It no longer has worldly elements when received.It still has the worldly accidents of bread and the gluten is still there.
A priest can still give a crumb.Yes that is the way it is done. When the priest gets to the person, he breaks off a small chip and gives it to the person.
In my opinion, it is an unnecessary spectacle for the parents or the person. I think it has to do more with pride than avoiding illness. If the person was so allergic to wheat that they can't even eat a small chip, then they would be sick all the time, because there are more accidental pieces of wheat in all the food that they eat every day.I think you're being too judgemental here and overly dramatic. If the priest decides that such a thing is necessary or prudent, then accept his decision. If you were involved with the discussions, then you are allowed an opinion, but i'm assuming you weren't. Exceptions like this are allowed by the Church, who is Our Mother and not a liturgical dictator. It's not a "spectacle" for a priest to make an allowance in an extraordinary case.
I think you're being too judgemental here and overly dramatic. If the priest decides that such a thing is necessary or prudent, then accept his decision. If you were involved with the discussions, then you are allowed an opinion, but i'm assuming you weren't. Exceptions like this are allowed by the Church, who is Our Mother and not a liturgical dictator. It's not a "spectacle" for a priest to make an allowance in an extraordinary case.I'd be more interested in what other celiac sufferers have to say, as I know two, and all their lives they've just taken the small fragment from the priests. That is the reason for my opinion. I really do not give a hoot about a priest going through that extra effort. The question is, is it necessary? Are there any celiac sufferers who want to enlighten us?
There certainly are many references to grains in the Bible, and with good reason. The Bible was compiled during a predominately agricultural time, and this would have been a reference that was easily understood by the people during that time period.
Though the Bible references grains, the grains consumed a couple thousand years ago bear little to no resemblance to the grains we consume (or don’t consume!) today.
In Jesus’ time, there were only three major types of wheat in existence: Einkorn, Emmer, and later Triticuм aestivum along with simple, non-hybrid varieties of other grains like barley, millet, and rye. These grains had (and still have) a higher protein content and lower anti-nutrient content than grains of today.
This is a stark contrast to the 25,000+ species that exist today, most of which we created in a lab to be disease resistant or produce high yields. In order to achieve these traits like disease and pest resistance, scientists had to enhance the part of the grains that naturally resists disease and predators: mainly, the glutens, lectins, and phytates- the most harmful parts of the grains to humans.
In addition, these hybridized strains are often allergen producing and usually sprayed with pesticides and chemicals. It is interesting to note that some people who are allergic to modern strains of wheat show little to no reaction to (properly prepared) Einkorn wheat in small amounts.
So, the grains of Jesus’ time weren’t genetically similar to the grains of today, and had lower concentrations of the harmful com
ponents. In addition, they were prepared much differently:
In the Eastern Rite, there's no problem, since people receive under both species.I heard it is a type of wheat that does not bother the celiac.
But I'd really love to know what gluten free host the SSPX would be using. For validity, wheat must be used, and I know of no gluten-free varieties of wheat.
My wife and one of my daughters have serious gluten intolerance, and yet they had no issues at all with Emmer (when we obtained some).Do they take the small chip at Latin Rite mass?
However, in the example the OP gave, the priests is giving a special communion to the person. I have seen it done, the priests after he is done with everyone, goes up to the tabernacle and brings back the special host just for that one person. It is quite a spectacle on Sundays.Last Trad,
I'd be more interested in what other celiac sufferers have to say, as I know two, and all their lives they've just taken the small fragment from the priests. That is the reason for my opinion. I really do not give a hoot about a priest going through that extra effort. The question is, is it necessary? Are there any celiac sufferers who want to enlighten us?I'd love to know the answer to this question as well, also, it seems only women have this concern.
Are there any celiac sufferers who want to enlighten us?https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/gluten-and-communion-whats-a-celiac-to-do-72220
Do they take the small chip at Latin Rite mass?
I know of at least one SSPX chapel where there is a gluten free host given out at communion time to a person or persons. How can they do this if they believe a miracle happens.Why so melodramatic? How do you KNOW that they use a gluten free Host?
The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation (CCC, 1376).[size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
At The Consecration The Host and Wine only have the APPEARANCE OF BREAD AND WINE . The elements have been changed INTO THE BODY ,BLOOD, SOUL AND DIVINITY OF OUR LORD. THINK OF THE MIRACLE OF LANCIANO, That happens everyday at Mass. Has anyone tested to see after The CONSECRATION if there was gluten present ? I doubt they have.It's correct that after transubstantiation, the substance is the body and blood of Christ, under the appearances (called "accidents") of bread and wine. However all physically measurable qualities are accidents, so according to Catholic theology, no physical test would show a difference before and after the consecration. Catholics would not expect the measured gluten content to change. So celiacs who would react to an unconsecrated wheat wafer would be expected to have the same reactions to a consecrated host, unless another miracle prevented it.
The Miracle happened at The Consecration, no other Miracle is needed !You understand that after the Consecration, the appearances of bread remain. Do you realize that means they act like bread to all physical measurements and activities, including chemistry?
Have you checked out the physical components after The Consecration ?I haven't checked out anything, but it seems to look and taste and weigh the same as before the Consecration.
.A priest can still give a crumb.
..At The Consecration the Host and Wine only have the APPEARANCE OF BREAD AND WINE. The elements have been changed INTO THE BODY, BLOOD, SOUL AND DIVINITY OF OUR LORD. THINK OF THE MIRACLE OF LANCIANO, That happens everyday at Mass. Has anyone tested to see after The CONSECRATION if there was gluten present? I doubt they have.
Yes that is the way it is done. When the priest gets to the person, he breaks off a small chip and gives it to the person..
However, in the example the OP gave, the priests is giving a special communion to the person. I have seen it done, the priests after he is done with everyone, goes up to the tabernacle and brings back the special host just for that one person. It is quite a spectacle on Sundays.
In my opinion, it is an unnecessary spectacle for the parents or the person. I think it has to do more with pride than avoiding illness. If the person was so allergic to wheat that they can't even eat a small chip, then they would be sick all the time, because there are more accidental pieces of wheat in all the food that they eat every day.
While it IS true that the host and wine have the appearance of bread and wine, that is not ALL they have: it's not a matter of "only".
In this case the word "appearance" is a one-word abbreviation for the full topic of what they have.
They have everything that is LIKE appearance too, such as smell, heft, color, size, taste, feel -- that is, everything sensible to man.
But it's more than that, because accidents include everything that instruments designed by man can be used to detect.
Things such as weight, atomic structure, radioactivity, x-ray pictures, non-visible light spectrum analysis, density, hardness, brittleness, and so on.
Any possible chemical reaction is also included in the accidents of a material object.
So it is more correct to say the host and wine continue to have the same ACCIDENTS of bread and wine (instead of "appearance").
But the word "accidents" is not normally used in our culture in this sense so uninformed people (like cosmas here) would be ignorant of that.
I just want to say "THANKYOU " FOR ENLIGHTENING ME on this subject. There's much food for thought. i'm going to do some more research on this situation myself. Thanks again for the input !.
When Pope Urban IV (1261-1264) first established the Feast of Corpus Christi, he requested St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274) to compose hymns for it. This is one of the five beautiful hymns Aquinas composed in honor of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. In addition to Lauda Sion, St. Thomas wrote Adoro Te Devote, Pange Lingua, Sacris Sollemnis and Verbum Supernum. Lauda Sion is the Sequence before the Gospel on Corpus Christi. The last two verses comprise the well known Bone pastor, panis vere. |
LAUDA Sion Salvatorem, lauda ducem et pastorem, in hymnis et canticis. Quantum potes, tantum aude: quia maior omni laude, nec laudare sufficis. | ZION, to Thy Savior sing, to Thy Shepherd and Thy King! Let the air with praises ring! All thou canst, proclaim with mirth, far higher is His worth than the glory words may wing. |
Laudis thema specialis, panis vivus et vitalis hodie proponitur. Quem in sacrae mensa cenae, turbae fratrum duodenae datum non ambigitur. | Lo! before our eyes and living is the Sacred Bread life-giving, theme of canticle and hymn. We profess this Bread from heaven to the Twelve by Christ was given, for our faith rest firm in Him. |
Sit laus plena, sit sonora, sit iucunda, sit decora mentis iubilatio. Dies enim solemnis agitur, in qua mensae prima recolitur huius institutio. | Let us form a joyful chorus, may our lauds ascend sonorous, bursting from each loving breast. For we solemnly record how the Table of the Lord with the Lamb's own gift was blest. |
In hac mensa novi Regis, novum Pascha novae legis, phase vetus terminat. Vetustatem novitas, umbram fugat veritas, noctem lux eliminat. | On this altar of the King this new Paschal Offering brings an end to ancient rite. Shadows flee that truth may stay, oldness to the new gives way, and the night's darkness to the light. |
Quod in coena Christus gessit, faciendum hoc expressit in sui memoriam. Docti sacris institutis, panem, vinum in salutis consecramus hostiam. | What at Supper Christ completed He ordained to be repeated, in His memory Divine. Wherefore now, with adoration, we, the Host of our salvation, consecrate from bread and wine. |
Dogma datur christianis, quod in carnem transit panis, et vinum in sanguinem. Quod non capis, quod non vides, animosa firmat fides, praeter rerum ordinem. | Words a nature's course derange, that in Flesh the bread may change and the wine in Christ's own Blood. Does it pass thy comprehending? Faith, the law of light transcending, leaps to things not understood. |
Sub diversis speciebus, signis tantum, et non rebus, latent res eximiae. Caro cibus, sanguis potus: manet tamen Christus totus sub utraque specie. | Here beneath these signs are hidden priceless things, to sense forbidden; signs, not things, are all we see. Flesh from bread, and Blood from wine, yet is Christ in either sign, all entire confessed to be. |
A sumente non concisus, non confractus, non divisus: integer accipitur. Sumit unus, sumunt mille: quantum isti, tantum ille: nec sumptus consumitur. | And whoe'er of Him partakes, severs not, nor rends, nor breaks: all entire, their Lord receive. Whether one or thousand eat, all receive the selfsame meat, nor do less for others leave. |
Sumunt boni, sumunt mali: sorte tamen inaequali, vitae vel interitus. Mors est malis, vita bonis: vide paris sumptionis quam sit dispar exitus. | Both the wicked and the good eat of this celestial Food: but with ends how opposite! With this most substantial Bread, unto life or death they're fed, in a difference infinite. |
Fracto demum sacramento, ne vacilles, sed memento tantum esse sub fragmento, quantum toto tegitur. Nulla rei fit scissura: signi tantum fit fractura, qua nec status, nec statura signati minuitur. | Nor a single doubt retain, when they break the Host in twain, but that in each part remain what was in the whole before; For the outward sign alone may some change have undergone, while the Signified stays one, and the same forevermore. |
Ecce Panis Angelorum, factus cibus viatorum: vere panis filiorum, non mittendus canibus. In figuris praesignatur, cuм Isaac immolatur, agnus Paschae deputatur, datur manna patribus. | Hail! Bread of the Angels, broken, for us pilgrims food, and token of the promise by Christ spoken, children's meat, to dogs denied! Shown in Isaac's dedication, in the Manna's preparation, in the Paschal immolation, in old types pre-signified. |
Bone pastor, panis vere, Iesu, nostri miserere: Tu nos pasce, nos tuere, Tu nos bona fac videre in terra viventium. Tu qui cuncta scis et vales, qui nos pascis hic mortales: tuos ibi commensales, coheredes et sodales fac sanctorum civium. Amen. Alleluia. | Jesus, Shepherd mild and meek, shield the poor, support the weak; help all who Thy pardon sue, placing all their trust in You: fill them with Your healing grace! Source of all we have or know, feed and lead us here below. grant that with Your Saints above, sitting at the feast of love we may see You face to face. Amen. Alleluia. |
I must also point out:.
Read and pay attention to Neil Obstat's responses to Cosmas in this thread.
Cosmas might have his heart in the right place, but he is mistaken about what "Transubstantiation" means. He is not a theologian, having never attended Seminary or learned Thomistic philosophy (substance and accident), so it's understandable that he is ignorant about this particular theological point. I'm sure he's not alone here.
I hope that he, and anyone else, reads Neil's posts for a clear and thorough explanation of the matter.
A small sample of Neil's excellent, theologically sound exposition of the topic:
This doctor is a quack..I'd like to know what's going on here in other chapels because I know one doctor who says that no amount of gluten is okay..He says to be gluten free and to lose the effects due to gluten intolerance you have to remove ALL the gluten from your life.The pet food in the house must be gluten free, etc., etc., etc.
..This doctor is a quack.
.The one doctor you know.
Which doctor?
That presumes that such catering to special needs is legitimate. I honestly don't know, not having studied this in a professional manner..
NEIL OBSTAT,The key word here is "substance". A substance is what a thing is, accidents are how a thing is perceived by the senses. In Catholic theology, none of the substance of the bread remains after the consecration. While it looks like bread, in no way can a Catholic say that it "is" bread.
I was researching and found this can you explain it to me. Doesn't it mean what it says ? COUNCIL of TRENT, SESSION 13 CANON 4 " If anyone shall say that in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains, together with the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ," Let Him BE ANATHEMA ."
..
NEIL OBSTAT,
I was researching and found this can you explain it to me. Doesn't it mean what it says ? COUNCIL of TRENT, SESSION 13 CANON 4 " If anyone shall say that in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains, together with the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ," Let Him BE ANATHEMA .".STANLEY N ,
My point was getting back to gluten in the bread, the bread and wine are no longer bread and wine after the Consecration. I still don't know why if its been changed the substance ,how can someone have an intolerance to it. Could it possibly be in their mind , Thinking about the Eucharist being made out of Bread ?
..At the SSPX chapel in San Antonio, a couple years ago, one man received the Precious Blood during Mass on Sunday. He had some kind of allergy or intolerance. The priest would administer to him from a small chalice kept in the tabernacle.
It really was quite a spectacle. It's a shame Trad priests don't have more time, to say more Masses for each area per week, so that individuals like this could have their special needs met at a Mass with less attendance.
That presumes that such catering to special needs is legitimate. I honestly don't know, not having studied this in a professional manner.
I do know that we had a parishioner who was gluten intolerant, but she never got to receive Communion. Not from a gluten free or low-gluten host, and not from the chalice. This was under Bp. Zendejas.
.
Well, the general principle is that Catholics (well disposed, of course) have a right to sacraments. Sacraments are often offered as a "special need," e.g. when a priest travels a hundred miles to give last rites. Thing is, that happens outside of mass and no one sees it, so it isn't a spectacle. Another example, again less spectacular, are the elderly who cannot kneel for Holy Communion. I am tempted to think that catering to "special needs" is not just legitimate, but that priests are generally bound to do so. It should be done, when it can be done, with little spectacle. But even if it can only be done with "spectacle" it should be done. Well disposed Catholics, even celiacs, have a right to the sacraments, a right which definitely transcends the sensitivities of those who seek scandal in Holy things.
.
I knew some people who were not celicas, but who (I think) were very close to being celiacs. To my knowledge they did not receive any special Host, nor did they receive a "Chip", but if I recall correctly they had to drink copius amounts of water soon after receiving Holy Communion and even at that it made them quite uncomfortable. I think.
Why was this a spectacle? There is a lady at my church who will suffer vomiting and diarrhea if she consumes wheat. Father has her come up after the rest of us finish Communion and receive from the chalice. Between praying and all the people moving back to their pews it's only rare that I even notice her.