The thing to be remembered now about DM is that she, right or wrong, is a woman who believes that she really saw and heard something of vital importance.  I've talked to her at length myself, and concluded that she was very sincere.

Do you have a picture of DM under your pillow next to the Valtorta?

The fact that a Bishop (Williamson)or Bishops (Fellay/Williamson/Tissier) actually gave credence to a woman's overactive imagination (Dawn Marie) is astounding to me.  What an impoverished spirituality they must have not to mention a bankrupt view of Christianity.  All these apparitions are completely alien Tradition as taught by the Apostles, the Church Fathers therefore they shouldn't even be given a second thought by anyone let alone a Bishop.  The Fathers of the Church and even St. John of the Cross warn against visions, apparitions, dreams, etc.  The fact that the Roman Catholic Church through Popes, Bishops, priests, have taken the visions of women no less, usually nuns who find themselves bored with the monastic life (Faustina comments in her own diary about the "monotony" of the daily schedule) , is again, astounding and quite sad.  It is a clear indicationof  just how far the Roman Church is from the True Vine.  

Within the disciples of ABL, sincerity and presumed good will go a long way.  They do not see wickedness, and heresy, and modernists, but, entertain notions of modernist "tendencies", half rotten apples, and well meaning destroyers. The in the light of Tradition qualifiers.

The former black and white of the rigid unflinching doctrine and Catholic action of the Fathers and Saints, gives way to prudential truths, apologia for sincere apostates, practical compromise, and paralysis in the face of the revolution.

Tradition is become grey..................

Alice:

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The fact that a Bishop (Williamson)or Bishops (Fellay/Williamson/Tissier) actually gave credence to a woman's overactive imagination (Dawn Marie) is astounding to me. What an impoverished spirituality they must have not to mention a bankrupt view of Christianity. All these apparitions are completely alien Tradition as taught by the Apostles, the Church Fathers therefore they shouldn't even be given a second thought by anyone let alone a Bishop.

An "impoverished spirituality," is it?  I was beginning to view you and ladislaus as 'spiritual lowlives.'  but hey, I'm willing to be convinced that, spiritually, you may be a cut above the rest of us.  Do something; say something that will convince me and others that your spirituality exceeds that of the bishops you mention.  So these apparitions are "completely alien" to apostolic "Tradition." you say?  I see.  Well look, Alice, I, for one, am willing to sit at your feet, at least briefly, in order to absorb what must be  your exalted spirituality, not to mention, wisdom.  I look at it this way:  If this woman can so casually and breezily dismiss a number of tradition Catholic bishops out of hand, she must really have something going for her which I have yet to discover. :thinking:

That's just it Hollingsworth, it is not ME that you need to listen.  I am only stating what the Church teaches, the Fathers of the Church, the Apostles, the Creed, all of which is merely to be guarded and passed on, not dramatized.  There is no room for novelties and fantastic fairy tales. You need to listen to the Fathers of the Church, the ancient liturgy, it's prayers, canons, not these "doom and gloom" seers whether they be a young woman, or 3 cute little kids.  

But that would be very boring wouldn't it?  Where's the action movie, where does my voice fit in to all of this?  I must be heard!  No.  Something I have learned, is that when a person follows what the Church has always taught (the Apostolic faith) it's not very "exciting" at all in terms of the western mindset.  Westerners want drama.  And yet a life of repentance (and it does take a lifetime) to which we are all called is most often lived out in silence and obscurity.  No one knows your name, except God and He is all that matters, because in the end, He's all there is.  

saintalice,

And yet a life of repentance (and it does take a lifetime) to which we are all called is most often lived out in silence and obscurity.  No one knows your name, except God and He is all that matters, because in the end, He's all there is.  

Hold that thought!

That is the wisdom of spiritual insight. With such, one can find salvation.
This is not the boisterous prattling of the world, but more to the quiet longings of the souls of God's elect.

Alice:

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And yet a life of repentance (and it does take a lifetime) to which we are all called is most often lived out in silence and obscurity.  No one knows your name, except God and He is all that matters, because in the end, He's all there is.

BULL!!

Sounds like quietism to me.

Quote from: hollingsworth

Alice:

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And yet a life of repentance (and it does take a lifetime) to which we are all called is most often lived out in silence and obscurity.  No one knows your name, except God and He is all that matters, because in the end, He's all there is.

BULL!!

Wow!  Is the Gospel so foreign to you Hollingsworth?  

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I tell you, No: but, except you repent, you shall all likewise perish., Luke 13:5

(The original Greek word there is metanote, which comes from metanoia, repent, convert, literally to turn and change your mind.  Not penance as the Douay-Rheims states.  The Gospels were all written in Greek as we all know).

Richard,
If what I said is "quietism" then every monk, cloistered nun and hermit over the past nearly 2 millennia could be accused of the same.  

Peace be to you all.  I will drop out of this thread now.  I've said more than I should have.  

We are not monks and cloistered nuns,we are lay people in the church militant,it is up to us to speak out and fight the enemies of Christ not be quite and try to pray it away(faith without works it dead).

When our clerics tell us that there is nothing to be done, but pray and wait upon visions and prophecies, while presuming upon our Lord and our Lady to solve all of the problems besetting the Church, that is not really according with the reality that we are the Church Militant upon the Earth, which requires us to do much, over and above our religious duty to God.

Actually being militant, an incarnated militancy is our given state, of which we are obligated to fulfill, starting with the Bishops and priests who are supposed to guide our bodies and Holy actions in the struggle to liberate Holy Church and the Religion from the oppression under which it is held, but first placing themselves directly against the Church's enemies and oppressors.

There is of course a place for that segment of Holy souls who through contemplation and prayer are necessary to complete the Church Militant's purpose, in an intercessory and spiritual role. Each to its own, to its own, for the one great purpose in the love of God.

We are  most often being told to wait, and to wait, Tradition has morphed from being the visible Church Militant, into the melancholic Church waiting.

The conciliar revolution has succeeded due to its own relentless militant activities, and it is our lack of the same that has allowed our great losses.

There is no truly militant Catholic resistance to it. Will it ever come?

We are still waiting after 60 years, while our Lady has waited 100, for the militancy which would turn the tide and set the stage for restoration of God's throne among men.