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Author Topic: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)  (Read 2117 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
« on: August 11, 2018, 08:55:21 AM »
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    • Number DLXXVIII (578)
    August 11, 2018
    General Chapter – III
    Church, or Society, God could bring to port,
    But not if men His goodness bring to nought.

    When Catholic Truth and Catholic Authority move apart, as at Vatican II, it cannot be the Truth that is moving, because Catholic doctrine does not change. It can only be the Authority that has moved, and therefore the Church authorities can alone be to blame for the separation. All the more reason to treasure those authorities that did not betray the Truth, such as Archbishop Lefebvre and his Society of St Pius X. All the more reason to take at least one more look at what happened to it at its recent General Chapter – did the Society in fact get back on the Archbishop’s track which it left in 2012, or did the French proverb apply, “the more things change, the more they stay the same”?
    At the beginning of the Chapter three new men were elected to form the triumvirate (body of three men) ruling the Society, and many a good priest in the Society breathed a great sigh of relief and enjoyed a few days of real hope for the future. But then at the end of the Chapter there were voted onto the Society’s General Council, where major decisions are taken, the previous Superior General together with his own predecessor as Superior General. This was by the creation of a novelty in the Society, a new post of “Counsellor.” And many a good priest’s heart must have sunk in his breast. What hope could there be now for a change of the Society’s disastrous course from faithful Truth to faithless authorities when that course’s two main architects were reinstated on the Society’s General Council?
    At least one participant in the Chapter was reassured that the two “Counsellors” will not be living in Society headquarters in Menzingen, Switzerland; that they will only be advising on questions of setting up or closing Society houses and admitting or expelling Society members; that creating the “Counsellors” was a clever move of the Chapter because it will help to heal divisions in the Society. Does anyone feel re-assured? Menzingen must win back the trust which its ambiguous politics for 20 years have lost. Here is one commentator among many who does not trust such recent soothing words of the Society’s rulers:—
    In reality the choice – fixed beforehand – of Fr Pagliarani for the new Superior General disguises the policy likewise fixed beforehand of confirming the status quo, as to the future direction of the Society. Shamelessly there were placed at the side of the New Superior two more Assistants, hardly outstanding for their resistance to modernist Rome. Moreover the Chapter had the nerve to invent the function of two “Counsellors,” unheard of in the Society’s Statutes, and to “choose” for the job the two characters most in favour of an agreement with Rome that the Society has ever had: Fr. Schmidberger, known for his friendship with Cardinal Ratzinger, and Bishop Fellay, known for his “new friends” in Rome and for his dedication to liquidating the Society, to be handed over bound hand and foot to the Roman apostates.
    The picture that emerges is not necessarily one of unconditional surrender, but we catch a glimpse of a new way of getting closer to Rome, with a little more caution and a little more diplomacy towards the priests and laity of the Society. However, given that God both sees and foresees, and that while man proposes, it is God who disposes, then another possibility is that Our Lord intervenes and infuses in the relatively young Fr Pagliarani the Gifts of Counsel, Fortitude and Fear of God which he will need to straighten out the course of the Society lifeboat, and bring it safely to port. May that be God’s will!
    In fairness, the Chapter did succeed in changing the Superior General, which was the most important thing that it had to do. Bishop Fellay and Fr Schmidberger as “Counsellors” may well go on scheming with the Romans on how to bring what remains of the Archbishop’s Society under the heel of Conciliar Rome, but supreme power in the Society now belongs to Fr Pagliarani. Will he make good use of it? God only knows. “Charity believes all things, hopes all things” (I Cor. XIII, 7). We must pray for him.
    Kyrie eleison.
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    Offline X

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #1 on: August 11, 2018, 09:36:12 AM »
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    • Somewhat surprised to read Bishop Williamson taking a "wait and see" approach to the results of the GC (after describing it as a failure last week), given the perfect continuity between the old regime and the new on the matter of a practical accord.

    Unless God intervenes in Pagliarani like He did with Pope Pius IX, I see nothing there to inspire such hopes.

    I fear that the fence-sitters in the pews and clergy of the SSPX will look to Bishop Williamson's take, and be influenced by the same paralyzing "wait and see" attitude.

    Unfortunately, such a reaction will work against the Resistance, and for Menzingen and Rome.

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    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #2 on: August 11, 2018, 10:55:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: X on August 11, 2018, 09:36:12 AM
    Somewhat surprised to read Bishop Williamson taking a "wait and see" approach to the results of the GC (after describing it as a failure last week), given the perfect continuity between the old regime and the new on the matter of a practical accord.

