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Author Topic: Eleison Comments  (Read 10397 times)

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Eleison Comments
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2015, 05:34:45 PM »
2Vermont,
Quote
IT appears he did not sign Dignitatis Humanae and Guadium Et Specs.  I am surprised that he did sign Lumen Gentium.


There is apparently some evidence, which is not SSPX sourced, to dispute the number of docuмents signed, but even if he did not sign those two, he did sign the others, and some of the others were the worst, Lumen Gentium and Sacrosanctum Concilium being grave offenders.
The basis for the docuмent on Ecuмenism was the heterodoxy of Lumen Gentium. It sits front and center in the New Religion.

A plain reading of the docuмents shows them to be such, that nothing short of a change in wording to remove the ambiguity would have been an acceptable assurance.  That should have been each Catholic Bishop's requirement for signing. Each Bishop who signed them failed in their duty to the Church and made what has happened to the Holy Church possible.





Eleison Comments
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2015, 06:23:24 PM »
Quote from: Wessex
As always, the reality is not so black and white. There were others who stood up to "the unfaithful Church authorities". They must always be acknowledged and remembered. And the archbishop wavered to the extent that an agreement was always a strong probability during the twenty years of his 'rebellion'. He would have been        able to seduce the faithful far more than the current bursar-bishop into accepting a reconciliation.

Bp. W is a good politician and like his mentor can always draw a crowd that hunger for clear concise messages. But perfect truth is an inconvenient spoiler that stalks the minds of the more inquisitive; the last refuge for solid traditionalists that see so many purveyors of truth come and go. The Society's demise started as soon as it was conceived because it was not a strictly breakaway movement. We have witnessed another example of mankind's liberal trend slowly overwhelming conservatism. This is a classical script; the bishop did not invent it. Scene one of this drama opens with dissidents resisting authority; the final scene ends with dissidents yielding to same authority leaving a smaller remnant re-enacting their own drama. Plus ca change.


Why Wessex you amaze me - I almost find myself in complete agreement with you except that perhaps you were hinting at it and did not fully say so or perhaps you really are unaware of the technique (but judging by the careful phrasing) I think you do know.

It's no secret that from the beginning the SSPX looked like a Trojan Horse in the Traditional Camp. Several old time SSPX priests told me that getting the Archbishop to "muscle up" to Rome was like pulling teeth. They suggested the same scenario as Wessex but with a twist:

Thesis: New Mass and Vatican II,
Antithesis: resistance - but the Antithesis - SSPX - (Rome controlled) which effectively neutralized Tradition.

Now we see the Hegelian philosophy: (So it takes several decades - these guys can wait)

Synthesis: New Mass, Old Mass, Vatican 2 (with reservations - which in the practical order means FSSP = tacit acceptance) The Fellayite solution.

So this in turn produces:

Another antithesis "resistance" - but from the beginning we see mayhem and disorder. The Pfeifferites will have nothing to do with the Williamsonites - reminds me of the SSPX and the SSPV - end result ? Neutralization of both camps.

Look at the new SSPX website for the UK district. Remember Fr. King and his celebrated "departure" ? Look at his Mass schedule at Respice Stellam and compare that with the SSPX. Fr. King offers Mass at 9.30 am on Sundays in Bingley (Yorkshire) and the SSPX does too but at 5.00 pm. He offers Mass in Liverpool at 5.00 pm and so does the SSPX at the same time but only 2 Sundays a month - so where do you think a self-respecting Trad would go to Mass - every week ? In both cases to Fr. king. Add to this the fact that the SSPX has closed its priory in the north of England which effectively leaves the territory open to Fr. King.

From this anecdotal evidence I would say the "Resistance" is a sham and those who believed in it were well and truly hood-winked ! The only thing that is being "resisted" by the "Resistance" is the other parts of the "Resistance". I should think that's exactly where Rome and + Fellay would want them to be - divide et impera ! Now they have drawn the "resisters" out into the open it takes very little to isolate them.

Add to this mix the fact that + Williamson has said more than once that if Francesco called he would come running (sentiments echoed by + Faure) whose side are these people on - which camp are they really in ?

I'm only asking questions - I'm not attacking anybody but a few facts and figures have me wondering about the "State of Denmark". It certainly leaves me wondering.


Eleison Comments
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2015, 06:45:58 PM »
Quote
From this anecdotal evidence I would say the "Resistance" is a sham and those who believed in it were well and truly hood-winked ! The only thing that is being "resisted" by the "Resistance" is the other parts of the "Resistance". I should think that's exactly where Rome and + Fellay would want them to be - divide et impera ! Now they have drawn the "resisters" out into the open it takes very little to isolate them.


Ouch!  That hurts.  But you're right.  The so-called "resistance" is basically a sham.  The resisters resist other parts of the "Resistance."  That's my take exactly.  The "Resistance" came into being without a clear or adequate definition of what it really was, or presently is.  But that doesn't take away from the fact the conciliar church is toxic to our faith, being essentially heretical and apostate....does it?  The sham of "resistance" does not give more legitimacy to the Fellay-led sspx... does it?

Eleison Comments
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2015, 07:30:16 PM »
Quote from: hollingsworth
Quote
From this anecdotal evidence I would say the "Resistance" is a sham and those who believed in it were well and truly hood-winked ! The only thing that is being "resisted" by the "Resistance" is the other parts of the "Resistance". I should think that's exactly where Rome and + Fellay would want them to be - divide et impera ! Now they have drawn the "resisters" out into the open it takes very little to isolate them.


Ouch!  That hurts.  But you're right.  The so-called "resistance" is basically a sham.  The resisters resist other parts of the "Resistance."  That's my take exactly.  The "Resistance" came into being without a clear or adequate definition of what it really was, or presently is.  But that doesn't take away from the fact the conciliar church is toxic to our faith, being essentially heretical and apostate....does it?  The sham of "resistance" does not give more legitimacy to the Fellay-led sspx... does it?


I might quibble with some of the characterization but essentially we are in agreement. Which begs the question why does + Williamson play the devil's advocate with Francesco ?

Eleison Comments
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2015, 08:44:23 PM »
curioustrad:
Quote
Which begs the question why does + Williamson play the devil's advocate with Francesco ?


You must think that I will know exactly what you're asking.  Maybe I should.  But, frankly, I'm not certain what you mean by "devil's advocate" here.  Are you asking, by chance,  does H.E. give the benefit of the doubt to Pope Francis, or something along that line?   :confused1: