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Author Topic: ELEISON COMMENTS "Resistance Unity" Aug 3 A.D.2019  (Read 2051 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: ELEISON COMMENTS "Resistance Unity" Aug 3 A.D.2019
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2019, 07:04:09 PM »
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  • Sean,
    What are the 2 great commandments?  Love God with your whole mind, body, spirit and being...and love thy neighbor as thyself.
    .
    The commandments are not:  Avoid evil, hate satan, and don't hurt your neighbor.  
    .
    Pro-life is much more all-encompassing an ideal than simply, anti-abortion.  "Traditionalist" or "orthodox" is more explanatory of Catholicism than Resistance.  "Love of God" is wider and broader in scope than just avoiding evil.
    .
    It's much more than simply psychological branding; it's about the goal.  The goal is to teach and preach the Faith, which is a positive thing.  The goal is not to destroy contrary viewpoints/religions.  


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: ELEISON COMMENTS "Resistance Unity" Aug 3 A.D.2019
    « Reply #16 on: August 04, 2019, 07:20:41 PM »
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  • Sean,
    What are the 2 great commandments?  Love God with your whole mind, body, spirit and being...and love thy neighbor as thyself.
    .
    The commandments are not:  Avoid evil, hate satan, and don't hurt your neighbor.  
    .
    Pro-life is much more all-encompassing an ideal than simply, anti-abortion.  "Traditionalist" or "orthodox" is more explanatory of Catholicism than Resistance.  "Love of God" is wider and broader in scope than just avoiding evil.
    .
    It's much more than simply psychological branding; it's about the goal.  The goal is to teach and preach the Faith, which is a positive thing.  The goal is not to destroy contrary viewpoints/religions.  

    Save this pablum for someone else.

    What in the world do the 2 great commandments have to do with this conversation?

    Are you of the deluded liberal position which believes that to be against something is unchawitabow?

    Are you suggesting ABL failed in this regard when he attacked the modernists?

    I am anti-modernist.

    You can follow the Dutch branding company.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: ELEISON COMMENTS "Resistance Unity" Aug 3 A.D.2019
    « Reply #17 on: August 04, 2019, 07:26:21 PM »
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  • According to you softies, the Anti-Modernist Oath should have been the Pro-Fidelity Oath!

    That St. Pius X should have learned about the two great commandments!!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: ELEISON COMMENTS "Resistance Unity" Aug 3 A.D.2019
    « Reply #18 on: August 04, 2019, 10:41:49 PM »
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  • Quote
    Are you of the deluded liberal position which believes that to be against something is unchawitabow?

    Are you suggesting ABL failed in this regard when he attacked the modernists?

    I am anti-modernist.
    My point is that +ABL named his society of priests after St Pius X who was a staunch orthodox saint.  He didn't name it the anti-V2 society.
    .
    The oath against modernism was so called because it was a condemnation of errors.
    .
    Sometimes situations call for being "for" something and sometimes you must condemn something.  But I'm just against your earlier attitude that being always contrary to something is the best approach.  

    Offline richard

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    Re: ELEISON COMMENTS "Resistance Unity" Aug 3 A.D.2019
    « Reply #19 on: August 05, 2019, 03:48:17 AM »
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  • My point is that +ABL named his society of priests after St Pius X who was a staunch orthodox saint.  He didn't name it the anti-V2 society.
    .
    The oath against modernism was so called because it was a condemnation of errors.
    .
    Sometimes situations call for being "for" something and sometimes you must condemn something.  But I'm just against your earlier attitude that being always contrary to something is the best approach.  
    Didn’t St.PiusX say that we should fight the Modernists with fists? That sounds pretty anti-modernists to me.


    Offline homeschoolmom

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    Re: ELEISON COMMENTS "Resistance Unity" Aug 3 A.D.2019
    « Reply #20 on: August 05, 2019, 08:00:28 AM »
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  • I think that all the positive that can possibly be expressed is already there in the fact that we are Catholics. We are Catholics and stem from an organization called the Society of St Pius X. That says 99% of the story. We are now down to the nitty gritty of what makes us different and what brings us together. That is a negative, a good negative, a negative that is actually a positive. The term Resistance isn't going to stop any serious convert. There are so many people who have had it up to their eyeballs with all this positive stuff and now they are looking for real, hard truth. The more the discussion goes along, the more I realize that no term is more appropriate than the Resistance. It really does say it all, and without putting on airs or trying to be more than it is. Who wants yet another saint-named organization? They've been done to death and they rarely live up to their namesakes anyway. St Pius X is rolling in his grave as the SSPX leaders are begging for approval from the very modernists, and worse, that he mercilessly sent underground last century. All we have to do is keep fighting conciliar absorption and we are living up to our name in spite of all of our other deficiencies. There is something refreshingly realistic about that.

    Offline Praeter

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    Re: ELEISON COMMENTS "Resistance Unity" Aug 3 A.D.2019
    « Reply #21 on: August 05, 2019, 11:42:56 AM »
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  • According to you softies, the Anti-Modernist Oath should have been the Pro-Fidelity Oath!

    That St. Pius X should have learned about the two great commandments!!


