Author Topic: Eleison Comments" by Mgr. Williamson - Asian Journey - 309 (Read 19100 times)

cantatedomino · « **Reply #60 on:** June 16, 2013, 10:53:37 PM »

Dear Machabees,

Every time I read something you write, I am impressed. Thank you so much for what you have said here. Your charity - for God, for souls, and for the good Bishop - is apparent.

It is love for God and love for souls and love for the Bishop that calls Catholics to action now. It is not an act of disloyalty to the Bishop to call him on this. It is something we owe him if we really care about truth.

Machabees · « **Reply #61 on:** June 16, 2013, 10:58:28 PM »

Quote from: ServusSpiritusSancti

Cantate,

Fr. Pfeiffer is technically the leader of the Resistance, not Bishop Williamson. I don't understand this "contradiction" you speak of.

ServusSpiritusSancti,

Fr. Pfeiffer is NOT technically the leader of the "Resistance". Only in a "practical" manner, yes.

It has always been providentially BISHOP Williamson as the leader of the"resistance" long before when he was in the seminary training seminarians and priests to "resist" the tides of liberalism and modernism, and to stand up, even within the SSPX itself.

In that training, it was some of his priests, and others, that continued to stand up through out the world. These few priests may have some publicity right now; that is only because the rest of the SSPX priests have STOPPED teaching those perennial truths of the Faith and the fight against modernism -the many voices gave up- and now there is only a couple of voices left in the "wilderness"; that draws attention on them.

Bishop Williamson needs to maintain his position he had before and "actively" lead. NOT take up a different position to only passively be a "father, adviser, and a friend."

We need him to take up his former position again. It is a survival of the Faith and the Catholic Church; same fight; same plan.

There is a battle going out there with souls falling into the pit -he must again lead as an active Catholic Bishop- calling in his priests to re-group and protect them; along with re-grouping the faithful.

There is NO other choice in the vineyard...the harvest is great and the laborers are few. Especially when he is the last BISHOP of tradition left. There is no other to carry the torch. He MUST do it.

It is NOT a time to be passive; as it is a time to be ACTIVE!

Our Lord is worth it..and the salvation of souls are worth it.

cantatedomino · « **Reply #62 on:** June 16, 2013, 11:00:38 PM »

Quote from: Machabees

Quote from: ServusSpiritusSancti
Cantate,

Fr. Pfeiffer is technically the leader of the Resistance, not Bishop Williamson. I don't understand this "contradiction" you speak of.

ServusSpiritusSancti,

Fr. Pfeiffer is NOT technically the leader of the "Resistance". Only in a "practical" manner, yes.

It has always been providentially BISHOP Williamson as the leader of the"resistance" long before when he was in the seminary training seminarians and priests to "resist" the tides of liberalism and modernism, and to stand up, even within the SSPX itself.

In that training, it was some of his priests, and others, that continued to stand up through out the world. These few priests may have some publicity right now; that is only because the rest of the SSPX priests have STOPPED teaching those perennial truths of the Faith and the fight against modernism -the many voices gave up- and now there is only a couple of voices left in the "wilderness"; that draws attention on them.

Bishop Williamson needs to maintain his position he had before and "actively" lead. NOT take up a different position to only passively be a "father, adviser, and a friend."

We need him to take up his former position again. It is a survival of the Faith and the Catholic Church; same fight; same plan.

There is a battle going out there with souls falling into the pit -he must again lead as an active Catholic Bishop calling in his priests to re-group and protect them; along with re-grouping the faithful.

There is NO other choice in the vineyard...the harvest is great and the laborers are few. Especially when he is the last BISHOP of tradition left. There is no other to carry the torch. He MUST do it.

It is NOT a time to be passive; as it is a time to be ACTIVE!

Our Lord is worth it..and the salvation of souls are worth it.

Another worthy post. You are a great warrior for God.

Militia Jesu · « **Reply #63 on:** June 16, 2013, 11:07:31 PM »

Quote from: Machabees

There is a FACT here that CAUSES all crises in the Church, including the crisis within the SSPX.

The FACT is one of apathy, complicity, and or silence from baptized souls, priests, and BISHOPS [throughout] in the face of a need within a situation of the Church that God is providing for our attention. Anyone of these by themselves or together are disastrous.

•   Baptized souls, priests, and Bishops do have an outright obligation to defend Holy Mother Church.

