Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)  (Read 2788 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8212
  • Reputation: +7173/-7
  • Gender: Male
Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
« on: December 08, 2012, 11:48:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0


  • Number CCLXXXII (282) 8 December 2012

    AN EXPLANATION ?


    An acquaintance sent to me recently a copy circularized to all SSPX priests by SSPX Headquarters (HQ) of an official explanation of five possibly troubling remarks of the SSPX’s Superior General (SG), and this person asked for my opinion. I honestly think that Superiors of the SSPX might be as troubled as before. Very briefly, here is why:--

    Firstly, in Austria in May, the SG said that the SSPX needed to re-think its relations with Rome. HQ explains that this was no change of the SSPX’s position on Newrome, but merely a call for SSPX members to recognize that not everything said by Newromans is nonsense. However, the priests who heard the original words in Austria understood the SG to be meaning the same as what he wrote in the Society’s in-house magazine of last March (Cor Unum), namely that the “new situation” in the Church “requires that we take up a new position with respect to the official Church,” because since 2006 “we have witnessed a development in the Church.” Does HQ have an explanation for these written words of the SG ?

    Secondly, on the same occasion the SG is meant to have said that the potential agreement with Rome would mean every chapel less than three years old being pulled down. HQ explains that in fact the SG said that where the SSPX had said Mass for more than three years, a chapel could be set up. However, the SG did also say that wherever the SSPX had ministered for less than three years, it might continue its ministry in private, which implies that any public buildings must be disused.

    Thirdly, on CNS, also in May, the SG spoke of religious liberty being “very, very limited”. HQ explains that the SG was speaking of “true religious liberty”, i.e. as the Church has always taught it, namely the right limited to the Catholic religion. However the SG’s original words on CNS are as clear as clear can be, and verifiable by anybody with the Internet: “The Council was presenting a religious liberty which was in fact a very, very limited one - very limited.” HQ may need here to provide a second explanation to prove that its first explanation was not, at best, a mistake?

    Fourthly, in Êcône in September, the SG admitted that he had been wrong in his dealings with Rome. HQ explains that the mistake was only on a “very precise and limited point”, namely whether the Pope would insist or not on the SSPX accepting the Council. However, this insistence on the Council (along with the New Mass) is the total bone of contention between the SSPX and Newrome. Is not this explanation of HQ like saying that the gash made by the iceberg in the side of the Titanic was a very precise and limited gash ?

    Fifthly, years ago the SG said that the Council texts are “95% acceptable”. HQ explains that he was speaking of the letter and not of the spirit of the texts. However, what mother will give to her children any part of a cake which she knows is 5% poisoned ? It is true that she could in theory give them any part of the 95% not poisoned, but in practice will she not be afraid of the poisoning spirit behind all parts of the cake ?

    In conclusion, had the SSPX’s crisis of this spring and summer made me wonder about the competence and honesty of the SG and his HQ, I fear that after this explanation of five quotes I would still be wondering. May God be with them, because they have a daunting responsibility.

    Kyrie eleison.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12713
    • Reputation: +22/-13
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #1 on: December 08, 2012, 12:20:43 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    Thirdly, on CNS, also in May, the SG spoke of religious liberty being “very, very limited”. HQ explains that the SG was speaking of “true religious liberty”, i.e. as the Church has always taught it, namely the right limited to the Catholic religion. However the SG’s original words on CNS are as clear as clear can be, and verifiable by anybody with the Internet: “The Council was presenting a religious liberty which was in fact a very, very limited one - very limited.” HQ may need here to provide a second explanation to prove that its first explanation was not, at best, a mistake?


    That is simply incredible.  I would like to read this explanation.


    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12713
    • Reputation: +22/-13
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #2 on: December 08, 2012, 12:25:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    Fifthly, years ago the SG said that the Council texts are “95% acceptable”. HQ explains that he was speaking of the letter and not of the spirit of the texts.


    So what the SSPX condemned in the Council was not of the Council, but only an interpretation of it?  Is that it?



    Offline stgobnait

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1346
    • Reputation: +941/-65
    • Gender: Female
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #3 on: December 08, 2012, 01:58:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  thats it exactly...... it seems....... :tinfoil:

    Offline AntiFellayism

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 233
    • Reputation: +799/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #4 on: December 08, 2012, 03:14:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Non Habemus Papam


    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8901
    • Reputation: +8675/-849
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 06:33:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: AntiFellayism



    I think Lincoln said something like this:

       You can fool all of the people some of the time.
       You can fool some of the people all of the time.
       But, you can't fool all of the people all of the time.


    Politicians can get away with bending the truth most of the time.
    Peer reviewed scientist can get away with dishonesty some of the time.
    Heirs to the Apostles (Catholic Bishops) shouldn't be dishonest... at any time.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Machabees

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 826
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 10:13:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Excellent once again.

    Thank you Bishop Williamson.


    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #7 on: December 09, 2012, 12:24:49 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Incredulous
    Quote from: AntiFellayism



    I think Lincoln said something like this:

       You can fool all of the people some of the time.
       You can fool some of the people all of the time.
       But, you can't fool all of the people all of the time.


    Politicians can get away with bending the truth most of the time.
    Peer reviewed scientist can get away with dishonesty some of the time.
    Heirs to the Apostles (Catholic Bishops) shouldn't be dishonest... at any time.



