Author Topic: ELEISON COMMENTS #535 PUTIN SPEAKS Oct. 18 A.D. 2017 (Read 4438 times)

Maria Regina · « **Reply #30 on:** October 20, 2017, 06:56:24 PM »

Quote from: DZ PLEASE on October 20, 2017, 06:52:50 PM

Gilding lilies, or polishing turds, BS is BS as much as we'd like ours to be noble, deeply significant, and chock full of pathos.

It doesn't take a PhD to know which end of the horse is for apples.

At least road apples and cow paddies smell a whole lot better than what comes out of humans.

DZ PLEASE · « **Reply #31 on:** October 20, 2017, 06:57:11 PM »

Quote from: Maria Regina on October 20, 2017, 06:56:24 PM

At least road apples and cow paddies smell a whole lot better than what comes out of humans.

By-and-large, I'd have to agree ma'am.

klasG4e · « **Reply #32 on:** October 20, 2017, 09:06:22 PM »

Quote from: GJC on October 20, 2017, 05:50:12 PM

Absolutely and Absolutely.

Matter of fact it is the duty of every Catholic to point it out, see St. Bellarmine for more instruction.

Schismatics are not holy, not part of the Church and in mortal sin. The hope of course is for conversion.

Schismatics serve the devil, that is why they are not children of God. The hope is the same, they convert and serve God with the time they have left.

These are basis Catholic principles here, aren't they?

Are you declaring on this forum that you KNOW what the SUBJECTIVE state of Vladimir Putin's soul is and that it is the state of mortal sin? Also, do you deny the possibility that Vladmir Putin may have actually prayed to God petitioning Him for the courage and wisdom to act and or refrain from acting in such a way so as to prevent war and sustain peace and that God may have actually granted him his petition thus allowing him the courage and wisdom to act and or refrain from acting in such a way so as to prevent war and sustain peace?

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #33 on:** October 20, 2017, 09:43:41 PM »

Quote from: DZ PLEASE on October 19, 2017, 11:12:12 PM

Feel better?

.
Easy! holly's desperately trying to control himself............ :-\
.

St Ignatius · « **Reply #34 on:** October 21, 2017, 11:55:58 AM »

I think it's time to review the original Eleision Comments of Aug 5...

Let's read "Holy Russia" used in it's FULL CONTEXT...

FATIMA CONSECRATION – II
August 5, 2017

Number DXXV (525)

Printable PDF

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Head on, Our Lady and the Council clash –
Not heeding her, the universe will crash!
Here is the second and last part of the formula of Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, as used by four bishops in the United States three months ago:—
Just three years later that punishment began with the churchmen’s refusal to make public the third part of your Secret message of Fatima, which you had asked them to publish at the latest in 1960. By an almost unpardonable lie they pretended that you had told them, that from 1960 onwards they might publish it, and this effort of theirs to stifle your message of Fatima has continued ever since, culminating in the year 2000. But you have never given up your attempts to save us, while the churchmen were even more severely punished by the blindness which overwhelmed them at the Second Vatican Council. In the third part of the Secret it is most likely that you had warned against exactly the errors which prevailed at that Council. And now the entire Church is in darkness, and the world is on the brink of the third and most terrible World War.
Immaculate Heart of Mary, most Holy Mother of God, we cry to you in our distress. Help of Christians, Refuge of Sinners, Comforter of the Afflicted we trust in you. Queen of the Most Holy Rosary, Mother of the Church, we implore your most loving, maternal and Immaculate Heart to have mercy upon us poor sinners, your children; hear and answer our plea. We beg of you to obtain from your Divine Son, the graces necessary for the Holy Father and the bishops to fulfil without further delay the long-standing command of Heaven, by consecrating with the bishops of the entire world, Holy Russia to your Immaculate Heart, as was requested and in the manner requested by you, on behalf of the Most Holy Trinity so long ago, and which has yet to be accomplished.
Immaculate Heart of Mary, you know how much suffering mankind would have avoided over the last 90 years if only one of the Popes during that time had heeded your request for the Consecration of Russia. Mother of God, you and your Divine Son alone know what a frightful chastisement is now hanging over the heads of mankind if the Popes, for whatever inadequate human reasons, still refuse your request. If it depends upon them, they are liable to prevaricate, although you told us one hundred years ago how much that would make them suffer. Mother of God, your Divine Son can refuse you nothing that you ask of Him. He wishes the Consecration to depend on you, because He wishes your Immaculate Heart to be honoured as the source of the Consecration’s triumph. Holy Mother of God, most humbly upon our knees we beg of you to obtain those graces needed by the Pope to perform the Consecration.
Meanwhile before you here today, we commend, we entrust, and we do whatever lies within our own power, to consecrate Russia to your Immaculate Heart , not because we can remotely take the place of the Pope and the bishops of the whole world, but because we wish to honour your requests as far as we can. If only Holy Russia became Catholic once more, the Eastern Church might resurrect the Western Church, presently devastated by materialism and atheism. (Emp. mine) Mother of God, we commend our own selves also to your protection and to your all-powerful intercession with Our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings, but who is at the same time a Son who infinitely loves His Mother, and will do anything she asks. Beloved and Blessed Mother, we have not a shadow of doubt that in the end your Immaculate Heart will triumph.
It stands to reason that Almighty God would not leave mankind without some simple means to turn back towards Him, if it wanted. It also stands to reason, if men offended Him too much, that He would entrust these means to His Mother. Hence Fatima. Every one of us must pray the Rosary and practise the devotion of the First Saturdays, so that at last the churchmen fulfil her simple request.
Kyrie eleison.

