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How many EC’s were spent getting the (resistance) faithful prepared for the outcomes of the recently concluded General Chapter? A number of them. He seemed to be telling me, anyway, that the future of sspx rested on whom they would appoint to be the SG. That the organization was on life supports, and that its future survival depended on the kind of specially gathered priests the capitulants would choose. Am I the only one who awaited with interest his reaction from the wings?I figured he might be trying to buy some time to put together a better EC to comment on the election. If the next EC doesn't address it in a big way then I will be scratching my head more than ever.
But what do we get in the immediate aftermath of these elections? An EC on artificial intelligence. Is the bishop just trying to be cute and coy? Does this obvious attempt at misdirection serve a higher, yet unknown, purpose? I’m pretty disgusted at this point, with both him and the whole darned affair.
I figured he might be trying to buy some time to put together a better EC to comment on the election.I agree. I'm sure it takes some time to write his EC's and he has to fit them into his other duties. Patience!!
The Bishop just got back from a very busy trip to the USA. Have the charity to consider that he is not in his 20's anymore! I am glad he got to enjoy a well deserved 30th celebration after all the sufferings he has endured and all his sacrifices. May he recovers well from an exhausting trip.
The rules of discernment ask for no rushing... Can we wait?
I agree. I'm sure it takes some time to write his EC's and he has to fit them into his other duties. Patience!!.
How many EC’s were spent getting the (resistance) faithful prepared for the outcomes of the recently concluded General Chapter?.
Yes, I thought this one was strange. I was hoping to see Bishop Williamson's thoughts about the new superior general because I figured he must know him, but we get this. I hope next week's is about the new SG..
No doubt this posturing cleric (are there any other kind?) performed intensive damage limitation when replacing the bishop in the Argie seminary. Calling upon an Italian tendency to sell his own soul to become politically correct and please the Swiss banker who calls himself a bishop, he would necessarily develop the art of lying through his teeth and become well qualified in his new role. Once upon a time, those of us who wished to return to an honest simple application of the faith away from the excesses of the past and the watered down substitute all these obese bishops had in store for us this experiment of tradition has quickly acquired all those nasty aspects of religion.
From what I recall, +W writes his EC at least a week or more before they are posted here or elsewhere. This current EC was probably written before the start of the SSPX General Chapter. And as you say, +W has just returned home from his trip, and I think its likely he needs a bit of time to gather his thoughts. It's not always easy for older folks to recover from trips abroad.
Sorry, I can’t altogether buy that explanation. Yes, as you say, he may have written this EC before the general chapter ever commenced. But that would not have prevented the bishop from tacking on a short paragraph at the end of this EC, informing the faithful, that he had much to say about the event, but that, at present, he was still formulating his thoughts, and would record his reactions in a future EC.
Neither can I buy your response:
Sorry, I can’t altogether buy that explanation. Yes, as you say, he may have written this EC before the general chapter ever commenced. But that would not have prevented the bishop from tacking on a short paragraph at the end of this EC, informing the faithful, that he had much to say about the event, but that, at present, he was still formulating his thoughts, and would record his reactions in a future EC.
Why are you in such a hurry to see the Bishop's view on the matter? Do you highly value his opinion?
How sad the plight of the traditional Catholic remnant.And so it is that we should look to the ancient Fathers for guidance in staying faithful in times of heresy, modern clerics who are guided by visionaries and apparitions are not reliable reflections of the sound doctrines to which we should have recourse.
The SSPX has turned the fight for the Faith into a Spaghetti western.
The Pfeiffer resistance turned it into a Harry Potter show.
And Bp. Williamson, telling us it was hopeless to fight the enemies of the Church... retired ?
But still blessed are we few, because our Church Fathers did not give up the fight.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Saintclementmartyr.png)
St. Pope Clement I's martyrdom
How sad the plight of the traditional Catholic remnant.
The SSPX has turned the fight for the Faith into a Spaghetti western.
The Pfeiffer resistance turned it into a Harry Potter show.
And Bp. Williamson, telling us it was hopeless to fight the enemies of the Church... retired ?
