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Offline Kelley

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Eleison Comments by Mgr. Williamson Issue CCCXXXVIII
« on: January 05, 2014, 07:24:18 PM »
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    • Number CCCXXXVIII (338)   4 January 2014

    BILLOT III

    The present leaders of the Society of St Pius X are working steadily and craftily towards inserting it into the framework of the mainstream Church, which is steadily and craftily pushing forward the Revolutionary and Conciliar ideals of liberty (religious liberty), equality (collegiality) and fraternity (ecuмenism). Yet these leaders surely take Cardinal Billot seriously. They should meditate on his reflections on our Fifth Age of the Church which follow his exposition of the Seven Ages in the Epilogue to the first volume of his celebrated Treatise on the Church of Christ. Here are some of those reflections, freely translated and adapted from the Latin:--

    “Our own age would then be the Fifth Age, Age of defection, apostasy and liberalism, coming between the end of the Holy Roman Empire and what St Paul calls a “resurrection from the dead” (Rom. XI, 15). May it be so ! It gives us all amidst our so many and so great tribulations of today (the Cardinal wrote in 1927 – what would he have written in 2013?) hope of a future restoration and – forgive the expression -- Counter-revolution. Already today many leading scientists, politicians and economists are recognizing and freely admitting how poisoned are the fruits of the French Revolution of 1789, which proclaimed that the one and only source of all the world’s ills was scorn for the “rights of man”. What frivolity ! What silliness ! What stupidity !

    “The Revolutionaries’ liberty results in tyranny of the strong over the weak; their equality results in a few millionaires lording it ever more over the people (one thinks of Wall Street, 2013 !); their fraternity results in internal strife and class hatred. Some people grasp this, while many do not see the essentially satanic character of the Revolution. However those who go beneath the surface see that the religious question underlies all other questions presently agitating mankind: that the plague of political and economic liberalism arises from the atheistic and anti-Christian liberalism laid out above; that the social order can in no way be restored unless the Church’s principles once more direct public life.

    “Would that this recognition of the theory might bear practical fruit ! With all our heart we call for such a restoration, knowing how the pagan laws under which we are now living may still allow individuals to be Christian (in 2013, how much longer ?), but they make a Christian society altogether impossible. Therefore we seek above all the kingdom of God and his justice, without despising the rest that will be added unto us (cf. Mt. VI, 33). As St Paul says of godliness that it is, “profitable to all things”, so too is the Church’s influence, “having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come” (cf. I Tim. IV, 8).”

    It is not difficult to see here how the Cardinal was not one of the many souls he mentions that do not see through the false glamour of the modern world. On the contrary his firm grasp of Catholic doctrine enables him to describe our own times, nearly a century later.

    SSPX Headquarters, wake up from your foolish dream of converting the liberals now controlling the Church, and stop pretending with a flow of ambiguous Declarations that you are still defending Tradition. Your actions prove the contrary, and actions speak louder than a series of Declarations ! You have the name of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which are ready to die. Have in mind what you received from the Archbishop, and put it into practice, and do penance.

    Kyrie eleison.
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    Offline hollingsworth

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    Eleison Comments by Mgr. Williamson Issue CCCXXXVIII
    « Reply #1 on: January 05, 2014, 08:25:46 PM »
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    • Bp. Williamson:
    Quote
    SSPX Headquarters, wake up from your foolish dream of converting the liberals now controlling the Church, and stop pretending with a flow of ambiguous Declarations that you are still defending Tradition. Your actions prove the contrary, and actions speak louder than a series of Declarations ! You have the name of being alive, but you are dead.


    Fr. Hewko, in a recent sermon around Christmas in Ontario, talked about an sspx priest in Texas, who mentioned Bp. W. in a favorable light.  Father's testimony is that this priest received a telephone call very shortly thereafter from Fr. Frenchy in Platte, MO.  Father was very upset at this priest and sent him to his room.  I don't have the details in front of me.  Perhaps somebody can explain exactly how this cleric was punished.   I don't recall the priest's name.  Anyway, the more Bp. W. speaks out like this, the better.  Hopefully, more sspx priests will begin to vocalize support for His Excellency.  I'd like to see Fr. Frenchy on the phone frequently, dressing down insubordinate priests and dashing off letters of censure to them.  Perhaps this incident will set a trend here in the U.S.  
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments by Mgr. Williamson Issue CCCXXXVIII
    « Reply #2 on: January 05, 2014, 11:33:31 PM »
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    • .