DZ PLEASE · « **Reply #35 on:** October 21, 2017, 12:15:15 PM »

"... The Eastern Church..."

...

:-X

The apparent intent, profound distrust of some of these persons aside, seems well meaning otherwise.

JPaul · « **Reply #36 on:** October 21, 2017, 12:32:10 PM »

Quote from: GJC on October 21, 2017, 10:22:39 AM

I would ask the bishop if he agrees with St. Bellarmine?

...for men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple , and condemn him as a heretic. St. Bellarmine

Schismatic can be substituted for heretic because it is of faith that neither will find life everlasting.

I would suggest that he does not agree, as he refuses to see Francis for what his external works judge him to be. That is a much more important question than Vladimir Putin's religious classification.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #37 on:** October 21, 2017, 12:45:58 PM »

glc:

Quote

Yes, 100%. Not only do I declare it on this forum, but to the WHOLE world. Putin is not a Catholic.

Wow, this is serious. glc does not merely confine his remarks to this little forum. He declares them to the whole world!!!!!!!!
This is serious stuff. The earth is teetering on its axis. Now if dz comes along and makes a similar declaration, it could mean the end of Western Civilization as we know it. :o

DZ PLEASE · « **Reply #38 on:** October 21, 2017, 12:54:03 PM »

It's like "Noel Coward" going on about scene chewing...

John XYZ · « **Reply #39 on:** October 21, 2017, 02:34:36 PM »

It is clear that by the expression "Holy Russia", the 4 bishops wanted to say to the Blessed Virgin Mary : "Please, bring this country (Russia), by its natural inclination to religion, into the Catholic Church." A little bit like Pius XII said when he consecrated the world to the Virgin Mary : "Mother of God, please bring back Russians, who have a special devotion to You, into the Catholic Church."

The term "holy" doesn't express holiness in a Catholic sense (in that situation), it expresses a natural disposition of Russian people to religion. If you read the text of the Consecration, the meaning is really clear : "If only Holy Russia became Catholic once more, the Eastern Church might resurrect the Western Church, presently devastated by materialism and atheism." (Bishop Williamson, Fatima Consecration – II).

In other words, we could say : "If Russia used its natural inclination to religion to defend and follow the Catholic Church, the Eastern Church might resurrect the Western Church, presently devastated by materialism and atheism."

If Bishop Williamson believed that Russia is "holy" in the Catholic sense (he certainly doesn't), he would not pray so much for the conversion of Russia. If a country is "holy" in the Catholic sense, it doesn't need to convert. It's common sense! Therefore, it would be illogical to say that in this case, Bishop Williamson used the term 'holy' in a Catholic sense.

　
Also, Bishop Williamson doesn't believe a false religion can be a source of holiness. He made a conference in France, just a few days ago and he firmly condemned the errors of the Second Vatican in "Lumen Gentium".

