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Let's just say I'm very trigger happy when I hear people downplaying devotion to Our Lady, the Rosary, Fatima (about the greatest of all "modern day" apparitions)...

I know CuriousTrad wasn't going that far, but I wanted to make my point nevertheless.

Just because the Church didn't need something 1000 years ago doesn't mean we don't need it today. To think otherwise is to have a "time traveler's" mentality. We human beings are subject to time -- who cares how necessary (or unnecessary) the Rosary was 1000 years ago!

Matthew that was not my point at all. I was replying:

(...) theologically speaking the Rosary is not the sum totality of the Faith, if it were, what did our forebears in the Faith do until the time of St. Dominic i.e. before there was a Rosary ? (I pray mine everyday for the fulfilment of the requests at Fatima !)

to this statement:

Requesting the prayer of the Rosary, is not defending the Holy Catholic Faith?

My argument using "sum totality" might have been clearer if I had said that the Rosary is not "co-extensive" with the Faith. The "Faith" as Faith preceded the institution of the Rosary but that it is a vital tool for the propagation of the Faith is certain:

Leo XIII makes very clear the role of the Rosary in Magnae Dei Matris from 1892

14. To this commendation of the Rosary which follows from the very nature of the prayer, We may add that the Rosary offers an easy way to present the chief mysteries of the Christian religion and to impress them upon the mind; and this commendation is one of the most beautiful of all. For it is mainly by faith that a man sets out on the straight and sure path to God and learns to revere in mind and heart His supreme majesty, His sovereignty over the whole of creation, His unsounded power, wisdom, and providence. For he who comes to God must believe that God exists and is a rewarder to those who seek Him. Moreover, because God's eternal Son assumed our humanity and shone before us as the Way, the Truth, and the Life, our faith must include the lofty mysteries of the august Trinity of divine Persons and of the Father's only-begotten Son made Man: "This is eternal life: that they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou bast sent."

Not all of the mysteries of Faith are contained in the Rosary - but the chief mysteries are - as you pointed out following Leo XIII.

The precise efficacy of the Rosary is, according to Pope Benedict XV:

Being a prayer of supplication and of intercession, it is undeniably perfect: whether by the praises it addresses and the invocations it expresses, the aid it procures and the teachings it contains, or by the graces and the victories it leads up to.

Letter to reverend C. Becchi O.P. September 18, 1915 (Cited The Rosary - Papal Teachings Series, Solesmes p 161)

Following Benedict XV the efficacy of the Rosary comes from the fact that it is prayer, and prayer puts us in touch with God, who is the source and author of all grace.

I do not recall speaking of Fatima in a negative way in my comment but that is the pre-eminent intervention of Our Lady in the modern age to recall prime principles of the spiritual life and to achieve world peace through the triumph of the devotion to her Immaculate Heart. I said I pray the Rosary every day to this end.

I am, however, wary of those who would invert the hierarchy of public Revelation over private revelations and have us believe that private revelations are greater than Public Revelation. For me - that is what this whole thread has been about. I am not for one moment that you or I agree in any way over any of this - but thank you for a lively and frank debate.

 :confused1:

"I am, however, wary of those who would invert the hierarchy of public Revelation over private revelations..."

Such as curioustrad? You are referring to this thread, right?

Yes indeed. Throughout this thread we have had people referring to and attempting to justify an alleged set of private "revelations".

My point has been (from the first) many people in the wake of the catastrophe of Vatican II and the loss of mystery and awe because of the banality of the new liturgies, the prevailing atmosphere of theological confusion because of some of the teachings of Vatican II (ecuмenism, collegiality and religious liberty) have sought refuge in private revelation as a way of replacing banality with mystery and as far as doctrine is concerned for explaining and perhaps resolving the crisis that has come upon the Catholic Church. Apparitions are sometimes used as a parallel Magisterium, sometimes opposed to the Magisterium (here I am thinking of Medjugorje with which even the Novus Ordo authorities have had serious difficulties).

Simply because of the presence of chaos in the Church today does not excuse us from obedience to the teachings of the Church with regard to the treatment of seers and claimed apparitions - a healthy skepticism is the ticket.

Someone (in this thread) was kind enough to quote St. John of the Cross who also excoriates those attracted to private revelations and warns of the dangers of placing too much and a rash confidence in them.

Someone else referenced the use of private revelations that some people make to avoid dealing with questions such as has the Pope defected in matters of Faith and morals ? Has the universal body of bishops erred ? I do not answer "yes" to these questions - because I do not believe the answer can be "yes" to those questions (but I entertain theological speculation on the point since it might just be the truth - and Francis almost daily pushes the envelope on this as I'm sure most of us would agree) - but as one rightly pointed out an "apparition" is sometime a way of avoiding the theological inconveniences these questions will raise.

Recourse to apparitions and "Our Lady said this..." on the matter, may be true and therefore helpful if true, but they may also be false and potentially damaging to souls.

In the end the only issue for me is that in the question of claimed "apparitions" caution is advised - the exercise of the cardinal virtue of prudence !