

    Most young men who enter the SSPX seminary in the US, for example, are pretty strong SSPX supporters, regardless of whether they are ordained or not. So even if they're just an "ex-seminarian", they still strongly support the SSPX, and aren't likely to speak to outsiders about their experience.

    That having been said, I did speak with one man who attended the SSPX seminary in 2000 and then again many years later. The differences were shocking. I wish I could get an exact interview to post here.

    When I first spoke with him, I reported some of it here on CathInfo. They were constantly pushing "The 3 D's" for example. Dependence, Delicacy, etc. They stopped teaching Theology in Latin. They started working very closely with Conciliar (Novus) bishops. The Modernism is plain to see.

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/neo-sspx-seminary-pushing-the-3-d's/

    Ceasing to have a problem with Modernist bishops, the Modernist Vatican II, and the Modernist Conciliar Church should be the biggest red flag of all, that Modernism has entered the SSPX.
    1. Why undercover?  Just ask what the curriculum is currently being taught.
    2.  The gist of your reply is that you have no concrete evidence for the claim.  Rather, their relationship or lack thereof with the hierarchy is sort of negative proof that "modernism has entered the SSPX."  No, not exactly, that's a logical leap.  I get that there are real problems in the SSPX, but making such assertions without proof only hurts your credibility.  In fact, the effort to put your disagreement on a doctrinal level is an implicit admission that anything less wouldn't justify "resistance."  Hence, the claim that doctrinal errors, not practical foolishness, is the real problem.  But in realty, something as simple as human respect could bring down an entire organization.  The mere desire to want to be at peace with one's enemies when there is a battle to be fought could potentially spell disaster and that can occur without changing one iota of doctrine.  They have the unenviable task of at once admitting all bishops have legitimate authority while at the same time trying to justify disobedience to the same group of men who are destroying the Church.  When those who they recognize as a true authorities desire to communicate or work with them, it is a very delicate situation, no?  Have they gone too far?  I say yes, they have.  I believe Fr. Wegner and Bishop Fellay should be expelled.  Many priests in the SSPX believe the same thing.  But to place this at the feet of modernism is simply without foundation.        

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)
    « Reply #7 on: January 24, 2021, 08:35:49 PM »
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  • Rome is the source of all the errors of faith, doctrine and morals that the SSPX fought against. The post-Conciliar Popes implemented the teachings of the Council. The apostasy is centred and headquartered in the Vatican.

    Do tell...

    While people endlessly squabble about the legitimacy of claimants to the See of Peter, the real issue is the undeniable fact that the entire institution which has its headquarters in Rome is clearly an impostor, no longer promoting the One True Faith but destroying the faith of hundreds of millions.  If the body is alien, so must be the head thereof.

    "Is he the pope or isn't he?"  Better to ask, "Is that the Church or isn't it?"

    If that THING is the Church and THIS is what the promises, protections and guidance of God amount to, they aren't worth a whole lot, are they?

    For what it is worth, it is rather difficult to have an apostasy without actual apostates, whether de facto or de jure.
    + Vincit veritas +


    Offline KevinBrumley

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    Re: Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)
    « Reply #8 on: January 24, 2021, 11:15:08 PM »
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  • Do tell...

    While people endlessly squabble about the legitimacy of claimants to the See of Peter, the real issue is the undeniable fact that the entire institution which has its headquarters in Rome is clearly an impostor, no longer promoting the One True Faith but destroying the faith of hundreds of millions.  If the body is alien, so must be the head thereof.

    "Is he the pope or isn't he?"  Better to ask, "Is that the Church or isn't it?"

    If that THING is the Church and THIS is what the promises, protections and guidance of God amount to, they aren't worth a whole lot, are they?

    For what it is worth, it is rather difficult to have an apostasy without actual apostates, whether de facto or de jure.
    Well, I'm sure you've heard this before but if the entire hierarchy, the entire "official" Church is simply speaking a non-Catholic sect, this would seem to call into doubt other dogmas concerning the very nature of the Church.  The question is to what degree can a man ruin the Church and still retain a legal title to the name Catholic and membership within the Church?  From my reading of history it's quite a high degree depending on the circumstances.  Many are indeed apostates and heretics who lay claim to authority.  There are many others who are not apostates or heretics but who can cause just as much harm.  

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)
    « Reply #9 on: January 25, 2021, 11:41:30 AM »
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  • Do tell...

    While people endlessly squabble about the legitimacy of claimants to the See of Peter, the real issue is the undeniable fact that the entire institution which has its headquarters in Rome is clearly an impostor, no longer promoting the One True Faith but destroying the faith of hundreds of millions.  If the body is alien, so must be the head thereof.

    "Is he the pope or isn't he?"  Better to ask, "Is that the Church or isn't it?"

    If that THING is the Church and THIS is what the promises, protections and guidance of God amount to, they aren't worth a whole lot, are they?

    For what it is worth, it is rather difficult to have an apostasy without actual apostates, whether de facto or de jure.

    Archbishop Lefebvre maintained that the Church is occupied by a Modernist sect. Occupation doesn't necessarily mean that there is nothing of the True Faith left in Rome, or in the conciliar church. There may still be those in Rome who still hold to some semblance of the Catholic Faith, alongside those who, as +ABL said, are Apostates.
    "This forum is a space for discussion to defend the Catholic Faith following Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre. It is therefore not for rallying to the conciliar church nor for sedevacantism"
    - From the French Resistance forum (Francophone forum, in France)

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)
    « Reply #10 on: January 25, 2021, 01:26:20 PM »
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  •  Has SSPX succumbed to New Church? Has it given in doctrinally? Has the society “capitulated?” Maybe, at some level, yes. But for me, the major failures of the organization are its moral ones. Church Militant, since April, 2020, has carefully chronicled priest sex abuse and pedophile scandals within the organization since at least the 80s. CM discovers that SSPX hierarchy, just like the New Order, which it used to assault relentlessly, bends over backwards to hide Society scandals. They cover up for priests who commit such abuses. They reassign these priests to other parishes, where the same crimes are committed again. Just like New Church. SSPX hierarchy hides them out of the way in remote places, as does New Church. They rarely discipline or defrock priests that commit these heinous acts.
    I wish that Bishop Williamson would address these issues in at least one of his future ECs. But I doubt that he will. Because for him, and for all you others, apparently, deviations from true Catholic doctrine, teaching and dogma occupy center stage, as, perhaps, they should under (normal) circumstances. But how can you all seemingly look past that other 800 pound gorilla in the SSPX living room? Yes, the Conciliar Church is compromised doctrinally and morally. But now, so is the SSPX.


    Offline Donachie

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    Re: Eleison Comments - SSPX Re-orientation (no 706)
    « Reply #11 on: January 26, 2021, 07:31:05 AM »
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  • Bishop Williamson should get a "bitchute" channel so he can comment on the massive Bıdɛn-hαɾɾιs Society voter fɾαυd 2020.

    E. Michael Jones is over there. As far as voter fɾαυd as a generality goes, stօʟɛn ɛʟɛctιօns and so forth, i accept the Cardinal Siri Thesis.





     

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