Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Dominicans of Avrill  (Read 3154 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Centroamerica

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2655
  • Reputation: +1641/-438
  • Gender: Male
Dominicans of Avrill
« on: April 01, 2015, 10:49:17 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Dominicans of Avrillé:Sweetness and Bitterness in Menzingen
    Dominicans of Avrillé: Sweetness and Bitterness in Menzingen
    By Amicus Romanus                                                     SOURCE
    Translation provided by Michael Fuller from Spanish


    http://brasildogmadafe.blogspot.com.br/2015/04/dominicans-of-avrillesweetness-and.html




    From the same mouth emits bitterness and gall and sweetness and honey, but not in the same direction.

    -Towards Bishop Williamson and Bishop Faure, it's all bitterness.

    -Towards Conciliar Rome, it's all sweetness.



    The communiqué from Menzingen regarding the March 19th consecration offers a truly impressive contrast.

    I. Only bitterness!

    Joseph's brothers could not speak peaceably to him, as much as they looked on (Genesis 37:4). From Menzingen, don't expect one single kindhearted word of recognition or of charity towards Bishop Williamson or Bishop Faure, after their decades of good, loyal service.  Menzingen only thinks of denouncing them: "The SSPX denounces the episcopal consecration of Rev. Fr. Faure".  At least this is clear, but why this denunciation?  What is reprehensible in this consecration?  This is something much more sinister.  A very strong animosity is felt, but many rational arguments are not discerned.  And even worse: it tastes of bitterness!  Menzingen seems unable to speak objectively simply respecting the facts about the two bishops. At all costs, they must deform and dirty the intentions, dirty the reputation of people.  The tendency seems unstoppable.

    1. "Against any relations"

    First example: the relations with Rome.  Everyone knows that Bishop Williamson and Bishop Fellay oppose each other on this point.  The former estimates (whether he is right or not is not the question here) that the latter lacks the necessary strength to decidedly oppose -face to face- the errors of the Roman authorities; instead of impressing his interlocutors -like Archbishop Lefebvre- by frontally reminding them of the inopportune truths, he lets himself be impressed by them.

    More fundamentally, the opposition is about the finality of the negotiations. For Bishops Williamson, there is only one objective: that the Roman authorities abjure from all the modernist and liberal errors and everything that has resulted.  Meanwhile, Bishop Fellay dreams of a canonical recognition, even before the conversion of the authorities.

    All of this is notoriously public.  The question is not to know if it is necessary or not to discuss with Rome, but how and with what finality to go about with these discussions.

    Menzingen could easily say it in one word: Bishop Fellay and Bishop Williamson differ regarding the discussions with Rome.  This is clear, simple, true, and perfectly objective.

    But no! Menzingen could not be resolved to call it how it is.  The necessity to dirty the reputation was too violent.  Distrusting the evidence, Menzingen declared that Bishop Williamson and Bishop Faure are "against any relation with the Roman authorities".  But they have explicitly declared the contrary (still on the eve of the consecration), but that doesn't count.  Apparently, Menzingen knows more about what they themselves think!

    2. "It is not at all comparable"

    Second example: the comparison between the 1988 consecration and the 2015 consecration.  The differences and similarities can be argued a long time. At least it is unarguable that the nature of the act is the same.  There was a paternal link (through Bishop Williamson, Archbishop Lefebvre is now the "grandfather in episcopacy" of Bishop Faure).  Archbishop Lefebvre himself had contemplated consecrating Jean-Michel Faure.  The state of necessity in the Church has not diminished since 1988.  Finally, Bishop Williamson has the same discourse that Archbishop Lefebvre had at the time.

    Different circuмstances of times, places, or manner can always be disputed, but Menzingen doesn't even attempt it.  Their communiqué simply declares that "the episcopal consecration of Fr. Faure is not at all comparable with the consecrations of 1988".  You read that right: not at all.

    Among all the ways of criticizing the 2015 consecration, Menzingen chose the most expedient, the most extreme, the most insupportable, to reject as a whole.  "It is not at all comparable."  It is integral negationism.