    Quote
    Father was very upset at this priest and sent him to his room.

    I'd like to see Fr. Frenchy on the phone frequently, dressing down insubordinate [forthright] priests and dashing off letters of censure to them.  Perhaps this incident will set a trend here in the U.S.  


    The more cooperation and right action can be practiced the better.  If all the US district priests would say things like that, as they ought to in all righteousness (because it's true!) what is Fr. Frenchy going to do?  Send them all to their rooms?


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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments by Mgr. Williamson Issue CCCXXXVIII
    « Reply #3 on: January 05, 2014, 11:52:08 PM »
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    • .

    Quote from: +W

    SSPX Headquarters, wake up from your foolish dream of converting the liberals now controlling the Church, and stop pretending with a flow of ambiguous Declarations that you are still defending Tradition.

    Your actions prove the contrary, and actions speak louder than a series of Declarations!

    You have the name of being alive, (but you are dead). Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which are ready to die.

    Have in mind what you received from the Archbishop, and put it into practice, and do penance.




    I'm seeing Fellayites proclaim that they DO have in mind what they received from ABL.  

    They claim they ARE putting it into practice.

    But I don't see them say they're doing penance.  Interesting, no?  They're at least honest enough not to claim that they're doing penance.  

    Fellayites couldn't be thinking this up on their own.  They're being told to think this up, because someone is thinking it up for them, like the Menzingenitis minions.  

    And then the Fellayites believe it (erroneously) and they put it into practice.  

    But the fly in the ointment is, they don't claim that they're doing penance (or, do they?  I hope they don't.  I hope they don't.  I hope they don't).


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    Offline Wessex

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    Eleison Comments by Mgr. Williamson Issue CCCXXXVIII
    « Reply #4 on: January 06, 2014, 05:57:20 AM »
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    • Well, of course, the leadership is the same leadership that was pushing for conciliar recognition while Campos, Stronsay, etc. were excoriated for doing just this and while GREC was underway behind the scenes. Could it be that this leadership sees itself as so perfect as to permit contradiction and to dismiss the unease of the rank and file membership and laity?

    It will keep flogging to death ABL's readiness to negotiate with Rome and most will be content with this explanation and pattern of behaviour. And maybe ABL held together different positions of which Bp. W's is just one. Had there been a great revolt once Menzingen publicly revealed it was going to set aside doctrine for its place in the Roman sun, then the bishop would have found himself on the 'right' side of history. But it did not happen and so the hard slog starts all over again but this time with a clearer goal centred on its total opposition towards the Council.

    The Society's new mission which reluctant chapel attendees must understand is to create a climate of friendly accommodation with the mainstream and with the world. I do not think it is enough to say "but we have a good priest" or "our children need stability" or "nothing has changed". The seeds of liberalism are planted at the top and become a ripple downwards and if cleverly sown can effect a seamless transition in the minds of the average church-goer.    

       
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    Offline hollingsworth

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    Eleison Comments by Mgr. Williamson Issue CCCXXXVIII
    « Reply #5 on: January 06, 2014, 09:02:57 AM »
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    • Wessex:
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    The Society's new mission which reluctant chapel attendees must understand is to create a climate of friendly accommodation with the mainstream and with the world.


