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Author Topic: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)  (Read 7889 times)

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Offline Merry

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Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
« Reply #165 on: December 04, 2022, 07:42:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 29, 2022, 12:34:34 AM
    They changed it back about 12-13 years ago to "for many".  You gotta keep up, man.

    I realized the New Church had changed the words at their consecration of the wine with "for many," but thought like Incredulous that its use would be spotty.

    To update - this morning, while doing other things, I put on the local Novus Ordo live tv Mass to see how it was handled at this venue. I had muted the volume, but kept checking the screen, and unmuted it at their consecration.  The priest did say "for many," reading everything from a missal laying in front of him. 

    Speculation was that this "change back" happened, because the New Church knows it thereby removes the cause of complaint that Trads or purists had about how they'd tampered with the wine formula. And it could be safely done because at this point, there were no more "real" priests that may cause real Transubstantiation, due to how the Sacrament of Holy Orders and the Episcopal consecration had been tampered with. They'd also gotten all the use they could out of "for all," as far as their ecuмenist goals were concerned.

    Between the New Mass abuses of Quo Primum, and how the Church has condemned Modernism as a heresy - plus a multitude of other factors -  it seems almost preposterous that traditional priests or bishops are still not seeing the Modernists' New Mass in any of its forms as an illegal sacrilege, and thereby telling their people to stay away from it.  The only Mass allowed in the Roman Rite is the Tridentine Latin Mass.    


    "I am only the Pope.  Who am I to touch the Canon?" - Pius IX




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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
    « Reply #166 on: December 04, 2022, 08:59:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Merry on December 04, 2022, 07:42:16 PM
    I realized the New Church had changed the words at their consecration of the wine with "for many," but thought like Incredulous that its use would be spotty.

    To update - this morning, while doing other things, I put on the local Novus Ordo live tv Mass to see how it was handled at this venue. I had muted the volume, but kept checking the screen, and unmuted it at their consecration.  The priest did say "for many," reading everything from a missal laying in front of him.

    Speculation was that this "change back" happened, because the New Church knows it thereby removes the cause of complaint that Trads or purists had about how they'd tampered with the wine formula. And it could be safely done because at this point, there were no more "real" priests that may cause real Transubstantiation, due to how the Sacrament of Holy Orders and the Episcopal consecration had been tampered with.

    Yes, that's my theory.  They changed it back just in time for the remaining valid pre-V2-ordained priests to be mostly in nursing homes.  That's yet another clue or "dot" to suggest that the New Rite of Ordination was invalidated by design, that the removal of the "ut" was very deliberate and had its intended effect.

    They could have simply invalidated episcopal consecration (which they did of course), but that would have delayed the disappearance of valid Catholic priests by about 10-15 years if the ordination rite remained valid.

    See, while those who defend the new ordination claim that "it's just a single two-letter word," to me the "it's just a single two-letter word" is evidence of the opposite, that it's invalid.  Why else would the Modernists even bother with that?  It did not render it even the least bit more accessible to modern man (as was the excuse for most of their changes).  No, the "ut" was removed on purpose to invalidate the rite while going unnoticed by most.
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    Offline rosarytrad

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
    « Reply #167 on: December 05, 2022, 07:47:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 04, 2022, 08:59:20 PM
    See, while those who defend the new ordination claim that "it's just a single two-letter word," to me the "it's just a single two-letter word" is evidence of the opposite, that it's invalid.  Why else would the Modernists even bother with that?  It did not render it even the least bit more accessible to modern man (as was the excuse for most of their changes).  No, the "ut" was removed on purpose to invalidate the rite while going unnoticed by most.
    Ladislaus, I read something recently that says the New Ordinal of 1969 fails to confer: the prayer of consecration of the hands of the ordinand, or the prayer for the consecrated hands to consecrate, hallow or bless... it amazes me how botched these new ordinations are.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
    « Reply #168 on: December 05, 2022, 07:56:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: rosarytrad on December 05, 2022, 07:47:51 AM
    Ladislaus, I read something recently that says the New Ordinal of 1969 fails to confer: the prayer of consecration of the hands of the ordinand, or the prayer for the consecrated hands to consecrate, hallow or bless... it amazes me how botched these new ordinations are.

    I think that the Rite could still potentially remain valid without those aspects, as long as they retained the essential form and didn't put anything in there that would militate against the conferral of the priesthood.  I hold the removal of "ut" to be highly suspicious precisely because it does seem like such a slight change.  Of course, one would have to believe ... as I do ... that with regard to the Conciliar Church, "an enemy hath done this", i.e. that this destruction was deliberately planned and engineered rather than that these were mistakes made by Modernist-infected, but otherwise well-intentioned, individuals who simply wanted to make the Church's doctrine and the Mass "more accessible" and "more relevant" to modern man, where they actually were doing this to convert people to the Church.

