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Author Topic: DONOSO CORTES - I  (Read 2519 times)

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Offline Adolphus

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DONOSO CORTES - I
« on: September 06, 2014, 10:53:39 AM »
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  • DONOSO CORTÉS – I

    One of the most important Catholic dogmas is that of original sin, whereby all human beings (except Our Lord and his Mother) have a nature seriously wounded from birth through our mysterious solidarity with Adam, father of all mankind, when with Eve he fell into the first of all human sins in the garden of Eden. Of course for most people today that Fall is just a fairy-tale, or mythology, and that is why they have built a Disneyworld all around us. In principle Catholics believe in original sin, but so seductive is Disneyworld that many hardly take original sin seriously in practice. After all, ith not at all nithe to believe we are all thinnerth. We are all thwimming in luv, luv, luv, ar’n’twe!

    But a man who saw very clearly original sin in action was the Spanish nobleman, writer and diplomat, Donoso Cortés (1808–1853). His life spanned that first half of the 19 th century when in the wake of the French Revolution (1789), Europe was slowly but steadily replacing the old Christian order (“ancien régime”) with the ʝʊdɛօ-masonic nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr. Outwardly the old order was put back in place by the Congress of Vienna (1815), but inwardly it was not at all the same as before, because men’s minds were now resting on quite different foundations, liberal foundations, notably the separation of Church and State. When Donoso entered Spanish politics at a young age, he proclaimed himself to be a liberal, but as he observed the Revolutionary ideas working out in practice, he became more and more conservative until in 1847 he converted to Spain’s ancient Catholic religion. From then on until his early death his written and spoken words carried all over Europe his prophetic Catholic analysis of the radical modern errors forging the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.

    At the back of all these errors he discerned two: the denial of God’s supernatural care for his creatures, and the denial of original sin. From Donoso’s Letter to Cardinal Fornari (1852) come the following two paragraphs which connect to original sin the rise of democracy and the diminution of the Church (the translation here is from a French translation):—

    “If the light of men’s reason is in no way darkened, its light is enough, without need of the Faith, to discover the truth. If the Faith is not needed, then man’s reason is sovereign and independent. The progress of truth then depends on the progress of reason, which depends upon the exercise of reason; such an exercise is to be found in discussion; hence discussion constitutes the true basic law of modern societies, the matchless crucible in which by a process of melting, truths are separated from errors. From this principle of discussion flow freedom of the press, the inviolability of freedom of speech and the real sovereignty of parliaments.”

    Donoso continues with a paralle l diagnosis of the consequences of man’s will being supposed to be free from original sin: “If man’s will is not sick, then he needs none of the supernatural help of grace to pursue good, its attraction being enough: if he needs no grace, then he can do without prayer and the sacraments which provide it.” If prayer is not needed, it is useless, and so are contemplation and the contemplative religious Orders, which duly disappear. If man needs no sacraments, then he has no need of priests to administer them, and they are duly banned. And scorn of the priesthood results everywhere in scorn of the Church, which amounts in all places to the scorn of God.

    From such false principles Donoso Cortés foresaw an unparallelled disaster in the very near future. Actually it has been delayed for over 150 years, but how much longer?

    Kyrie eleison.


    Offline Columba

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    « Reply #1 on: September 06, 2014, 09:43:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: +W
    From such false principles Donoso Cortés foresaw an unparallelled disaster in the very near future. Actually it has been delayed for over 150 years, but how much longer?

    Western society has collapsed tremendously. Historically, when societies collapse economic foundations are destroyed and the civilization is consumed. However, Western Christendom built up such a momentum of lawfulness and science, that technological progress is able to continue alongside a collapse of societal institutions that would have destroyed any previous civilization many times over. The ongoing technological advances buoy the economy enough to keep civilization limping along even as society continues to sink.

    This dynamic enables our society to fall much further than any previous, at least since the flood. How far can our society fall before civilization gives way? Nobody knows because it is impossible to predict the effects of future technology, so don't count on a coming collapse to wipe the slate clean any time soon. Prepare for the long haul.


    Offline Adolphus

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    DONOSO CORTES - I
    « Reply #2 on: September 07, 2014, 10:35:21 PM »
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  • An important comment has been made by Fr. Ceriani regard this Eleison Comment:

    The text as written by Bp. Williamson says:

    «One of the most important Catholic dogmas is that of original sin, whereby all human beings (except Our Lord and his Mother) have a nature seriously wounded from birth».

    This is wrong, since it is from conception itself that we humans have a nature wounded, and not from birth.

    Offline Cristian

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    « Reply #3 on: September 09, 2014, 11:58:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: Adolphus
    An important comment has been made by Fr. Ceriani regard this Eleison Comment:

    The text as written by Bp. Williamson says:

    «One of the most important Catholic dogmas is that of original sin, whereby all human beings (except Our Lord and his Mother) have a nature seriously wounded from birth».

