Author Topic: Eleison Comments - Message From Heaven? (no. 845) (Read 906 times)

Matthew · « **on:** September 23, 2023, 09:58:20 AM »

DCCCXLV #845

September 23, 2023

MESSAGE from HEAVEN ?

Clearly, Our Lord is watching over His Church.
By no means is He leaving it in the lurch.
Ever since Vatican II (1962–1965) when the highest Authority in the Catholic Church, its worldwide bishops assembled in an Ecuмenical Council under Popes John XXIII and Paul VI, broke with Catholic Tradition and with Catholic Truth by imposing on the Universal Church a new humanistic version of Catholicism, supposedly “updated” to suit modern times, Catholics striving to remain faithful to Our Lord have had to be more or less schizophrenic. Either they clung to Catholic Authority and let go of the Truth at least partly; or they clung to Catholic Truth and “disobeyed” their authorities at least partly; or they chose any one of a variety of uneasy combinations in between.
In 1970 Archbishop Lefebvre founded in Switzerland a priestly Seminary and Congregation to produce a new generation of priests to protect the Church from the consequences of Vatican II which, as he foresaw, placed the very survival of the Church in peril. The Church authorities in Rome, still set upon the Council, bided their time before reacting, but when they saw that the Seminary in Econe was thriving and not about to disappear, they then began to use all the considerable means at their disposal to shut down Econe. The Archbishop would not give way, so there followed 13 years of conflict between Rome and Econe, because he refused to defy Roman Authority by going on his own outside of the normal Church structures. As for official Rome, it could neither swallow him down, because accepting Tradition would doom their false religion, nor could it spit him out, because condemning Tradition risked unmasking their false novelties.
And so the Archbishop presided over the expanding success of his Society while doing everything he could to avoid breaking the normal rules, while Rome watched and waited for the moment when it would at last be able to get away with smashing his work to pieces. That moment came when the Archbishop, approaching death, knew that he would have to consecrate bishops of his own to ensure the survival of his Society after his death, because all bishops “obedient” to Rome, which meant in practice all other bishops in the world, could not be relied on to stand up to the Conciliar authorities. And so in June of 1988 he proceeded to consecrate four of his own priests as bishops. And this was the quasi-consecration of the whole “Traditional movement” inside the Church, of Catholics by now numerous all over the world who understood that while authorities should be respected as far as possible, still Truth had to come first.
Now in November of last year, came allegedly from Heaven, a message from a Sister to a Traditional priest in France who was anxious about following Catholic Truth against the appearance of Catholic Authority. The message, heavenly or not, presents an admirable description of respecting Authority while protecting the Truth, but let readers of these “Comments” judge for themselves, and act accordingly –
The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is presently passing through a deep and hurtful crisis in its representatives, and you, Father, are one of its victims. Mgr. Thuc understood the breakdown inside the Church, and as bishop he took a personal stand which was not according to the rules, because he ordained priests and bishops without incardination, thus putting them all in an irregular situation, even if they are fervent and wish to exercise a ministry in accordance with the teaching of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Mgr Williamson, having been put in a similar situation by his dismissal from the Society of St Pius X by its Superior at that time without valid reason, should be able to understand your situation because he too has consecrated bishops and ordained priests. Like yourself, for now, these are also lacking incardination. The present situation within the Holy Catholic Church is so bad that the Lord is happy with all His ministers working faithfully for Him, with or without incardination.
This is the Lord’s answer to your question. As soon as Holy Church has recovered within itself the strength of the Truth, priests still adrift will be able to rejoin it officially, while unofficially never having left it. The Lord blesses you, be at peace, and be faithful.
Kyrie eleison

Ladislaus · « **Reply #1 on:** September 23, 2023, 10:36:08 AM »

As always, I am skeptical of such "private revelation," and the diction here just sounds a bit off. Interesting that +Thuc and +Williamson are put in the same category, but to the exclusion of SSPX? Who's allegedly "speaking" here? If Our Lord or Our Lady, that raises additional concerns regarding the speaking style and diction.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #2 on:** September 23, 2023, 10:43:54 AM »

Quote from: Matthew on September 23, 2023, 09:58:20 AM

The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is presently passing through a deep and hurtful crisis in its representatives, and you, Father, are one of its victims. Mgr. Thuc understood the breakdown inside the Church, and as bishop he took a personal stand which was not according to the rules, because he ordained priests and bishops without incardination, thus putting them all in an irregular situation, even if they are fervent and wish to exercise a ministry in accordance with the teaching of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Mgr Williamson, having been put in a similar situation by his dismissal from the Society of St Pius X by its Superior at that time without valid reason, should be able to understand your situation because he too has consecrated bishops and ordained priests. Like yourself, for now, these are also lacking incardination. The present situation within the Holy Catholic Church is so bad that the Lord is happy with all His ministers working faithfully for Him, with or without incardination.
This is the Lord’s answer to your question. As soon as Holy Church has recovered within itself the strength of the Truth, priests still adrift will be able to rejoin it officially, while unofficially never having left it. The Lord blesses you, be at peace, and be faithful.

