Author Topic: Eleison Comments - Number CCLXIV (264) (Read 2947 times)

Neil Obstat · « **on:** August 06, 2012, 12:25:22 PM »

Number CCLXIV (264)

4 August 2012
A CHAPTER

As many of you know, a certain bishop was excluded from the General Chapter, or meeting of heads of the Society of St Pius X, held last month in Econe, Switzerland. To confirm the exclusion, use was apparently made of the adaptation by “Eleison Comments” (#257, June 16) of St Paul’s seemingly murderous wish that the corruptors of the Catholic Faith be “cut off” (Galatians V, 12). Actually Ambrose, Jerome, Augustine and Chrysostom all think that the wish, in context (Gal.V, 1-12), is aimed at the Judaisers’ manhood rather than at their very lives, and Chrysostom thinks it is a jest.

However, when I heard what serious use was being made of the jest at the Chapter, I must admit that I had a naughty vision: I imagined my noble colleagues in SSPX headquarters looking out of the windows at night to see if there might not be a lanky episcopal Englishman, heavily disguised as Jack the Ripper, prowling around in the bushes with a long carving-knife gleaming in the moonlight, seeking someone to carve to pieces. Dear colleagues, sleep easy - I have no murderous ambitions. Honestly !

But the Chapter was serious business. What did it produce ? Above all, a Declaration, made public a few days later, and six conditions for any future Rome-SSPX agreement, leaked on the Internet soon after that (given how many souls are presently entrusting their faith and their salvation to the guidance of the SSPX, I find such a leak not unreasonable). Now all honour to the good men at the Chapter who by all accounts did their best to limit the damage, but if the Declaration and conditions give us the present mind of the Society’s leaders as a whole, then there has to be cause for concern.

As for the Declaration of 2012, it is enough to compare it for a few moments with Archbishop Lefebvre’s Declaration of 1974, to wonder what has happened to his Society. Whereas the Archbishop explicitly and repeatedly denounces the reformation wrought by Vatican II (“born of Liberalism and Modernism, poisoned through and through, deriving from heresy and ending in heresy”), in words that brought down upon him the wrath of the Conciliar Popes, on the contrary the Declaration of 2012 refers only once to the Council with its “novelties” merely “stained with errors”, in terms that one can easily imagine Benedict XVI underwriting from beginning to end. Does the SSPX now think that the Conciliar Popes represent no serious problem ?

As for the six conditions for any future Rome-SSPX agreement, they deserve a detailed examination, but suffice it to say here and now that the demand made by the SSPX’s 2006 General Chapter for a doctrinal agreement prior to any practical agreement seems to have gone completely by the board. Is it now the mind of the SSPX that the doctrine of the Romans to whom they would submit is no longer so important ? Or is the SSPX itself succuмbing to the charms of Liberalism ?

For a contrarian point of view, may I venture to recommend a collection of “Sermons and Doctrinal Conferences” of His Excellency Jack the Ripper from between 1994 and 2009, now available on seven CD’s from http://truerestorationpress.com/node/52, with special incentives to purchase expiring at the end of this month ? Not every word in these 30 hours of recordings may be golden, some words are no doubt too temperamental, but at least the effort is made to disembowel the enemies and not the friends of our Catholic Faith.

Kyrie eleison.

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H.E. is going to catch some heat for this one: "His Excellency Jack the Ripper," but not from ME!! HAHAHAHAHA

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2012, 12:42:58 PM »

IMHO Stephen Heiner could offer as another "incentive" for his MP3 collection,
a cartoon of H.E. Jack the Ripper!

Someone gave H.E. a cartoon of a dinosaur with the head of +Williamson, running, with an attache case, toward Argentina, and it was fairly well received. That's when H.E. started calling his weekly letters "Dinoscopus."

Quote

For a contrarian point of view, may I venture to recommend a collection of “Sermons and Doctrinal Conferences” of His Excellency Jack the Ripper from between 1994 and 2009, now available on seven CD’s from http://truerestorationpress.com/node/52 , with special incentives to purchase expiring at the end of this month ? Not every word in these 30 hours of recordings may be golden, some words are no doubt too temperamental, but at least the effort is made to disembowel the enemies and not the friends of our Catholic Faith.

s2srea · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2012, 01:13:57 PM »

Herein lies the key to the current SSPX crisis:

Quote

As for the six conditions for any future Rome-SSPX agreement, they deserve a detailed examination, but suffice it to say here and now that the demand made by the SSPX’s 2006 General Chapter for a doctrinal agreement prior to any practical agreement seems to have gone completely by the board. Is it now the mind of the SSPX that the doctrine of the Romans to whom they would submit is no longer so important ? Or is the SSPX itself succuмbing to the charms of Liberalism ?

s2srea · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2012, 01:16:23 PM »

I still think $250 is still way too much money for this mp3 set. I understand the need for profit and payment for hard work done, but lets be realistic too. This is going to be out of the hands of most trads.