    3. "All the declarations..."

    We approach the apex.  And here finally "all the declarations of Bishop Williamson and Rev. Fr. Faure prove abundantly that they no longer recognize the Roman authorities".  

    This is the accusation that kills: sedevacantism!  An outright accusation alleged without even a minimal, faint shadow of a doubt.  We are very far from interrogative-negative formulas or from the dimmed allusions of Bishop Fellay when he tries to emit reserves about Pope Francis (we don't understand...", "We have the impression...").  Here Menzingen understands very well and is certain.  This confession was not made once, by surprise or by halfhearted words, it's in "all the declarations" of the wicked bishops.  Yes all of the declarations!  Faith in Menzingen!

    Moreover, Menzingen realizes that there might be, among the readers of the communiqué, some readers of Bishop Williamson that can be a little surprised because they have read exactly the opposite.  Not only does Bishop Williamson recognize the Roman authorities, but he has frequently argued against sedevacantism (and in a more convincing way than Bishop Fellay, who is content with presenting as a scarecrow).

    Those who have read Fr. Faure (notably the interview before his consecration) can experience the same surprise, and even think that good Bishop Fellay lies, or at least that he says just about anything.

    Happily, the bile reserve has not run dry.  To prevent against any embarrassing question, it is sufficient to accuse them, Bishop Williamson and Bishop Faure, of lying.  All of their declarations affirm that they recognize the Roman authorities?  It doesn't matter!  It is simply that they don't believe what they say.  They are only words in the air, empty, rhetorical spins.  And Menzingen, which really knows better than what they themselves are thinking, finishes:  "All the declarations [...] prove abundantly that they no longer recognize the Roman authorities, except in a purely rhetorical manner".

    This is what we call, in good French, a judgment of intention.  It is the preferred tactic of subversives (communists, masons, etc.), because it is very difficult to counteract.  You all can respond however you like, it matters little, because we have put forward the principle that you all do not really believe what you say.  State ten times that you recognize the Roman authorities, undertake the work of refuting the sedevacantist arguments: we content ourselves with responding that your insistence on this point is suspicious and confirms, once more, that you all don't absolutely recognize the mentioned authorities "except in a purely rhetorical manner".

    A simple question for Bishop Fellay: conscientiously and before God, is it truly correct that this polemical procedure is in complete conformity with the Gospel?

    II. Only sweetness!

    But the most impressive is the contrast.

    After all, Menzingen could be suffering from a toothache or had a bad night when they wrote up their communiqué.  This could explain the bitterness.

    But the gall?

    Well, reread attentively: is it not evident that they have left out from this communiqué any expression that could constitute a minimal possibility of risk of displeasing conciliar Rome?

    1.  “State of necessity” without an identifiable cause.

    “The Society of St. Pius X still maintains that the present state of necessity renders legitimate its action throughout the world”.—But where does this state of necessity come from?  It seems to float in the air without a cause and without an explanation other than the evil of the times.  Menzingen mentions it as if it verifies the rain or the sun and does not remember even once that the harm comes firstly from the pope and the Holy See that propagate, since 50 years ago, mortal errors to souls.

    -Shush! Shush! Warning! You are going to offend Rome!

    2.  The limited bishops and the administering of the sacraments.

    Archbishop Lefebvre consecrated bishops so that they could ordain priests, this is certain, but also to defend the faith and combat the current errors, moreover, the modernist and liberal errors spread by the conciliar hierarchy.

    Apparently, this has ended.  For Menzingen, the bishops must no longer combat the errors.  The communiqué explains that Archbishop Lefebvre consecrated bishops in 1988 and “his sole goal was to make available to the faithful the sacraments which priests ordained by the bishops would offer”.

    “the sole goal”: the state of necessity in the Church is limited to the sacraments- and what about the doctrinal crisis?  What about the errors of conciliar Rome, the neo-modernist and neo-protestant tendency so frequently denounced by Archbishop Lefebvre?

