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Author Topic: Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson  (Read 22902 times)

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Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2012, 09:00:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: curioustrad
    I think you have all missed the typical British humor that this column contains. It is just brimming with satire and quite funny and definitely very clever:

    Read it with my pair of glasses:

    Eleison Comments Number CCLXXV (275)

    20 October 2012

    HOME READING

    When a while back these “Comments” advised readers to fortify their homes in case public bastions of the Faith might, due to the wickedness of the times, prove to be a thing of the past, a few readers wrote in to ask just how homes might be fortified. In fact various spiritual and material means of defending home and family have been suggested in previous numbers of the “Comments”, notably of course the Holy Rosary, but one fortification has gone unmentioned which I think I would try in place of television if I had a family to defend: reading aloud each night to the children selected chapters from Maria Valtorta’s Poem of the Man-God. (Of course the topic is controversial - but isn't it the Bishop's controversy that is leading to his ouster - he's poking fun at himself here loud and clear) And when we had reached the end of the five volumes in English, I imagine us starting again from the beginning, and so on, until all the children had left home ! (Yes you have to keep on saying that 2+2=4  until this kid i.e. himself leaves home - and even after)

    Yet the Poem has many and eloquent enemies. (Who doesn't around here ?) It consists of episodes from the lives of Our Lord and Our Lady, from her immaculate conception through to her assumption into Heaven, as seen in visions received, believably from Heaven, during the Second World War in northern Italy by Maria Valtorta, an unmarried woman of mature age lying in a sick-bed, permanently crippled from an injury to her back inflicted several years earlier. (Any one for a TV interview and an enforced stay in St. George's House ?) Notes included in the Italian edition (running to over four thousand pages in ten volumes) show how afraid she was of being deceived by the Devil, and many people are not in fact convinced that the Poem truly came from God. Let us look at three main objections.

    Firstly, the Poem was put on the Church’s Index of forbidden books in the 1950’s, (and so have I) which was before Rome (SSPX) went neo-modernist in the 1960’s. The reason given for the condemnation was the romanticizing and sentimentalizing of the Gospel events. Secondly the Poem is accused of countless doctrinal errors. Thirdly Archbishop Lefebvre objected to the Poem that its giving so many physical details of Our Lord’s daily life makes him too material, and brings us too far down from the spiritual level of the four Gospels. (Guess who else is about to be put on ice by writing another column for you)

    But firstly, how could the modernists have taken over Rome in the 1960’s, as they did, had they not already been well established within Rome in the 1950’s ? (As they are indeed in the Society and for a long time already) The Poem, like the Gospels (e.g. Jn.XI, 35, etc.), is full of sentiment but always proportional to its object. The Poem is for any sane judge, in my opinion, neither sentimental nor romanticized. (But who cares ? He's already been called a crank by the "crow" and others within the SSPX !) Secondly, the seeming doctrinal errors are not difficult to explain, one by one, as is done by a competent theologian in the notes to be found in the Italian edition of the Poem. (Yes and the Fellay regime will explain away all the doctrinal problems of Vatcian II by the new notes in the 16 Council Texts that BXVI will pencil in this year of Faith) And thirdly, with all due respect to Archbishop Lefebvre, I would argue that modern man needs the material detail for him to believe again in the reality of the Gospels. Has not too much “spirituality” kicked Our Lord upstairs, so to speak, while cinema and television have taken over modern man’s sense of reality on the ground floor ? As Our Lord was true man and true God, so the Poem is at every moment both fully spiritual and fully material. (With all due respect to today's Superior General the SSPX has kicked Our Lord upstairs as well)

    From non-electronic reading of the Poem in the home (Excuse me but aren't you reading me now, here, on the internet, on your computer ? - This is the greatest satirical comment of them all) , I can imagine many benefits, besides the real live contact between parents reading and children listening. (With switched off computers as the SSPX superiors would dearly love me to stop writing and you reading) Children (You dear reader) soak in from their surroundings like sponges soak in water. From the reading of chapters of the Poem selected according to the children’s age, I can imagine almost no end to how much they could learn about Our Lord and Our Lady. And the questions they would ask ! (Aren't you going to start asking what the heck the SSPX bigwigs are up to with a sell out ?) And the answers that the parents would have to come up with ! (Howler !) I do believe the Poem could greatly fortify a home. (Dripping with sarcasm as we say in England)

    Kyrie eleison.



