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Author Topic: ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.  (Read 7656 times)

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Offline AJNC

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ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2014, 11:00:41 AM »
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  • I was a young boy in the fifties. I cannot quite grasp what Bp Williamson is saying.There were certain things we just had to do in those days. Young boys had to become altar servers and join the Legion of Mary. We had to attend Benediction every Sunday evening. The radio had to be turned off during Lent and no brightly colored clothing was used during this season. Many people did NOT like these things and wanted a way out. I myself lapsed from the Faith from 1970 to 1976. I remember my mother and the other Catholic housewives talking on the election of John XXIII to the Papacy. How what a refreshing change he was to the " strict and stern" Pius XII. So many millions quit the Church after Vatican II. They hated the "Fifties Catholicism".


    Offline stgobnait

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #16 on: March 11, 2014, 11:18:39 AM »
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  • a reflection of our fallen nature, we are not angels. i too remember the tediousness of being called from play to attend church,the bleakness of the lenten season, and even the 'relief' of not having to search for a mantilla to go to Mass. but now, older, and a little wiser, i can see where the restrictions were necessary, to bring me to my knees, because God did not create me as an angel, fifties catholicism, is what brought me to the place i am today, and still far from being an angel.


    Offline Frances

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #17 on: March 11, 2014, 11:19:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: AJNC
    I was a young boy in the fifties. I cannot quite grasp what Bp Williamson is saying.There were certain things we just had to do in those days. Young boys had to become altar servers and join the Legion of Mary. We had to attend Benediction every Sunday evening. The radio had to be turned off during Lent and no brightly colored clothing was used during this season. Many people did NOT like these things and wanted a way out. I myself lapsed from the Faith from 1970 to 1976. I remember my mother and the other Catholic housewives talking on the election of John XXIII to the Papacy. How what a refreshing change he was to the " strict and stern" Pius XII. So many millions quit the Church after Vatican II. They hated the "Fifties Catholicism".


    Perhaps you hated it, but many people loved it for its stability and sentimentality.  Maybe it depended upon where you were raised?

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #18 on: March 11, 2014, 02:44:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: AJNC
    I was a young boy in the fifties. I cannot quite grasp what Bp Williamson is saying.


    Just reading this one EC alone doesn't give you all the background, but if you had been reading previous ECs and listening to his sermons and conferences over the past 10 years, you'd understand better.

    Quote
    There were certain things we just had to do in those days. Young boys had to become altar servers and join the Legion of Mary. We had to attend Benediction every Sunday evening. The radio had to be turned off during Lent and no brightly colored clothing was used during this season.


    The examples you give refer to superficial practices that grew out of the Faith, but are not inherent to the Faith.  Different Catholics over the centuries have had many different specific practices.  What's important is not the trappings but the doctrine.  And +W has said time and again, we have lost the sense of how important doctrine is.  

    That is the key to this:  the untouchable importance of doctrine!

    Quote
    Many people did NOT like these things and wanted a way out. I myself lapsed from the Faith from 1970 to 1976. I remember my mother and the other Catholic housewives talking on the election of John XXIII to the Papacy. How what a refreshing change he was to the " strict and stern" Pius XII. So many millions quit the Church after Vatican II. They hated the "Fifties Catholicism".



    I was blessed to have a mother who saw through the worldliness of such talk about how "wonderful" John XXIII was.  She could see there was something very sinister afoot, and there was a grave danger for the future of the Church.  Any pope who would dare set aside his power to condemn error, and presume that the "medicine of mercy" (mercy is not medicine!) would take its place, was stepping into a world that can be described as many things, but "Catholic" is not among them!  

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #19 on: March 11, 2014, 03:56:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: stgobnait
    a reflection of our fallen nature, we are not angels. i too remember the tediousness of being called from play to attend church,the bleakness of the lenten season, and even the 'relief' of not having to search for a mantilla to go to Mass. but now, older, and a little wiser, i can see where the restrictions were necessary, to bring me to my knees, because God did not create me as an angel, fifties catholicism, is what brought me to the place i am today, and still far from being an angel.