    Unless God intervenes in Pagliarani like He did with Pope Pius IX, I see nothing there to inspire such hopes.

    I fear that the fence-sitters in the pews and clergy of the SSPX will look to Bishop Williamson's take, and be influenced by the same paralyzing "wait and see" attitude.

    Unfortunately, such a reaction will work against the Resistance, and for Menzingen and Rome.

    I, for one, greatly admire Bp. Williamson's words here: "... supreme power in the Society now belongs to Fr Pagliarani. Will he make good use of it? God only knows. 'Charity believes all things, hopes all things' (I Cor. XIII, 7). We must pray for him."
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #3 on: August 11, 2018, 11:07:07 AM »
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    • As long as we're fervently, actively, and vigorously pursuing the Resistance in the meantime, +W's advice is the best Catholic advice. It depends on what you consider a "given".

    For me, pursuing the Resistance as we have been is a given. That is, supporting faithful priests (that is, those in the Resistance), setting up, maintaining, and supporting alternate "Resistance" chapels (as opposed to the old SSPX chapels we used to attend/support), speak out to everyone online and offline about the machinations of the neo-SSPX and how it has changed, etc.

    While Resisting, we can meanwhile hold out some (supernatural) hope for the SSPX, and prayers are certainly never wasted. Let's not become our enemy, after all. The whole point of the Resistance is to stay Catholic along the lines of +ABL, who was faithful and Traditional as well as charitable and Catholic. 

    If we lose that, we'd fall from grace every bit as much as the SSPX did. Just in a different way, that's all. Remember, the devil doesn't care how he gets you: Giving up the fight and joining the local Diocese? Fine. Going extreme in the other direction, becoming bitter, and becoming another Dimond Brothers? Also fine. (from the devil's perspective)
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    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #4 on: August 11, 2018, 11:24:32 AM »
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    • The "fixed beforehand " was precisely to damage the SSPX resistance. The "councellors" have their agenda and is naive to think otherwise.
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    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #5 on: August 11, 2018, 03:13:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: X on August 11, 2018, 09:36:12 AM
    Somewhat surprised to read Bishop Williamson taking a "wait and see" approach to the results of the GC (after describing it as a failure last week), given the perfect continuity between the old regime and the new on the matter of a practical accord.

    Unless God intervenes in Pagliarani like He did with Pope Pius IX, I see nothing there to inspire such hopes.

    I fear that the fence-sitters in the pews and clergy of the SSPX will look to Bishop Williamson's take, and be influenced by the same paralyzing "wait and see" attitude.

    Unfortunately, such a reaction will work against the Resistance, and for Menzingen and Rome.


    Yeah, let's wait and see what the SSPX's new politburo will do?  :ready-to-eat:

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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #6 on: August 11, 2018, 04:37:06 PM »
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    • Quote
    In fairness, the Chapter did succeed in changing the Superior General, which was the most important thing that it had to do. Bishop Fellay and Fr Schmidberger as “Counsellors” may well go on scheming with the Romans on how to bring what remains of the Archbishop’s Society under the heel of Conciliar Rome, but supreme power in the Society now belongs to Fr Pagliarani. Will he make good use of it? God only knows. “Charity believes all things, hopes all things” (I Cor. XIII, 7). We must pray for him.

    In fairness to the average observer, please just admit openly that the Chapter succeeded in changing nothing.  Spell that n-o-t-h-i-n-g.  That means NOTHING!
    Even the suggestion that supreme power now belongs to Fr.Pagliarani is totally ludicrous and outrageous.  HE must believe that we, who take any interest in this affair at all, are a bunch of thumb-sucking halfwits.
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    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #7 on: August 11, 2018, 05:53:41 PM »
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    • Quote
    In fairness, the Chapter did succeed in changing the Superior General,[?] which was the most important thing that it had to do.

    Succeed? It was already known that +Fellay would not seek re election and that a priest should be the next SG as was the wish of ABL. I would not be surprised to learn that +Fellay had been advised by his Vatican "friends" and the "counselors" novelty also "fixed beforehand" perhaps with the consent of the future SG & Assistants. The resistance need to be "wise as serpents and simple as doves."
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    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #8 on: August 11, 2018, 08:16:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: hollingsworth on August 11, 2018, 04:37:06 PM
    In fairness to the average observer, please just admit openly that the Chapter succeeded in changing nothing.  Spell that n-o-t-h-i-n-g.  That means NOTHING!
    Even the suggestion that supreme power now belongs to Fr.Pagliarani is totally ludicrous and outrageous.  HE must believe that we, who take any interest in this affair at all, are a bunch of thumb-sucking halfwits.
    :baby: :baby: :baby:
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #9 on: August 12, 2018, 07:03:32 AM »
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    • What has Bishop Williamson said about Francis and his latest change to the Novus Ordo Catechism....about the death penalty always being inadmissible?  