Ethelred · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2012, 01:24:24 PM »

What a wonderful keen and nonetheless (British) humorous Eleison Comment!

Thank you so much, your Excellency Bishop Williamson for your spiritually vital apostolate. And also thanks to your helpers (including those who post it here and elsewhere).
Indeed our dear Lord doesn't leave alone those who want to be with Him, by granting us such an excellent shepherd who leads us and protects us against the increasing number of wolves.

God bless Bishop Williamson!

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2012, 01:39:15 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

I still think $250 is still way too much money for this mp3 set. I understand the need for profit and payment for hard work done, but lets be realistic too. This is going to be out of the hands of most trads.

How about $38?

Is that too much? Heiner already said he's considering making them
available as individual discs. So 7 trads could get together and each order one disc,
then when they listen to it, they can exchange it for another from one of the others
in their group? That would cost more for shipping.

Or, all 7 could alternatively get together, and order one set, then provide for a
sharing system like a lending library? Another advantage of that is, you would get
all the great perks of the preorder set, equivalent to the whole price!

In either case, you can't listen to more than one of these things at a time. Each one
contains 6 hours of recordings. And you might want to hear the whole thing twice
before you go on to the next disc.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2012, 01:46:36 PM »

Just by talking about this I'm convincing myself I should pre-order it.

I wonder if there are going to be any customers who can't afford to buy food, but
spend every last penny on pre-ordering a set of these recordings? Or, someone
who has lost his shelter, and is camping in a tent, but plays his MP3s every day?
And when someone asks him, he says, "You have to choose your priorities."

John Grace · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2012, 02:19:54 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: s2srea
I still think $250 is still way too much money for this mp3 set. I understand the need for profit and payment for hard work done, but lets be realistic too. This is going to be out of the hands of most trads.

How about $38?

Is that too much? Heiner already said he's considering making them
available as individual discs. So 7 trads could get together and each order one disc,
then when they listen to it, they can exchange it for another from one of the others
in their group? That would cost more for shipping.

Or, all 7 could alternatively get together, and order one set, then provide for a
sharing system like a lending library? Another advantage of that is, you would get
all the great perks of the preorder set, equivalent to the whole price!

In either case, you can't listen to more than one of these things at a time. Each one
contains 6 hours of recordings. And you might want to hear the whole thing twice
before you go on to the next disc.

Trads coming together and the lending library is an excellent idea.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2012, 10:23:33 PM »

I was thinking about this a few days ago. For a lending library, you'd have to have six local friends and it would cost about $37 each after shipping. That's not bad, and I for one might be asking around to see if anyone near me is interested.

On the other hand, if you only have six (domestic) internet friends, you'd need $39 each to get your first CD. After that, at agreed upon time frames, you'd swap CDs which would cost each of you less than $2 in shipping (plus a padded envelope--reused when possible--and possibly a trip to the post office). Each person would retain ownership of the last CD they receive of the seven.

So, for ~$52, you'd get to listen to them all and own one. Anyone think that's worthwhile?

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2012, 05:01:18 PM »

If only SSPX parishes could offer sign-up sheets for groups of 7! When a list has
7 names, addresses and phone numbers, then those people could pay their $38
and a designated secretary could send in the order. The group of 7 would have
to decide who will get the registration for the "perks," because that has to be to
one person, as I understand it. Perhaps the one person who gets the perks can
agree to contribute more, let's say, $100, then the others would only have to pay
$25 each.

Alternatively, two could agree to pay $75 each, and split the perks in an equitable
way, leaving one with the registration privilege and any other ID oriented
promotional items, and the other one would get the things that come without any
identification associated. Then the other 5 people would only have to chip in $20
each. But everyone would get to hear all the recordings; just listen to one CD
for about 3 weeks (12 hours per week or 2 hours per day with a day off), and
then turn it in for the next one. If after 3 weeks, one guy doesn't show up with
his CD in hand, then the other 6 can trade CDs and the missing guy will have to
wait another 3 weeks to get the next recording.

What to do if one CD gets damaged or lost? That's why you have one person as
the registered owner, so he can request a replacement. Someone's probably going
to have to come up with $40 though, maybe that would be they guy who lost it.