    One continuing trend seems to involve an effort to make ABL an advocate of "friendly accommodation" after 1976- the idea being that ABL was no less accommodating to Rome than is +Fellay presently.  In a recent interview conducted by Stephen Heiner with Fr. Cekada and Bp. Sanborn, these priests referred several times over to ABL as an "accommodationist."  The proof of this, of course, would be found in the public statements which ABL made and in the material which he wrote.  I can not recall anything I have read from the mouth or pen of ABL which would indicate that he indeed was an "accommodationist"  in the mold of Fellay & Co.  But Cekada and Sanborn insist that the former made accommodationists remarks all the time.  Yet they provided no examples of any such recorded remarks or writings during the entire interview with Heiner.  I think that these two clerics need put up or shut up, frankly.
    Yes, ABL did succuмb to pressures from within his apostolate on one occasion in 1988.  He quickly repented.  If ABL was open to regularization with Rome on an ongoing basis, and he made a number of statements to this effect, then, it seems only fair to all of us , that some of them should be assembled and published.  I am certain that his enemies and detractors would be only too happy to provide examples of ABL's attitude of "friendly accomodation" with the "mainstream" conciliar church after 1976 and his suspension a divinis  
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    Offline JPaul

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    Eleison Comments by Mgr. Williamson Issue CCCXXXVIII
    « Reply #6 on: January 06, 2014, 10:00:19 AM »
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    • I believe that the Archbishop an an "accomodationist" (perhaps this is an overly descriptive and exaggerated term), by training and formation and a resister by necessity.
    He did not want to break with Rome but had no choice but to do so.
    The first position demonstrated by his signing some of Vatican II's docuмents, and the second position presented by his refusing of two of them.

    I think that he wanted to be with Rome but was prevented by Rome's clear rupture with Catholicism and Tradition.

    But anyway, the seeds of this conflicted reality are represented within the recognize and resist ideology and in all of the priests who have been formed in the SSPX in his mold. Both Society proper and resistance.

    The differing factions and detractors alike have indeed seized upon these facets of the Archbishop turning him either into a villain of into a saint to suit their polemics.

    The Archbishop acted according to his time and the circuмstances which he faced, but both the time and circuмstances have change much for the worse.
    His model cannot work but in part today as the attack of the sect is much more well established and intense. Back then the camel's nose was under the tent, the Church was still Catholic, and now he sits at the dinner table dictating the menu.
    Things must be handled in a very different way if he is to be driven from the sanctuary. Soldiers who are trained in defense are rarely effective in offensive warfare.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Eleison Comments by Mgr. Williamson Issue CCCXXXVIII
    « Reply #7 on: January 06, 2014, 02:57:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: hollingsworth
    Wessex:
    Quote
    The Society's new mission which reluctant chapel attendees must understand is to create a climate of friendly accommodation with the mainstream and with the world.


    One continuing trend seems to involve an effort to make ABL an advocate of "friendly accommodation" after 1976- the idea being that ABL was no less accommodating to Rome than is +Fellay presently.  In a recent interview conducted by Stephen Heiner with Fr. Cekada and Bp. Sanborn, these priests referred several times over to ABL as an "accommodationist."  The proof of this, of course, would be found in the public statements which ABL made and in the material which he wrote.  I can not recall anything I have read from the mouth or pen of ABL which would indicate that he indeed was an "accommodationist"  in the mold of Fellay & Co.  But Cekada and Sanborn insist that the former made accommodationists remarks all the time.  Yet they provided no examples of any such recorded remarks or writings during the entire interview with Heiner.  I think that these two clerics need put up or shut up, frankly.
    Yes, ABL did succuмb to pressures from within his apostolate on one occasion in 1988.  He quickly repented.  If ABL was open to regularization with Rome on an ongoing basis, and he made a number of statements to this effect, then, it seems only fair to all of us , that some of them should be assembled and published.  I am certain that his enemies and detractors would be only too happy to provide examples of ABL's attitude of "friendly accomodation" with the "mainstream" conciliar church after 1976 and his suspension a divinis  


    The 1983 letter from the nine SSPX priests who resigned is well docuмented with their complaints of "accommodations" to newChurch.