    It makes sense.  
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline rowsofvoices9

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #16 on: October 20, 2012, 11:41:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: magdalena
    And that, Ethelred, bring me back to my original post.  Let's compile a list of the best books out there.    


    Mystical City of God  - Ven Mary of Agreda
    Introduction to the Devout Life - St. Francis de Sales
    The Secret of the Rosary - St. Louis De Montfort
    True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin - St. Louis De Montfort
    The Secret of Mary - St. Louis De Montfort
    The Imitation of Christ - Thomas a Kempis
    The Story of a Soul - St. Therese of Lisieux
    The City of God - St. Augustine
    The Confessions of St. Augustine
    The Twelve Steps to Holiness and Salvation - St. Alphonsus de Liguori
    Preparation for Death - St. Alphonsus de Liguori
    Writings of the Church Fathers
    A Treatise on the Spiritual Life - St. Vincent Ferrer
    The Spiritual Exercises - St. Ignatius of Loyola
    My conscience compels me to make this disclaimer lest God judges me partly culpable for the errors and heresy promoted on this forum... For the record I support neither Sedevacantism or the SSPX.  I do not define myself as either a traditionalist or Novus


    Offline Maria Elizabeth

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #17 on: October 21, 2012, 12:20:02 AM »
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  • Quote from: rowsofvoices9
    Quote from: magdalena
    And that, Ethelred, bring me back to my original post.  Let's compile a list of the best books out there.    


    Mystical City of God  - Ven Mary of Agreda
    Introduction to the Devout Life - St. Francis de Sales
    The Secret of the Rosary - St. Louis De Montfort
    True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin - St. Louis De Montfort
    The Secret of Mary - St. Louis De Montfort
    The Imitation of Christ - Thomas a Kempis
    The Story of a Soul - St. Therese of Lisieux
    The City of God - St. Augustine
    The Confessions of St. Augustine
    The Twelve Steps to Holiness and Salvation - St. Alphonsus de Liguori
    Preparation for Death - St. Alphonsus de Liguori
    Writings of the Church Fathers
    A Treatise on the Spiritual Life - St. Vincent Ferrer
    The Spiritual Exercises - St. Ignatius of Loyola


    Also,
    * The Holy Bible, esp.
       - The New Testament
       - The Psalms
       - Proverbs
    * My Imitation of Christ

    These are great for adults.


    But how about also compiling a list of best books for children (i.e. a list of best books that parents can read and discuss with their children)?

    I can start this list:
    * The Holy Bible (Children's Bible)
    * The lives of the saints (Any suggestions for best authors?)
    * Aesop's Fables






    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #18 on: October 21, 2012, 05:08:29 AM »
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  • Quote from: curioustrad
    Quote from: Ethelred


    I'm not so sure you and some others here understood Bishop Williamson correctly. His EC isn't satirical. Of course he's usually saying something between the lines, too. But despite the possibility that there's some parallels between Bishop Williamson's fate and what he's writing about this and that, his suggestions are very solid again. Some people here in this thread should take him more seriously!


    Oh for sure he has a primary reading - exactly what the piece says - but there is a secondary reading and I'm sure it's not too far from what I wrote.

    I don't disagree with the primary reading in the slightest - I think the Valtorta has a huge amount of good in it and I have publicly spoken about this work even defending it when many thought I was joking.

    Once Bishop Williamson asked what should be done to wake up modern man to his spiritual realities and I responded openly "Read some of the Valtorta to him." They laughed at that but I was deadly serious.

    However, since he likes to be "unpredictable" I am certain he has the secondary reading I proposed (but I am not him). Do you really think he would pass up the opportunity of his last EC (possibly) in the SSPX and not stand everybody on their head ? Didn't he just say a few weeks ago how much he "loved the attention" ? I'm sure he does (in so far as he is a man and prone to things temporal) but as a man in pursuit of holiness (I think not). In the sense that attention brings opportunity to convince others of the truth then bring it on, in the sense he seeks personal fame... then you certainly don't know the man.

    Oh and as for satire - he has the wit of an Englishman and many people fail to distinguish the ancient arts that a schooling in the classics provide: hyperbole and satire amongst others.

    I was just saying this morning that most people need the humor of gutter TV to laugh, but satire is a humor most people today cannot understand.

    BTW if you want to get a handle on various readings to a text read a "theologo-novel" by Ratzinger those have many readings and none of them good.




    When I first read this new EC I was in a hurry, and it caught me by surprise, I
    must say.  I had thought I was having a bad dream (not really a nightmare, but
    one that is incomprehensible when you first wake up).

    I just now returned and thanks to this thread, I have been able to get a much
    better grasp of what +W has sent out in what might be his "last blast of the
    blasted bugler," EC cclxxv.



    Those are chilling words to contemplate.




    It seems to me that this is the gist of his message here.  We are living at a time
    when every day could be our last chance to prepare for the chastisement that
    looms over our heads.  Are we ready???

    Certainly a chastisement looms over his head, for this Tuesday 10-23 is his
    own starting line of "post-mortem" work.  Like any publisher with a "deadline,"
    certain things must be done before the "paper goes to press."  For after the
    inevitable has come to pass, what is done is done, and all you can change is
    the next issue, as it were.  Only in HIS case (and by extension, our own case)
    there might not be a 'next issue' to worry about!!

    What are we going to do?  His relentless message, as magnified by the posts in
    this thread, is that family reading time is so vitally important, especially for
    the little ones.  Can anyone imagine the enormity of the responsibility hanging
    over the heads of our small children these days??

    Please give pause to consider what they will perhaps face, and how they would
    be best prepared to face it!  What can we do about it?  

    We can all strive to promote the enduring value of reading good books written
    on paper, NOT relying on electronic media.  That is something that every one
    of us can do.  Look for ways of doing so.  You will find them.  

    In this age of uncertainty, the reading of books printed (or even handwritten, as
    the Apostles did!) on paper is THE ESSENTIAL SEED of civilization.  We cannot
    hope to be able to remember everything we need to remember without a
    written foundation.  Even if we are separated from our libraries, to start anew
    will require someone to start writing books again, and he will have a memory
    that is based on having had books to learn from, in the past.  Books are
    invaluable.

    I really appreciate the short list of books begun here, and I suppose this is
    as good a place to do it as any, even if it could be its own thread.  For this is
    the ACTION that H.E. is trying to inspire in us.

    I have a couple of suggestions, though.

    First off, the Story of a Soul by St. Therese of Lisieux is a wonderful item for the  
    list.  However, I might suggest first getting a copy of Mary Fabyan Windeatt's
    children's version, and reading THAT to the little ones first.  It is of much benefit
    for adults, as well.  Windeatt's style is not childish.  Her tone is respectful and
    vocabulary challenging.  The children will ask lots of questions about what
    certain words mean, and it is a great opportunity to instill a desire to learn the  
    joy of discovering definition.  Definition is at the heart of the truth.  Our modern
    Church has abandoned definition, in the traditional sense.  The Modernists have
    always spread the flithy LIE that a passion for RE-DEFINITION of words is some
    kind of a 'virtue' --- but they don't even have the same thing in mind when they
    say 'virtue' (!!)

    For Story of a Soul is difficult to read and understand.  There is a lot of detail that
    is missing, a lot of background that makes the whole thing hang together.  Please
    remember that the author did not write it thinking that anyone would ever read
    it like we do.  It was meant as personal letters to her own sisters, who already
    knew the background, and did not need to be reminded.  Windeatt provides all
    the background in marvelous detail, giving the reader everything that is needed
    to appreciate the full depth of the original text.

    I can say this with confidence because I have experienced it.  When I first tried
    to read the original, I was a bit perplexed how it could have been such a
    blockbuster in the first years of its publication, for so much made no sense to me.
    Then I wanted to share it with my own children, mostly because I had been told
    by trusted others that it is a great story for kids, and one that has been the
    start of many vocations and holy lives in the past century.  That's when I came
    across the Mary Fabyan Windeatt version, and I immediately recognized the
    value it offers.  I was able to read it to my little ones with great effect.  And then,
    once we had been through that, we undertook the original version, and they were
    most appreciative of the deeper understanding they found, as they would recall
    the background information they had learned from the Windeatt version, which
    opens the door to comprehension.  

    Another thing, it should be a practice for all Christian families to read from the
    New Testament every day.  This habit should form a lifetime routine.  It is the
    most basic lesson to teach children to last their lifetime, that reading for a few
    minutes (at least 3 minutes, but preferably 15 or more) every day from the
    Gospels of Our Lord and the other books really ought to be an appetite that
    makes us hungry, a hunger that can only be satisfied by reading the NT again.
    And to that end, I recommend most highly the Douay-Rheims version, for it
    not only is free of doctrinal errors (unlike the Poem of Valtorta!!), but it preserves
    the vocative "thee, thou, thine, thy" and such, which gives Scripture a sacred
    aspect and as anything else consecrated, "sets it apart from profane use."

    I would further recommend prayers with the family in Latin. The Our Father
    (Pater noster, qui es in coelis, sanctificetur nomen tuum...), the Hail Mary (Ave,
    Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecuм; benedictat tu...), the Apostles' Creed (Credo
    in Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, creatorem coeli et terrae...), the Glory Be
    (Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sacnto, sicut erat in principio et nunc et semper
    et in saecula saeculorum), are all essential knowledge for Catholics in the Roman
    Rite.  I typed these, above essentially from memory just now.  I would also add
    the names of the mysteries of the Rosary in Latin, and the Fatima Decade Prayer
    in Latin:

    Prex Decadis Rosarii

    O mi Iesu, dimitte nobis debita nostra, libera nos ab igne inferni, conduc in caelum
    omnes animas, praesertim illas quae maxime indigent (misericordia tua).

    Mysteria Sacratissimi Rosarii

    Mysteria Gaudiorum
    1o B. Maria Virgo ab Angelo salutatur.
    2o B. Maria Virgo Elisabeth visitat.
    3o Iesus Christus in Bethlehem nascitur.
    4o Iesus infans in templo praesentatur.
    5o Iesus puer in templo inter doctores invenitur.
     
    Mysteria Dolorum
    1o Iesus Christus, in horto orans, sanguinem sudat.
    2o Iesus Christus ad columnam flagellis caeditur.
    3o Iesus Christus spinis coronatur.
    4o Iesus Christus, morte condemnatus, Calvariae locuм, crucem baiulans,  
       petit.
    5o Iesus Christus, cruci affixus, coram Matre sua moritur.
     
    Mysteria Gloriae
    1o Resurrectio Iesu Christi.
    2o Ascensio Iesu Christi.
    3o Spiritus Sancti supra beatam Mariam Virginem et discipulos descensus.
    4o Assumptio beatae Mariae Virginis in caelum.
    5o Beatae Mariae Virginis coronatio itemque Angelorum et Sanctorum  
       gloria.
     

    These mystery names can be carried on an index card and read for the use
    of a Latin Rosary.  There are also the prayers at the end of the Rosary, all
    of which every true Roman Catholic should know by heart:

    Salve Regina  
    Salve, Regina, mater misericordiae; vita, dulcedo et spes nostra,  
    salve.  Ad te clamamus, exsules filii Hevae.  Ad te suspiramus, gementes  
    et flentes in hac lacrimarum valle.  Eia ergo, advocata nostra, illos  
    tuos misericordes oculos ad nos converte.  Et Iesum, benedictum fructum  
    ventris tui, nobis post hoc exsilium ostende.  O clemens, o pia, o  
    dulcis Virgo Maria.  
     
    V. Ora pro nobis, Sancta Dei Genetrix.  
    R. Ut digni efficiamur promissionibus Christi.

    Oratio
    Deus, cuius Unigenitus per vitam, mortem et resurrectionem suam nobis salutis
    aeternae praemia comparavit:  concede, quaesumus; ut, haec mysteria
    sanctissimo beatae Mariae Virginis Rosario recolentes, et imitemur quod
    continent, et quod promittunt, assequamur.  Per eundem Christum Dominum
    nostrum.  Amen.

    (That last one is the Collect from the CTLM Feast of the Holy Rosary, Oct. 7th.)




    Finally -- and many of you may think this is a "bit much," but if so, I put to you
    that I have known Protestants who have recited this Latin prayer by heart, so
    you Catholics ought to sit up straight and pay attention -- this comes directly
    out of the Bible, the Latin Vulgate Bible of St. Jerome: extremely Catholic!


    MAGNIFICAT (CANTIcuм B. MARIAE VIRG. AD VESPERAS)

    MAGNIFICAT anima mea Dominum:
            et exsultavit spiritus meus in Deo, salutari meo.
    Quia respexit humilitatem ancillae suae:
            ecce enim ex hoc beatam me dicent omnes generationes.
    Quia fecit mihi magna qui potens est:
            et sanctum nomen eius.
    Et misericordia eius a progenie in progenies
            timentibus eum.
    Fecit potentiam in bracchio suo:                (Luke 1:51)
            dispersit superbos mente cordis sui.
    Deposuit potentes de sede,
            et exaltavit humiles.
    Esurientes implevit bonis:
            et divites dimisit inanes.
    Suscepit Israel, puerum suum,
            recordatus misericordiae suae.
    Sicut locuts est ad patres nostros,
            Abraham et semini eius in saecula.
    Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto.
            Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper,
            et in saecula saeculorum.  Amen.

    (I always remember 1:51 because it reminds me of a universally pleasing drink!
    "He hath shewed might in His arm, He hath scattered the proud in the conceit
    of their heart."  This pious oration dispels demons and extinguishes temptation,
    because, I believe, it reminds the devil of his ultimate fate, when his head will
    be crushed by the heel of the Virgin Mary (Cf. Gen. iii. 15)
    , whose own words
    these are -- these are the closest words we have to the Third Secret of Fatima!)
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #19 on: October 21, 2012, 05:58:56 AM »
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  • Quote from: Maria Elizabeth
    Quote from: rowsofvoices9
    Quote from: magdalena
    And that, Ethelred, bring me back to my original post.  Let's compile a list of the best books out there.    


    Mystical City of God  - Ven Mary of Agreda
    Introduction to the Devout Life - St. Francis de Sales
    The Secret of the Rosary - St. Louis De Montfort


    A most inspiring and popular book -- many printings for many decades!
    And the next two are likewise most edifying. True Devotion was lost in its
    original manuscript for an entire century, before it was re-discovered, along
    with the prophesy that it would lay hidden for 100 years.

    Quote
    Quote
    True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin - St. Louis De Montfort
    The Secret of Mary - St. Louis De Montfort
    The Imitation of Christ - Thomas a Kempis
    The Story of a Soul - St. Therese of Lisieux
    The City of God - St. Augustine
    The Confessions of St. Augustine
    The Twelve Steps to Holiness and Salvation - St. Alphonsus de Liguori
    Preparation for Death - St. Alphonsus de Liguori


    Another show-stopper.  A must read for anyone who thinks they know what is
    important in this life:  Do you know about final impenitence, or the grace of
    final perseverance?  That one thing could make all the difference in your
    eternal destiny -- and what else is more important than that???

    Quote
    Quote
    Writings of the Church Fathers
    A Treatise on the Spiritual Life - St. Vincent Ferrer
    The Spiritual Exercises - St. Ignatius of Loyola


    Also,
    * The Holy Bible, esp.
       - The New Testament
       - The Psalms
       - Proverbs


    Once again -- Douay-Rheims version!  It has many benefits over other versions.

    Quote
    * My Imitation of Christ

    These are great for adults.


    The daily reading of Sacred Scripture is a lifelong habit that children can learn,
    and will serve them well for a lifetime.  Don't wait for maturity.  Get them
    started in their infancy, before even the age of reason.  Of such shall be saints!

    Quote
    But how about also compiling a list of best books for children (i.e. a list of best books that parents can read and discuss with their children)?

    I can start this list:
    * The Holy Bible (Children's Bible) DOUAY-RHEIMS!!
    * The lives of the saints (Any suggestions for best authors?)
    * Aesop's Fables



    Saints for children:
    All of the Mary Fabyan Windeatt books available at TAN books I heartily
    recommend saving up for purchasing the entire set, at a discount = there are
    20 editions, for various saints, including  The Little Flower (St. Therese of Lisieux),
    Pauline Jaricot, Foundress of the Society for the Propagation of the Faith (Mary
    Fabyan Windeatt), St. Anthony of Padua, The Miraculous Medal, The Children
    of Fatima, St. John Bosco, The Cure of Ars, St. Thomas Aquinas, etc. ( if they're
    still in print -- because TAN was bought out by Protestants, and they are gradually
    phasing out the Catholic titles as stocks deplete, and they're not reprinting them.
    THIS SHOULD SERVE AS FAIR WARNING TO US ALL: THE BOOKS ARE BECOMING
    RARE.  AND RARE BOOKS CAN BE PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE! )


    Mary Fabyan Windeatt 20 Book Set
    By: Mary Fabyan Windeatt
    More Sharing Services 3
    Price: $160.00     Add to Cart
    Item No. 1256
    This item is temporarily out of stock.
    Set of all 20 Children's Saints Lives. A $226 Value! Impr. PB


    Oversize, high quality picture books are a treasure for children. Do not leave them
    out where the kids can grab them and tear the pages or scribble with crayon.  Put
    them out of reach or lock them in a chest or a closet.  They are to be treated as
    precious and "set apart" from profane use: consecrated, in a word.  Children
    should learn something about consecration before the age of reason.


    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline cantatedomino

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #20 on: October 21, 2012, 05:37:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Nadir
    I think it's a wonderful thing to read together as a family. But Maria Valtorta?
     :facepalm:

    Our children loved The Martyrs of the Coliseum or Historical Records of the Great Amphitheater of Ancient Rome  by A. J. O'Reilly


    Darn good book. I read from it to my public high schoolers.

    Offline Seraphia

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #21 on: October 21, 2012, 07:07:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: magdalena
    What I'd like to begin reading this Advent is Dom Gueranger's, The Liturgical Year,   We'll see how it goes.   :reading:


    I have tried twice to read The Liturgical Year completely. Once I got very ill and then again I moved. Perhaps I can try again.  :pray:

    Offline magdalena

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #22 on: October 21, 2012, 09:45:24 PM »
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  • It might be well to add some Catholic history to the reading--especially with the teens.  Off the top of my head, I would suggest A Heart for Europe by Joanna and James Bogle, and Elena Maria Vidal's Trianon and Madame Royale.  
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42


    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #23 on: October 21, 2012, 10:43:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: magdalena
    It might be well to add some Catholic history to the reading--especially with the teens.  Off the top of my head, I would suggest A Heart for Europe by Joanna and James Bogle, and Elena Maria Vidal's Trianon and Madame Royale.  



    I've met the Bogles and they are the epitome of English grace, wit and wisdom.

    Except, tragically, and at least concerning Mrs. Bogle, vociferously anti-Traditionalist!  Check Mrs. Bogle's comments on her website.  She is a treasure and a fine Catholic but she has been fed the conciliarist porridge so long that she obviously does not understand ++LeFebvre's rationale at all.

    Nevertheless, I am sure the books by the Bogles are first rate.

    Offline Adolphus

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #24 on: October 22, 2012, 11:07:38 AM »
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  • This is not the first time +Williamson recommends reading Valtorta.  Her work was censured by the Holy Office under the direction of Card. Ottaviani while it was promoted by father Bea.

    Offline MauricePinay

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #25 on: October 22, 2012, 11:10:34 AM »
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  •  This is where Bp. Williamson sadly walks in lockstep with the "Saint of the Sanhedrin" agenda.

    "The Poem" or more accurately, the Midrash "of the Man-God," like "The Saint of the Sanhedrin" extols the virtue of the Pharisee Hillel, outrageously putting Jesus on his knees venerating Hillel's grave, among many other absurdities.

