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Author Topic: Eleison Comments - Macchabees? Where? (no. 602)  (Read 932 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Eleison Comments - Macchabees? Where? (no. 602)
« on: January 26, 2019, 09:33:32 PM »
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  • Number DCII (602)
    January 26, 2019
    Macchabees? Where?
    ”Where are the heroic Macchabees today?,”
    Cried the Archbishop. Answer: gone out to play.

    What does the reunification of the Society of St Pius X with Rome mean to the great mass of the world’s inhabitants, even to the large number of its Catholics? The answer must be, very little. Similarly when passengers on the Titanic saw a team of engineers going below decks to investigate something or other, they may not have shown much interest, but as soon as they came to learn that their great ship was doomed, their interest must have grown much keener. The Catholic Church hit the iceberg of Vatican II over 50 years ago. A great engineer of the Church warned the Church’s captain of what had happened, and what would be the result, and he showed how to stop the Church from sinking. Alas, Archbishop Lefebvre was not heeded by the captains then or since, and his discouraged successors prefer today to listen to the misguided captains, who are, if the Society no longer shows the true way out, to be pitied.
    Let us recall the last six years of the process of reunification, and assess where it is at today.

    The decisive step in that process was the Society’s General Chapter of 2012, where it renounced the Archbishop’s fundamental principle that without a doctrinal agreement between the Society and Rome, no merely practical agreement could serve the Church. This is because a Catholic is a Catholic firstly by his subjective virtue of faith submitting his mind and will to the objective creed of the Church’s Faith. What the error of subjectivism does is to render the objective Faith subjective, so that I become free to believe, and consequently to behave, how I like. Like believing 2 and 2 are 4, OR 5 OR 6 OR 6,000,000. This unfaith of Vatican II the Society essentially adopted in 2012, yet Society leaders immediately began reassuring their priests and laity that nothing essential had changed in the Society. BUT –

    In 2013 began a series of publicly admitted meetings in Rome with the Roman authorities, to prepare a step-by-step process of full recognition. This process duly followed:—

    In 2014, There were visits of Roman dignitaries to SSPX seminaries, and there was the temporary Jubilee “concession” of official jurisdiction for SSPX Confessions.

    In 2015, the “concession” on Confessions and Extreme-Unction was made permanent.

    In 2016, priestly ordinations in the SSPX were no longer to be punished by suspension “a divinis.”

    In 2017, Society Marriages were rendered “licit” by the participation of a Newchurch priest as witness.

    In 2018, the SSPX General Chapter elected for their General Council three men who are no tigers of the Faith, and created two new positions alongside them (General Councillors) to enable Bishop Fellay and Fr. Schmidberger to retain their power as the two leading tigers of reunification.

    And in 2019? – Rome has just re-absorbed the Com mission Ecclesia Dei (ED) into the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), from which it was hived off in 1988 to draw back to Rome Catholics tempted by the Society’s episcopal consecrations to follow the Archbishop instead of Rome. As such, ED was meant to be relatively kind to Traditionalists. But Pope Francis has no time for Tradition. Therefore since the Newsociety now agrees with Rome that there is no longer the clash with Rome that there was in 1988, he has put an end to ED. But ED was kind to Tradition, whereas the CDF are tigers of the Newchurch. Like Little Red Riding Hood, the Newsociety is throwing itself into the jaws of Rome – “Oh, sweet Big Bad Rome, what lovely teeth you have!” “All the better to eat you up with, you silly child!”

    And the Society? Just as it will be happy if Rome dissolves ED because the CFD will then treat it as belonging fully to the Church, so it risks being happy if Rome were to attach to the Society two relatively decent Newbishops to look after its need of Ordinations and Confirmations, but from outside the Society and always under Rome’s own control. On Rome’s part it would be a clever move, closing the trap even tighter on what remains of the Archbishop’s Society. And how many Newsociety priests will even see that here is “a sea of troubles,” let alone “take arms, to end them” (Hamlet)? Not many, one may fear.
    Kyrie eleison.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Macchabees? Where? (no. 602)
    « Reply #1 on: January 27, 2019, 11:51:50 PM »
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  • SSPX Revisionist history (2019)


    "Actually, the Maccabean resistance was very disruptive and the outcome questionable.
    The Maccabees should have attempted to negotiate some type of prelature agreement with Antiochus before raising arms against the Seleucid Empire.  Besides, burning a little incense and eating bacon for the Greek gods would have provided many temporal rewards and they'd have been inside, in better position to ultimately convert Antiochus and his nation. 
    Just think of all the lives that would have been saved?"