Consider that in addition to the (Resistance & SSPX) seminarians, the SSPX rules almost 700 priests.
Can they all be comfortable with Francis?
Have our four Resistance Bishops made plans to reach-out to the disaffected ones?
Are they actively embracing them, willing and able to bring them into the Resistance fold?
Yes, we Americans are an impatient people :ready-to-eat:
The rebuttal is, it's hard to find quality seminarians and there's a 6-year bake cycle before ordination.
But even Bishop Williamson has lectured that "Americans are a people of action."
Consider that in addition to the (Resistance & SSPX) seminarians, the SSPX rules almost 700 priests.
Can they all be comfortable with Francis?
Have our four Resistance Bishops made plans to reach-out to the disaffected ones?
Are they actively embracing them, willing and able to bring them into the Resistance fold?
There's many a Resistance and Independent chapel who needs a priest.
Have our four Resistance Bishops made plans to reach-out to the disaffected ones (i.e. sspx priests)?
Are they actively embracing them, willing and able to bring them into the Resistance fold?
There's many a Resistance and Independent chapel who needs a priest.
Man has all of these material abilities or faculties of animal and vegetable, but he also shares with the angels the spiritual faculties of mind and will, in other words he has sensation and reason, meaning the ability of the mind to read within particular sensations their universal essences, and the ability of will to desire in accordance with what his mind has read. These two faculties no animal has (when an animal behaves with apparent intelligence, like a bee for instance, that is thanks only to the animal instincts implanted in it by its supremely intelligent Creator)..
Angels have mind and will, but no material faculties of the animals, because angels are purely spiritual. (The animal faculties of sense-knowledge and sense-desire all involve matter, absent in the angels.)
Now whatever is truly human, or human as such, is what men have that neither animals, vegetable nor mineral have. But all machines are purely mineral and essentially, by their essence, inanimate. At their most complicated they still have no principle or origin of life or movement from within them. Any movement of them by electricity for instance, is from without. It follows that computers have no inner grasp whatsoever of any truly human activity, which, as human, completely escapes them. All they can do is register from outside what is observable and computable in people’s behaviour, and churn out statistics and spread-sheets, i.e. numbers, which they are good at. But Churchill said – he was no Saint but he was a human politician – “there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.” And why do statistics lie, if not because the essentially human essentially escapes them?
Here is an example. In New York maybe 15 years back, a group of computer experts set up a computer, Deep Blue, to play chess against Kasparov, the world chess champion. Now if there is a game suited to computers, it is chess, because if only one can process billions of alternative moves in a few minutes, or seconds, one can come up with the best move that leaves nothing to chance. Guess what? After a few games the experts had to reset the computer to respond to how Kasparov was playing! Computers have no inner life or initiative, they cannot think outside of the box programmed into them, they cannot possibly respond to any eventuality outside of their box. Game, set and match to human beings!
Was it not Our Lady of Good Success who advised Mother Mariana that a prelate would arise to fight and save Catholic tradition?
Most of us believe this to be true.
I see. We are dumb dummies compared to the Resistance Bishops :farmer:Said prelate has yet to make an appearance. The ABL line will not be the savior of the Church, contrary to the prophecies of the modern visionaries and seers. I sometimes have a feeling that restoration may come from the East.
But please allow one further observation.
Was it not Our Lady of Good Success who advised Mother Mariana that a prelate would arise to fight and save Catholic tradition?
Most of us believe this to be true.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gNbDPnJsPGg/VM7JV0KUH-I/AAAAAAAAPlY/BgFt48_Cc-w/s1600/our%2Blady%2Bof%2Bgood%2Bsuccess1.jpg)
Many even speculated that this prophecy implied the prelate was +ABL ?
But with all the shenanigans that have come to pass and based on the fruits of both the neo-SSPX and SSPX Resistance,
it seems clear, this prelate will not come from the +ABL line.
Who will fully engage the fight?
We, "watch and pray"... but stay on the look-out, to see the fruits from elsewhere.
Incred:Holli,
I don't necessarily believe it. In fact, I could be persuaded at this point that ABL may have made some very serious missteps, for which numbers of traditional Catholics are paying a heavy price today.
