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Offline SeanJohnson

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Eleison Comments 308:
« on: June 08, 2013, 07:24:28 AM »
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  • Number CCCVIII (308)
        
    8 June 2013
    HORRIBLE FALL -- I
    The fall of the Society of St Pius X from what it was under Archbishop Lefebvre between 1970 and 1991 to what it has become over the last, say, 15 years, is little short of horrible. In a brief series let us see firstly why the horror is normal in the poor world around us, because to understand is to forgive, and we are all in need of forgiveness; secondly let us face the horror, not in order to be discouraged but on the contrary in order to gird our loins for worse almost certainly to come; and thirdly let us see what we can do to gird our loins, because beneath God’s Heaven he cannot have left us with nothing that we can do (but in this connection it is important not to pour into the sand the little water that we have). Let us begin with three fine Catholic minds taking the measure of our age, to see why horror is today the norm.

    In his great Encyclical letter of 1884 on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, Pope Leo XIII marks how its evil principles advance from (#13) disregarding to (#14) injuring to (#15) destroying the Catholic Church, and then from (#16) the ruin of all positive religions to (#17) the ruin of all natural religion to (#18) the ruin of great natural truths such as God’s Creation and Providence and the immortality of the soul. In the 21st century we have, logically, gone further still, namely to the ruin of the very notion of truth. Minds have been turned into mush, even the minds of Popes, Cardinals and Bishops.

    In his great Encyclical letter of 1907 on Modernism, Pope St Pius X saw clearly the same ruin of all truth and thought by the modernists. It is beneath the dignity of Popes to shout, but in Pascendi Pius X uses the strongest expressions available to him to castigate the mind-rot by which the modernists rot out the Catholic Faith. In so many words he says that modernism is the end of the line. His dramatic warning obtained for the Church a reprieve of half a century, but with Vatican II the Faith-rot that he had flung out of the Church was by John XXIII and Paul VI made official doctrine within the Church ! If Popes lose their minds, how should mere Superiors not do so?

    A third Catholic mind, measuring the havoc wrought upon Catholic doctrine by Vatican II, was that of Romano Amerio, an Italian layman whose analysis of modern errors, Iota Unum, was highly praised by Archbishop Lefebvre. At one point Amerio says (could somebody find me the reference ?) that if things continue on the same path as now, eventually it will become impossible to speak or write any more, all that will remain is to keep silent ! This may seem unimaginable, but only recently a very good commentator in the USA, Dr Paul Craig Roberts, almost stopped writing, because it had seemed to him that there was no longer any public able or willing to think.

    Truly, in this present dress rehearsal for the Antichrist, if these days were not shortened, as Our Lord says (Mt. XXIV, 22), we could all of us lose our minds and our faith. Then who may still feel inclined to throw the first stone at a Pope or Bishop today losing his mind ?

    However, while Our Lord forbids us to judge-condemn (Mt. VII, 1), because God alone has that perfect knowledge of all the circuмstances which is necessary if one is to judge without error, at the same time Our Lord commands us to judge-discern between true shepherds and mercenaries, or between sheep and wolves in sheeps’ clothing (Mt. VII, 15). Such is our responsibility as Catholics, and that is why we will soon take another look at the horror now taking place within the Society of St Pius X.

    Kyrie eleison.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #1 on: June 08, 2013, 07:35:19 AM »
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  • Very timely that His Lordship has decided upon a series tracing the recent decomposition of the SSPX.

    I am in possession of some English-language sermons of Archbishop Lefebvre.

    I bought them for $5 from my chapel bookstore, and downloaded them to my cd library in the van, and stupidly threw away the case which may or may not have indicated dates and place.

    Anyway, the theme of one of the sermons is "We must fight."  

    Archbishop Lefebvre says, "The Catholic life is a fight."  He is not just talking about spiritual combat, but also about fighting to keep our faith against the novelties of Conciliarism.

    It was quite a different message than the one communicated by GREC's diplomatic solution, and the PR firm's direction to cease-fire on the errors of Vatican II.

