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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: SeanJohnson on June 29, 2019, 05:55:45 AM

Title: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: SeanJohnson on June 29, 2019, 05:55:45 AM
ABOUT THE PRELATE CONCILING THAT HE WAS PRESENT IN THE ORDINATIONS OF THE US FSSPX
http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/2019/06/acerca-del-prelado-conciliar-que-estuvo.html (http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/2019/06/acerca-del-prelado-conciliar-que-estuvo.html)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pJEqSbmPLoI/XRXTLAxOW3I/AAAAAAAAEr0/TBRNAXPiQiYDJWshIel7mPtzWE4MzxaUwCLcBGAs/s640/USA5.jpg) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pJEqSbmPLoI/XRXTLAxOW3I/AAAAAAAAEr0/TBRNAXPiQiYDJWshIel7mPtzWE4MzxaUwCLcBGAs/s1600/USA5.jpg)


A Catholic catholic prelate of the Maronite (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&sp=nmt4&u=https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iglesia_cat%25C3%25B3lica_maronita&xid=17259,15700023,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700261&usg=ALkJrhhrty1HSHkmnhwhW23ZwelGjD_Lmw) rite attended the priestly (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&sp=nmt4&u=https://stas.org/en/news-events/news/ordinations-virginia-5-new-priests-church-48660&xid=17259,15700023,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700261&usg=ALkJrhg02VDyelyePt3_Iwvu6kHqc9P_Lg) ordinations at St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary in Virginia, USA on June 21. It is about the C Orobispo (*)Anthony Spinosa . See this prelate in the following photos published by the same FSSPX:


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cPBwq7v2VuM/XRXTBuVoJ_I/AAAAAAAAErs/GS2GQagRr0k99s-XFyTJ9xQZLF_UYBkKACLcBGAs/s640/USA3.png) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cPBwq7v2VuM/XRXTBuVoJ_I/AAAAAAAAErs/GS2GQagRr0k99s-XFyTJ9xQZLF_UYBkKACLcBGAs/s1600/USA3.png)


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TeyRNjPFtcQ/XRXTC7JGpfI/AAAAAAAAErw/huAmGlX23NEjj0FMiPpKL8dZNHkCZ7-kQCLcBGAs/s640/USA4.jpg) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TeyRNjPFtcQ/XRXTC7JGpfI/AAAAAAAAErw/huAmGlX23NEjj0FMiPpKL8dZNHkCZ7-kQCLcBGAs/s1600/USA4.jpg)


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3xlsIrYu6Io/XRXS6FxYiiI/AAAAAAAAErk/9IMzcR8_pvgngMGFDITtzqxO6dPLaHBAgCLcBGAs/s640/USA1.jpg) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3xlsIrYu6Io/XRXS6FxYiiI/AAAAAAAAErk/9IMzcR8_pvgngMGFDITtzqxO6dPLaHBAgCLcBGAs/s1600/USA1.jpg)



The Chorbishop Spinosa has previously attended (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&sp=nmt4&u=https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php%3Ftopic%3D18129.15&xid=17259,15700023,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700261&usg=ALkJrhiLKdzGqdexAwtdk0THyyNWycRX4Q) the ordinations of the Fraternity: 


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3S1mlRQc-0c/XRUud3VSCVI/AAAAAAAAE9k/nTw2WeQTg8kpJ96dhKcT3X_nbsQwTg75gCLcBGAs/s640/SPINOSA%2BSSPX.JPG) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3S1mlRQc-0c/XRUud3VSCVI/AAAAAAAAE9k/nTw2WeQTg8kpJ96dhKcT3X_nbsQwTg75gCLcBGAs/s1600/SPINOSA%2BSSPX.JPG)




Spinosa has participated (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&sp=nmt4&u=https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/3575-true-or-false-there-are-three-great-monotheistic-religions-in-the-world-today&xid=17259,15700023,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700261&usg=ALkJrhgMfHFLKClpqdq22cm_wO7xFVc7mA) in the "Catholic Identity" conferences organized by The Remnant, and in which the FSSPX also participates regularly (see the initial photo of this post).


Apparently, their links with the SSPX are quite close. For example, in his ordination (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&sp=nmt4&u=https://mary-ann.smugmug.com/Anthony-Salvatore-Spinoza-Prie/Chorbishop-Anthony-Spinoza/i-ppKJ9kk&xid=17259,15700023,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700261&usg=ALkJrhi9MUlRWlGzM826uMzCP232c_iPUg) and investiture as Corobispo, in 2016, Fr. Scott Gardner, Econome (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&sp=nmt4&u=https://sspx.org/en/node/728&xid=17259,15700023,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700261&usg=ALkJrhh3FJhwB2aTaSYU8Jcf2-9WyqssMg) of the United States District, attended. At the Novus Ordo Mass concelebrated on that occasion, this priest took an active part (although not concelebrating). 