　
Here are some of the statements of the good Bishop who express clearly his positions on the errors of the Second Vatican Council and the necessity of the conversion of Russia :

　
Bishop Williamson : the necessity of following the one true Church

"Our Divin Lord said : " I am the Way, the Truth and the Life " and he said : " I am God and if you want to get to Heaven, you must believe in Me". And that's not outrageous and Our Lord prove it wasn't outrageous by dying on the cross. He died a horrible death on the cross to prove his love for us human beings. He loved us even unto death and if we want to go to His Heaven then, we need to believe him and do what he says which is to believe, to be baptized and to be a member of His Church. And he got a right to say that because he's God." (Bishop Williamson, Window On The World part 1, starts at 10:31)

"the way to be happy for Eternity is to die in the arms of the Catholic Religion, in the arms of the Catholic Church." (Bishop Williamson, Window On The World part 1, starts at 9:50)

"if Eternity in Heaven is salvation, then you have to go through Our Lord Jesus Christ who was the one and the only incarnate God, the one only time God took human nature, become human being in order to die on the cross and open Heaven for souls (Bishop Williamson, Window On The World part 1, starts at 9:51)

Bishop Williamson : Russia need to be converted

"But if the Consecration [of Russia] is done, then the situation changes. And it's very possible, that's the moment when the Russians become Catholic, without becoming Latin, they will become Catholic without becoming Latin. The Latin form of Catholicism is not the only form of Catholicism. But the Russian Orthodox will be purged from whatever is schismatic and heretic in it and then it may well be, will lead, Russia will lead a religious revival in [...] the humiliated and chastised West." (Bishop Richard Williamson - Remembrance Sunday mass, starts at 27:46)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9FbVQTNuYo

Nadir · « **Reply #40 on:** October 21, 2017, 02:48:30 PM »

Quote from: DZ PLEASE on October 21, 2017, 12:15:15 PM

"... The Eastern Church..."

...

:-X

If only Holy Russia became Catholic once more,
it would then be the Eastern Church ...

klasG4e · « **Reply #41 on:** October 21, 2017, 04:53:21 PM »

I am surprised to say the least at your mind reading ability GJC, especially if you are an educated Catholic. Unlike you, I dare not make any claim to KNOW what the state of Vladimir Putin's soul is in, nor any other person's soul on this Earth is in other than my very own.

I'd be interested to know if you can state on this forum any SSPX priest or SSPX bishop or any resistance priest or bishop who would openly declare to the whole world like yourself that Vladimir Putin's soul is presently in the state of mortal sin. The Church informs us that we are not even supposed to go around stating someone, other than perhaps Judas and, of course, the fallen angels, are in hell. (The children of Fatima, for example, saw many souls falling into hell, but even if they identified any of them which I doubt they did, they certainly would not be free to pass that information on to us.)

As far as I can ascertain Putin received a valid baptism, one recognized for its validity by the Roman Catholic Church. As I think we all know, sanctifying grace is gained by baptism and only lost by mortal sin.

There are 3 things, of course, which are necessary to make a sin mortal. First, the matter must be grave, something very important. (Being a schismatic fills the bill!) Second, the individual must be mindful of the serious wrong. That is to say, he must have full knowledge and reflection or attention, and know that what he does is seriously wrong. Third, the individual must fully consent to it. As one can readily see, two of the necessary elements for a sin to be mortal have to do with a person's state of mind. I would submit that there is absolutely no way short of some divine revelation given directly to us from God or via another with God's permission that we can KNOW that Vladimir Putin's soul is in the state of mortal sin. For goodness sake, even angels can't read a person's mind unless God were to allow them to! (Has God allowed you to read Mr. Putin's mind, to scan as it were his interior forum?) And if you do not know the interior state of Mr. Putin's mind then you are not in any position to declare/judge him to be in the state of mortal sin.

Matthew 7: 1-3 "Judge not, that you may not be judged, For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?" We are simply not free to pass judgment on another person's interior forum, his subjective state of mind and thus we are not free to simply go around declaring whether someone is in the state of mortal sin or not.

St Ignatius · « **Reply #42 on:** October 21, 2017, 04:58:11 PM »

Quote from: John XYZ on October 21, 2017, 02:34:36 PM

It is clear that by the expression "Holy Russia", the 4 bishops wanted to say to the Blessed Virgin Mary : "Please, bring this country (Russia), by its natural inclination to religion, into the Catholic Church." A little bit like Pius XII said when he consecrated the world to the Virgin Mary : "Mother of God, please bring back Russians, who have a special devotion to You, into the Catholic Church."

The term "holy" doesn't express holiness in a Catholic sense (in that situation), it expresses a natural disposition of Russian people to religion. If you read the text of the Consecration, the meaning is really clear : "If only Holy Russia became Catholic once more, the Eastern Church might resurrect the Western Church, presently devastated by materialism and atheism." (Bishop Williamson, Fatima Consecration – II).

In other words, we could say : "If Russia used its natural inclination to religion to defend and follow the Catholic Church, the Eastern Church might resurrect the Western Church, presently devastated by materialism and atheism."