    No wonder the sermons of Archbishop Lefebvre have been suppressed.

    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #2 on: June 08, 2013, 10:06:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Very timely that His Lordship has decided upon a series tracing the recent decomposition of the SSPX.

    I am in possession of some English-language sermons of Archbishop Lefebvre.

    I bought them for $5 from my chapel bookstore, and downloaded them to my cd library in the van, and stupidly threw away the case which may or may not have indicated dates and place.

    Anyway, the theme of one of the sermons is "We must fight."  

    Archbishop Lefebvre says, "The Catholic life is a fight."  He is not just talking about spiritual combat, but also about fighting to keep our faith against the novelties of Conciliarism.

    It was quite a different message than the one communicated by GREC's diplomatic solution, and the PR firm's direction to cease-fire on the errors of Vatican II.

    No wonder the sermons of Archbishop Lefebvre have been suppressed.




    That's a good point, SeanJohnson, but what about the next
    level?  Hasn't this push for a 'deal' with modernist Rome included
    being at peace with B16's hermeneutic of continuity?  Hasn't it
    become acceptable for the Menzingen-denizens to accept Vat.II
    in the light of tradition and accept tradition in the light of Vat.II
    such that there is no conflict?

    Well, then why not accept the sermons of ABL in the light of the
    new Branding of the Society and accept the new Branding of the
    Society in the light of the sermons of ABL, such that there is no
    conflict?

    I mean, seeing as how the hermeneutic of continuity denies the
    principle of non-contradiction, the Branding of the Society saying
    that the Society can have no militancy anymore should be fine
    with the Society having the militancy of ABL, since there is to be
    no conflict.

    In the end it really doesn't matter.  "It's all good," as they say in
    the protestant 'churches'.  gαy rights are fine, non-denominational Christians are the norm, "Islam is a religion of
    peace,"
    and dogma itself can be equally held or discarded without
    shame such that someone claiming to be Catholic may well be
    found who personally doesn't think there is any Purgatory, or that
    hell may be real but "it's empty," or that "hell is not a place" and
    John-Paul II is now "blessed," and meanwhile, proclaiming in public
    that God does not exist is a legitimate exercise of 'free speech'.

    It's all good.



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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #3 on: June 08, 2013, 11:16:06 AM »
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  • .FWIW..



    ..There is an archived reference thread for this EC HERE.

    It also has a link to this thread.  Perhaps an exception can be
    made for ECs -- such that discussion can be allowed to proliferate
    here in the main forum where everyone seems to be happy doing
    so, while 87.625% +/- 12.375% of members do not so enjoy
    doing so in the Resistance Sermons sub-forum -- toward the
    edification of everyone, and also, some kind of organized index
    of ECs can exist to make them easy to find in the future?

    E.g., this is HORRIBLE FALL -- I, and if history is any teacher, there
    shalt most likely be a HORRIBLE FALL -- II, --III, --IV, --V and
    perhaps --VI (or even more) soon to come.  How will they be found
    when there are seventeen to thirty four other threads betwixt and
    between in the SSPX-Rome Agreement forum index page, not to
    mention the fact that every time a member posts one comment on
    this thread, the position of same in said index changes to the top
    of the list, such that there is no index chronological order to any of
    the threads, but only to the last post of each thread, which can
    change anytime, and sometimes changes several times in one day?



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    Offline Telesphorus

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #4 on: June 08, 2013, 12:23:47 PM »
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  • I'm glad he mentioned Humanum Genus


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #5 on: June 09, 2013, 02:27:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    I'm glad he mentioned Humanum Genus



    HAHAHA -- He'll wait for HORRIBLE FALL -- II, before he'll mention
    the name, Humanum Genus!

    Maybe that's when he'll mention the name, Telesphorus! HAHAHA


    [Hey, that's better than having to wait until Jan. 5th -- again!]



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    Offline Maizar

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #6 on: June 09, 2013, 03:00:00 AM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson

    A third Catholic mind, measuring the havoc wrought upon Catholic doctrine by Vatican II, was that of Romano Amerio, an Italian layman whose analysis of modern errors, Iota Unum, was highly praised by Archbishop Lefebvre. At one point Amerio says (could somebody find me the reference ?) that if things continue on the same path as now, eventually it will become impossible to speak or write any more, all that will remain is to keep silent ! This may seem unimaginable, but only recently a very good commentator in the USA, Dr Paul Craig Roberts, almost stopped writing, because it had seemed to him that there was no longer any public able or willing to think.

    Truly, in this present dress rehearsal for the Antichrist, if these days were not shortened, as Our Lord says (Mt. XXIV, 22), we could all of us lose our minds and our faith. Then who may still feel inclined to throw the first stone at a Pope or Bishop today losing his mind ?


    The SSPX and related movements stand in the way of international socialism. The USSR was the dress rehearsal for the near future where indeed it is better to remain silent or face a high probability of death in a labor camp. Those who at the present time are remaining silent may be the only ones to survive what is coming.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #7 on: June 09, 2013, 05:28:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: Maizar
    Quote from: SeanJohnson

    A third Catholic mind, measuring the havoc wrought upon Catholic doctrine by Vatican II, was that of Romano Amerio, an Italian layman whose analysis of modern errors, Iota Unum, was highly praised by Archbishop Lefebvre. At one point Amerio says (could somebody find me the reference ?) that if things continue on the same path as now, eventually it will become impossible to speak or write any more, all that will remain is to keep silent ! This may seem unimaginable, but only recently a very good commentator in the USA, Dr Paul Craig Roberts, almost stopped writing, because it had seemed to him that there was no longer any public able or willing to think.

    Truly, in this present dress rehearsal for the Antichrist, if these days were not shortened, as Our Lord says (Mt. XXIV, 22), we could all of us lose our minds and our faith. Then who may still feel inclined to throw the first stone at a Pope or Bishop today losing his mind ?


    The SSPX and related movements stand in the way of international socialism. The USSR was the dress rehearsal for the near future where indeed it is better to remain silent or face a high probability of death in a labor camp. Those who at the present time are remaining silent may be the only ones to survive what is coming.


    Those who die defending the Faith are martyrs and their salvation
    is at hand.  Those who compromise by silence make themselves
    dangerously close to becoming heretics and apostates.

    It's a rare breed who can act like a heretic and not become one.

    And what about all the scandal they would cause?  Scandals must
    needs come but woe to him by whom they come.



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    Offline Elsa Zardini

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #8 on: June 09, 2013, 06:25:47 AM »
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  • Matthew, I am sure you are very busy, but this by Neil Obstat is crucial today:

    "Perhaps an exception can be
    made for ECs -- such that discussion can be allowed to proliferate
    here in the main forum where everyone seems to be happy doing
    so, while 87.625% +/- 12.375% of members do not so enjoy
    doing so in the Resistance Sermons sub-forum -- toward the
    edification of everyone, and also, some kind of organized index
    of ECs can exist to make them easy to find in the future?"


    We will just tell people: go to cathinfo to "this forum/subforum, whatever", to understand the EC's 1 page, through the many additional "juicy" contributions by members of cathinfo. No wonder Monseñor Williamson was "forbidden" to continue with them. They know everything.

    Thank you Matthew! La Virgen nos proteja.

    Offline Elsa Zardini

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #9 on: June 09, 2013, 07:11:29 AM »
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  • Neil Obstat: "Those who compromise by silence make themselves
    dangerously close to becoming heretics and apostates"
    .

    And will go to Hell as explained by Father Cardozo in one of his public letters months ago.

    Offline Elsa Zardini

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #10 on: June 09, 2013, 07:49:45 AM »
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  • Today's noxious (to say the least) rumour: that everything is ok because Monseñor Williamsons' visit to Korea is in laportelatine and in DICI. LYE (whoever started it and whoever transmits it): it is in the sspx district of Korea. Last time Monseñor is mentioned in laportelatine: 2007, in DICI: centuries ago, except to remind us that he was expelled.

    Well explained "rumours" on purpose here:

     http://aveclimmaculee.blogspot.com/2013/06/comment-devons-nous-considerer-les.html


    Offline Maizar

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #11 on: June 09, 2013, 08:54:00 AM »
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  • Quote from: Elsa Zardini

    Neil Obstat: "Those who compromise by silence make themselves
    dangerously close to becoming heretics and apostates"
    .

    And will go to Hell as explained by Father Cardozo in one of his public letters months ago.


    The faith survived in the Soviet Union because of the ability of so many to go underground.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #12 on: June 10, 2013, 12:20:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elsa Zardini

    Matthew, I am sure you are very busy, but this by Neil Obstat is crucial today:

    "Perhaps an exception can be
    made for ECs -- such that discussion can be allowed to proliferate
    here in the main forum where everyone seems to be happy doing
    so, while 87.625% +/- 12.375% of members do not so enjoy
    doing so in the Resistance Sermons sub-forum -- toward the
    edification of everyone, and also, some kind of organized index
    of ECs can exist to make them easy to find in the future?"


    We will just tell people: go to cathinfo to "this forum/subforum, whatever", to understand the EC's 1 page, through the many additional "juicy" contributions by members of cathinfo. No wonder Monseñor Williamson was "forbidden" to continue with them. They know everything.

    Thank you Matthew! La Virgen nos proteja.


    It seems to me that with all the excellent discussion that has taken
    place on all the past ECs here in CI, that it's a shame they are not
    available for a most simple and easy-to-use access.  

    The so-called search feature on CI can't achieve the results you're
    looking for, for several reasons, so it's pretty much useless.

    Other search engines don't do a very good job either because of
    the way these posts are stored or something.  I have not found
    threads with the content I recall seeing because I don't have the
    precise combination of words, punctuation, spaces and numerals
    that the search engine needs, e.g., EC ccxcix (299) could be a no-
    show because it was "Eleison Comments 299" that you asked for,
    and not EC ccxcix (299).

    It seems to me that perhaps the ENEMIES might even be more
    able to find the correct EC discussion that a particular topic would
    relate to because they have bookmarked it or maybe they have
    found a way to more simply organize all the dats, for their own
    benefit.  

    This material could be for our own benefit, but if we can't find what
    we need, then what good is it?  



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    Offline Columba

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #13 on: June 10, 2013, 12:37:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Maizar
    The USSR was the dress rehearsal for the near future where indeed it is better to remain silent or face a high probability of death in a labor camp. Those who at the present time are remaining silent may be the only ones to survive what is coming.

    I doubt it. Democratic capitalism is far more effective at destroying the faith than Soviet communism. Our current system appears to be spiraling toward destruction, but the devil will likely try to keep it on life support for as long as possible.

    I think that the frequent alarms from the "alternative" press of impending sovietization are a stratagem for keeping us immobilized in a state of fear.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments 308:
    « Reply #14 on: June 11, 2013, 12:11:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: Maizar
    Quote from: Elsa Zardini

    Neil Obstat: "Those who compromise by silence make themselves
    dangerously close to becoming heretics and apostates"
    .

    And will go to Hell as explained by Father Cardozo in one of his public letters months ago.


    The faith survived in the Soviet Union because of the ability of so many to go underground.


    The faith survived in Japan for 3 centuries without the Mass or a priest.

    You can't expect everyone to line up for the same strategy.  There will
    be some who do that, and others who can't keep quiet.  Maybe they
    are moved by the Holy Ghost to speak out.  Scripture tells us infallibly
    that when our time comes, the Holy Ghost will tell us what to say.  
    Well, that would include Him telling us to say nothing or to say
    something -- but if it's something, He will tell us what the something
    is.  We will not be on our own.

    It will be what it will be.  In Spanish they say, "Qué será, será."

    The important thing is to keep the faith.  And you can't keep something
    that you don't have.  So the first thing is to learn the faith.  Then it's
    time to practice it, even without a priest, if necessary.


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