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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Frances

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    Eleison Comments by Mgr. Williamson Issue CCCXXXVIII
    « Reply #8 on: January 06, 2014, 04:33:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: hollingsworth


    Fr. Hewko, in a recent sermon around Christmas in Ontario, talked about an sspx priest in Texas, who mentioned Bp. W. in a favorable light.  Father's testimony is that this priest received a telephone call very shortly thereafter from Fr. Frenchy in Platte, MO.   Father (Frenchy) was very upset at this priest and sent him to his room.  I don't have the details in front of me.  Perhaps somebody can explain exactly how this cleric was punished.   I don't recall the priest's name.  Anyway, the more Bp. W. speaks out like this, the better.    


     :dancing-banana:
    They're giving "time-out" to "naughty" priests?  Do his parents have to come in for a conference?  All well and good if the priest is a 6 year old in my class.  If my principal did this to me, I'd fall over laughing.  
     :roll-laugh1:
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     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments by Mgr. Williamson Issue CCCXXXVIII
    « Reply #9 on: January 06, 2014, 11:30:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous
    Quote from: hollingsworth
    Wessex:
    Quote
    The Society's new mission which reluctant chapel attendees must understand is to create a climate of friendly accommodation with the mainstream and with the world.


    One continuing trend seems to involve an effort to make ABL an advocate of "friendly accommodation" after 1976- the idea being that ABL was no less accommodating to Rome than is +Fellay presently.  In a recent interview conducted by Stephen Heiner with Fr. Cekada and Bp. Sanborn, these priests referred several times over to ABL as an "accommodationist."  The proof of this, of course, would be found in the public statements which ABL made and in the material which he wrote.  I can not recall anything I have read from the mouth or pen of ABL which would indicate that he indeed was an "accommodationist"  in the mold of Fellay & Co.  But Cekada and Sanborn insist that the former made accommodationists remarks all the time.  Yet they provided no examples of any such recorded remarks or writings during the entire interview with Heiner.  I think that these two clerics need put up or shut up, frankly.

    Yes, ABL did succuмb to pressures from within his apostolate on one occasion in 1988.  He quickly repented.  If ABL was open to regularization with Rome on an ongoing basis, and he made a number of statements to this effect, then, it seems only fair to all of us , that some of them should be assembled and published.  I am certain that his enemies and detractors would be only too happy to provide examples of ABL's attitude of "friendly accomodation" with the "mainstream" conciliar church after 1976 and his suspension a divinis  


    The 1983 letter from the nine SSPX priests who resigned is well docuмented with their complaints of "accommodations" to newChurch.




    If it was "well-docuмented," maybe it would help to see a copy.

    Is there a copy on CI somewhere?  Is it easy to find?  Can you provide a link?

    Is there a copy on some other website?  Can you provide a link for that?  


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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments by Mgr. Williamson Issue CCCXXXVIII
    « Reply #10 on: January 06, 2014, 11:58:53 PM »
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    • .

    What seems to be happening is that everyone is taking a piece of ABL, and then leaving the rest.  


    ABL is being torn apart as if by scavengers.


    The Newchurchers say ABL was 'excommunicated' so he's outside the Church and so he doesn't matter -- hey, when the excoms were 'lifted' B16 didn't say anything about his archenemies, ABL and +AdCM.

    The progressives say he was in favor of negotiations with NewRome, so that's why we can be that way too.

    The Resistance says he was opposed to making a 'deal' with modernist Rome, therefore we must persevere unto the end if we would be saved.

    The BoD-ers say ABL was on their side, along with the Fathers, Doctors, Saints, Popes, Councils, Catechisms and the Bible. (Not to mention Karl Rahner, Henri de Lubac, Joseph Ratzinger, et. al.)

    The sedevacantists say ABL was in favor of steering clear of the heretics because the Newmass and the Newsacraments are invalid, and the pope is not the pope, and the bishops are not the bishops, and the priests are not the priests...

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    What did Our Lord say?  

    "Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together"
    (Matt. xxiv. 28).


    So............. where's the body?

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    "Gathered [together] near Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s tomb, the capitularies...,"
    the eagles of the Society ... wheresoever the body shall be ...


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    Offline JPaul

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    Eleison Comments by Mgr. Williamson Issue CCCXXXVIII
    « Reply #11 on: January 07, 2014, 05:13:46 PM »
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    • Well said! each according to his own purpose
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