Author Topic: Eleison Comments CDXXXVI (436) Nov. 22, 2015 A.D. (Read 21563 times)

Paul FHC · « **Reply #95 on:** November 24, 2015, 08:04:30 AM »

How do you think bishop Williamson is going to conclude this topic in the following EC? What was his purpose in pointing out the miracles in the NO?

Cantarella · « **Reply #96 on:** November 24, 2015, 08:10:52 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: AlanF
It's entirely logical that those who recognize the Novus Ordo hierarchy sould recognize the Novus Ordo Mass as essentially Catholic, even if there are sometimes problems with the way it is celebrated. It's therefore entirely reasonable that those people should be saying that Catholics can attend the NO when it's celebrated "reverently", and try to justify this with alleged Eucharistic miracles.

It's disappointing though, I used to think Bp Williamson was a solid traditionalist. Obviously not.

That's a good point, but ABL even said that the NO leads to heresy. I have a hard time believing that he would consider an EM in a service that "leads to heresy".

No, Archbishop Lefebvre even celebrated the "new mass" since the beginning of April 1969 until December 24, 1970. There were many who were not happy about this, of course. For example, Fr. Guérard des Lauriers.

Fr. Guérard des Lauriers to Msgr. Lefèbvre:

http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f045ht_Lauriers01.htm

2Vermont · « **Reply #97 on:** November 24, 2015, 08:14:02 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: AlanF
It's entirely logical that those who recognize the Novus Ordo hierarchy sould recognize the Novus Ordo Mass as essentially Catholic, even if there are sometimes problems with the way it is celebrated. It's therefore entirely reasonable that those people should be saying that Catholics can attend the NO when it's celebrated "reverently", and try to justify this with alleged Eucharistic miracles.

It's disappointing though, I used to think Bp Williamson was a solid traditionalist. Obviously not.

That's a good point, but ABL even said that the NO leads to heresy. I have a hard time believing that he would consider an EM in a service that "leads to heresy".

No, Archbishop Lefebvre even celebrated the "new mass" since the beginning of April 1969 until December 24, 1970. There were many who were not happy about this, of course. For example, Fr. Guérard des Lauriers.

Fr. Guérard des Lauriers to Msgr. Lefèbvre:

http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f045ht_Lauriers01.htm

Yes that was in 1970. His views on the New Mass changed as time went on......

http://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass

Ladislaus · « **Reply #98 on:** November 24, 2015, 08:47:39 AM »

Quote from: Paulus Dei

Here the critics implicitly claim that in the Novus Ordo (modern) mass cannot be some miracle. It is a logical fallacy:

Speaking of logical fallacy. Nobody said "cannot". God CAN do anything He wants to. I believe that God WOULD not ... if the New Mass displeases Him as much as we think.

AlanF · « **Reply #99 on:** November 24, 2015, 09:07:37 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: Cantarella
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: AlanF
It's entirely logical that those who recognize the Novus Ordo hierarchy sould recognize the Novus Ordo Mass as essentially Catholic, even if there are sometimes problems with the way it is celebrated. It's therefore entirely reasonable that those people should be saying that Catholics can attend the NO when it's celebrated "reverently", and try to justify this with alleged Eucharistic miracles.

It's disappointing though, I used to think Bp Williamson was a solid traditionalist. Obviously not.

That's a good point, but ABL even said that the NO leads to heresy. I have a hard time believing that he would consider an EM in a service that "leads to heresy".

No, Archbishop Lefebvre even celebrated the "new mass" since the beginning of April 1969 until December 24, 1970. There were many who were not happy about this, of course. For example, Fr. Guérard des Lauriers.

Fr. Guérard des Lauriers to Msgr. Lefèbvre:

http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f045ht_Lauriers01.htm

Yes that was in 1970. His views on the New Mass changed as time went on......

http://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass

Yes, unfortunately, Archbishop Lefebvre wavered hugely in his views as time went on.