    It's interesting you would mention mantilla.

    The practice of women covering their heads may be construed as a trapping, or prudential, or usage, or circuмstantial -- that is, not essential, or arbitrary, and subject to change.  But I don't think that's accurate.  

    The practice of women covering their hair (ALL of it, not just a tiny spot on top or down to the ears or to the shoulders, while the bulk of loose hair hangs out below) goes back to the very dawn of the Church, and was a most "religious" practice before that time, into the mists of antiquity.  We can be pretty sure that the women emerging from Noah's Ark covered ALL their hair, but we might suppose that those who drowned in the Flood did not cover themselves in many cases.  Nor did the women of Sodom and Gomorrah, for example (one might expect).  That is, women flaunting their hair in the face of men in church is an aspect of cultural PERVERSION, not of societal fidelity to God's will.  

    Have you ever seen an image of Our Lady with her hair exposed?  The only one I know of is Mahony Square Garden in Los Angeles (aka Taj Mahony, aka The Pink Palace).

    It seems to me that mantilla use is a lot more important than many realize.  

    There is an Armenian Orthodox parish in town where a friend of mine invited me to attend some years ago, where I was shown something most educational.  Their longstanding tradition is for women to cover their heads in church, and you can quickly see who the hold-outs are because they wrap their heads up a lot like Moslem women do, with ears, neck and hairline over their foreheads concealed and only their faces exposed.  

    Other more "Americanized" ladies use free-flowing mantillas, often somewhat diaphanous lace.  Maybe we have forgotten, but only 100 years ago even in the Roman Church, see-through lace mantillas were considered indecent, and far too reminiscent of how a streetwalker dresses to attract attention.  Those were days when the thoughts that roam about in the mind of man were recognized for the prowling lions they are, seeking whom they might devour.

    But as of 15 years ago, there were Freemasons posted in this Armenian Orthodox church, as ushers.  These men were absolutely known to be Freemasons, and my friend proved it to me, so it's not questionable.  Don't be surprised if petwerp chimes in trying to contradict that.  These ushers (Freemasons) would stand in the aisles passing out mantillas to the ladies in line to receive Communion, and other Freemason ushers dutifully stood in the aisles where the same ladies would later REMOVE the mantilla in PLAIN VIEW at the front of the pews (upstaging the altar!) after having received Communion, as they walked back to their place in the pews.  One detail is missing.  Can you imagine what it was?  I'll explain it later.

    The purpose of these ushers (Freemasons, every one of them) was to provide a display of women disrobing in front of everyone, and to also mock the silliness of women who still clung to the ancient custom of covering their heads, because the whole point is that only during the reception of the Sacrament is it of any use to cover one's head, and this is only because of a silly, old, dusty practice that nobody really understands anyway, and besides, protestants don't do this, so what's the big deal?  They did not speak this way openly, but in private they would crack jokes outside of the liturgical setting -- jokes they likely were informed about by other Freemasons.

    The missing detail is as follows.  Years previously, the Freemasons stood at the entrance to the church and handed veils to women as they walked in the door.  But they were few because most women at the time already had veils on as they came into the church.  The same Freemasons would stand at the exits after Divine Liturgy, dutifully collecting the veils, perhaps getting their "service hours in."  Then later, the Freemasons gradually abandoned the entrance doors at the beginning of the Liturgy and moved into the aisles, proffering veils to women there, as they would approach their pew, but after having already walked from the door entrance to the pew without head covering.  This was a subtle promotion of the practice of not bothering to bring your own veil, or during the week of bothering to keep track of where you had put it.  Then later, the Freemasons waited until the Sermon was about to begin before they passed out the veils, and did a second 'wave' of distribution during the Offertory, and while the collection was taking place.  It was only years later that they eventually abandoned these early opportunities to distribute mantillas and waited until the "last moment" (just before Communion) to pass out the veils, while women were standing in line to receive.  The last change was for the Freemasons to start collecting the veils from women who had just received Communion, as they walked back to their pews.  