    -Shush! Shush! Warning! You are going to offend Rome!

    3.  Errors that who knows from whence they come.

    Nevertheless, there are errors. Menzingen indicates that it is necessary to oppose them.  In its martial fit of rage, the communiqué goes all the way to valiantly declaring that the Society must oppose the errors “from wherever they may come”!  And just from where do they come?  They won’t tell us anything else!

    -Shush! Shush! Warning! You are going to offend Rome!

    Bishop Fellay, accused by Bishop Williamson of gleaming in front of conciliar Rome, should have taken advantage of the occasion to prove otherwise.  Some words against the neo-modernist and neo-protestant Rome would have been particularly adequate.  The very situation even seemed to require it. But no!  Not a single word.  Bishop Williamson and Bishop Faure are scorned, but modernist Rome is in no way denounced.

    And regarding this, one of the two applies:

    ·         Either (a suspected plotter) whoever the newly responsible for the communiqué from Menzingen was is a secret ally of Bishop Williamson: he treacherously works to discredit Bishop Fellay publishing, in his name, communiqués crafted liberally (sickly-sweet for the enemies of the faith, bitter for its defenders).

    ·         Or the communiqué really expresses the way Bishop Fellay thinks, and so the joy that Archbishop Pozzo promptly directed to the SSPX for this beautiful communiqué is understood.

    P.S. Secondary consideration

    It is curious that Menzingen always expresses itself as if the state of necessity that afflicts the Church was its own territory or its private property.  Only the SSPX can seemingly invoke it in order to justify its apostolate.

    Lastly, Menzingen seems to attribute to itself a supreme, extraordinary jurisdiction almost like the pope exercises the supreme ordinary jurisdiction.  This perspective would explain the reason that Menzingen believes it is authorized to “denounce” the consecration of Bishop Faure: an attempt against its Monopoly.

    If this is not the case, well then what is it?  A personal prelature already agreed upon by Rome-secretly- to Bishop Fellay?

    _________________________________


    Regarding the differences, Menzingen emphatically underlines “some hundreds of journalists from around the world” that were present in 1988.  Visibly, for Bishop Fellay this is very important.  We need to ask him about the journalists -in his opinion- were they present for the first episcopal consecration on the night of Holy Thursday.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1424
    • Reputation: +1360/-142
    • Gender: Female
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #1 on: April 02, 2015, 08:46:59 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    It is curious that Menzingen always expresses itself as if the state of necessity that afflicts the Church was its own territory or its private property.  Only the SSPX can seemingly invoke it in order to justify its apostolate.

    Lastly, Menzingen seems to attribute to itself a supreme, extraordinary jurisdiction almost like the pope exercises the supreme ordinary jurisdiction.  This perspective would explain the reason that Menzingen believes it is authorized to “denounce” the consecration of Bishop Faure: an attempt against its Monopoly.

    If this is not the case, well then what is it? A personal prelature already agreed upon by Rome-secretly- to Bishop Fellay?


    IMO, the secret agreement begun around 2008 when they begun befriending independent priests in attempts to take over the chapels by secret plots. The chapels that they could not take over were threatened with “spiritual desolation”, vowing to insure “that no priest friend of the SSPX would help them…”, "that they would see they get no H. Oils"...and that in the name of SSPX superiors.

    They also begun around that time to aggressively interfere with the religious orders with +Fellay  setting himself above the religious superiors even in minor decisions and later refusing to ordain their priests unless they blindly follow him, denying H. Oils even to religious orders, encouraging divisions and starting new “SSPX approved” religious orders…expelling +Williamson and now condemning the consecration of +Faure and the list goes on and on...

    I am convinced that the SSPX leadership, (Judas Goats)  had signed (secretly) the 1989 “Profession of Faith” and “Oath of Fidelity” before the statement by Fr. Pfluger:  ‘The train to Rome is leaving and those who will get off, will get off”. Nothing short of signing would allow them to “dwell in the tabernacle of sinners” (lunches with the Romans at St. Marta’s dining room…) but a "secret agreement" I'm certain it was done long ago. As A. Pozzo said in a recent interview, "the P.F" is non negotiable and we all know they are set on becoming "reintegrated" although rightly ashamed to admit it.