If Bishop Williamson believed that Russia is "holy" in the Catholic sense (he certainly doesn't), he would not pray so much for the conversion of Russia. If a country is "holy" in the Catholic sense, it doesn't need to convert. It's common sense! Therefore, it would be illogical to say that in this case, Bishop Williamson used the term 'holy' in a Catholic sense.

　
Also, Bishop Williamson doesn't believe a false religion can be a source of holiness. He made a conference in France, just a few days ago and he firmly condemned the errors of the Second Vatican in "Lumen Gentium".

　
Here are some of the statements of the good Bishop who express clearly his positions on the errors of the Second Vatican Council and the necessity of the conversion of Russia :

　
Bishop Williamson : the necessity of following the one true Church

"Our Divin Lord said : " I am the Way, the Truth and the Life " and he said : " I am God and if you want to get to Heaven, you must believe in Me". And that's not outrageous and Our Lord prove it wasn't outrageous by dying on the cross. He died a horrible death on the cross to prove his love for us human beings. He loved us even unto death and if we want to go to His Heaven then, we need to believe him and do what he says which is to believe, to be baptized and to be a member of His Church. And he got a right to say that because he's God." (Bishop Williamson, Window On The World part 1, starts at 10:31)

"the way to be happy for Eternity is to die in the arms of the Catholic Religion, in the arms of the Catholic Church." (Bishop Williamson, Window On The World part 1, starts at 9:50)

"if Eternity in Heaven is salvation, then you have to go through Our Lord Jesus Christ who was the one and the only incarnate God, the one only time God took human nature, become human being in order to die on the cross and open Heaven for souls (Bishop Williamson, Window On The World part 1, starts at 9:51)

Bishop Williamson : Russia need to be converted

"But if the Consecration [of Russia] is done, then the situation changes. And it's very possible, that's the moment when the Russians become Catholic, without becoming Latin, they will become Catholic without becoming Latin. The Latin form of Catholicism is not the only form of Catholicism. But the Russian Orthodox will be purged from whatever is schismatic and heretic in it and then it may well be, will lead, Russia will lead a religious revival in [...] the humiliated and chastised West." (Bishop Richard Williamson - Remembrance Sunday mass, starts at 27:46)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9FbVQTNuYo

Thank you John XYZ, you have resonated my thoughts almost "to a T..." I wish I had a better ability to articulate my thoughts concisely.

I believe most members here are not going to whole heartily agree with your assessment, but as for me, I agree completely with you...

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #43 on:** October 21, 2017, 09:32:57 PM »

Quote from: klasG4e on October 21, 2017, 04:53:21 PM

The Church informs us that we are not even supposed to go around stating someone, other than perhaps Judas and, of course, the fallen angels, are in hell.

As far as I can ascertain Putin received a valid baptism, one recognized for its validity by the Roman Catholic Church. As I think we all know, sanctifying grace is gained by baptism and only lost by mortal sin.

re: The Church informs us that we are not even supposed to go around stating someone, other than perhaps Judas and, of course, the fallen angels, are in hell.

That keeps being repeated by people in the Novus Ordo, but there is no such teaching. Everyone who dies outside of the Church is in hell.

The Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, under Pope St. Pius X, in 1907, in answer to a question as to whether Confucius could have been saved, wrote:

“It is not allowed to affirm that Confucius was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.

Moreover, Putin is no different than all baptized heretics, he is a heretic and outside of the Church where there is no sanctifying grace. Putin is no different than Billy Graham or any other "conservative Christian, ALL on the road to hell.

DZ PLEASE · « **Reply #44 on:** October 21, 2017, 09:41:24 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 21, 2017, 09:32:57 PM

re: The Church informs us that we are not even supposed to go around stating someone, other than perhaps Judas and, of course, the fallen angels, are in hell.

That keeps being repeated by people in the Novus Ordo, but there is no such teaching. Everyone who dies outside of the Church is in hell.

The Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, under Pope St. Pius X, in 1907, in answer to a question as to whether Confucius could have been saved, wrote:

“It is not allowed to affirm that Confucius was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.

Moreover, Putin is no different than all baptized heretics, he is a heretic and outside of the Church where there is no sanctifying grace. Putin is no different than Billy Graham or any other "conservative Christian, ALL on the road to hell.

Author Topic: ELEISON COMMENTS #535 PUTIN SPEAKS Oct. 18 A.D. 2017 (Read 4438 times)

Maria Regina

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DZ PLEASE

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klasG4e

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Neil Obstat

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St Ignatius

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DZ PLEASE

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JPaul

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hollingsworth

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DZ PLEASE

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John XYZ

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Nadir

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klasG4e

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St Ignatius

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Last Tradhican

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DZ PLEASE

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