What to do if someone disappears or dies and the CD is not found? Same problem
as above, but perhaps some agreement can be signed and made negotiable, such
that the estate of the deceased can pay for the replacement? Maybe that's too
much to ask.

But there's a lot of ways you could arrange this, without having to order individual
CDs. Remember, if you get the whole set with one registration, then you also get
all the freebies attached, which can be shared as well, but they have to go to the
same person. True Restoration Press isn't going to accommodate multiple
registrants. They are not looking for a bookkeeping nightmare.

In any event, the SSPX parishes aren't going to be interested in this, because they
are probably going to have loyalty leanings toward the Fellayites, who are going to
make organizing groups like this pretty miserable business. There would be some
kind of consequence, I'm sure. But hey, why not try it and see? Start a group at
your local parish, and order the CD set, and after it arrives, come and explain
your GOOD NEWS to the pastor! All the members and their families should be on
hand to observe his reaction. This would be a hoot. You would then be able to
remove all doubts whether he's a mere Fellayite, or a pastor with his head
screwed on straight. Caution: do not allow a wishy-washy person to hold the CD
set in front of the pastor. He might pretend to be interested, just long enough to
take the set and hand it over to some lackey who would suddenly disappear with
it, while everyone is distracted. Don't put it past them. I would recommend, to
have a wishy-washy person stand there with A DUMMY PACKAGE that looks like
the CD set, but is not, and see what happens. This could also be instructive. You
could put a note inside the dummy package asking whoever opens it to please
call this phone number, which can be your cell phone #, and when you get this
phone call, you can then let them know the next thing they have to do, etc.

Now, perhaps independent chapels would be interested. I heard of an independent
chapel that put together a library of Chant CDs for their High Masses. Every week,
the appropriate recording could be played at rehearsal so the men could be sure
they are singing the Chant correctly for that Sunday. In this case, though, the
home place for the CDs would be the independent Chapel book store or library,
and when someone is done with a CD, he just turns it in, and if there is another
available, he picks that one up. If not, then he'll have to put his name on a list
for "waiting," and then the name on the top of the list is the one who gets the
next CD to come in returned from one of the other members. This could work on
the honor system, just using the list. When someone returns a CD, he fills in the
box on the list to that effect, putting the date and time down, and the CD number.
When he picks up a CD, he writes down the facts on the list. Simple.

claudel · « **Reply #10 on:** August 08, 2012, 07:50:25 AM »

I paid a bit over a hundred dollars for Karajan's recording of Wagner's Ring des Nibelungen, which contains about fourteen hours of music. Bishop Williamson's words—also music to my ears—on Mr. Heiner's CDs come to almost thrice the time for rather less than thrice the price. Need I add that Heiner doesn't have Deutsche Grammophon's infrastructure nor its economies of scale nor its master tapes sitting on a shelf in a warehouse?

Unfortunately, because serious ill health has cut my working life short by a full decade or more, I too cannot afford the $250 for the Williamson CDs. But complaints about their cost, given that the cost is clearly reflective of the CDs' development and production costs, are certainly tiresome and border on the outright un-Christian.

Must even Catholic Traditionalists be reminded that life is unfair?

claudel · « **Reply #11 on:** August 08, 2012, 10:15:13 AM »

Quote

Must even Catholic Traditionalists be reminded that life is unfair?

If I didn't hate emoticons so much, I'd have placed one after the quoted sentence to make my jocular meaning clear.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #12 on:** August 08, 2012, 01:44:07 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

So, for ~$52, you'd get to listen to them all and own one. Anyone think that's worthwhile?

This wasn't a rhetorical question, btw. I should have said, "anyone besides me think this is a good deal?" I do think it's worthwhile, unfortunately, I'm not sure I could commit even the $50 to such a purchase right now, so I was just throwing the math out there for everyone else.

Belloc · « **Reply #13 on:** August 08, 2012, 01:49:35 PM »

Quote from: claudel

Must even Catholic Traditionalists be reminded that life is unfair?

now, hy did ya have to go and :pop: my bubble

got to get back to sleep (think, nothing has change since 1962, there is a continuity, spring has sprung..... :reading: )

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #14 on:** August 09, 2012, 10:28:02 PM »

Quote from: Ethelred

What a wonderful keen and nonetheless (British) humorous Eleison Comment!

Thank you so much, your Excellency Bishop Williamson for your spiritually vital apostolate. And also thanks to your helpers (including those who post it here and elsewhere).
Indeed our dear Lord doesn't leave alone those who want to be with Him, by granting us such an excellent shepherd who leads us and protects us against the increasing number of wolves.

God bless Bishop Williamson!

and may God Bless and Protect you, Ethelred!