Holli,
Your eyes have opened, we have been captured and held in check for decades now, while the Traditional elite have sold away our birthright, a heavy price indeed.
JPaul :What I meant is that, your thinking on this subject has advanced far beyond what it was, a few years ago.(mine as well)
"Your eyes have (finally) opened?" Is that what you mean. If so, I think my eyes were opened some years ago. i don't wish to cast aspersions upon the memory of ABL. Relative to numbers of others, wearing the clerical garb of traditional Catholicism, ABL shines forth and excels above them. It is just that I don't presently view him as a saint, nor that he was the prelate envisioned by Sr. Mariana. A certain mythology has sprung up around the Archbishop which I think it may be wise to either ignore, and maybe, even repudiate.
How many EC’s were spent getting the (resistance) faithful prepared for the outcomes of the recently concluded General Chapter? A number of them. He seemed to be telling me, anyway, that the future of sspx rested on whom they would appoint to be the SG. That the organization was on life supports, and that its future survival depended on the kind of specially gathered priests the capitulants would choose. Am I the only one who awaited with interest his reaction from the wings?As a sede-outsider, I see your point. However, I would give him some time. The General Chapter isn't over yet and there have been some recent happenings that will make for a more comprehensive response from Bishop W.
But what do we get in the immediate aftermath of these elections? An EC on artificial intelligence. Is the bishop just trying to be cute and coy? Does this obvious attempt at misdirection serve a higher, yet unknown, purpose? I’m pretty disgusted at this point, with both him and the whole darned affair.
I see. We are dumb dummies compared to the Resistance Bishops :farmer:
But please allow one further observation.
Was it not Our Lady of Good Success who advised Mother Mariana that a prelate would arise to fight and save Catholic tradition?
Most of us believe this to be true.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gNbDPnJsPGg/VM7JV0KUH-I/AAAAAAAAPlY/BgFt48_Cc-w/s1600/our%2Blady%2Bof%2Bgood%2Bsuccess1.jpg)
Many even speculated that this prophecy implied the prelate was +ABL ?
But with all the shenanigans that have come to pass and based on the fruits of both the neo-SSPX and SSPX Resistance,
it seems clear, this prelate will not come from the +ABL line.
Who will fully engage the fight?
We, "watch and pray"... but stay on the look-out, to see the fruits from elsewhere.
| (https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/Images/B_000_WhatPeopleAreSaying02_Cir_sm.jpg) (https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/F000_Questions_TIA.html) |
To Whom It May Concern,
I have followed with keen interest the stories of Our Lady of Good Success (https://www.traditioninaction.org/OLGS/olgshome.htm) and your books published (https://www.traditioninaction.org/booksOLGS.htm) about Mother Mariana. It is, indeed, a consoling apparition for us Catholics hanging on to tradition. I am sincerely puzzled, however, about your interpretations of the Blessed Mother's message to Mother Mariana. She was asked to suffer so that God would send us a prelate to stand up to the apostasy of our times and form good and holy priests.
You seem to believe this prelate is yet to come. But how then have we "traditional" Catholics hung on to our lifeboat of the traditional liturgy and Faith without Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre paving the way? Without him standing up to the apostasy and leading, not just the SSPX, but other orthodox, good Catholics through the desert of over 40 years now? What would there be now if it were not for him?
It would also seem futile for Mother Mariana to suffer and a prelate not show up for the time span in which the apostasy was occurring. The pin-pointing of time by the Blessed Mother also indicates there being an answer within the 20th century. Heresies will flourish from "the end of the 19th century and advancing into a large part of the 20th century" would imply that there is a time within the 20th century that heresies will be abated. Certainly heresies have not been abated through the Vatican, but then by whom, if not Archbishop Lefebvre?
Also, as pointed out within your books, it was an honor for the religious to die on the feast day of a great saint. This evidenced by Mother Mariana's Superior given to know that she would earn her eternal reward on the Feast of St. Francis of Assisi. Well then, what of January 16th, the day when Mother Mariana was called back to Our Father's Home? It is the feast of St.Pope Marcellus I. He was given the title of martyr because, for his strong conviction of the Faith, he was banished into exile by the fool-hardy king of his day. Marcellus (aka Marcel), meaning "warlike defender", astoundingly depicts the character of this important saint of our Church's history and the one yet unrecognized by the Church in our modern days (Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre).
Finally, though as I'm sure you know, the Archbishop was a humble man. He had mentioned this apparition of Our Lady of Good Success in his sermon the day he consecrated the bishops to propagate the Faith. He said he had just learned of it. He did not, in fact, mention that this prelate was himself - humble as he was - but what a great consolation it must have been for him to hear the exact troubles of our days foretold by the Blessed Mother and that the very path he had been taking was the remedy the Blessed Mother asked Mother Mariana to suffer so greatly for! And I'm sure it's by no small coincidence the timing the Archbishop was given to know of this deliberately obscured apparition! All for the greater glory of God.
Sincerely in Christ,
N.N.(https://www.traditioninaction.org/images/burbtn.gif)
TIA responds:
N.N.,
We respect your interpretation of that part of Mother Mariana’s prophecy mentioning a future prelate who will restore the Church. Regarding private prophecies, we believe any person is entitled to his own opinion until the prophecy is fulfilled or until Holy Mother Church presents her final interpretation of it.
In the realm of facts, we have some observations on the presuppositions of your letter:
1. We are glad to acknowledge that, by founding the Society of St. Pius X, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre greatly contributed to keep the Tridentine Mass alive among Catholics in the long period when this Mass was effectively banned by the Liturgical Reform of Paul VI. However, we do not believe he was the only one doing this meritorious work.
Indeed, Archbishop Pierre Martin Ngo Dình Thuc preceded Archbishop Lefebvre in that fidelity to the Traditional Latin Mass, as well as in the excommunication he received from the Vatican when he consecrated Bishops in 1976 to continue his work. Regarding the Mass the two Prelates took similar positions. The main difference between them is that Archbishop Thuc founded an underground movement quite difficult to control or even to track and, hence, open to all kinds of speculations, while Archbishop Lefebvre founded one that is visible and public.
Besides these two Prelates - along with the Bishops consecrated by them - others also assisted in the same effort of maintaining the Tridentine Mass, although without founding priestly organizations. For example, Archbishop Geraldo Proença Sigaud and Bishop Antonio Castro Mayer in Brazil also maintained the Tridentine Mass alive in that country of the largest Catholic population in the world, where SSPX has little influence.
We should not disregard that the true Sacrifice of Calvary continued to be indisputably renewed also by the Masses of other Catholic Rites, which only very slowly are being forced by the Vatican to adapt their liturgies to the progressivist reforms of the Latin Rite. These Rites count more than 15 million faithful, including large Catholic communities such as 5,5 million Catholics of the Ukrainian Catholic Rite, 3 million of the Maronite Rite, 3 million of the Syro-Malabar Rite and one million of the Melkite Rite.
Therefore, Archbishop Lefebvre was neither the only Prelate to maintain the Tridentine Mass, as implied in your letter, nor was the true Sacrifice of the Mass upheld only by means of the Latin Rite Mass.
2. For a long period Archbishop Lefebvre presented himself within SSPX as not having signed the docuмents of Vatican II. His faithful followers would take offense if anyone supported the opposite, even when presenting solid arguments. However, after an interview (https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/F032_Royos_SSPX.html) of Card. Hoyos in 2008 where he affirmed Msgr. Lefebvre had signed all the docuмents, this internal “dogma” became less secure. Later, the Vatican released photocopies of the conciliar docuмents signed by the French Archbishop, putting to rest that false statement.
Today even the four Bishops of SSPX admit that Msgr. Lefebvre had signed all the docuмents, as Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais stated in his recently published biography on Archbishop Lefebvre.
Although in broad lines Msgr. Lefebvre took a line of action that opposed the Council after that signature, today a growing number of his followers - including the Bishops he consecrated - act as if his opposition to the Council was quite nuanced. They imply he would have accepted Vatican II if it were interpreted in the light of Tradition. If this is true, we have Msgr. Lefebvre as a man who saw the Council not as a great catastrophe that should be completely wiped away from the Church, but as a man who wanted to save the Council.