    In reviewing the Oath Against Modernism, I counted 11 positive assertions and 6 negative, and upon close examination I notied that one of the positive anti-modernist statements refutes the heresy of Bishop Sanborn.



    Quote
    The Oath Against Modernism



    Pope Pius X - 1910
    THE OATH AGAINST MODERNISM

    To be sworn to by all clergy, pastors, confessors, preachers, religious superiors, and professors in philosophical-theological seminaries.


    I . . . . firmly embrace and accept each and every definition that has been set forth and declared by the unerring teaching authority of the Church, especially those principal truths which are directly opposed to the errors of this day. And first of all, I profess that God, the origin and end of all things, can be known with certainty by the natural light of reason from the created world (see Rom. 1:19), that is, from the visible works of creation, as a cause from its effects, and that, therefore, his existence can also be demonstrated: Secondly, I accept and acknowledge the external proofs of revelation, that is, divine acts and especially miracles and prophecies as the surest signs of the divine origin of the Christian religion and I hold that these same proofs are well adapted to the understanding of all eras and all men, even of this time. Thirdly, I believe with equally firm faith that the Church, the guardian and teacher of the revealed word, was personally instituted by the real and historical Christ when he lived among us, and that the Church was built upon Peter, the prince of the apostolic hierarchy, and his successors for the duration of time. Fourthly, I sincerely hold that the doctrine of faith was handed down to us from the apostles through the orthodox Fathers in exactly the same meaning and always in the same purport. Therefore, I entirely reject the heretical’ misrepresentation that dogmas evolve and change from one meaning to another different from the one which the Church held previously. I also condemn every error according to which, in place of the divine deposit which has been given to the spouse of Christ to be carefully guarded by her, there is put a philosophical figment or product of a human conscience that has gradually been developed by human effort and will continue to develop indefinitely. Fifthly, I hold with certainty and sincerely confess that faith is not a blind sentiment of religion welling up from the depths of the subconscious under the impulse of the heart and the motion of a will trained to morality; but faith is a genuine assent of the intellect to truth received by hearing from an external source. By this assent, because of the authority of the supremely truthful God, we believe to be true that which has been revealed and attested to by a personal God, our creator and lord.

    Furthermore, with due reverence, I submit and adhere with my whole heart to the condemnations, declarations, and all the prescripts contained in the encyclical Pascendi and in the decree Lamentabili,especially those concerning what is known as the history of dogmas. I also reject the error of those who say that the faith held by the Church can contradict history, and that Catholic dogmas, in the sense in which they are now understood, are irreconcilable with a more realistic view of the origins of the Christian religion. I also condemn and reject the opinion of those who say that a well-educated Christian assumes a dual personality-that of a believer and at the same time of a historian, as if it were permissible for a historian to hold things that contradict the faith of the believer, or to establish premises which, provided there be no direct denial of dogmas, would lead to the conclusion that dogmas are either false or doubtful. Likewise, I reject that method of judging and interpreting Sacred Scripture which, departing from the tradition of the Church, the analogy of faith, and the norms of the Apostolic See, embraces the misrepresentations of the rationalists and with no prudence or restraint adopts textual criticism as the one and supreme norm. Furthermore, I reject the opinion of those who hold that a professor lecturing or writing on a historico-theological subject should first put aside any preconceived opinion about the supernatural origin of Catholic tradition or about the divine promise of help to preserve all revealed truth forever; and that they should then interpret the writings of each of the Fathers solely by scientific principles, excluding all sacred authority, and with the same liberty of judgment that is common in the investigation of all ordinary historical docuмents.

    Finally, I declare that I am completely opposed to the error of the modernists who hold that there is nothing divine in sacred tradition; or what is far worse, say that there is, but in a pantheistic sense, with the result that there would remain nothing but this plain simple fact-one to be put on a par with the ordinary facts of history-the fact, namely, that a group of men by their own labor, skill, and talent have continued through subsequent ages a school begun by Christ and his apostles. I firmly hold, then, and shall hold to my dying breath the belief of the Fathers in the charism of truth, which certainly is, was, and always will be in the succession of the episcopacy from the apostles. The purpose of this is, then, not that dogma may be tailored according to what seems better and more suited to the culture of each age; rather, that the absolute and immutable truth preached by the apostles from the beginning may never be believed to be different, may never be understood in any other way.

    I promise that I shall keep all these articles faithfully, entirely, and sincerely, and guard them inviolate, in no way deviating from them in teaching or in any way in word or in writing. Thus I promise, this I swear, so help me God. . .


    Bishop Sanborn denies that the "charism of truth" currently resides in the "succession of the episcopate."  He admits that the succession has continued by legitimate appointment, but maintains that the legitimate (material) successors have been deprived of jurisdiction and the charism of truth since at least since Vatican II.  That is a direct denial of the following anti-Modernist profession:

     "I firmly hold, then, and shall hold to my dying breath the belief of the Fathers in the charism of truth, which certainly is, was, and always will be in the succession of the episcopacy from the apostles." 

    Bishop Sanborn's heresy is exposed and condemned by the Oath Against Modernism.




    "Schismatics are in another Church even if they agree with the true Church of Christ in faith and doctrine." (Bellarmine, De Ecclesia Militante cap v)