    Still no missing detail, but perhaps you have thought of it by now:  When a particular woman accepts a veil while she is standing in line for Communion, she can do one of two things -- she can put it on immediately, or she can wait for later.  Many put it on right away, but others started delaying until they were say 20 steps from the altar, then 10 steps, then two or three steps.  Eventually, there were women putting on a veil within SECONDS of receiving their Communion, and then immediately after reception of the Sacrament, they would whisk that veil off their heads before having so much as turned to walk away, and then the dutiful Freemason would be standing there to bow and scrape in their general direction, to impart a feeling of appreciation that they had done the "right thing."  

    The Freemasons were there, quietly promoting the corruption of the custom of wearing mantillas in church, and they did it by providing mantillas.  The "missing detail" is that the Freemasons actively promoted the wearing of a veil for only the BARE MINIMUM of time, that is, while the woman is receiving Communion.  

    This whole approach IGNORES the fact that men are distracted by seeing women's hair exposed in church, and they are ESPECIALLY distracted by seeing women putting veils ON and TAKING THEM OFF.  The latter, you may well imagine, is the cause of many mortal sins in the hearts of men who see a nonstop parade of women "taking it off."


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    Offline holysoulsacademy

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #20 on: March 11, 2014, 11:51:00 PM »
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  • The Fiftiesm that goes around among the so-called traditional parishes is a romanticized version of the fifties, kinda like the Hollywood fifties.
    Interestingly, at least from the insight of a woman, the women in these parishes, especially those who uproot themselves and move in right next door to these parishes, end up being brainwashed.
    I have observed many women who do not quite grow into the role of motherhood and have a warped sense of brain drain where they cannot think for themselves beyond "what the priest says".  

    The priest cannot possibly be infallible!

    And the poor husbands!
    If they cannot make enough money to sustain the suburban middle-class baby boomer lifestyle that these women envision themselves as living - they are sent to Fr. for chastisement!
    A wife is supposed to take her husbands earnings and budget household and childcare expenses to the level of her husbands earnings.
    Not, conjure a lifestyle, and make the husband work anywhere - even if it could be detrimental to his soul - just to support this lifestyle these women conjure up.
    How many times I see them treat their husbands like second rate citizens - no respect at all!  
    Especially if he cannot sustain the outlandish and impractical lifestyle they imagine that they have to have.
    They are feminists underneath their mantillas!
    They just happen to have a lot of children and attend the TLM!

    Offline awkwardcustomer

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #21 on: March 12, 2014, 05:49:24 AM »
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  • Neil Obstat asks -

    "Have you ever seen an image of Our Lady with her hair exposed?"

    Well, yes I have.

    Medieval Books of Hours frequently show images of Our Lady with her hair exposed.

    http://www.art.co.uk/products/p22114188448-sa-i7646541/master-of-the-aix-annunciation-the-virgin-mary-reading-from-a-book-of-hours-c-1445-detail.htm?isPLAItem=true&plaSearchText=virgin%20mary%20books%20of%20hours

    If this link doesn't work, then a glance through any collection of images from Medieval illuminated manuscripts will show that Our Lady is quite often shown without her head covered.

     

    Offline Frances

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #22 on: March 12, 2014, 12:40:28 PM »
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  •  :dancing-banana:
    Whether the cause be "Fiftiesism" or something else,
    Quote from: Frances

    What is without question is that we sheep have been abandoned.  What, then, shall we do, other than give up and offer ourselves to the wolves?  
    What choice have we but to cling to the Faith as best we can, even though it necessitates a return to the times in which, "there was no king in Israel, and every one did that which seemed right in his own eyes.?" (Judges 21:24)
    Comments?
    Suggestions?