    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline Domitilla

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 479
    • Reputation: +1009/-29
    • Gender: Male
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #2 on: April 02, 2015, 10:07:29 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have been completely convinced since 2011 that the deal has already been signed by +Fellay; and since that time, he has been taking measures to "iron out" (and kick out)  his "public relations difficulties" within the SSPX clergy and laity.

    A timely message for the Concilliar authorities and +Fellay and his accomplices:  "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, return unto the Lord thy God."  (Lamentations of Jeremiah 1:2)

    Offline PAT317

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 903
    • Reputation: +776/-114
    • Gender: Male
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #3 on: April 02, 2015, 10:12:39 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    Regarding the differences, Menzingen emphatically underlines “some hundreds of journalists from around the world” that were present in 1988.  Visibly, for Bishop Fellay this is very important.  We need to ask him about the journalists -in his opinion- were they present for the first episcopal consecration on the night of Holy Thursday.


     :scratchchin:

    Offline Domitilla

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 479
    • Reputation: +1009/-29
    • Gender: Male
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #4 on: April 02, 2015, 10:15:03 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • "To Restore All Things In Christ"
    Society of St. Pius X

    "How doth the City sit solitary, that which was full of people!
    How is She a widow!
    She that was great among the nations and princess among the provinces;
    how is She become tributary!"

    "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, return unto the Lord thy God."
                                                  (Lamentations of Jeremiah 1:1-2)

    In better days, this sign, decorated with the Holy Face of Jesus, was hanging on the door of our Chapel Bookstore.  I personally had it made and more than a few SSPX priests requested framed copies of it.  What has happened to them?  Where is their zeal to defend the Holy Faith?  Kyrie Eleison!



    Offline magdalena

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2553
    • Reputation: +2032/-42
    • Gender: Female
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #5 on: April 02, 2015, 10:36:33 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Domitilla
    "To Restore All Things In Christ"
    Society of St. Pius X

    "How doth the City sit solitary, that which was full of people!
    How is She a widow!
    She that was great among the nations and princess among the provinces;
    how is She become tributary!"

    "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, return unto the Lord thy God."
                                                  (Lamentations of Jeremiah 1:1-2)

    In better days, this sign, decorated with the Holy Face of Jesus, was hanging on the door of our Chapel Bookstore.  I personally had it made and more than a few SSPX priests requested framed copies of it.  What has happened to them?  Where is their zeal to defend the Holy Faith?  Kyrie Eleison!



    So very sad and true.   :pray:
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline Centroamerica

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2655
    • Reputation: +1641/-438
    • Gender: Male
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #6 on: April 02, 2015, 11:16:30 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: PAT317
    Quote
    Regarding the differences, Menzingen emphatically underlines “some hundreds of journalists from around the world” that were present in 1988.  Visibly, for Bishop Fellay this is very important.  We need to ask him about the journalists -in his opinion- were they present for the first episcopal consecration on the night of Holy Thursday.


     :scratchchin:



    Maybe this is confusing.  It means to say, were the journalists present for the consecration of the apostles by Our Lord? If not than this is a striking contrast with the consecration in Ecône!!!
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline ark of covenant

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 41
    • Reputation: +58/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #7 on: April 02, 2015, 11:36:34 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • My heart saddens when like Jerusalem Our Lord wept over the city soon to be destroyed in a.d. 79 "because thou hast not known the hour of they visitation".
    I would be next year attending Society Masses for 30 years guess I won't reach that. Only this week I resigned my post as sacristan, which I held for almost 20 years, due to irreconcilable differences between Fr. Willies and I. I weep for the society.


    Offline stgobnait

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1346
    • Reputation: +941/-65
    • Gender: Female
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #8 on: April 02, 2015, 11:47:14 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • That's really sad, Ark of the Covenant.