Now, how is it possible to consider a Prelate who signed the docuмents of Vatican II and wanted to save it as a restorer of the Church from the present day apostasy? Especially since those docuмents are the official expression of that same apostasy.
We know from History that the cause of the persecution against St. Athanasius and St. Hilary of Poitiers was their refusal to agree with the various Arian or Semi-Arian councils of their time. It does not appear that Archbishop Lefebvre followed those glorious examples, since he signed all the Vatican II docuмents and would accept it if it were interpreted correctly.
This is why, in our opinion, he is not the Prelate foreseen in Mother Mariana’s revelations. As you correctly noted, we believe that the mentioned Prelate is still to come.
Cordially,
TIA correspondence desk
Interesting. Perhaps +ABL is like John the Baptist: something of a precursor although he never actually pointed to any one person.https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/F045_Lefevbre.html
Is Msgr. Lefebvre the Prelate
Predicted to Restore the Church?
(https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/Images/B_000_WhatPeopleAreSaying02_Cir_sm.jpg) (https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/F000_Questions_TIA.html) Posted November 2, 2010
Interesting. Perhaps +ABL is like John the Baptist: something of a precursor although he never actually pointed to any one person.As it has worked out he pointed to Fr Schmidberger who pointed to Bp. Fellay who pointed to Fr Pagliarani who has now pointed out to both Schmidberger and Fellay
As it has worked out he pointed to Fr Schmidberger who pointed to Bp. Fellay who pointed to Fr Pagliarani who has now pointed out to both Schmidberger and FellayUnfortunately, that sounds more circular.
Said prelate has yet to make an appearance. The ABL line will not be the savior of the Church, contrary to the prophecies of the modern visionaries and seers. I sometimes have a feeling that restoration may come from the East.
We only have one savior. We already know that +ABL is not our "savior;" (that's an exaggeration) and you often have an accusatory tone toward others who believe that +ABL was raised to help restore the Church and fight heresy. You aren't required to believe that +ABL has helped to save the Church. But we do have reason to believe that God had raised him up to help restore the Church.Perhaps what you perceive a an accusatory tone is simply to balance out the cultic fervor of some of his followers which has been in evidence at times, and seems to rise up whenever questions are raised about why he never adapted his thinking to the changing realities around him and the worsening destruction of religion.
You have a feeling that restoration may come from the east. Well, maybe it will. But what we believe about +ABL is more than just feelings. He was a real person who existed in reality, and we know that he tried to do what he could to maintain Tradition and fight heresy. I'm pretty sure that he did more than any of us have.
Perhaps what you perceive a an accusatory tone is simply to balance out the cultic fervor of some of his followers which has been in evidence at times, and seems to rise up whenever questions are raised about why he never adapted his thinking to the changing realities around him and the worsening destruction of religion.
Great find! Thanks for posting this AJNC.https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/F045_Lefevbre.html
Is Msgr. Lefebvre the Prelate
Predicted to Restore the Church?
(https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/Images/B_000_WhatPeopleAreSaying02_Cir_sm.jpg) (https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/F000_Questions_TIA.html) Posted November 2,
This is a true rendering of the facts. I have always maintained the Archbishop Lefebvre signed all the docuмents and thus was as responsible as any other who did the same thing for the crisis. He did do a lot to battle against certain docuмents implementation during the ensuing years but as pointed out here, there were others who took a truly took a stand opposing the council and the new mass. That they did not achieve his notoriety is not important. That they took the principled stand in favor of the Traditional faith is what counts.
We should give due where it is appropriate but always according to reality not mythologies. It is interesting, why did they lie about him signing all the docuмents? It was not a very Catholic thing to do for so many years.
Certainly Mr. Brian Mc Call wasn't very smart when commenting about an event that wasn't over yet, now he has to eat his own words. The Bishop is smarter than that, and I am glad to wait for a responsible comment, based on all the facts!:applause: