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Author Topic: Does the Neo-SSPX teach the Truths Necessary for Salvation? (Athanasian Creed).  (Read 671 times)

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Offline coeurvoil

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Forgot aswell Fr Brucciani. He was a mediocre District Superior however his Brother is a lovely Priest and a great Head master who runs the St Michaels School
There is growing discussion in parts of North America about beginning Rosary gatherings outside Neo-SSPX chapels during Mass. Not as a protest, but as an act of reparation and a plea for Heaven’s intervention.

If this does begin, it would be a grace to see those in the Resistance who still attend these Masses unite in prayer. Not with hostility, but with the desire that Bishop Fellay would publicly acknowledge and reject the 2012 agreement with Rome.

This is not about division. It is about fidelity. Charity without compromise. Truth without silence.



Offline StonewallCatho

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There is growing discussion in parts of North America about beginning Rosary gatherings outside Neo-SSPX chapels during Mass. Not as a protest, but as an act of reparation and a plea for Heaven’s intervention.

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A good intention, but a bad idea. It would undoubtedly be known by the priest and faithful at Mass, and therefore create a huge distraction to them, thus interfering with the proper worship of God. This is clearly a case where the end cannot justify the means. There is even an article of the Canadian Criminal Code that prohibits disruption and trouble during an act of worship, punishable by up to 2 years in jail.

Maybe people should send lots of paper mail to Menzingen to ask for a return to the 2006 General Chapter policy "No practical agreement without a doctrinal agreement". Maybe the accuмulation of letters would open their eyes to our dissatisfaction... Although I think they have already reached the point of no return. They have already accepted many "concessions" from Rome (Penance, Marriage, Ordinations, Internal Tribunals, Huonder the Wonder)...


Offline Ladislaus

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So, here's the problem, people.  If you believe the V2 papal claimants are actually popes, there's nothing wrong with trying to find ways to be subject to the Vicar of Christ.  In fact, one is absolutely required to make every possible effort.

It's only if you have the intellectual honesty to admit that, yeah, there's definitely some doubt about whether they're popes, that you can justify a refusal of submission.

Pre-V2 Canonists state that one is not schismatic for refusal of submission due to well-founded doubts about a putative Pope's legitimacy ... the logical corollary being that you are if you don't entertain such doubts.

Now, you do realize also that +Lefebvre, +Tissier, and +Williamson have all stated at various times that it's possible these guys aren't popes ... and such a position suffices to absolve from schism.  You know this means they are not actually sedeplenists, right?  See, most theologians hold that papal legitimacy is dogmatic fact, meaning that it's just as certain as that God is Three Divine Persons.  It's as much a heresy to doubt a dogmatic fact as it is to deny it.  If you say that it's possible there are 4 Persons in God, even if you don't commit to it but just say it's possible, that means you do not accept the dogma of the Holy Trinity with the certainty of faith ... and you're a heretic.  Same with these papal claimants.

Now, you could say that you give them the benefit of the doubt just in case and obey when you can ...but again that's only if you admit some doubt.

There's a theological maxim that a doubtful pope is no pope, for this very reason.

So if you believe, as +Fellay does, that it's absolutely certain with the certainty of faith that they're popes, not only is he doing nothing wrong by trying to re-enter a state of submission to the Vicar of Christ, but he actually needs to try much harder, i.e. actually do it.

Just be honest that you're not as certain that Prevost is pope as that Christ is God, i.e. that there's some reasonable doubt about his legitimacy ... and save your faith from being shipwrecked with heresy.  That's all you need to do ... admit some doubt.  Or else consider Father Chazal's position ... rather than slouching toward Old Catholicism as many of you have done.

Offline Seraphina

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.. admit some doubt.  Or else consider Father Chazal's position ... rather than slouching toward Old Catholicism as many of you have done.
Kindly explain in simple terms, Father Chazal’s position, Sedeprivationist, and Old Catholicism.

Offline Stubborn

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Thank you to both of you, Stubborn and Seraphina. Would you mind telling us the locations? Last news from Canada is from the big Toronto parish: There was no mention of the Athanasian Creed.
St. Joseph's, Ray Township, MI
"But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


Offline coeurvoil

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A good intention, but a bad idea. It would undoubtedly be known by the priest and faithful at Mass, and therefore create a huge distraction to them, thus interfering with the proper worship of God. This is clearly a case where the end cannot justify the means. There is even an article of the Canadian Criminal Code that prohibits disruption and trouble during an act of worship, punishable by up to 2 years in jail.

Maybe people should send lots of paper mail to Menzingen to ask for a return to the 2006 General Chapter policy "No practical agreement without a doctrinal agreement". Maybe the accuмulation of letters would open their eyes to our dissatisfaction... Although I think they have already reached the point of no return. They have already accepted many "concessions" from Rome (Penance, Marriage, Ordinations, Internal Tribunals, Huonder the Wonder)...
Thank you for your concern, but respectfully, this line of thinking is precisely why things have gotten this far.

The Rosary is not a disruption—it is a weapon. It is the public prayer of the Church. In times of crisis, when betrayal happens inside the sanctuary, the most Catholic thing one can do is take up the Rosary outside it.

What causes the greater scandal before God: a few faithful praying the Rosary in reparation, or priests offering the Holy Sacrifice under the shadow of a practical agreement with apostates in Rome?

As for civil penalties: since when did fear of human laws prevent Catholics from doing what is right? The Vendée did not wait for legal clearance. The Cristeros did not pause because the penal code warned them. And if we are afraid to be seen praying the Rosary, what are we really fighting for?

As for your suggestion to write Menzingen—Menzingen already knows. They were warned in 2012 and they crossed the line anyway. They have traded the clear path of Archbishop Lefebvre for recognition from Modernist Rome. And the silence from within only emboldens them.

Our Rosaries are not protests. They are acts of love for Our Lord, of sorrow for betrayal, and of hope for restoration. The faithful outside praying may be the last reminder to those inside that Heaven still waits—for repentance, not compromise.

Offline ElwinRansom1970

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The Rosary is not a disruption—it is a weapon. It is the public prayer of the Church.
No, the Rosary is NOT the public prayer of the Church.

The public prayer of the Church consists of the Eucharistic liturgy (variously called  the Mass, the Divine Liturgy, the Holy Qurbana, depending upon liturgical Rite), the Divine Office, the sacramental rites, and official blessings and processions.

The Rosary is a devotional (private) prayer proper to the Latin Church sui juris, although Easterners may choose to pray it as well as we Latins may choose to pray Eastern devotions. The Rosary however is not the public prayer of the Church, although it can be incorporated into public prayer, such as, recitation of the Rosary during a procession or exposition of the Blessed Sacrament.
"I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
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Online WorldsAway

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No, the Rosary is NOT the public prayer of the Church.

The public prayer of the Church consists of the Eucharistic liturgy (variously called  the Mass, the Divine Liturgy, the Holy Qurbana, depending upon liturgical Rite), the Divine Office, the sacramental rites, and official blessings and processions.

The Rosary is a devotional (private) prayer proper to the Latin Church sui juris, although Easterners may choose to pray it as well as we Latins may choose to pray Eastern devotions. The Rosary however is not the public prayer of the Church, although it can be incorporated into public prayer, such as, recitation of the Rosary during a procession or exposition of the Blessed Sacrament.
Great post, Elwin. However, I am wondering why praying the Rosary is not the "norm" in the Eastern Churches as well..with the great promises given by Our Lady to those who daily and faithfully pray the Rosary? Do they have a similar, basically "most important" private prayer? Do they also have similar devotions to, say, the First Saturdays and Fridays?
John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.