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Macchabees? Where? (no. 602)
    « Reply #2 on: January 28, 2019, 02:28:06 PM »
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  • SSPX Revisionist history (2019)


    "Actually, the Maccabean resistance was very disruptive and the outcome questionable.
    The Maccabees should have attempted to negotiate some type of prelature agreement with Antiochus before raising arms against the Seleucid Empire.  Besides, burning a little incense and eating bacon for the Greek gods would have provided many temporal rewards and they'd have been inside, in better position to ultimately convert Antiochus and his nation.  
    Just think of all the lives that would have been saved?"



    Most excellent Incredulous. Sobering but very funny too. Pretty soon we might see new insights into the Gospels.


    "Our Lord should not have really chased out the money lenders from the Temple. Rather he should have created an ecuмenical forum with the Pharisees and Sadducees to open up dialogue with the money lenders, er...financial exchange operators, to achieve a harmonious balance where everyone will be nice to each other and we can get special funding rights because Mercedes Benz dont come cheap."
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline ggreg

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Macchabees? Where? (no. 602)
    « Reply #3 on: January 29, 2019, 10:40:35 PM »
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  • What happens if the resistances get to 2025 or 2032 and there is still no deal with Rome by the SSPX and even less of a prospect of a deal because Rome has women priests or some such other abomination?

    Is there a moment in time, or set of circuмstances, where you reason that the SSPX, while flawed, is essentially the best bet and the various different resistances are not going to pan out and self-sustain?

    I put the same question to a sede-vacantist recently who told me it would not matter to him if Rome had no Pope for 1000 years.

    It certainly would matter to me.  1000 years is so long without a Pope that it makes you wonder why a Pope is necessary at all.

    It all reminds me of a funny story called "The Adventures of Ralph Melish"




    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Macchabees? Where? (no. 602)
    « Reply #4 on: January 29, 2019, 11:43:32 PM »
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  • What happens if the resistances get to 2025 or 2032 and there is still no deal with Rome by the SSPX and even less of a prospect of a deal because Rome has women priests or some such other abomination?

    Is there a moment in time, or set of circuмstances, where you reason that the SSPX, while flawed, is essentially the best bet and the various different resistances are not going to pan out and self-sustain?

    I put the same question to a sede-vacantist recently who told me it would not matter to him if Rome had no Pope for 1000 years.

    It certainly would matter to me.  1000 years is so long without a Pope that it makes you wonder why a Pope is necessary at all.

    It all reminds me of a funny story called "The Adventures of Ralph Melish"
    Speaking as a sede I can admit that the length of the sede vacante is a serious concern.  You can compare it to the Holy Roman Empire.  If the emperor is deposed how long can the empire exist without a head?  If it was just a few years no one would think that a new institution had been founded.  But what if it was a few decades?  I remember John Lane saying that most theologians would put the limit at the lifetime of a man. 70 or 80 years.  I’m not sure if that is correct but I think there is a limit after which the pure sv position would no longer be tenable.  But the sede privation theory wouldn’t have that problem because there is still a material occupant of the see which would preserve the institution.  I still think the pure sv position is the best explanation of the crisis.  The next best for now would be the sp position.  The r&r position is terrible.  The pope has to convert to Catholicism?  Come on!


    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Macchabees? Where? (no. 602)
    « Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 05:33:14 PM »
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  • Quote
    What happens if the resistances get to 2025 or 2032 and there is still no deal with Rome by the SSPX and even less of a prospect of a deal

    What makes anyone think that a deal, or some kind of practical (secret) arrangement, has not already been made with Rome?  I mean, why should sspx jeopardize the loss of many of its members in the face of a publicly acknowledged deal?  Much better just to go on as if negotiations were still taking place, while, in fact the deal may have been sealed already behind closed doors.  Menzingen is all about money anyway.  A secret ageement would certainly prevent an income drain.  SSPX has already submitted to Rome on a number of fronts.  Just keep the charade going to everyone's satisfaction.