I've bolded some of the parts where I find the diction or the thinking a bit problematic. Finally, that one statement is seriously problematic theologically where "Holy Church has recovered within itself the strength of the Truth". WITHIN ITSELF, Holy Church has lost nothing that needs to be recovered. Even Bishop Williamson differentiates between "Holy Church" and the churchmen. It's a step away from the notion that the Church may have lost its unity, as condemned in Mortalium Animos. Church per se cannot lose its essential characteristics. Just seems like a lot of circuмlocution, babble, excessive colloquialisms, use of terms like "officially" vs. "unofficially", etc.

Seraphina · « **Reply #3 on:** September 23, 2023, 03:08:55 PM »

While I greatly respect, admire, and am eternally grateful to +Bp. Williamson for his exercise of Christ’s Authority, his example of holiness, and his instrumental role in my own conversion, this most recent EC highlights one of H.E.’s weak points at a time when both priests and laity look to their Bishops for guidance, leadership, and strength.
Reliance on unnamed female visionaries and seers is both unbecoming and entirely unnecessary. His Excellency has a firm grasp on theology, dogma, Church history, and moral theology. His teaching is solidly Thomist, presented in accord with time-tested educational techniques, the effectiveness of which is evidenced by the ordinations of many, many fine priests.
The FSSPX erred gravely in their unjust and politically motivated “cancellation” of Bp. Williamson. His Excellency’s resultant action in passing down the Apostolic torch to a handful of priests by consecration to the episcopacy needs no justification other than that modeled by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.
As for the reference to +Bp. Thuc, his mention adds nothing of merit to +Bp. Williamson’s curriculum vitae. God has already rewarded +Bp. Thuc for the graces he has bestowed upon the Church without comparison and will no doubt judge +Bp. Williamson with the same impartiality, justice, and mercy.
His Excellency requests the readers of his Comments “read for themselves and judge accordingly.” As per his request, I refer him to Church law pertaining to visions, locutions, and the like, neither approved nor condemned by the Church.
The vision of the French Sister to a priest is interesting. No doubt it is most interesting to the one to whom it refers! That being said, +Bp. Williamson ought receive it thoughtfully, contemplate its possible directive to him before Our Lord, then figuratively speaking, box it up and place it on the top shelf of the dining room closet. If, at some future moment, it is required, Our Lady, like a Good Mother, will remind him of its location and bid him take it down. Let it not distract him from the centerpiece of Our Lord’s banquet table, the Altar and the Cross.
Now, dear +Bishop Williamson, may Our Lord bless you. Be at peace and continue in Faith!
Kyrie eleison!

dxcat40 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 23, 2023, 03:13:26 PM »

Quote

The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is presently passing through a deep and hurtful crisis in its representatives, and you, Father, are one of its victims. Mgr. Thuc understood the breakdown inside the Church, and as bishop he took a personal stand which was not according to the rules, because he ordained priests and bishops without incardination, thus putting them all in an irregular situation, even if they are fervent and wish to exercise a ministry in accordance with the teaching of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Mgr Williamson, having been put in a similar situation by his dismissal from the Society of St Pius X by its Superior at that time without valid reason, should be able to understand your situation because he too has consecrated bishops and ordained priests. Like yourself, for now, these are also lacking incardination. The present situation within the Holy Catholic Church is so bad that the Lord is happy with all His ministers working faithfully for Him, with or without incardination.

This is the Lord’s answer to your question. As soon as Holy Church has recovered within itself the strength of the Truth, priests still adrift will be able to rejoin it officially, while unofficially never having left it. The Lord blesses you, be at peace, and be faithful.

Anyone got a source? Can't say I remember this from last year if it came up.

Seraphina · « **Reply #5 on:** September 23, 2023, 06:58:03 PM »

Quote from: dxcat40 on September 23, 2023, 03:13:26 PM

Anyone got a source? Can't say I remember this from last year if it came up.

Sorry! No idea. Does Fr. Chazal have a sister? That’s the only French priest with whom I’ve had any significant dealings.

Author Topic: Eleison Comments - Message From Heaven? (no. 845) (Read 906 times)

Matthew

Eleison Comments - Message From Heaven? (no. 845)

Ladislaus

Re: Eleison Comments - Message From Heaven? (no. 845)

Ladislaus

Re: Eleison Comments - Message From Heaven? (no. 845)

Seraphina

Re: Eleison Comments - Message From Heaven? (no. 845)

dxcat40

Re: Eleison Comments - Message From Heaven? (no. 845)

Seraphina

Re: Eleison Comments - Message From Heaven? (no. 845)