    Come on you two what's up??  I'm shocked that Incred has not already
    asked A-F to find a mysterious way to portray the image of the front cover of
    I Accuse the Council! with a blood-dripping red subscript that says,

                   "AND I DO NOT MEAN THE SPIRIT OF THE COUNCIL!!!"
                                                 (dammit!)
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline AntiFellayism

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 233
    • Reputation: +799/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #8 on: December 09, 2012, 01:37:40 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well, Neil.. I've seen a couple of images that is close to what you're saying:



    Non Habemus Papam

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #9 on: December 09, 2012, 02:16:59 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote
    Fifthly, years ago the SG said that the Council texts are “95% acceptable”. HQ explains that he was speaking of the letter and not of the spirit of the texts.


    So what the SSPX condemned in the Council was not of the Council, but only an interpretation of it?  Is that it?





    Once again, you've got to consider what is NOT being written.

    If the SG was speaking about the letter as being 95% acceptable, AND,

    the SG (according to HQ) was NOT referring to the spirit, THEN,  

    what would be the acceptability percentage of the spirit of the council?  




    (Jeopardy theme playing here:  duh-duh-duh-duh .. duh-duh-duh...  
    duh-duh-duh-duh-DUH! .. da-da-da-da-da/ duh-duh-duh-duh ..
    duh-duh-duh .... DUH .. DA-DA . duh . duh ... duh .... duh.)




    And the answer is  -->  100%! ..........  I.e., the spirit is entirely reliable.  
    Process: many moons ago, the SG made this statement, 95%, which at
    the time served its purpose.  But now, it has become an inconvenience!
    Why, see this Eleison Comments rag keeps coming out with higher
    mathematics, DARING to subtract the 95 from 100 and getting 5%
    poison --- POISON, OF ALL THINGS!  Well, we just can't have mothers
    thinking about poison in any part of their children's cake.  GRRRRRR!
    You would think that a good-ol' excusion, a (how do you say?)
    exclusio! -- would have been sufficient to put a lid on that, but
    NOOOOOOOOOOO!  Now he's out with another one, and it's the
    same ol'  -  same ol' -- same cake, same poison, same 5%.  Now what?
    While HQ would prefer to be able to erase the fact of history that this
    had ever taken place, it cannot, because you and I and ten thousand
    witnesses remember that he said 95% at that time, and the effects of
    that statement were what they were, in objective reality (HQ hates
    objective reality! It's - so, well, inconvenient.)  SINCE the end can
    sometimes justify the means, not in general, of course, but when you're
    really, really in a pinch (and this is a real pinch!), AND we absolutely
    need to find some way of "redefining" the whole point of that 95%
    figure having been hung out like dirty laundry for the whole world to
    see, MAYBE we could now claim that it was 95% of something ELSE,
    something OTHER than that of which the whole world thought it
    was 95%.  Let's say, "Not of the letter but of the spirit!"  Yeah! That's
    the ticket!  The 95% figure was referring to the letter and we're all a lot
    smarter than that, because we've got THE SPIRIT, man!  And the spirit
    of Vatican II is entirely reliable!  Why?  Because we SAY it is!  Bottom
    line:  That Was Then And This Is Now.  No more 95%.  Now it's "go for
    broke."  Now it's 100%  -- all the chips on one square.  Okay, turn that
    Roulette wheel.  (Good thing it's not Russian!)





    (UUUhhhh.... wait: the unclean spirit of Vatican II is reliably what? Unclean??)




    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #10 on: December 09, 2012, 02:34:44 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: AntiFellayism
    Well, Neil.. I've seen a couple of images that is close to what you're saying:



    You don't disappoint me, again, AntiFellayism!  

    I'm thinking I would say "MISITNERPRETATIONS OF" for the second one --

    know what I mean?  But NEVER would it say "the spirit of the Council"  
    because the spirit is the sacred cow.  And in India they drink the urine of
    the sacred cows.  And it would be unecuмenical to accuse the sacred cow.

    Is that enough to make your skin crawl, eh? EH??  EH!???





    Now, what would really thrill me is to see "the unclean spirit of"  in red!










    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Machabees

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 826
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #11 on: December 09, 2012, 05:33:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It really seems that Menzingen is in big time DAMAGE CONTROL, and shows the issue is still hot internally -to send out to all of their priests and superiors an "official backtrack explanation" letter- this is what I meant, well, would like you to believe.

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8901
    • Reputation: +8675/-849
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #12 on: December 10, 2012, 03:46:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: AntiFellayism
    Well, Neil.. I've seen a couple of images that is close to what you're saying:






    This is so appropriate.

    " I excuse the Council"

    Most excellent AF !
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8901
    • Reputation: +8675/-849
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXXII (282)
    « Reply #13 on: December 10, 2012, 04:12:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: AntiFellayism
    Well, Neil.. I've seen a couple of images that is close to what you're saying:



    You don't disappoint me, again, AntiFellayism!  

    I'm thinking I would say "MISITNERPRETATIONS OF" for the second one --

    know what I mean?  But NEVER would it say "the spirit of the Council"  
    because the spirit is the sacred cow.  And in India they drink the urine of
    the sacred cows.  And it would be unecuмenical to accuse the sacred cow.

    Is that enough to make your skin crawl, eh? EH??  EH!???





    Now, what would really thrill me is to see "the unclean spirit of"  in red!

    Neil,

    You should collaborate with AF in his early "creative phase".
    He's a very flexible artist to work with.











    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi