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Offline Matthew

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Eleison Comments - 477
« on: September 04, 2016, 02:25:28 AM »
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  • Mary’s Glory

    All glory Mary seeks is for her Son.
    For her own self she seeks no glory, none.

    Between the Catholic Feasts of Our Lady’s Assumption into Heaven (August 15) and Our Lady’s Birthday (September 8), it may be a good moment to reflect upon a major Protestant objection to the devotion of Catholics to Our Lady, namely, all attention, honour and prayer directed towards Our Lady is so much taken away from Our Lord – he alone is our Redeemer, so to him alone should all our devotion, worship and prayer be directed. The following quotation, coming as from Our Lord himself, puts many such objections in a different perspective:?—

    The human eye cannot stare at the sun, whereas it has no difficulty in gazing upon the moon. The spiritual eye of the human soul cannot behold the perfection of God as it is in itself, but it can look upon the perfection of Mary. Mary is like the moon with regard to the sun. By its light she is lit up, and that light is what she reflects upon yourselves, but she softens that light in a kind of spiritual mist by which it becomes bearable to behold for your limited nature. That is why for centuries it is her that I have been putting forward as a model for all of you that I wish to have as brothers, precisely as children of Mary, like myself.

    She is the Mother. How sweet it is for children to look upon their mother! I gave her to you for that reason, so that you would have a gentle Majesty to behold, splendid enough to seize and to hold your gaze but not so brilliant as to dazzle your sight. Only to souls chosen out by me for special reasons which you cannot dispute have I shown myself in all the brilliance of the God-Man, absolute Intelligence and Perfection. However, the gift of that vision had to be accompanied by another gift to make living souls capable of enduring such knowledge of me without being annihilated by it.

    Whereas all of you can look upon Mary. Not because she is like you, far from it! Her purity raises her so high th at I, her Son and her God, treat her with veneration. Her perfection is so great that all Paradise bows before her throne which bathes in the changeless smile and everlasting brilliance of Our Threeness. But this brilliance which permeates and imbues her more than it does any other creature of God is tempered by the purest veils of her stainless flesh through which she shines like a star, gathering together all of God’s light and spreading it around like a gentle illumination upon all his creatures.

    And then she is for ever your Mother. And she has all forms of the Mother’s kindness, making excuses and interceding for you and patiently leading you on. Great is Mary’s joy when she can say to a soul that loves her, “Love my Son.” Great is my own joy when I can say to a soul that loves me, “Love my Mother.” And greatest of all is our double joy when we see either a soul at my feet leaving me to go to my Mother, or one of you held in my Mother’s arms leaving he r to come to me. Because the Mother is jubilant when she can give to her Son more souls enamoured of her, and the Son is jubilant when he sees more souls loving his Mother. For when it comes to our glory neither of us seeks to overcome the other, the glory of each of us being complete in the glory of the other.

    That is why I say to you, “My child, love Mary. I give her to you. She loves you, and with nothing but the gentleness of her smile she will light up your existence.”

    If Catholics knew how to let her light shine through them, they would draw numberless souls towards her Son and towards God, as truly devout Protestants can only wish.

    Kyrie eleison.
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Eleison Comments - 477
    « Reply #1 on: September 04, 2016, 06:08:03 AM »
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  • "…coming as from Our Lord himself…"

    Whazatmean?

    That is a bold statement, speaking for Jesus Christ. Who is the source?


    Offline klasG4e

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    Eleison Comments - 477
    « Reply #2 on: September 04, 2016, 12:23:49 PM »
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  • I sure hope it's not Maria Valtorta, although perhaps not since -- thank heavens -- the third paragraph mentions God-Man instead of Man-God.

    http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2014/04/bp-williamson-and-midrash-of-man-god.html

    http://www.traditioninaction.org/bkreviews/A_042_Valtorta.htm

    Offline Mark 79

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    Eleison Comments - 477
    « Reply #3 on: September 04, 2016, 05:09:16 PM »
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  • "…to reflect upon a major Protestant objection to the devotion of Catholics to Our Lady…"

    The so-called "Bible believers" don't even believe Luke 1:26-55. Even when the plain language of the Bible says "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women" and "behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed," the Prots revile her.



    Judging from the Protestant denial here, I can only imagine if I introduced apologetics on the point "…coming as from Our Lord himself…." They'd probably introduce a special edition Jack Chick comic book to revile Our Blessed Mother even more.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments - 477
    « Reply #4 on: September 04, 2016, 06:16:29 PM »
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  • Quote

    The human eye cannot stare at the sun, whereas it has no difficulty in gazing upon the moon. The spiritual eye of the human soul cannot behold the perfection of God as it is in itself, but it can look upon the perfection of Mary. Mary is like the moon with regard to the sun. By its light she is lit up, and that light is what she reflects upon yourselves, but she softens that light in a kind of spiritual mist by which it becomes bearable to behold for your limited nature. That is why for centuries it is her that I have been putting forward as a model for all of you that I wish to have as brothers, precisely as children of Mary, like myself.

    She is the Mother. How sweet it is for children to look upon their mother! I gave her to you for that reason, so that you would have a gentle Majesty to behold, splendid enough to seize and to hold your gaze but not so brilliant as to dazzle your sight. Only to souls chosen out by me for special reasons which you cannot dispute have I shown myself in all the brilliance of the God-Man, absolute Intelligence and Perfection. However, the gift of that vision had to be accompanied by another gift to make living souls capable of enduring such knowledge of me without being annihilated by it.

    Whereas all of you can look upon Mary. Not because she is like you, far from it! Her purity raises her so high that I, her Son and her God, treat her with veneration. Her perfection is so great that all Paradise bows before her throne which bathes in the changeless smile and everlasting brilliance of Our Threeness. But this brilliance which permeates and imbues her more than it does any other creature of God is tempered by the purest veils of her stainless flesh through which she shines like a star, gathering together all of God’s light and spreading it around like a gentle illumination upon all his creatures.


    Our Lady is like the moon because she does not shine with her own light, but rather reflects the dazzling light of the sun which is too intense for us to gaze upon directly.  Her softened light is bearable for us to gaze upon from our limited nature.

    At Fatima, through her intercession, even the direct sight of the sun was softened for us to look at directly.  That is called "the miracle of the sun."

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments - 477
    « Reply #5 on: September 04, 2016, 06:34:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mark 79
    "…coming as from Our Lord himself…"

    Whazatmean?

    That is a bold statement, speaking for Jesus Christ. Who is the source?


    The source is the author, while He attempts to provide a simple lesson for his readers.

    He hopes to not appear reckless or brash, but instead to provide a little poetic color by way of the English language, which is his own native and mother tongue.

    Quote from: +Williamson

    Her perfection is so great that all Paradise bows before her throne which bathes in the changeless smile and everlasting brilliance of Our Threeness.


    Question: Is he making himself part of the Blessed Trinity?  
    Answer: No, for he has pretext the passage with the notice that this can be seen "as from Our Lord" -- but without him making any claim to be an inspired prophet or something.

    This is a literary device by which the Bishop is speaking to us in a manner that would appear to be Our Lord speaking to us, from the standpoint of grammar and diction.  

    A simile is a rhetorical or poetic comparison including use of "like" or "as," whereas a metaphor is also a comparison but without the use of "like" or "as."  This does not mean that a metaphor proclaims an ontological identity between the things compared.  

    Example:
    "The moon was a ghostly galleon, tossed upon cloudy seas."  By this metaphor the poet does not say that suddenly the moon has become a ship and ceases therefore to be the moon.  Nor does he imply that the moon must literally be adrift in the water of a sea, contrary to popular belief. (Although flat-earthers might disagree!)  

    +Williamson is using poetic language as a teaching device, for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.  He's trying to be creative and charming.  I think he doesn't fail, but perhaps my view is a bit biased.  

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments - 477
    « Reply #6 on: September 04, 2016, 06:40:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mark 79

    That is a bold statement, speaking for Jesus Christ. Who is the source?


    The priest offering Holy Mass acts in persona Christi, in the person of Christ.  He confects the Sacraments not with his own power but with the power of Our Lord. And the Bishop is one who has been ordained to the highest priesthood, the fullness of orders.

    So it's not out of character for any bishop to speak for Our Lord when giving instruction.
    Of course, if he's in error somehow, it can be an abuse of his charism, but what is there in this EC that is any kind of abuse?  He's giving the teaching of the Church about Our Lady.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments - 477
    « Reply #7 on: September 04, 2016, 06:47:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mark 79
    "…to reflect upon a major Protestant objection to the devotion of Catholics to Our Lady…"

    The so-called "Bible believers" don't even believe Luke 1:26-55. Even when the plain language of the Bible says "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women" and "behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed," the Prots revile her.



    Judging from the Protestant denial here, I can only imagine if I introduced apologetics on the point "…coming as from Our Lord himself…." They'd probably introduce a special edition Jack Chick comic book to revile Our Blessed Mother even more.


    When they proliferate their silly comic books, it just makes them look like spoiled children.

    One of the reasons for practicing the Five First Saturdays devotion is to make reparation for those who revile Our Blessed Mother, by ridicule and scorn, even sowing in the hearts of innocent children malice or contempt of the Blessed Virgin Mother of God.

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    Offline Domitilla

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    Eleison Comments - 477
    « Reply #8 on: September 04, 2016, 10:08:19 PM »
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  • The source for +Williamson's latest EC is  the June 27, 1943, entry in Maria Valtorta's, "Divine Dictations to Maria Valtorta" ("Notebooks):  "Gaze at the Soft Light of Mary".

    Offline Mark 79

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    « Reply #9 on: September 04, 2016, 10:14:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: Domitilla
    The source for +Williamson's latest EC is  the June 27, 1943, entry in Maria Valtorta's. "Divine Dictations to Maria Valtorta" ("Notebooks):  "Gaze at the Soft Light of Mary".


    Thank you for the reference.

    Offline klasG4e

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    « Reply #10 on: September 04, 2016, 11:23:53 PM »
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  • Domitilla
    Quote
    The source for +Williamson's latest EC is the June 27, 1943, entry in Maria Valtorta's, "Divine Dictations to Maria Valtorta" ("Notebooks): "Gaze at the Soft Light of Mary".


    Thank you very much Domitilla for the reference.  The actual entry may be found at https://www.scribd.com/doc/97408297/Divine-Dictations-to-Maria-Valtorta-1943-Notebooks  under the following listing in the table of contents:  27-Jun-1943 ? To Gaze at the Soft Light of Mary..................................................49

    Upon examination of same one can see slight variations in some of the wording compared to the wording in the current EC.

    God bless Bp. Williamson for all the good work he does.  That said, I am sorely distressed that this EC comes from Maria Valtorta.  I can certainly understand why His Lordship didn't wish to mention her.  See, for example, http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2014/04/bp-williamson-and-midrash-of-man-god.html
    and http://www.traditioninaction.org/bkreviews/A_042_Valtorta.htm



    Offline hollingsworth

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    Eleison Comments - 477
    « Reply #11 on: September 05, 2016, 10:31:51 AM »
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  • klas:
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    That said, I am sorely distressed that this EC comes from Maria Valtorta.  I can certainly understand why His Lordship didn't wish to mention her.


    Maria Valtorta is a blessed and genuine visionary.  Though I agree with Klas most of thle time, he is dead wrong about Valtorta, as are a number of you on this forum.  I read the Bible every day.  I read the Poem every day, as well. The woman was inspired by God.

    Offline klasG4e

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    « Reply #12 on: September 05, 2016, 02:55:10 PM »
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  • hollingsworth
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    Maria Valtorta is a blessed and genuine visionary.  Though I agree with Klas most of thle time, he is dead wrong about Valtorta, as are a number of you on this forum.  I read the Bible every day.  I read the Poem every day, as well. The woman was inspired by God.


    Any idea why the EC was not transparent in not disclosing who in the world this writing came from?  Why would this bishop who so courageously exposed the lie of the h0Ɩ0h0αx have to keep Valtorta's identity under wraps?  Perhaps, the good bishop will let us know with the next EC.  I hope he does since the MV cat is already out of the bag anyway.

    BTW, why do you think liberties were taken in modifying the words of MV by the good bishop?  No need to reply -- I'm just curious though.

    Now please allow me to paraphrase you Holly -- Though I agree with Hollingsworth most of thle time, he is dead wrong about Valtorta, as are a number of you on this forum.


    Offline hollingsworth

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    « Reply #13 on: September 05, 2016, 07:58:20 PM »
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  • klas:
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    Any idea why the EC was not transparent in not disclosing who in the world this writing came from?  Why would this bishop who so courageously exposed the lie of the h0Ɩ0h0αx have to keep Valtorta's identity under wraps?  Perhaps, the good bishop will let us know with the next EC.  I hope he does since the MV cat is already out of the bag anyway.


    Oh, I can think of a couple of reasons.  Maybe he wanted the already prejudiced reader to get through the entire EC w/o immediately laying it aside and ignoring its valid points  Or, perhaps, he was not interested in generating more unnecessary confrontational behavior among some.

    Offline hollingsworth

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    « Reply #14 on: September 06, 2016, 09:18:55 AM »
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  • klas:
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    BTW, why do you think liberties were taken in modifying the words of MV by the good bishop?


    What words were modified by the bishop?  Since I can't go directly to the passage from MV in question, I can't comment on how its words might have been modified.