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Author Topic: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)  (Read 3937 times)

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Offline Matthew

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  • Number DLXXIV (574)
    July 14, 2018
    Artificial Intelligence? – I
    What fools are human beings that want to make
    Computers into God! Humans, awake!

    It seems that there is currently more and more talk of AI, or Artificial Intelligence. In other words, so many people are so impressed by the extraordinary progress made over the last few years in the development of computers and of machines directed by computers, that they seriously consider the taking over of more and more normally human and even divine tasks by computer robots. Anybody with a grain of common sense knows that there are strict limits to what machines are capable of, but any such person also knows how common sense is being eroded today by the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, which has a major vested interest in using its media, politics, education, etcetera, to detach people more and more from reality so that they can be the more easily controlled. It is time to repeat a few very simple basics.
    All beings whatsoever fall into one of six categories: beneath God the Creator there are five ordered ranks of His creatures: angels, human beings, animal, vegetable and mineral. These five ranks are clearly distinct from one another, even though television programmes do their best to blur the distinctions, especially between men and animals. But the distinctions are clear in reality. Starting from below,
    Mineral merely exists, because it has within it no principle or origin of life or movement.
    Vegetable both exists and lives, because from within, it ingests (eg water), grows and reproduces itself.
    Animal has all these three abilities within it, but it also senses, in other words by some or all of the five sense faculties (sight, hearing, smell, touch and taste) it has sense knowledge of things outside it.
    Man has all of these material abilities or faculties of animal and vegetable, but he also shares with the angels the spiritual faculties of mind and will, in other words he has sensation and reason, meaning the ability of the mind to read within particular sensations their universal essences, and the ability of will to desire in accordance with what his mind has read. These two faculties no animal has (when an animal behaves with apparent intelligence, like a bee for instance, that is thanks only to the animal instincts implanted in it by its supremely intelligent Creator).
    Angels have mind and will, but no material faculties of the animals, because angels are purely spiritual. (The animal faculties of sense-knowledge and sense-desire all involve matter, absent in the angels.)
    Now whatever is truly human, or human as such, is what men have that neither animals, vegetable nor mineral have. But all machines are purely mineral and essentially, by their essence, inanimate. At their most complicated they still have no principle or origin of life or movement from within them. Any movement of them by electricity for instance, is from without. It follows that computers have no inner grasp whatsoever of any truly human activity, which, as human, completely escapes them. All they can do is register from outside what is observable and computable in people’s behaviour, and churn out statistics and spread-sheets, i.e. numbers, which they are good at. But Churchill said – he was no Saint but he was a human politician – “there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.” And why do statistics lie, if not because the essentially human essentially escapes them?
    Here is an example. In New York maybe 15 years back, a group of computer experts set up a computer, Deep Blue, to play chess against Kasparov, the world chess champion. Now if there is a game suited to computers, it is chess, because if only one can process billions of alternative moves in a few minutes, or seconds, one can come up with the best move that leaves nothing to chance. Guess what? After a few games the experts had to reset the computer to respond to how Kasparov was playing! Computers have no inner life or initiative, they cannot think outside of the box programmed into them, they cannot possibly respond to any eventuality outside of their box. Game, set and match to human beings!
    Kyrie eleison.
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    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #1 on: July 16, 2018, 01:34:44 PM »
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  • How many EC’s were spent getting the (resistance) faithful prepared for the outcomes of the recently concluded General Chapter? A number of them. He seemed to be telling me, anyway, that the future of sspx rested on whom they would appoint to be the SG. That the organization was on life supports, and that its future survival depended on the kind of specially gathered priests the capitulants would choose. Am I the only one who awaited with interest his reaction from the wings?
    But what do we get in the immediate aftermath of these elections? An EC on artificial intelligence. Is the bishop just trying to be cute and coy? Does this obvious attempt at misdirection serve a higher, yet unknown, purpose? I’m pretty disgusted at this point, with both him and the whole darned affair.