    This is wrong, since it is from conception itself that we humans have a nature wounded, and not from birth.


    Three days have passed since this huge theological error and no apologies from +W, three days and no condemnation of his words in this forum...

    Truly scandalous!


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    DONOSO CORTES - I
    « Reply #4 on: September 09, 2014, 01:54:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Adolphus
    An important comment has been made by Fr. Ceriani regard this Eleison Comment:

    The text as written by Bp. Williamson says:

    «One of the most important Catholic dogmas is that of original sin, whereby all human beings (except Our Lord and his Mother) have a nature seriously wounded from birth».

    This is wrong, since it is from conception itself that we humans have a nature wounded, and not from birth.


    I hope it is a misquote, or a goof at the proof reading before publication.


    Offline cassini

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    « Reply #5 on: September 09, 2014, 02:49:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: Adolphus
    An important comment has been made by Fr. Ceriani regard this Eleison Comment:

    The text as written by Bp. Williamson says:

    «One of the most important Catholic dogmas is that of original sin, whereby all human beings (except Our Lord and his Mother) have a nature seriously wounded from birth».

    This is wrong, since it is from conception itself that we humans have a nature wounded, and not from birth.


    Yes, from conception, but it is also there from birth. I do not think Bp Williamson meant only from birth, but there at birth. Slip of the mind I think, not a new dogma, give him a break.

    In his book IN THE BEGINNING 1980 Cardinal Ratzinger 'EVOLUTIONISED' Original Sin and it came out as nothing like its traditional teaching.

    Offline Adolphus

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    « Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 03:00:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: cassini
    Quote from: Adolphus
    An important comment has been made by Fr. Ceriani regard this Eleison Comment:

    The text as written by Bp. Williamson says:

    «One of the most important Catholic dogmas is that of original sin, whereby all human beings (except Our Lord and his Mother) have a nature seriously wounded from birth».

    This is wrong, since it is from conception itself that we humans have a nature wounded, and not from birth.

    Yes, from conception, but it is also there from birth. I do not think Bp Williamson meant only from birth, but there at birth. Slip of the mind I think, not a new dogma, give him a break.

    In his book IN THE BEGINNING 1980 Cardinal Ratzinger 'EVOLUTIONISED' Original Sin and it came out as nothing like its traditional teaching.


    What do you mean when you say "but it is also there from birth"?  St. John the Baptist was born without the original sin.

    Offline clare

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    DONOSO CORTES - I
    « Reply #7 on: September 11, 2014, 10:14:46 AM »
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  • Quote from: Adolphus
    What do you mean when you say "but it is also there from birth"?  St. John the Baptist was born without the original sin.

    He was unique.


    Offline Adolphus

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    « Reply #8 on: September 11, 2014, 11:46:01 AM »
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  • Quote from: clare
    Quote from: Adolphus
    What do you mean when you say "but it is also there from birth"?  St. John the Baptist was born without the original sin.

    He was unique.

    Agree!

    Anyway, the expression as it is read in the Eleison Comment is wrong…

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #9 on: September 11, 2014, 11:44:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: Adolphus
    Quote from: clare
    Quote from: Adolphus

    What do you mean when you say "but it is also there from birth"?  St. John the Baptist was born without the original sin.


    He was unique.


    Agree!

    Anyway, the expression as it is read in the Eleison Comment is wrong…


    It would be proper for +W to admit the error and to clear the air.

    We ought not be so harsh on him, though, for he is trying here to defend the dogma of original sin against utter denial that has run rampant today.  We know that original sin is present at the moment of conception, except in Our Lord and Our Lady, as he said.  

    Regarding St. John the Baptist, Our Lord gave us His word on his greatness by saying no man born of woman is greater than he.  Recall that Our Lord's birth was not as anyone else's as his mother remains a virgin and there was no medical procedure necessary.  The Church celebrates the birthday (nativity) of three persons, because these three were born without original sin (St. John the Baptist was sanctified in his mother's womb at the Visitation, so his original sin was removed before his birth, thus he was born without sin).  

    Furthermore, no unborn child can commit sin before his birth, so the nativity is a key point in regards to original sin.  A child stillborn can be baptized, and we defer to the infinite providence of God.  A mother who has a miscarriage can baptize the remains in faith, and the rest is up to God.

    I knew an anesthesiologist who baptized many stillborn babies, even without their parents' permission.  Some of them were not Christian, such as Jєωs or Hindus or Buddhists.  I told him, "You have a veritable army of saints in heaven who owe their salvation to your prudent faithfulness."  He replied that he knows this.  St. Therese of Lisieux had 4 siblings who died in infancy, and she referred to them as her little angels, and she believed that she received graces from their intercession when she prayed to them, as did the rest of her family.  We don't say she believed in error, since babies don't become angels -- it's a figure of speech.  

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