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Author Topic: Dorothy Day Sermon at SSPX Chapel  (Read 15145 times)

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Offline John Grace

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Dorothy Day Sermon at SSPX Chapel
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 12:45:38 PM »
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  • Viva Cristo Rey,

    Quote
    it seems that the liberals have already infiltrated the sspx...


    Who are these liberals who have infiltrated the SSPX? Regarding Dorothy Day, there are a group of people like J Christopher Pryor, Jeanette Pryor Sean Romer, Chris Blosser, Patti Petersen and others, who speak of infiltration? Apparently fascists and extremists have infiltrated the SSPX. It's laughable.


    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #16 on: May 02, 2013, 12:56:12 PM »
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  • If one is worried about infiltration, they should take it up with District Superiors.


    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #17 on: May 02, 2013, 01:06:05 PM »
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  • A good comment via the link Clare posted.

    http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=5597

    Bertha
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    You have done us all a huge favour. How do we get the bourgeois trads to read this and change their thinking? Any ideas?


    England has a problem with bourgeois trads. Many of the parents, who send their children to the SSPX school there are pro-capitalist. Trads, who prop of the Capitalist system are part of the problem. It varies in Ireland but in England it is like speaking to a wall. Things need to change.

    Whilst fragmented, what stands to the English is they have varying movements and English Nationalism is awakening.




    Online Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #18 on: May 02, 2013, 01:29:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
    As for myself,  I am for Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre to be canonized to be a Saint.  


    Dorothy day had many men in her life and even an abortion.

    rich girl embraces poverty and communism converts to catholicsm writes newpaper for  fighting for workers rights.





    What about the Molly Maguires??

    how about all those poor Irish Catholic American women were  baptized Catholic.  They raised their family andwere good wives and Mothers.  They survived the great depression while being persectued by the KKK...

    May God bless you and keep you

    Online Viva Cristo Rey

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    Dorothy Day Sermon at SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #19 on: May 02, 2013, 01:40:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    If one is worried about infiltration, they should take it up with District Superiors.


    your district superiors are too busy embracing vatican II and all of its modernism and possibilities like 100 percent paid medical care, food and living, expensive cars adn insurance,  5 week paid vacations, expensive vacation homes , etc.

    And this is why many won't leave the novus ordo....

    The vatican II hierarchy like those like Cardinal Dolan who is for Dorothy day goes to expesnive black tie dinner and hangs out with rich politicians like obama and the other one...

    In our area, the justice for all gang will be having a expensive dinenr in honor to the liberal bishop who closed down all the catholic schools and churches (built pre vatican II)  

    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline clare

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    « Reply #20 on: May 02, 2013, 04:11:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
    she had several lovers, and even had an abortion.  She was connected to the American communist party.  google search Dorothy Day under wikepedia...

    If dorothy day becomes a saint, then it would be like condoning women having abortions and Catholics being pro choice too.  

    What nonsense!

    St Paul persecuted Christians.
    St Mary Magdalene was a prostitute.
    St Augustine fathered a child out of wedlock.
    St Margaret of Cortona also had a child out of wedlock.

    Saints are allowed to have pasts!

    There may be other question marks over her cause for canonisation, but her pre-conversion past is not one of them.

    Offline Novus Weirdo

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    « Reply #21 on: May 02, 2013, 04:13:02 PM »
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  • Still waiting for Solanus Casey... Father Kapaun...

    Who's desk do I need to slam a shoe on in order to get the deserving recognized first?

    Offline CathMomof7

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    « Reply #22 on: May 02, 2013, 04:13:22 PM »
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  • I have been reading about Dorothy Day for many years---long before I became a traditional Catholic.  So I feel that I can speak with my own opinion that is thoroughly researched.  I think Dorothy Day is a symbol of all that is currently wrong with the modern Catholic Church.  Her canonization will solidify and codify a new direction of the Church--one in which the Church's primary concern is no longer the salvation of souls and the Sacraments to one in which the Church's primary concern is the with the needs of the poor and the disregarding of morality.  In other words, the new church's morality is poverty and liberation theology.