•   Baptized souls, priests, and Bishops do have the moral duty to defend another in need of the True Faith.

•   Baptized souls, priests, and Bishops do have a responsibility to stand up to serve the Church within their capacity.

In this thread of Eleison Comments regarding Bishop Williamson, it is true he is a Bishop of the Catholic Church. He knows that he has left his “personality” of the “old man” to receive the “new man” when he took a step forward in the seminary to receive the sub diaconate, the Sacrament of Holy Orders, and also for the August responsibility to be an Apostle of our Lord –a Bishop.

Bishop Williamson has indeed stood up in his obligation and responsibility over the many years. He has also written many great works in his Seminary Letters, Eleison Comments, conferences, Sermons, and such, of which took care of the situations that Holy Mother Church needed to address during those times.

There is another need that just surfaced within the overall crisis in the SSPX and within the Church that God is asking for his attention. Namely, in his function as a Bishop, not only is he dealing with his unjust expulsion from the last 8-months, he also has the outright obligations and responsibilities to the Church to “feed my sheep”.

In this new crisis, Bishop Williamson has certainly stood up for the Faith. No doubt about it.

There is however an item of real concern that the Catholic world is calling out for the Shepherd, Bishop Williamson, to address in this crisis -of which he is not standing up for- to lead as a Catholic Bishop to call in his [Traditional] flock entrusted to him. Not to go around doing what he wants to do –to be a “father, adviser, and a friend.” He has stated this passivity, in lien of being a “Shepherd”, in his unbelievable Eleison Comments called: “Authority Crippled”.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=24929&min=0&num=5

Many priests and faithful have described this in their own words throughout many articles and posts over the medium of the internet. In all, everyone encourages Bishop Williamson in his weaknesses to take stock in his new position that God is calling for his attention.

Bishop Williamson does need our support amongst this large wall of apostation in the secular world. We can only imagine what Archbishop Lefebvre went through; none the less, as ABL being “retired”, he prayed to know if God was asking him to go back into the active apostolate.

Bishop Williamson is not retired. He never was. He still has an active obligation and responsibility to God’s vineyard.

Yes, Bishop Williamson was unjustly “kick out” of his religious order. Being unjust, and therefore illegal, he is still an SSPX Bishop (until God repairs that damage sometime in history). Until then, he and we, must carry on the torch of our Baptism and teach the Faith.

Today, the essential problem, and a grave problem I might add, is that catechetically as Bishop Williamson is still an active Bishop and a standing member of the “real” SSPX, he has the responsibility of a Shepherd to rally his SSPX priests, along with other Catholic priests, and his faithful throughout the Catholic world who are standing up in the same crisis of the Faith –he needs to lead as a Catholic Bishop. He has NO choice in the matter. It is NOT a “personal” wish, or a desire, for him to collect the flock. It is a moral obligation and a responsibility as a Catholic Bishop to do –like it or not.

He CANNOT act in the passivity of a “father, adviser, and friend”. That is for the secular world to take care of. He has a role as a Catholic Bishop that the secular world cannot do. He needs to find his identity and lead. Like it or not!

And lastly, for Bishop Williamson to end his recent Eleison Comments (ASIAN JOURNEY”), to say: “Do I have any candidates offering themselves for consecration as bishops?” be it one of sarcasm or not, to put it out there as a “joke”, is another expression of Bishop Williamson with a type of apathy in NOT taking it seriously in his duty as a Shepherd that God is placing in front of him.

Can he really see what he needs to do as an active Catholic Bishop in this new time of crisis of the Catholic Church?

He needs encouragement from everyone to see his duty.

Priests and faithful are dead without a Bishop actively leading them…Bishop Williamson is not retired. He must lead like an Apostle of Jesus Christ, a Shepherd in the Vineyard!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Zeitun · « **Reply #64 on:** June 16, 2013, 11:14:19 PM »

I spoke with Bishop Williamson IN PERSON months ago and asked him about the future. He communicated to me that he is awaiting a sign from Heaven.

in 1903 Giuseppi Sarto was elected Pope and while he very much desired to lower the age for children to receive the Blessed Sacrament, he didn't take formal action until 1910. Why did he wait so many years? He was awaiting a sign from Heaven, which turned out to be the news of Little Nellie Organ, a 4 year old child who had died after receiving Holy Communion.