    Offline Domitilla

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 479
    • Reputation: +1009/-29
    • Gender: Male
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #9 on: April 02, 2015, 01:11:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • How sad it is that Ark of the Covenant resigned a post held for 20 years.  With you, I also weep for the SSPX.  Would that our Chapel had a sacristan with 20 years of experience.  At this time, our Chapel's sacristan (with 3 years of experience and new to Tradition) has an 11 year old son who performs the duties of his father, handling the sacred vessels with bare hands; leaning on the altar from the waste up in order to change the curtains of the tabernacle and to adjust the coverings to the altar relics, thereby getting the altar cloth "kittywampus".  He then spends a few minutes smoothing out the wrinkles his actions have caused.  It is not unusual for one candle to be unlit during low Mass; for failure to place the cloth over the altar rail (which formerly was done by altar boys during the Holy Mass), and for the image of Our Lady of Perpetual Help to be absent during devotions to her.  The young priest continues to permit this display of serious ineptitude, despite complaints from the congregation.                

    Yes, we "old-timers" are weeping copious tears in mourning for what the SSPX once was .
    Yesterday, I walked out after Holy Mass not sure if I would ever return.  My heart is breaking ... but, where will I go?  I haven't the courage to become a "home-aloner".

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1424
    • Reputation: +1360/-142
    • Gender: Female
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #10 on: April 02, 2015, 01:16:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: ark of covenant
    My heart saddens when like Jerusalem Our Lord wept over the city soon to be destroyed in a.d. 79 "because thou hast not known the hour of they visitation".
    I would be next year attending Society Masses for 30 years guess I won't reach that. Only this week I resigned my post as sacristan, which I held for almost 20 years, due to irreconcilable differences between Fr. Willies and I. I weep for the society.


    In the many years we attended SSPX chapels we have seen this even with long time faithful coordinators. The SSPX wants yes men not serious and pious Catholics. God will take care of you, no doubt. Have confidence that "all things will work together unto good"
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline JPaul

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3832
    • Reputation: +3722/-293
    • Gender: Male
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #11 on: April 02, 2015, 01:35:02 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Receive the valid sacraments for as long as possible but have no further entanglements with this group.
    What they were, they no longer are. However heartbreaking it is, that is the reality.
    This is but one more oasis in the conciliar desert, which we have lost. We must continue on in whatever way God permits.
    We are children of light of Christ and the Catholic Church, which, at present is as afflicted as we.
    When the supernatural left the SSPX, its value and ability to sustain and defend the Traditional faith, went with it.
    It is almost impossible to grasp, but, there is little that the Devil cannot accomplish in the material world.

    Offline GGMoreno

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 53
    • Reputation: +59/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #12 on: April 02, 2015, 02:09:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Could we form some sort of coalition of the faithful united with bsps. Williamson and Faure? I believe once people see we are not in small numbers, these matters would be treated more seriously. I think that Williamson and Tissier would be encouraged by knowing they have support from the faithful.

    Offline Centroamerica

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2655
    • Reputation: +1641/-438
    • Gender: Male
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #13 on: April 02, 2015, 02:16:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: GGMoreno
    Could we form some sort of coalition of the faithful united with bsps. Williamson and Faure? I believe once people see we are not in small numbers, these matters would be treated more seriously. I think that Williamson and Tissier would be encouraged by knowing they have support from the faithful.


    That's a great idea. A list of laity who support the bishops united under a league or society?
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline GGMoreno

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 53
    • Reputation: +59/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Dominicans of Avrill
    « Reply #14 on: April 02, 2015, 05:25:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Sure. We could properly call ourselves the Lefebvrian Society of Roman Catholic Faithful or colloquially, the Lefebvrians :) Our guiding docuмents are words of the Archbishop himself. We follow his example, period.

    Plus getting our names on a list would serve as a way to centralize mass locations and other apostolates (seminaries, religious houses, schools or whatever). The priests and bishops will better know how to serve us this way.