    What next?  So far, nobody has answered.


    Offline Frances

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #23 on: March 14, 2014, 07:39:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Frances
    :dancing-banana:
    Whether the cause be "Fiftiesism" or something else,
    Quote from: Frances

    What is without question is that we sheep have been abandoned.  What, then, shall we do, other than give up and offer ourselves to the wolves?  
    What choice have we but to cling to the Faith as best we can, even though it necessitates a return to the times in which, "there was no king in Israel, and every one did that which seemed right in his own eyes.?" (Judges 21:24)
    Comments?
    Suggestions?


    What next?  So far, nobody has answered.


    Any takers?

    Offline Frances

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #24 on: March 31, 2014, 01:56:00 PM »
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  • NOW HAPPENING AT YOUR LOCAL PRIORY?

    Quote from: Miseremini
    Number CCCXLVII (347)   8th March 2014

    FIFTIESISM OBSERVED
    ... it will be easy for Rome to wipe out the last fortress of Tradition! The SSPX chapels need only to be handed over to the jurisdiction of the local bishop by formal agreement, or by de facto cooperation with Novus Ordo priests, which we have seen locally.”

    Notice her evocation of the possibility of Rome absorbing the SSPX no longer by any clear-cut agreement, but by a gradual merger. It is a real danger. I wonder if that is not what SSPX HQ is being advised to do by its “new friends” in Rome.


    They got it switched around in 2012.  Implement the changes, THEN sign the deal?
    Has anyone noticed anything?

    Offline Matto

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #25 on: March 31, 2014, 02:24:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: holysoulsacademy

    They are feminists underneath their mantillas!
    They just happen to have a lot of children and attend the TLM!


    I don't have enough experience in traditional Catholicism to know how often what you describe happens. "They are feminists underneath their mantillas!" sounds like something Telesphorus would say.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline Frances

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #26 on: March 31, 2014, 02:58:09 PM »
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  • l
    Quote from: Frances
    NOW HAPPENING AT YOUR LOCAL PRIORY?

    Quote from: Miseremini
    Number CCCXLVII (347)   8th March 2014

    FIFTIESISM OBSERVED
    ... it will be easy for Rome to wipe out the last fortress of Tradition! The SSPX chapels need only to be handed over to the jurisdiction of the local bishop by formal agreement, or by de facto cooperation with Novus Ordo priests, which we have seen locally.”

    Notice her evocation of the possibility of Rome absorbing the SSPX no longer by any clear-cut agreement, but by a gradual merger. It is a real danger. I wonder if that is not what SSPX HQ is being advised to do by its “new friends” in Rome.


    They got it switched around in 2012.  Implement the changes, THEN sign the deal?
    Has anyone noticed anything?

    Offline hugeman

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #27 on: April 01, 2014, 09:56:42 AM »
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  • Don't know WHY you would ask has anyone noticed anything? It's just us dumb sheep here,
    kneeling in the pews, being lied to over and over again-- getting dumber and dumber.  "Oh, how
    Wonderful!", we exclaim as Fr. Goldady announced that an( ahem) "Monsignor" from the New York Archdiocese will be " in Residence" at St. Ignatius Retreat House in Ridgefield. "Whoopee!"'we all e claim! " See? We TOLD you there's no agreement! Who needs a stinkin' agreement??"  We'll just let these pres-by-ters move in wholesale!

    Of COURSE, Fr. Goldady said" he will have no mission here."
    WHAT??? Another priest without a mission?? Cardinal Mueller , archbishop DeNoia and all of Rome says NONE of the SSPX priests have a mission!! Is this another one of Fellay's
    Verbal twists of the to tongue? "Let's just say he has no mission since we have no jurisdiction or power to incardinate him into the SSPX---and then we won't step on "Cardinal" Dolan's
    Delicate little toes!"

    Well, mr no mission 'mondignor' Burns' first meeting was with the ladies of the chapel. ( sorry , ladies, but somebody has to be the canary-- you really aren't any more gullible than the
    Men folk!). 'Msgr' Burns announced he became a pres-by-ter in 1986
    by 'cardinal' O'Connor. He used the word 'ordained', but , of course, everybody knows the Conciliar church no longer ordains men. The archbishop included their 'ordination' rite of 1969 as one of the "bastard" rites of their new religion.
        'Msgr' Burns (I believe that's his name) stated that Fr. Rostand has decreed that "I am a priest, and perfectly valid, so will not be conditionally re-ordained!"

        Well, how-de-do!!

    Father Rostand determines that pres-by-ters, never ordained Catholic priests, are
    A-OK in his book, and can be let loose on the Catholic faithful-- who have been fighting for forty five years against  exactly this creeping modernism! Nineteen Eighty Six--exactly the very same year that archbishop Lefebvre lamented that, because of the heresies of  JPII, his continuing dalliance with the super religion of Assisi, and his un Catholic theology, "we may have to say he is not the pope!"  Nineteen Eighty six- some seventeen years AFTER the conciliar
    Church abandoned the ordination rites, and adopted the rites of Martin Luther for its pres-by-ters-- rites which were soundly CONDEMNED by Pope Leo XIII-- these are the rites that Rostand now hangs his hat on!!!
         Do you see now why LeRoux maintained in Auriesville in 2012 that  "Our priests
    Get their mission from the local ordinary?" These men are modernists! They are not Catholics! They have absolutely no connection to the Roman Catholic Church of Archbishop Lefebvre, St. PiusX, and Our Lord Jesus Christ, except they have now hijacked the SSPX!

    Under the guise of tradition ( because tradition sells) they are stealing the chapels of the SSPX, and they are twisting your faith !

    Offline Frances

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #28 on: April 02, 2014, 11:24:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: hugeman
    Don't know WHY you would ask has anyone noticed anything? It's just us dumb sheep here,
    kneeling in the pews, being lied to over and over again-- getting dumber and dumber.  "Oh, how
    Wonderful!", we exclaim as Fr. Goldady announced that an( ahem) "Monsignor" from the New York Archdiocese will be " in Residence" at St. Ignatius Retreat House in Ridgefield. "Whoopee!"'we all e claim! " See? We TOLD you there's no agreement! Who needs a stinkin' agreement??"  We'll just let these pres-by-ters move in wholesale!

    Of COURSE, Fr. Goldady said" he will have no mission here."
    WHAT??? Another priest without a mission?? Cardinal Mueller , archbishop DeNoia and all of Rome says NONE of the SSPX priests have a mission!! Is this another one of Fellay's
    Verbal twists of the to tongue? "Let's just say he has no mission since we have no jurisdiction or power to incardinate him into the SSPX---and then we won't step on "Cardinal" Dolan's
    Delicate little toes!"

    Well, mr no mission 'mondignor' Burns' first meeting was with the ladies of the chapel. ( sorry , ladies, but somebody has to be the canary-- you really aren't any more gullible than the
    Men folk!). 'Msgr' Burns announced he became a pres-by-ter in 1986
    by 'cardinal' O'Connor. He used the word 'ordained', but , of course, everybody knows the Conciliar church no longer ordains men. The archbishop included their 'ordination' rite of 1969 as one of the "bastard" rites of their new religion.
        'Msgr' Burns (I believe that's his name) stated that Fr. Rostand has decreed that "I am a priest, and perfectly valid, so will not be conditionally re-ordained!"

        Well, how-de-do!!