I'm not debating the principle of whether it's right or wrong that he should take the lead. That's self-evident. I'm stating the REALITY that he won't be pushed. He's a phlegmatic temperament. He will move when he Our Lady tells him. Listen to his conferences. He lays it all out--he's waiting for Her.

I'm certain Bishop Williamson will NOT be moved by human means. Storm Heaven with prayers for him to take the lead. Make sacrifices. He won't be bullied into it--he's already perfected the act of resisting coercion.

Zeitun · « **Reply #65 on:** June 16, 2013, 11:17:09 PM »

The August 10, 2012 Declaration from Vienna, VA:

Quote

The five founding fathers have elected Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer as their leader for a term of two years (compared to Fellay’s dictatorial 24 years). The fathers have refused to give up the name “Society of St. Pius X” because “we did not change the message; the official line of the [Neo-]SSPX has changed.” Although the founding fathers note that Fellay has not yet signed any “sellout deal” with Newrome, they publicly “withdraw the exercise of obedience to him for motives of Faith until this crisis is over,” in order for the priests to maintain obedience to God in their sworn Anti-Modernist Oath. Ironically, this was the same Anti-Modernist Oath to God that Fellay himself swore when he entered Major Orders with Archbishop Lefebvre.

magdalena · « **Reply #66 on:** June 16, 2013, 11:31:05 PM »

Quote from: cantatedomino

I cannot judge the Bishop nor can I state his motives. We must stick to the objective order. Pointing out the contradiction is as far as anyone can go.

God bless and keep you.

Well stated.

Machabees · « **Reply #67 on:** June 16, 2013, 11:32:33 PM »

Quote from: Zeitun

Bishop Williamson has repeatedly stated he is not a general--he's a Lord Chancellor.

Think Churchill not Patton.

Yes, it is this fact that you have rightly stated where the central problem in the "resistance" really is: "That Bishop Williamson has repeatedly stated he is not a "general"--he's a Lord Chancellor."

By fact, he really is a GENERAL, because he is a Catholic BISHOP. He needs to recognize that and stop acting like a "solider".

Until then, there is no UNITY in the "Resistance" without a Bishop.

It is the way God had created it...there MUST be a Bishop to lead.

Not to be a passive Bishop...with the lambs to run around "independently". We will for sure get picked off one by one and eaten by the wolf. The lambs do not hold the staff nor the Miter to defend themselves from the wolf; only the Shepherd has the power to protect.

With another layer of this crisis revealing itself, lets please encourage Bishop Williamson to find his role as the GENERAL he really is, and lead us, as only a Bishop can do.

Quote from: Zeitun

Who has the authority to chastise an Apostle of Christ? Another bishop or the Pope.

God gives to us for the salvation of souls, that in charity and humility, even a Baptized Catholic, or even a donkey can (Numbers 21-35), when their superior(s) is making a wrong decision for the good of the Church.

Zeitun · « **Reply #68 on:** June 16, 2013, 11:39:41 PM »

I just can't support Bishop Williamson setting up a "parallel church".

Zeitun · « **Reply #69 on:** June 16, 2013, 11:45:07 PM »

And I'd like to also add that the premise stated here that Bishop Williamson isn't doing his duty as a bishop is based on the ASSUMPTION of those posting that they have all the facts and the TRUTH. I do not have any of the facts, I don't know all the truth, and +W knows much more than he is telling.

I'm sticking with Fr. Pfeiffer. The rest of you can start your own Resistance and elect a better leader, someone more agressive and more to your matinee-idol liking.

chrstnoel1 · « **Reply #70 on:** June 16, 2013, 11:47:20 PM »

Quote from: Zeitun

I spoke with Bishop Williamson IN PERSON months ago and asked him about the future. He communicated to me that he is awaiting a sign from Heaven.

in 1903 Giuseppi Sarto was elected Pope and while he very much desired to lower the age for children to receive the Blessed Sacrament, he didn't take formal action until 1910. Why did he wait so many years? He was awaiting a sign from Heaven, which turned out to be the news of Little Nellie Organ, a 4 year old child who had died after receiving Holy Communion.

I'm not debating the principle of whether it's right or wrong that he should take the lead. That's self-evident. I'm stating the REALITY that he won't be pushed. He's a phlegmatic temperament. He will move when he Our Lady tells him. Listen to his conferences. He lays it all out--he's waiting for Her.

