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Author Topic: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)  (Read 2687 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
« on: February 18, 2018, 01:37:31 PM »
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  • Number DLIII (553)
    February 17, 2018
    Parenting Today – I
    Poor parents! Is there nothing we can do?
    Stay tuned, to get next week an idea or two.

    Nearly 20 years ago a priest of the Society of St Pius X, master of an Ignatian Retreat House in France and therefore in close contact with Traditional Catholic family problems, wrote an excellent editorial on How our youngsters are evolving. He paints a dark picture. Alas, the picture has grown only darker in the meantime. We must not despair, but on the other hand parents must see things as they are. It is not as though today’s youngsters are blameless, but parents must do everything possible to put them on the path to Heaven, because even today that is still the responsibility of parents. Here is the dark picture, adapted and abbreviated from Revue Marchons Droit, # 90, avril-mai-juin, 2000:—
    In the Retreats we see youngsters growing up, incapable of rebuilding Christendom. The sacrifices made by parents and teachers seem to have borne no proportional fruit. Clearly something is not working , and if we do not react, then within two generations we will be swallowed up by the spirit of the world.
    Young people we observe between 18 and 30 years old are profoundly ignorant of the crisis in Church and world, not because they have not been taught, but for lack of interest . Broadly speaking, they follow along the lines of their parents, but they cannot explain on their own what is wrong with the New Mass, with Vatican II, with the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr. Never having had to fight, to defend their beliefs or to resist, and so never having studied for themselves, when they meet the world they easily give way. They want to be like everybody else , they do not want to be different, they lack the personal conviction to stand up for Catholic Tradition, and so instead of being Apostles of Christ, little by little they go with the flow.
    Where will there be tomorrow the go od vocations, the good Christian families we so urgently need? Vocations grow rare, marriages grow weak or dry up altogether, formation grows soft, immaturity takes over. All the youngsters want is to enjoy. The boys lack character, sense of responsibility, generosity, self-control, everything that parents should be inculcating in them to turn them into the men we can rely on for tomorrow: men chaste, mature, thoughtful, hard-working, magnanimous. Without such men of conviction, where will be the heads of tomorrow’s families? The girls are also being reared in disorder.
    Instead of preparing for motherhood and for looking after a family, they learn to look down on the domesticity which is their true vocation, and they are encouraged to study longer and longer, thus acquiring a spirit of independence , alongside a worldliness turning to fashion, parties and rock music. How can mothers give way to their girls’ min i-skirts and trousers, to their loose dress for parties which are obvious occasions of sin, where they waste their time and soil the purity of their hearts?
    The result is young people getting married at 20 or 22 years of age, when they are absolutely not ready. And soon the children are arriving whom they have no idea of how to bring up. If I look at the young couples I have married – in Tradition – since my ordination in 1980, thank God there have been no divorces, but I have to say that half the marriages are hanging on a thread, being held together only by the youngsters’ Catholic principles. Parents, do you realise what you need to be giving to your children for their future in today’s world? You must for God’s sake form your boys to be men worthy of the name and your girls to be women worthy of the name. Do your duty. Otherwise, your children risk losing their souls, and Christendom is finished.
    Surely Fr Delagneau is right. Christendom is in serious danger, no less. Now can we see why in 2018 God is allowing Europe and France in particular to be filled by His enemies with His enemies? And why He is allowing the Society of St Pius X to be sliding into the arms of His enemies? He did not create us to fall into Hell. He created us to fight the good fight to get to Heaven. And He will permit any disaster that will shake us off the road to Hell, and put us back on the road to Heaven. Wait for it!
    Kyrie eleison.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 01:47:03 PM »
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  • This one hits on my favorite topic, "Tradition", specifically "the Future of Tradition" and raising one's children Catholic in this modern world.

    Basically this EC could go in the "Catholics Living in the Modern World" subforum -- and let's just say there's a reason I started that subforum.

    The passing on of Tradition from one generation to the next, the effects of the modern world upon our children, and dozens of related topics is SO much more useful and SO much more worthy of our consideration and study than dead-end topics that really don't matter, such as:

    * The status of the Pope
    * The shape of the earth
    * Feeneyism/BoD, BoB
    * How all of Tradition (except "me") got it wrong, and how *I* would fix Tradition if only people would listen to me...

    A person could spend hours arguing those topics, thinking he does well "defending the truth", all the while his children lose the faith because he doesn't apply himself where he is most needed in the battle.

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    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #2 on: February 18, 2018, 02:24:48 PM »
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  • This one hits on my favorite topic, "Tradition", specifically "the Future of Tradition" and raising one's children Catholic in this modern world.

