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Author Topic: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza  (Read 11688 times)

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Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2019, 12:46:22 PM »
FYI the site is FOS, I have a letter from a priest friend who was by the Oriental congregation stating that no permission has ever been given to any eastern churches to face the people. The priest in question is a Maronite. The six year experiment went on until 2012 the liturgical book has no such rubrics.

Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2019, 07:21:46 AM »
FYI the site is FOS, I have a letter from a priest friend who was by the Oriental congregation stating that no permission has ever been given to any eastern churches to face the people. The priest in question is a Maronite. The six year experiment went on until 2012 the liturgical book has no such rubrics.

On the one hand, it is interesting that the website which published the OP is today reaffirming the “Novus Ordo of the Maronite Rite” theory, despite your contention that the other post regarding the introduction of modernized rubrics (eg., versus populum , etc all) pertained only to a 5-year ad experimentum, which expired and was not renewed.

[On the other hand -and as a completely irrelevant aside- the Novus Ordo of Pius XII also paved the way for the new Holy Week rites with a 5-year experimental period to acclimate the clergy and faithful, except that according to your post, the Latin modernists succeeded where the Maronite modernists failed.]

For the record, I was in the seminary with Fr. Gardner, and despite not having seen him for many years, consider him a friend (a fact which may make him cringe).  So when I receive an email from him explaining that not only has he not attended a NOM since before he entered the seminary, but additionally, that even the “worst” Maronite Rite Mass he has attended -not participated in- was much more traditional than the most conservative NOM, I am inclined to believe it.

I do not yet have permission to post that email, and am unsure if such permission will be forthcoming or not.


Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2019, 01:28:59 PM »
Incidentally, anyone who attends the Novus Ordo of Pius XII implicitly accepts in principle the versus populum posture (which includes almost every SSPXer, and many Resistance, sedes and indultarians), since this is present in several instances in the fabricated 1956 Palm Sunday rite (both for the blessing of palms, and also for the recitation of the prayer at the conclusion of the procession), or on Holy Saturday when placing the baptismal water in a basin in the middle of the sanctuary or at the communion rail.

Add to this more "active participation" = vocal participation, and you get the Novus Ordo dialogue of bantering back and forth with the priest, at the recitation of the Our Father, and the renewal of baptismal promises.  Wow, am I EVER participating!!!

And then of course, there is the dialogue mass itself, which paved the way for Pius XII's Novus Ordo of Holy Week, which is accepted by the majority of SSPXers (and even some Resistance, mostly in a Europe where the novelties of the liturgical reform preceded Vatican II, and therefore pass for "traditional").

Point being, even if the lapsed modernist experimental revisions in the Maronite Rite had persisted, most SSPX and many Resistance (and sede) commentators would not be in a position to oppose these novelties, without themselves being guilty of hypocrisy or inconsistency:

How can they criticize in the Maronite Rite that which they have accepted in the Latin TLM?

Just one more reason (among so many others!) to reject the liturgical novelties of the dialogue mass and Pius XII's holy week revisions.

If the indulterers can have the fully Catholic rites without incurring suspicion of sedevacantism (think about that!), why can't I (and why shouldn't you)?

Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2019, 02:06:37 PM »

Just one more reason (among so many others!) to reject the liturgical novelties of the dialogue mass and Pius XII's holy week revisions.

If the indulterers can have the fully Catholic rites without incurring suspicion of sedevacantism (think about that!), why can't I (and why shouldn't you)?
This is very true!

Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2019, 07:40:11 PM »
The current Maronite Missal Qurbono: The Book of Offering (1994) states in its foreword:


"In the aftermath of the Second Vatican Ecuмenical Council, which concluded its sessions on the feast of the Immaculate Conception, December 8, 1965, the Church in both the West and the East, set about to implement the decrees of the Council. The Council paid special attention to the liturgy, the liturgy has great influence over the faithful and plays an important role in the regulation of the discipline for worship. In times past, it was said, "The law of worship is the law for belief”  The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, dated December 4, 1963, was first among the conciliar docuмents. It issued specific rules for liturgical reform, such as; "The rite of the Quddas/Qurbono is to be revised in such a way that the intrinsic nature and purpose of its several parts, as well as the connection between them, may be more clearly manifested, and that devout and active participation by the faithful may be more easily achieved" (art. 50). In addition, the Constitution decreed that the liturgical books must be revised according to the prescribed rules, which enjoined the protection, on one hand, of the nature of the liturgy, and on the other, the elimination of that which has unnecessarily infiltrated into the liturgy over the course of time and the restitution, as needed, of that which had been abandoned. Such was the task assumed by our Committee on liturgy..."