    Dorothy Day was a Communist sympathizer.  She was a feminist.  She was an anarchist.  She was a pacifist.  She was a complete believer in distributism, an economic theory that erupted in the late 19th century as a response to the abuses that were happening in free-market capitalistic society.

    There is absolutely no evidence, other than Dorothy Day's self admission, that she changed her opinion of Communism, feminism, anarchy, pacifism, socialism, and or distributism.

    Based on my own readings of some things she wrote in the Catholic Worker Newspaper, I concluded my own self that Dorothy Day thought the idea of communism was a fundamental moral good.  What she didn't like about it was the propensity to abandon God and to embrace atheism.

    She fully supported the idea of communitarianism, an ideology that emphasizes community over individualism.  This is what Ms. Day believed in and implemented across the U.S.--communal living, shared property, concern for the poor.

    These things sound Catholic, but they are not really.  Communitarianism is wickedly deceptive.  Please do your own research about it.  I first heard the term about 5 years ago, just before I found tradition.  

    My research about Ms. Day happened by accident when I was actually researching a man named Amitai Etzioni, when I was gathering some information on the right to privacy.  Out of that research,  I read plenty of online books and research articles and theological books regarding communitarianism.  

    Here is what I concluded.  Communitarianism and distributism are the fundamental building blocks of liberation theology.  

    Dorothy Day advocated these two ideas--communitarianism and distributism.  To discern whether her ideas are catholic, one must come to understand both communitarianism and distributism.  Are they theologically sound?  Are they Catholic?

    I have concluded, as have many others, that they are not.

    There are two books on this topic that are worth the read.  Liberation Theology and it's Critics and Liberation Theology at the Crossroads.  Both authors of these books agree on this fundamental idea----Liberation theology has undergone a movement, a slow progression.  It began with Marxist reductionism.  It found a home in radical communitarianism and faith-based communities.  

    These are very troubling times for Catholics.  Some things sound really orthodox--caring for the poor--but the methods and ideas proposed and put forth as Catholic are really quite confusing and dangerous.  Many Catholics don't even know these terms let alone what they mean or where they came from!  Good Catholics just go along because they don't know what else to do.

    Ms. Day will be canonized, I believe, because this Pope is a proponent of Liberation theology.  The New Church is oriented thus.  

    I can only conclude that traditional Catholics are having trouble really discerning this because they are hung up on capitalism.  They believe that capitalism is unCatholic fundamentally.  They seem to embrace distributism as a positive goal because Chesterton supported it or Belloc wrote about it or because they believe that Pope Leo XIII outright condemned capitalism as intrinsically evil.

    That's too bad.  

    I've made up my own mind.  Ms. Day's ideas should be condemned.  Ms. Day should not be named a saint.  Traditional priests should be careful about giving sermons regarding Ms. Day's virtues.



    Offline Telesphorus

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    Dorothy Day Sermon at SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #23 on: May 02, 2013, 04:59:47 PM »
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  • Quote
    I can only conclude that traditional Catholics are having trouble really discerning this because they are hung up on capitalism. They believe that capitalism is unCatholic fundamentally. They seem to embrace distributism as a positive goal because Chesterton supported it or Belloc wrote about it or because they believe that Pope Leo XIII outright condemned capitalism as intrinsically evil.


    They aren't traditional Catholics.  Could you imagine Archbishop Lefebvre approving of this woman's views?

    Crypto-leftists can be found in all movements.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    « Reply #24 on: May 02, 2013, 05:14:21 PM »
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  • I've heard of Dorothy Day, though I don't know enough about her to offer an opinion as to whether or not she should be Canonized. As for this:

    Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
    As for myself,  I am for Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre to be canonized to be a Saint.


    I completely agree. :)
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #25 on: May 02, 2013, 05:28:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: CathMomof7
    I have been reading about Dorothy Day for many years---long before I became a traditional Catholic.  So I feel that I can speak with my own opinion that is thoroughly researched.  I think Dorothy Day is a symbol of all that is currently wrong with the modern Catholic Church.  Her canonization will solidify and codify a new direction of the Church--one in which the Church's primary concern is no longer the salvation of souls and the Sacraments to one in which the Church's primary concern is the with the needs of the poor and the disregarding of morality.  In other words, the new church's morality is poverty and liberation theology.