    Basically this EC could go in the "Catholics Living in the Modern World" subforum -- and let's just say there's a reason I started that subforum.

    The passing on of Tradition from one generation to the next, the effects of the modern world upon our children, and dozens of related topics is SO much more useful and SO much more worthy of our consideration and study than dead-end topics that really don't matter, such as:

    * The status of the Pope
    * The shape of the earth
    * Feeneyism/BoD, BoB
    * How all of Tradition (except "me") got it wrong, and how *I* would fix Tradition if only people would listen to me...

    A person could spend hours arguing those topics, thinking he does well "defending the truth", all the while his children lose the faith because he doesn't apply himself where he is most needed in the battle.
    Spot on, Matthew! The new generation of traditional Catholics simply do not grasp the problems of the modern world (in the Church and society). Let's face it, it takes a great amount of fortitude and will-power to be counter-cultural. It is much easier to simply go along with the tide. Who wants to stand up for the Faith, cost what may? If the youth are going to the TLM simply because that is what their parents are doing then that will not have much of an affect on their daily life. I mean the Gospel and the teachings of the Church should influence our whole being and not only be practiced on Sunday morning.

    Again, you are so correct, Matthew. As parents we could go on and on about all of these theological topics and spend countless hours on the internet "debating" all the heathens and Novus Ordo Catholics while our children are starving for our attention or a great example of the faith.
    I say all of this with a big finger pointed towards my own life and how I have been living the faith.

    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 07:36:06 PM »
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  • I meant effect not affect. 

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #4 on: February 18, 2018, 09:46:11 PM »
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  • I told my wife 15 years ago:

    "I wonder who will be the traditionalists of tomorrow? I do not think it will be the people our age and younger that we see around us, they have had it given to them. I think the future traditionalists will come from the fallen away who return from the gutters, like we did".

    With every day that passes I see it unfolding as I thought it would. The SSPX schooled children who are now even up to 50 years old, have no fight in them. They prefer the drinks when they get home and playing cards with their buddies, than teach the fight to their children. 

    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline opus

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #5 on: February 18, 2018, 09:57:17 PM »
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  • I, for one, have seen many, if not most second-generation traditional Catholics in my local SSPX chapel who don't understand the crisis and definitely will not pass on their Catholic Faith. There is no catechism class in the church, and nothing that teaches about the Crisis to the teenagers... they are the neglected group there.
    How to keep the children Catholic??? ?

    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 09:48:55 AM »
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  • I told my wife 15 years ago:

    "I wonder who will be the traditionalists of tomorrow? I do not think it will be the people our age and younger that we see around us, they have had it given to them. I think the future traditionalists will come from the fallen away who return from the gutters, like we did".

    With every day that passes I see it unfolding as I thought it would. The SSPX schooled children who are now even up to 50 years old, have no fight in them. They prefer the drinks when they get home and playing cards with their buddies, than teach the fight to their children.
    The same goes for those children currently in the "Resistance". I wouldn't even bet a few cents on their future reliability. The girls can't even dress right outside of Sundays. The one's who should know better don't or don't care; and even if thw parents don't teach them, they could teach themselves by reading the books in their own home, but they don't. When someone as uneducated as myself opens the mouth and all around believe you to be smart... there is a terrible problem at hand! 
       In my opinion, people who left the SSPX for the "Resistance" have not changed for the better, with maybe a couple exceptions. The only thing that seems to have changed is where you attend Mass. They are still the same ole' SSPXers.
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll

    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #7 on: February 19, 2018, 09:56:19 AM »
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  • I, for one, have seen many, if not most second-generation traditional Catholics in my local SSPX chapel who don't understand the crisis and definitely will not pass on their Catholic Faith. There is no catechism class in the church, and nothing that teaches about the Crisis to the teenagers... they are the neglected group there.
    How to keep the children Catholic??? ?
    By one's own examples of sacrifice do you make an impression on your children. You can't necessarily worry about another persons kid if they are not in your imediate environment for you to be an example and teacher. If the school ain't teaching them, YOU teach your kids their Faith. If you can't put the time in: 

    Something I enjoyed visiting the Benedictine monastery in New Mexico was that they had some one read from a religious book while everyone was eating. Tgey would even take turns reading out loud. The Dominicans of Avrillé did the same at a retreat, and if made the meal more interesting. This is something I think families could also mimick for the better.
      You could use any book; The Bible, the Catechism, lives of saint's, Church History, etc.
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll


    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 10:13:19 AM »
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  • The same goes for those children currently in the "Resistance". I wouldn't even bet a few cents on their future reliability. The girls can't even dress right outside of Sundays. The one's who should know better don't or don't care; and even if thw parents don't teach them, they could teach themselves by reading the books in their own home, but they don't. When someone as uneducated as myself opens the mouth and all around believe you to be smart... there is a terrible problem at hand!
       In my opinion, people who left the SSPX for the "Resistance" have not changed for the better, with maybe a couple exceptions. The only thing that seems to have changed is where you attend Mass. They are still the same ole' SSPXers.
    Again, I stand accused if I am not doing my job as a father and husband. You are absolutely correct though. You can say "I am not going to the SSPX because they are compromisers" but if you live like every other pagan outside of the 1 hour on Sunday and your children are allowed to do whatever they want, are allowed to go on the internet unsupervised (or at all!), and your daughters are allowed to date and dress immodestly at home -- the list can can go on -- then WHO CARES IF YOU GO TO THE RESISTANCE. I wonder do people go to Resistance because they want to be more isolated and be more worldly since there are so few opportunities to go to Mass? 

    It is the age old problem of grace and nature. 

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #9 on: February 19, 2018, 10:16:16 AM »
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  • Quote
    How can mothers give way to their girls’ min i-skirts and trousers, to their loose dress for parties which are obvious occasions of sin, where they waste their time and soil the purity of their hearts?

    Because they themselves are hopelessly deluded
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #10 on: February 19, 2018, 10:24:42 AM »
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  • I think this cultural question in a certain sense takes precedence over the complex theological issues facing us. If we can't get these questions correct then our children stand no chance once they are on their own and have to live and work among non-Catholics.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #11 on: February 19, 2018, 10:36:18 AM »
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  • ... SO much more useful and SO much more worthy of our consideration and study than dead-end topics that really don't matter, such as:

    * The status of the Pope
    * The shape of the earth
    * Feeneyism/BoD, BoB
    * How all of Tradition (except "me") got it wrong, and how *I* would fix Tradition if only people would listen to me...

    A person could spend hours arguing those topics, thinking he does well "defending the truth", all the while his children lose the faith because he doesn't apply himself where he is most needed in the battle.

    While I can agree that people need to focus more on saving their souls given their state of life (including the well-being of their children if they have any), and I can even agree that many of these topics are indeed dead-end topics, since they're not going to be resolved any time soon, I simply cannot agree that these things "really don't matter" (except perhaps the shape of the earth one).  Bishop Williamson would be the first to disagree with you; one of his favorite sayings was that "ideas matter".

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #12 on: February 19, 2018, 10:42:46 AM »
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  • There's something else going on here, though, people.  I have seen parents who were truly devoted to raising their children correctly, who gave their kids a strong Traditional Catholic education, who established a good devout atmosphere at home ... STILL end up with apathetic/lukewarm kids ... and even kids who left the Church.  You can put all these things in front of a soul, but at the end of the day there's the mystery of FREE WILL.  You can lead the horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.  And I see less and less GRACE in the world which would inspire children to embrace deeply what they have been taught.

    With fewer and fewer valid Masses left in the world, the grace is drying up.  And more and more I sense that the devil is completely taking over the world.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #13 on: February 19, 2018, 10:52:09 AM »
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  • I think this cultural question in a certain sense takes precedence over the complex theological issues facing us. If we can't get these questions correct then our children stand no chance once they are on their own and have to live and work among non-Catholics.

    I think you are right. In the society we are living in, even the moral and very biological foundations for the preservation of humanity are being under vicious attack. The demolition of the Traditional family, the emasculation of men, the masculinization of women, the glorification of impurity and evil, and even a complete disconnect with objective reality itself are serious and real issues that parents are facing today. This is, after all, the collapse of an entire civilization and it is as if we need to start rebuilding from zero.

    I mean, we are at the point of even asking if there will be any children at all tomorrow to carry on Catholicism?
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Parenting Today I (no. 553)
    « Reply #14 on: February 19, 2018, 10:52:38 AM »
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  • While I can agree that people need to focus more on saving their souls given their state of life (including the well-being of their children if they have any), and I can even agree that many of these topics are indeed dead-end topics, since they're not going to be resolved any time soon, I simply cannot agree that these things "really don't matter" (except perhaps the shape of the earth one).  Bishop Williamson would be the first to disagree with you; one of his favorite sayings was that "ideas matter".
    I think it is a question of priority. Of course you are right that "ideas matter". And the "idea" of giving your children a proper formation takes precedence. If you are allowing your daughter to date at a young age (and I have seen this) then does it really matter if you as a father know how to debate the question of whether there is a Pope or whether there is such a thing as "baptism of blood/desire"?