    Quote
    "I love and venerate Hillel, I respect and honour Gamaliel. They are two men through whose justice and wisdom the origin of man is revealed"


    Who in their right mind cannot see the pharisaic/rabbinic hand behind this outrageous Pharisee-veneration put in the mouth of Christ?

    There is no justice in the Pharisee Hillel. A book that claims that Jesus venerated the Pharisee Hillel who overruled God's law on divorce and allowed divorce for any reason; who nullified God's 7 year release of debts and created loopholes for incest by defining it as "not sex" is absolutely, 100% certainly not from God.

    "The Poem" was shepherded past Cardinal Ottaviani and the Holy Office by Cardinal Bea of unhappy memory whose treachery reached its zenith with the shepherding of Nostra Aetate through Vatican II.

    At least Bp. Williamson admits that he recommends this Pharisee-venerating tome against the will of Archbishop Lefebvre although he minimizes the Archbishop's objections to it, and the objections of others.


    Offline MauricePinay

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #26 on: October 22, 2012, 11:14:45 AM »
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  • To understand why it's impossible that Jesus would venerate the creature Hillel for "justice and wisdom" we look at Mark 10;2-10 and Matthew 19;3-9 in which the Pharisees attempt to ensnare Jesus on the topic of divorce.

    Judaic and Christian scholarship of any given era largely takes for granted that Jesus is being confronted with the pharisaic positions of Hillel and Shammai in this passage. The Gospel passage makes it clear that Jesus condemns both the positions of Hillel and Shammai, corrects the injustices of both positions and teaches what God intends on the indissolubility of marriage.

    The 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia identifies Hillel and his "lax" teaching on divorce with the Gospel narrative of the Pharisaic attempted ensnarement of Jesus on that topic:

    Quote
    In the time of Christ there was an acute controversy between the recent, lax school of Hillel and the strict, conservative school of Schammai about the meaning of the Hebrew phrase ["for some uncleanness"]. Hence the question with which the Pharisees tempted Our Lord: "Is it lawful [for a man to put away his wife] for every cause?" The putting-away of the wife for frivolous reasons had been sharply condemned by God through the Prophets Micheas (ii, 9) and Malachias (ii, 14), but in later days it became very prevalent. (Catholic Encyclopedia, "Divorce")

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05054c.htm


    We know from the Gospel that Jesus condemned Hillel's unjust teaching on divorce. We know with absolute certainty that the Gospel is of God. If the law of non-contradiction has any bearing on the matter, the Midrash "of the Man-God" which outrageously depicts Jesus venerating the creature Hillel for his "justice and wisdom" cannot be of God.

    Offline MauricePinay

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #27 on: October 22, 2012, 11:15:16 AM »
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  • It may interest people to know that the shepherd of the Midrash "of the Man God," Augustin Bea wrote the draft for the encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu which opened the Bible to textual and historical criticism within the Church. This same Augustin Bea abused every means to assure that the error-strewn Midrash "of the Man God" suffered no criticism at all.

    Offline MauricePinay

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #28 on: October 22, 2012, 11:16:06 AM »
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  • Single-issue traditionalists who don't care about Augustine Bea's shepherding of the Midrash "of the Man God" past any criticism or his shepherding of Nostra Aetate through Vatican II or his shepherding of textual and historical criticism of Scripture into the Church may be interested to know of his role in shepherding the Novus Ordo Mass into Catholic parishes. Augustin Bea, along with Annibale Bugnini and others, was a member of the secretive Commission for Liturgical Reform from its very beginning in 1948. As we know, the first target of attack was the Holy Week liturgy.

    There is a clear trajectory to his treachery for anyone with eyes to see. The Judaizing "Poem of the Man God" is very much in alignment with it.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Eleison Comments 275 - by Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #29 on: October 22, 2012, 11:19:23 AM »
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  • It will be very good to have Bishop Williamson in the resistance.

    We can only pray that Bishops Tissier and Alphonso will join it, so that there is no question as to which side is carrying the legacy of the Archbishop.

    Catholic Tradition needs new leaders, new consecrations.