    Dorothy Day was a Communist sympathizer.  She was a feminist.  She was an anarchist.  She was a pacifist.  She was a complete believer in distributism, an economic theory that erupted in the late 19th century as a response to the abuses that were happening in free-market capitalistic society.

    There is absolutely no evidence, other than Dorothy Day's self admission, that she changed her opinion of Communism, feminism, anarchy, pacifism, socialism, and or distributism.

    Based on my own readings of some things she wrote in the Catholic Worker Newspaper, I concluded my own self that Dorothy Day thought the idea of communism was a fundamental moral good.  What she didn't like about it was the propensity to abandon God and to embrace atheism.

    She fully supported the idea of communitarianism, an ideology that emphasizes community over individualism.  This is what Ms. Day believed in and implemented across the U.S.--communal living, shared property, concern for the poor.

    These things sound Catholic, but they are not really.  Communitarianism is wickedly deceptive.  Please do your own research about it.  I first heard the term about 5 years ago, just before I found tradition.  

    My research about Ms. Day happened by accident when I was actually researching a man named Amitai Etzioni, when I was gathering some information on the right to privacy.  Out of that research,  I read plenty of online books and research articles and theological books regarding communitarianism.  

    Here is what I concluded.  Communitarianism and distributism are the fundamental building blocks of liberation theology.  

    Dorothy Day advocated these two ideas--communitarianism and distributism.  To discern whether her ideas are catholic, one must come to understand both communitarianism and distributism.  Are they theologically sound?  Are they Catholic?

    I have concluded, as have many others, that they are not.

    There are two books on this topic that are worth the read.  Liberation Theology and it's Critics and Liberation Theology at the Crossroads.  Both authors of these books agree on this fundamental idea----Liberation theology has undergone a movement, a slow progression.  It began with Marxist reductionism.  It found a home in radical communitarianism and faith-based communities.  

    These are very troubling times for Catholics.  Some things sound really orthodox--caring for the poor--but the methods and ideas proposed and put forth as Catholic are really quite confusing and dangerous.  Many Catholics don't even know these terms let alone what they mean or where they came from!  Good Catholics just go along because they don't know what else to do.

    Ms. Day will be canonized, I believe, because this Pope is a proponent of Liberation theology.  The New Church is oriented thus.  

    I can only conclude that traditional Catholics are having trouble really discerning this because they are hung up on capitalism.  They believe that capitalism is unCatholic fundamentally.  They seem to embrace distributism as a positive goal because Chesterton supported it or Belloc wrote about it or because they believe that Pope Leo XIII outright condemned capitalism as intrinsically evil.

    That's too bad.  

    I've made up my own mind.  Ms. Day's ideas should be condemned.  Ms. Day should not be named a saint.  Traditional priests should be careful about giving sermons regarding Ms. Day's virtues.



    Yanks seem to think anybody opposing capitalism is a communist.
    How is distributism not Catholic?


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #26 on: May 02, 2013, 05:31:55 PM »
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  • No, we think people who praise Communist states are Communist sympathizers

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    « Reply #27 on: May 02, 2013, 05:36:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: CathMomof7
    I have been reading about Dorothy Day for many years---long before I became a traditional Catholic.  So I feel that I can speak with my own opinion that is thoroughly researched.  I think Dorothy Day is a symbol of all that is currently wrong with the modern Catholic Church.  Her canonization will solidify and codify a new direction of the Church--one in which the Church's primary concern is no longer the salvation of souls and the Sacraments to one in which the Church's primary concern is the with the needs of the poor and the disregarding of morality.  In other words, the new church's morality is poverty and liberation theology.

    Dorothy Day was a Communist sympathizer.  She was a feminist.  She was an anarchist.  She was a pacifist.  She was a complete believer in distributism, an economic theory that erupted in the late 19th century as a response to the abuses that were happening in free-market capitalistic society.

    There is absolutely no evidence, other than Dorothy Day's self admission, that she changed her opinion of Communism, feminism, anarchy, pacifism, socialism, and or distributism.

    Based on my own readings of some things she wrote in the Catholic Worker Newspaper, I concluded my own self that Dorothy Day thought the idea of communism was a fundamental moral good.  What she didn't like about it was the propensity to abandon God and to embrace atheism.