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #2 on: July 16, 2018, 01:52:18 PM »
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  • How many EC’s were spent getting the (resistance) faithful prepared for the outcomes of the recently concluded General Chapter? A number of them. He seemed to be telling me, anyway, that the future of sspx rested on whom they would appoint to be the SG. That the organization was on life supports, and that its future survival depended on the kind of specially gathered priests the capitulants would choose. Am I the only one who awaited with interest his reaction from the wings?
    But what do we get in the immediate aftermath of these elections? An EC on artificial intelligence. Is the bishop just trying to be cute and coy? Does this obvious attempt at misdirection serve a higher, yet unknown, purpose? I’m pretty disgusted at this point, with both him and the whole darned affair.
    I figured he might be trying to buy some time to put together a better EC to comment on the election.  If the next EC doesn't address it in a big way then I will be scratching my head more than ever.

    Offline Matto

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #3 on: July 16, 2018, 02:08:50 PM »
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  • Yes, I thought this one was strange. I was hoping to see Bishop Williamson's thoughts about the new superior general because I figured he must know him, but we get this. I hope next week's is about the new SG.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline stgobnait

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #4 on: July 16, 2018, 02:21:38 PM »
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  • Looks like he is dammed if he does, and dammed if he doesn't... comment.


    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #5 on: July 16, 2018, 02:33:27 PM »
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  • Maybe the bishop is setting up the possibility that the capitulants did not really, conciously, cast votes for the new SG and his assistants. Maybe, in the end, he’s going to suggest that these new leaders were selected via the operation of artificial intelligence; that certain algorithms were developed and fed into some kind of AI device, which, in turn, spit out these three names. Should there be enough negative blowback, these same capitulants can claim that they simply accepted the results as they were displayed on the screen. It’s kind of a far fetched idea, but not much less bizzare than the good bishop’s immediate response.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #6 on: July 16, 2018, 03:32:17 PM »
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  • Quote
    I figured he might be trying to buy some time to put together a better EC to comment on the election. 
    I agree.  I'm sure it takes some time to write his EC's and he has to fit them into his other duties.  Patience!!

    Offline AveCorMariae

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #7 on: July 16, 2018, 03:49:05 PM »
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  • The Bishop just got back from a very busy trip to the USA. Have the charity to consider that he is not in his 20's anymore! I am glad he got to enjoy a well deserved 30th celebration after all the sufferings he has endured and all his sacrifices. May he recovers well from an exhausting trip.   

    The rules of discernment ask for no rushing... Can we wait?


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #8 on: July 16, 2018, 04:23:28 PM »
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  • The Bishop just got back from a very busy trip to the USA. Have the charity to consider that he is not in his 20's anymore! I am glad he got to enjoy a well deserved 30th celebration after all the sufferings he has endured and all his sacrifices. May he recovers well from an exhausting trip.  

    The rules of discernment ask for no rushing... Can we wait?

    Well said.

    From what I recall, +W writes his EC at least a week or more before they are posted here or elsewhere. This current EC was probably written before the start of the SSPX General Chapter. And as you say, +W has just returned home from his trip, and I think its likely he needs a bit of time to gather his thoughts. It's not always easy for older folks to recover from trips abroad. 

    I find his views on the issue of so-called AI to be quite informative. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #9 on: July 17, 2018, 12:39:06 AM »
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  • I agree.  I'm sure it takes some time to write his EC's and he has to fit them into his other duties.  Patience!!
    .
    But I've already used up all my patience waiting for the 30-year anniversary photos! (what photos?) 
    .
    hollingsworth said:
    Quote
    How many EC’s were spent getting the (resistance) faithful prepared for the outcomes of the recently concluded General Chapter? 
    .
    The recent General Chapter is not "recently concluded." It still has 5 more days left. 
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #10 on: July 17, 2018, 12:48:42 AM »
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  • Yes, I thought this one was strange. I was hoping to see Bishop Williamson's thoughts about the new superior general because I figured he must know him, but we get this. I hope next week's is about the new SG.
    .
    Sadly, the new SG could be caught saying when asked about +W,.......... that he never knew the man. 
    .
    The XSPX is pulling out all the stops on an agenda to erase all memory of +W's existence. 