I'm certain Bishop Williamson will NOT be moved by human means. Storm Heaven with prayers for him to take the lead. Make sacrifices. He won't be bullied into it--he's already perfected the act of resisting coercion.

Good comment. "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as in heaven" as the Lord's Prayer goes. Yes, lets us storm heaven with prayers for him to take the lead.

[/i]

Noel Christie Danker

Zeitun · « **Reply #71 on:** June 16, 2013, 11:53:23 PM »

Quote from: chrstnoel1

Good comment. "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as in heaven" as the Lord's Prayer goes. Yes, lets us storm heaven with prayers for him to take the lead. [/i]

Noel Christie Danker

Amen! :geezer:

Machabees · « **Reply #72 on:** June 16, 2013, 11:54:58 PM »

Quote from: Zeitun

I just can't support Bishop Williamson setting up a "parallel church".

Can you please explain what you mean by "Bishop Williamson setting up a "parallel church"?

He is still a [traditional] Catholic Bishop; he is still in the religious order of the "real" SSPX; to which he must re-group.

Has something changed that I do not know about?

If you are referring to Fr. Pfeiffer trying to start another religious congregation, that is NOT a "parallel" church. Supplied jurisdiction provides for this protection until conciliar Rome finds it's true identity of Her Tradition again. Then all of these present problems will go away.

Novus Weirdo · « **Reply #73 on:** June 16, 2013, 11:57:50 PM »

Quote from: Zeitun

And I'd like to also add that the premise stated here that Bishop Williamson isn't doing his duty as a bishop is based on the ASSUMPTION of those posting that they have all the facts and the TRUTH. I do not have any of the facts, I don't know all the truth, and +W knows much more than he is telling.

I'm sticking with Fr. Pfeiffer. The rest of you can start your own Resistance and elect a better leader, someone more agressive and more to your matinee-idol liking.

Excellent point.
These people want +Williamson, Fr Pfeiffer, or others to be their marionette. When that doesn't happen, the petulance begins. Someone reminds them that they are not in charge of Resistance priests and they regurgitate half-baked rejoinders masquerading as intelligent put-downs that sound like they come from a C-list screenwriter channeling John Hughes.

Hate to break it to 'em, but George C. Scott is dead. There will be no new Patton, no new Churchill, no new MacArthur - "They shall not return." And as for starting their own Resistance? Forget about it! They will cannibalize themselves in the process.

Machabees · « **Reply #74 on:** June 17, 2013, 12:35:50 AM »

Quote from: Zeitun

And I'd like to also add that the premise stated here that Bishop Williamson isn't doing his duty as a bishop is based on the ASSUMPTION of those posting that they have all the facts and the TRUTH. I do not have any of the facts, I don't know all the truth, and +W knows much more than he is telling.

I'm sticking with Fr. Pfeiffer. The rest of you can start your own Resistance and elect a better leader, someone more agressive and more to your matinee-idol liking.

Can you also please explain your above post?

I think your misunderstanding is based on the word "duty", and of what really is the "duty" of an active Catholic Bishop.

I have tried to bring this out some what catechetically in my other post about this. Where you able to see my other post on this? I can try to explain it differently for you.

It is like a married person who entered into the Sacrament of Matrimony. Both spouses have a "duty" to provide one another the Catholic Faith and to provide the Catholic Faith to their children. When one of the spouses decides to be "passive" and no longer "active" in the duties of that role, it creates stress in the "marriage" and within the "family".

God did not provide in the Sacrament for either one of the spouses to become "passive"; only active.

So too with a Bishop of the Catholic Church. A Bishop has entered into the Sacrament of Holy Orders, then in consecration of a Bishop. In that Sacrament of Holy Orders, a Bishop has a "duty" to provide the Catholic Faith to the Baptized souls in the Church. If a Bishop decides to be "passive" and no longer "active" in the duties of that role, it creates stress in the "family" of the whole of the Church.

So, God did not provide for any priest or Bishop to become "passive"; only active.

Bishop Williamson, as an active Bishop of the Catholic Church, MUST re-group his scattered (SSPX) priests and faithful, and lead the fight, like David in the Old Testament. If not, it only creates stress in the Church.

As far as Fr. Pfeiffer, he, and the many other priests have spoken to Bishop Williamson about these very things, and have stated it so to us. Bishop Williamson NEEDS to lead. He has no other choice...

Please ask Fr. Pfeiffer.