    Father Rostand determines that pres-by-ters, never ordained Catholic priests, are
    A-OK in his book, and can be let loose on the Catholic faithful-- who have been fighting for forty five years against  exactly this creeping modernism! Nineteen Eighty Six--exactly the very same year that archbishop Lefebvre lamented that, because of the heresies of  JPII, his continuing dalliance with the super religion of Assisi, and his un Catholic theology, "we may have to say he is not the pope!"  Nineteen Eighty six- some seventeen years AFTER the conciliar
    Church abandoned the ordination rites, and adopted the rites of Martin Luther for its pres-by-ters-- rites which were soundly CONDEMNED by Pope Leo XIII-- these are the rites that Rostand now hangs his hat on!!!
         Do you see now why LeRoux maintained in Auriesville in 2012 that  "Our priests
    Get their mission from the local ordinary?" These men are modernists! They are not Catholics! They have absolutely no connection to the Roman Catholic Church of Archbishop Lefebvre, St. PiusX, and Our Lord Jesus Christ, except they have now hijacked the SSPX!

    Under the guise of tradition ( because tradition sells) they are stealing the chapels of the SSPX, and they are twisting your faith !

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    ELEISON COMMENTS (347) 8th March 2014 A.D.
    « Reply #29 on: May 01, 2014, 07:46:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: hugeman
    Don't know WHY you would ask has anyone noticed anything? It's just us dumb sheep here,
    kneeling in the pews, being lied to over and over again-- getting dumber and dumber.  "Oh, how
    Wonderful!", we exclaim as Fr. Goldady announced that an( ahem) "Monsignor" from the New York Archdiocese will be " in Residence" at St. Ignatius Retreat House in Ridgefield. "Whoopee!"'we all e claim! " See? We TOLD you there's no agreement! Who needs a stinkin' agreement??"  We'll just let these pres-by-ters move in wholesale!

    Of COURSE, Fr. Goldady said" he will have no mission here."
    WHAT??? Another priest without a mission?? Cardinal Mueller , archbishop DeNoia and all of Rome says NONE of the SSPX priests have a mission!! Is this another one of Fellay's
    Verbal twists of the to tongue? "Let's just say he has no mission since we have no jurisdiction or power to incardinate him into the SSPX---and then we won't step on "Cardinal" Dolan's
    Delicate little toes!"

    Well, mr no mission 'mondignor' Burns' first meeting was with the ladies of the chapel. ( sorry , ladies, but somebody has to be the canary-- you really aren't any more gullible than the
    Men folk!). 'Msgr' Burns announced he became a pres-by-ter in 1986
    by 'cardinal' O'Connor. He used the word 'ordained', but , of course, everybody knows the Conciliar church no longer ordains men. The archbishop included their 'ordination' rite of 1969 as one of the "bastard" rites of their new religion.
        'Msgr' Burns (I believe that's his name) stated that Fr. Rostand has decreed that "I am a priest, and perfectly valid, so will not be conditionally re-ordained!"

        Well, how-de-do!!

    Father Rostand determines that pres-by-ters, never ordained Catholic priests, are
    A-OK in his book, and can be let loose on the Catholic faithful-- who have been fighting for forty five years against  exactly this creeping modernism! Nineteen Eighty Six--exactly the very same year that archbishop Lefebvre lamented that, because of the heresies of  JPII, his continuing dalliance with the super religion of Assisi, and his un Catholic theology, "we may have to say he is not the pope!"  Nineteen Eighty six- some seventeen years AFTER the conciliar
    Church abandoned the ordination rites, and adopted the rites of Martin Luther for its pres-by-ters-- rites which were soundly CONDEMNED by Pope Leo XIII-- these are the rites that Rostand now hangs his hat on!!!
         Do you see now why LeRoux maintained in Auriesville in 2012 that  "Our priests
    Get their mission from the local ordinary?" These men are modernists! They are not Catholics! They have absolutely no connection to the Roman Catholic Church of Archbishop Lefebvre, St. PiusX, and Our Lord Jesus Christ, except they have now hijacked the SSPX!

    Under the guise of tradition ( because tradition sells) they are stealing the chapels of the SSPX, and they are twisting your faith !



    If hugeman was in this state of mind on April second, no wonder he was so quiet by the time "Divine Mercy Sunday" rolled around.  


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