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    Offline Wessex

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #11 on: July 17, 2018, 07:19:49 AM »
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  • No doubt this posturing cleric (are there any other kind?) performed intensive damage limitation when replacing the bishop in the Argie seminary. Calling upon an Italian tendency to sell his own soul to become politically correct and please the Swiss banker who calls himself a bishop, he would necessarily develop the art of lying through his teeth and become well qualified in his new role. Once upon a time, those of us who wished to return to an honest simple application of the faith away from the excesses of the past and the watered down substitute all these obese bishops had in store for us this experiment of tradition has quickly acquired all those nasty aspects of religion. 

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #12 on: July 17, 2018, 09:33:41 AM »
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  • Do people need Bishop Williamson's direction to come to conclusions and access the implications of the chapter?
    Cannot people think for themselves anymore?
    It is no wonder that he has switched the subject Artificial Intelligence as it seems there is a shortage of Human intelligence
    among Traditional Catholics these days.

    It reminds one of the time when folks in wait, held there breath in anticipation of the quarterly "the Society's relations with Rome" updates when there would be some minor happening, a rehash of platitudes and then the faithful thinking that something good had happened when actually nothing had happened.

    The agenda of the regime has not changed since Paul VI, and it it continues today. Nothing has changed except for the weakening and memory loss of Tradition.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #13 on: July 17, 2018, 09:38:48 AM »
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  • No doubt this posturing cleric (are there any other kind?) performed intensive damage limitation when replacing the bishop in the Argie seminary. Calling upon an Italian tendency to sell his own soul to become politically correct and please the Swiss banker who calls himself a bishop, he would necessarily develop the art of lying through his teeth and become well qualified in his new role. Once upon a time, those of us who wished to return to an honest simple application of the faith away from the excesses of the past and the watered down substitute all these obese bishops had in store for us this experiment of tradition has quickly acquired all those nasty aspects of religion.

    Well, we don't have a lot of facts as to what he did in the Argentine seminary. He may have done damage, that's true.

    Have you viewed recent the video of the sermon of Fr. Chazal that Matthew has on another thread? In the video, Fr. Chazal describes how he knew Fr. Pagliarani quite well, since they were in seminary together, and were ordained in the same ceremony. Here's the video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=571&v=CrRIYvM8v0M

    Fr. Chazal looked up to Fr. Pagliarani in those days. However, he says that the role of Fr. Pagliarani in silencing Fr. Jorna at the 2012 chapter is very grave indeed. And his supposed comments a few years ago, where he may have mocked those who had a "Resistance" POV are also troubling. However, I get the impression that Fr. Chazal only wants to make assumptions regarding Fr. Pagliarani that are based on verifiable facts, and to date, he says, we don't know a lot about him, and that we should give him a chance. That may sound too charitable, but as Bp. Williamson recently said in his sermon at his 30 year anniversary, we need two things mainly in the Resistance: the Rosary and humility. Fr. Girouard also said that we need humility. How else to defeat the problem at hand? Proclaim the truth, but do so with humility. That's my impression anyway.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Artificial Intelligence? Part 1 (no. 574)
    « Reply #14 on: July 17, 2018, 01:53:57 PM »
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  • Quote
    From what I recall, +W writes his EC at least a week or more before they are posted here or elsewhere. This current EC was probably written before the start of the SSPX General Chapter. And as you say, +W has just returned home from his trip, and I think its likely he needs a bit of time to gather his thoughts. It's not always easy for older folks to recover from trips abroad. 


     
    Sorry, I can’t altogether buy that explanation. Yes, as you say, he may have written this EC before the general chapter ever commenced. But that would not have prevented the bishop from tacking on a short paragraph at the end of this EC, informing the faithful, that he had much to say about the event, but that, at present, he was still formulating his thoughts, and would record his reactions in a future EC.