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Author Topic: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)  (Read 10288 times)

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Offline Deipara

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Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2022, 08:35:53 AM »
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  • From Archbishop Lefebvre's book for his priests, Spiritual Journey: 

    "The devil’s action since Vatican II is very revealing. It obliges those who wish to remain Catholic to courageously defend the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Priesthood as Our Lord instituted them." 

    Not as Bugnini/Paul VI instituted them. We can't lose sight of who 'created' the New Mass. 


    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #46 on: December 14, 2022, 08:39:09 AM »
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  • From Archbishop Lefebvre's book for his priests, Spiritual Journey:

    "The devil’s action since Vatican II is very revealing. It obliges those who wish to remain Catholic to courageously defend the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Priesthood as Our Lord instituted them."

    Not as Bugnini/Paul VI instituted them. We can't lose sight of who 'created' the New Mass.

    The Catholic faith is just about extinct, in about 50 years, due to the Bastardo service.  Some things speak for themselves.  The proof is in the pudding, as they say.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #47 on: December 14, 2022, 09:02:58 AM »
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  • The rite is defective as the 3 different citations maintain.

    Your charity is almost as sharp as your wit.  I'm rooting for you.  You can do it!

    Perhaps you should reread your comment on charity, and reflect.

    What does the rite have to do with whether God can work a miracle?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #48 on: December 14, 2022, 09:08:56 AM »
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  • From Archbishop Lefebvre's book for his priests, Spiritual Journey:

    "The devil’s action since Vatican II is very revealing. It obliges those who wish to remain Catholic to courageously defend the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Priesthood as Our Lord instituted them."

    Not as Bugnini/Paul VI instituted them. We can't lose sight of who 'created' the New Mass.

    Can you please explain what this has to do with NOM miracles?

    You seem to be stuck in the same previously disproven Hewkonian rut as MOTS: That any miracle implies God’s approval of the rite.

    I already demonstrated the arbitrarily of that claim.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #49 on: December 14, 2022, 09:14:35 AM »
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  • The Catholic faith is just about extinct, in about 50 years, due to the Bastardo service.  Some things speak for themselves.  The proof is in the pudding, as they say.

    Can you dial that in a bit, and cite some Church sources teaching that Eucharistic miracles are performed by God to express his approval of a rite?

    That would win your case for you, but you can’t.

    Seems pretty obvious to me that my understanding (ie., God performs Eucharistic miracles to increase faith) is closer to the mark.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #50 on: December 14, 2022, 09:37:43 AM »
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  • Seems pretty obvious to me that my understanding... is closer to the mark.

    So much for my citing Catholic docuмents.  Take it easy, Bud.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #51 on: December 14, 2022, 09:47:43 AM »
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  • So much for my citing Catholic docuмents.  Take it easy, Bud.

    Docuмents that have nothing to do with the issue at hand.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #52 on: December 14, 2022, 09:56:31 AM »
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  • Docuмents that have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

    As the great Vanilla Ice used to say, 'Word to your mother'.  Not sure why that popped into my head but there ya go.

    Doesn't sound like much has to do with your issue at hand to be honest.  No offense, just saying.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #53 on: December 14, 2022, 10:01:46 AM »
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  • This is the entry in the Catholic Encyclopedia regarding miracles:

    CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Miracle (newadvent.org)


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #54 on: December 14, 2022, 10:07:55 AM »
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  • As the great Vanilla Ice used to say, 'Word to your mother'.  Not sure why that popped into my head but there ya go.

    Doesn't sound like much has to do with your issue at hand to be honest.  No offense, just saying.

    Agreed.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #55 on: December 14, 2022, 10:08:18 AM »
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  • This is the entry in the Catholic Encyclopedia regarding miracles:

    CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Miracle (newadvent.org)

    What would you like me to take away from this article?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #56 on: December 14, 2022, 10:19:52 AM »
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  • Agreed.

    Sean, must you feel the need to reply to everything?  haha

    Offline Deipara

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #57 on: December 14, 2022, 10:22:43 AM »
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  • We all know that God only works miracles in confirmation of the truth, not a confirmation of a falsehood. A miracle in the NO would give legitimacy to the Modernist Conciliar schismatic religion, which Archbishop Lefebvre called a bastard rite. 

    (It appears that turning to the Archbishop earns oneself the name of 'Hewkonian.' But that is simply a distraction. And a poor one at that.) 

    A sede commentary on +W's position on these fake Eucharistic miracles - which I don't agree with that position but in this case, the author is spot on. And if anyone has taken the time to study the docuмents of Vatican II, it becomes quickly apparent that there is a truth to the last paragraph in particular: 


    "How does Williamson claim to know that these reported miracles are genuine and not fake? Is he relying on the Vatican II Church to tell him this — the same church whose canonizations he doubts, whose teachings he rejects, whose laws he denounces, whose marriage annulments he sneers at? The same church which has introduced a new, apostate religion whose job it is to undermine and destroy Catholicism? Seriously — is this the basis on which he accepts alleged miracles as genuine? Or is it simply his own, fallible discernment, his mere “opinion”, so to speak? ... 

    "It is quite frightening to see how much Williamson’s theology resembles that of Vatican II and the Neo-Modernists. For example, he effectively takes a line of “reject[ing] nothing that is true and holy in [false] religions” (Vatican II, Declaration Nostra Aetate, n. 2) and tries to find “elements” of goodness and truth in the Novus Ordo worship service that can “impel” towards Catholicism (Vatican II, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, n. 8) inasmuch as they “nourish your faith.” This is straight out of the Modernist playbook!"


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #58 on: December 14, 2022, 11:11:35 AM »
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  • What would you like me to take away from this article?
    I haven't had the time to find specific quotes from it, but I thought it would be a good place for others to find support for their position on Eucharistic miracles via the Novus Ordo.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Questions Ensuing III (no. 804)
    « Reply #59 on: December 14, 2022, 11:50:56 AM »
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  • Sean, must you feel the need to reply to everything?  haha

    Incorrect :laugh2:
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."