    While there were undoubtedly some who went along with it for those latter reasons, the engineers of the change and the "deciders", those who pushed and implemented the changes, they had a much more nefarious intent.
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    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
    « Reply #169 on: December 05, 2022, 08:09:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: rosarytrad on December 05, 2022, 07:47:51 AM
    the New Ordinal of 1969 fails to confer: the prayer of consecration of the hands of the ordinand, or the prayer for the consecrated hands to consecrate, hallow or bless... it amazes me how botched these new ordinations are.

    The fly on the wall asks himself (and answers) a few questions - 

    Why would good Catholic bishops need to create a new, additional rite that perpetuates the Catholic religion just as the old rite did?  Oh, that's right, they're not Catholics.  They're apostates, heretics, Freemasons, Communists, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs and Modernists.

    NO WAY!!! Were the faithful ever warned this demolition and Apostasy might happen?  Yes.  In fact, it's in Scripture, and numerous accounts from private revelation cover it as well.

    You mean Vatican II and Roman Catholicism are not the same and were designed to be that way???  Uh, yeah.  Pope Saint Paul VI said exactly that and docuмents like the Alta Vendita show this planned infiltration as well.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
    « Reply #170 on: December 05, 2022, 08:26:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: Merry on December 04, 2022, 07:42:16 PM


    "I am only the Pope.  Who am I to touch the Canon?" - Pius IX
     
    “Pio Nono” was a wonderful Papa!

    The above comment is an anti-thesis of the Jєω-anti-Pope’s words:

    “Who am I to judge”
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
    « Reply #171 on: December 05, 2022, 08:35:21 AM »
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    • Quote from: hollingsworth on December 03, 2022, 11:58:27 AM
    Focusing now on part 1b of +Williamson's latest Kyrie Eleison.  Does anyone volunteer to enlighten my understanding on this section.  I refer particularly to the last part in bold letters.  How do the Eucharistic miracles warn lovers of the new Mass that they are going to Hell?  Is the answer obvious, and is only my cognitive decline the reason I don't understand?


    Holly, 

    As concerns reading comprehension for the elderly, your question demonstrates a good cognitive aptitude.

    As a certified instructor of Reading skills for old people, I believe you passed the test.

    Concerning Bp. Williamson’s written communication skills…      ….. uh… we need to bring in another specialist to examine that. 🙄

    Maybe Lads can translate the esoteric meaning His Lordship was trying to convey?
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
    « Reply #172 on: December 14, 2022, 12:36:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: MiracleOfTheSun on December 02, 2022, 06:49:50 PM
    C'est la vie...  How can a Mass enforced by a legitimate authority, which produces miracles, lead anyone to Hell?  If the Mass is a Catholic one, and the faithful can attend it, the faithful should attend it.  There is really no need to obtain Sacraments from illegal chapels not recognized by the local ordinary.  What are trads actually doing?
    Exactemente. ;)
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
    « Reply #173 on: December 14, 2022, 12:39:57 PM »
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    • ::)

    One almost gets the impression that the oversimplification is deliberate, to preserve a narrative (and that others are taking delight in the artifice).
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
    « Reply #174 on: December 14, 2022, 12:43:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 14, 2022, 12:39:57 PM
    ::)

    One almost gets the impression that the oversimplification is deliberate, to preserve a narrative (and that others are taking delight in the artifice).
    Or that the undersimplification is deliberate to preserve a Bishop Williamson narrative. ;)
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
    « Reply #175 on: December 14, 2022, 12:48:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on December 14, 2022, 12:43:00 PM
    Or that the undersimplification is deliberate to preserve a Bishop Williamson narrative. ;)

    As stated in the other thread, I know you have the theological need for that to be true.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
    « Reply #176 on: December 14, 2022, 01:00:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 14, 2022, 12:48:43 PM
    As stated in the other thread, I know you have the theological need for that to be true.
    And as I stated in the other thread...still no proof that your NO miracles increase anyone's faith and finds Tradition.

    Are you also de Lugo Sean? 
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing Part 1 (no. 802)
    « Reply #177 on: December 14, 2022, 01:04:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on December 14, 2022, 01:00:04 PM
    And as I stated in the other thread...still no proof that your NO miracles increase anyone's faith and finds Tradition.

    Are you also de Lugo Sean?

    Still no proof God works according to your arbitrary criteria.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."
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