    She fully supported the idea of communitarianism, an ideology that emphasizes community over individualism.  This is what Ms. Day believed in and implemented across the U.S.--communal living, shared property, concern for the poor.

    These things sound Catholic, but they are not really.  Communitarianism is wickedly deceptive.  Please do your own research about it.  I first heard the term about 5 years ago, just before I found tradition.  

    My research about Ms. Day happened by accident when I was actually researching a man named Amitai Etzioni, when I was gathering some information on the right to privacy.  Out of that research,  I read plenty of online books and research articles and theological books regarding communitarianism.  

    Here is what I concluded.  Communitarianism and distributism are the fundamental building blocks of liberation theology.  

    Dorothy Day advocated these two ideas--communitarianism and distributism.  To discern whether her ideas are catholic, one must come to understand both communitarianism and distributism.  Are they theologically sound?  Are they Catholic?

    I have concluded, as have many others, that they are not.

    There are two books on this topic that are worth the read.  Liberation Theology and it's Critics and Liberation Theology at the Crossroads.  Both authors of these books agree on this fundamental idea----Liberation theology has undergone a movement, a slow progression.  It began with Marxist reductionism.  It found a home in radical communitarianism and faith-based communities.  

    These are very troubling times for Catholics.  Some things sound really orthodox--caring for the poor--but the methods and ideas proposed and put forth as Catholic are really quite confusing and dangerous.  Many Catholics don't even know these terms let alone what they mean or where they came from!  Good Catholics just go along because they don't know what else to do.

    Ms. Day will be canonized, I believe, because this Pope is a proponent of Liberation theology.  The New Church is oriented thus.  

    I can only conclude that traditional Catholics are having trouble really discerning this because they are hung up on capitalism.  They believe that capitalism is unCatholic fundamentally.  They seem to embrace distributism as a positive goal because Chesterton supported it or Belloc wrote about it or because they believe that Pope Leo XIII outright condemned capitalism as intrinsically evil.

    That's too bad.  

    I've made up my own mind.  Ms. Day's ideas should be condemned.  Ms. Day should not be named a saint.  Traditional priests should be careful about giving sermons regarding Ms. Day's virtues.



    CMO7-

    Just playing devil's advocate for a second:

    1) Was not this woman not a contemporary and friend of Belloc and Chesterton?

    2) Are you saying Belloc and Chesterton were liberals because they were distributists?

    3) Is it possible you mistake certain aspects of distributism for communism?

    Innocent questions!

    I have already acknowledged I have very limited familiarity with this issue of distributism.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline magdalena

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    « Reply #28 on: May 02, 2013, 06:33:41 PM »
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  • It's not really about whether or not a "penitent" can be canonized.  Of course one can.  We are all penitents to an extent.  It's whether or not Dorothy Day qualifies as a saint. That is what is up for debate.   And I would be careful about calling Dr. Carol Byrne a "silly woman" without qualifying that statement.  And sorry, Sean, but the dear Father has pushed her glowing attributes on more than one occasion.  
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    « Reply #29 on: May 02, 2013, 07:13:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: magdalena
    It's not really about whether or not a "penitent" can be canonized.  Of course one can.  We are all penitents to an extent.  It's whether or not Dorothy Day qualifies as a saint. That is what is up for debate.   And I would be careful about calling Dr. Carol Byrne a "silly woman" without qualifying that statement.  And sorry, Sean, but the dear Father has pushed her glowing attributes on more than one occasion.  


    Magdalena-

    I beg to differ.

    I was quite explicit that this thread was NOT about her fitness for sainthood, but about the orthodoxy of her doctrines.

    On page 2 of this thread, I said:

    "For clarification:

    I appended the critical article for its take on Day's background and teaching, not to discuss her fitness for canonization, as the sermon in St. Paul was not promoting her canonization, but merely drawing attention to her alleged good works and charity.

    But for the purpose of the present conversation, I am only interested in critiquing her doctrine."

    Has she taught anything against the Church in her post-conversion life or not?

    PS: If you want to discuss her virtues or fitness for canonization, start another thread, as Fr was most definitely NOT defending her canonization

    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."