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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #10 on: August 12, 2018, 09:54:21 AM »
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    • Quote
    In fairness, the Chapter did succeed in changing the Superior General, which was the most important thing that it had to do. Bishop Fellay and Fr Schmidberger as “Counsellors” may well go on scheming with the Romans on how to bring what remains of the Archbishop’s Society under the heel of Conciliar Rome, but supreme power in the Society now belongs to Fr Pagliarani. Will he make good use of it? God only knows. “Charity believes all things, hopes all things” (I Cor. XIII, 7). We must pray for him.
     Kyrie eleison.

     
    In fairness, the Chapter appointed four other sspx clerics. It made 1st Assistant the most feckless of all the sspx bishops. It installed as 2nd Assistant the notorious Fr. Bouchacourt, loyal toady of Bp. Fellay, slavering amigo of the Jєωs, denier of Deicide, reinforcer of the phony h0Ɩ0cαųst narrative, arch-enemy of Bp. W, and more recently, axer of seven good Society priests in France. The Chapter then reinstalled two failed Superior Generals, in whom, we know, real power and authority lie.
    Yes, “Charity believes all things.” But I doubt that Charity is a fool.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #11 on: August 12, 2018, 10:36:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on August 11, 2018, 11:07:07 AM
    Remember, the devil doesn't care how he gets you: Giving up the fight and joining the local Diocese? Fine. Going extreme in the other direction, becoming bitter, and becoming another Dimond Brothers? Also fine. (from the devil's perspective)

    Well said.  Everyone has weaknesses.  And the devil studies us to find ways to exploit these.  Only in humility by God's grace do we have any chance at all.  No issues with purity?  He'll get you with pride.  And so on ...
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    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 07:00:34 PM »
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    • Quote
    X: Somewhat surprised to read Bishop Williamson taking a "wait and see" approach to the results of the GC (after describing it as a failure last week), given the perfect continuity between the old regime and the new on the matter of a practical accord.

    I’m more than somewhat surprised. I’m flabbergasted. +W more than hinted that the whole future of sspx depended on the right choices being made during the Chapter meeting HE’s “disguised defeat” remark clearly indicates that the right choices were NOT made. Three new leaders were appointed, who seem to harmonize perfectly in purpose and direction with the old leaders. And two other (new) leaders came forward, who are actually old leaders.  These two  bear major responsibility for the Society’s steady demise since the death of its first supreme leader in 1991.
    Quote
    X: Unless God intervenes in Pagliarani like He did with Pope Pius IX, I see nothing there to inspire such hopes.

    Does anyone honestly believe that God is going to intervene in this way? I don’t. Nor, do I believe, does X.
    Quote
    X: I fear that the fence-sitters in the pews and clergy of the SSPX will look to Bishop Williamson's take, and be influenced by the same paralyzing "wait and see" attitude.

    I think that the “wait and see” mentality has already set in. Menzingen and Rome win another stunning victory

     
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    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 08:26:28 PM »
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    • Hollingsworth,
    Quote
    Quote
    Quote
    X: I fear that the fence-sitters in the pews and clergy of the SSPX will look to Bishop Williamson's take, and be influenced by the same paralyzing "wait and see" attitude.


    I think that the “wait and see” mentality has already set in. Menzingen and Rome win another stunning victory
    Wait and see has been the stock and trade of the SSPX and R&R in general since the Archbishop first made his declaration, the actors change but the policies do not and we still wait to see a change, almost half a century and we continue to wait as souls are lost to bad doctrine and non-Catholic rituals.
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    Offline Wessex

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    Re: Eleison Comments - General Chapter III (no. 578)
    « Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 09:54:41 PM »
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    • I suppose future accommodating Romans will see in the Society some kind of high church curiosity incomprehensible to new generations of barely Christian folk. Something similar will be said of future SSPX followers becoming in many ways so remote from the founder of a cause which will have lost much of its purpose. And I think traditionalism in general will suffer from its many contradictions and vagueness of meaning. Are we writing its final epitaph?
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