(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_54X7SXEiX0/XRUwRnySj6I/AAAAAAAAE90/Ga34oIGvBdcs1pAZ6Kz0LCsi0qpZ6hx1QCLcBGAs/s400/SPINOSA%2BGARDNER1.JPG) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_54X7SXEiX0/XRUwRnySj6I/AAAAAAAAE90/Ga34oIGvBdcs1pAZ6Kz0LCsi0qpZ6hx1QCLcBGAs/s1600/SPINOSA%2BGARDNER1.JPG)



(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IickSHXDarg/XRUwc8SzC0I/AAAAAAAAE98/z8Zf8TXaxZMKdqtsksiRxBdMllPFDB1rACLcBGAs/s640/SPINOSA%2BGARDNER.jpg) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IickSHXDarg/XRUwc8SzC0I/AAAAAAAAE98/z8Zf8TXaxZMKdqtsksiRxBdMllPFDB1rACLcBGAs/s1600/SPINOSA%2BGARDNER.jpg)


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HUOeXHgfjBg/XRUwiv43FbI/AAAAAAAAE-I/SKISs3vfmcw-aVvzmFlLIJsJczYAofKfwCLcBGAs/s640/SPINOSA%2BGARDNER2.jpg) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HUOeXHgfjBg/XRUwiv43FbI/AAAAAAAAE-I/SKISs3vfmcw-aVvzmFlLIJsJczYAofKfwCLcBGAs/s1600/SPINOSA%2BGARDNER2.jpg)


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fBcA8irBMH0/XRUwlylIGuI/AAAAAAAAE-M/wtp01aRvW-0B5ry0iVpkGmvK6DGWI9xswCLcBGAs/s640/SPINOSA%2BGARDNER3.jpg) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fBcA8irBMH0/XRUwlylIGuI/AAAAAAAAE-M/wtp01aRvW-0B5ry0iVpkGmvK6DGWI9xswCLcBGAs/s1600/SPINOSA%2BGARDNER3.jpg)


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ni6ecWgdcPs/XRUwqjBoZTI/AAAAAAAAE-Q/lqbpYbMjZKI0rC9nwrHMcohXzMgUQO9lgCLcBGAs/s640/SPINOSA%2BGARDNER4.jpg) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ni6ecWgdcPs/XRUwqjBoZTI/AAAAAAAAE-Q/lqbpYbMjZKI0rC9nwrHMcohXzMgUQO9lgCLcBGAs/s1600/SPINOSA%2BGARDNER4.jpg)



Wanting to know a little more about Spinoza, we found some disturbing things on his Facebook page (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&sp=nmt4&u=https://www.facebook.com/people/Chorbishop-Anthony-Spinosa/100013282986229&xid=17259,15700023,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700261&usg=ALkJrhiFWeqBRQdTXDGI62A01h-tkQZM2A) : 


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DwfecZPfzjc/XRUxZ5kmvDI/AAAAAAAAE-k/xu66y0peGk4jYn7gk6fdv7pReV3QiNqrACLcBGAs/s1600/SPINOSA.JPG) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DwfecZPfzjc/XRUxZ5kmvDI/AAAAAAAAE-k/xu66y0peGk4jYn7gk6fdv7pReV3QiNqrACLcBGAs/s1600/SPINOSA.JPG)




- He points out that he "likes" the Fraternity of Saint Peter and a clothing site called "Romantic Catholic", not at all traditional ... nor manly. 


- But also - and this is really serious - between what he says "likes" has included an "adult entertainment" site, called   "Palace in the Pines", which is a nudist bar :

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g7Dp5xVvekg/XRXZJGPFO1I/AAAAAAAAEsU/capHLZCMyOMgHdNb9OkzxZy-mwVeHkHSQCLcBGAs/s320/SPINOSA3.JPG) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g7Dp5xVvekg/XRXZJGPFO1I/AAAAAAAAEsU/capHLZCMyOMgHdNb9OkzxZy-mwVeHkHSQCLcBGAs/s1600/SPINOSA3.JPG)


- He also points out that he "likes" the " Stand Up (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&sp=nmt4&u=http://www.standupfoundation-uk.org/&xid=17259,15700023,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700261&usg=ALkJrhh7paEjIi700kp7lqACgEsJX9uVIg) " foundation of sportsman Ben Cohen, anorganization dedicated to "combating bullying", especially against ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, transsɛҳuąƖs, etc. This Cohen is considered a "gαy icon" that has appeared on the cover of some magazines for ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs ( source (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&sp=nmt4&u=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Cohen_(rugby_union)&xid=17259,15700023,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700261&usg=ALkJrhjReLNc709LYthv_nZ3hWNXbHgCiA) ): 


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Yi0jwQ3Kw6U/XRXXwdELK7I/AAAAAAAAEsI/OEzzA9EaxyAoZZPsSFNhKahIk_E2SefFwCLcBGAs/s640/Cohen.jpg) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Yi0jwQ3Kw6U/XRXXwdELK7I/AAAAAAAAEsI/OEzzA9EaxyAoZZPsSFNhKahIk_E2SefFwCLcBGAs/s1600/Cohen.jpg)
Cohen's Facebook



- And he has registered as a " friend " a man who follows both openly ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ and "gαy dating " pages , as well as traditionalists . For example: 


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kv-WdnRdKLM/XRZytOWGsJI/AAAAAAAAEsg/oUwi4pCG3ooYgQdfaFYMF2GeKQrrm4gFwCLcBGAs/s400/wc.png) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kv-WdnRdKLM/XRZytOWGsJI/AAAAAAAAEsg/oUwi4pCG3ooYgQdfaFYMF2GeKQrrm4gFwCLcBGAs/s1600/wc.png)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yqmpa5QVPDg/XRZy3lzpWVI/AAAAAAAAEsw/ji0tLVoWfsEvr4VnY5XfnvDO7iYhjDSbQCLcBGAs/s400/WC2.png) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yqmpa5QVPDg/XRZy3lzpWVI/AAAAAAAAEsw/ji0tLVoWfsEvr4VnY5XfnvDO7iYhjDSbQCLcBGAs/s1600/WC2.png)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hFo2UyILTiU/XRZzDyQppuI/AAAAAAAAEtI/TROxTjxfb7EwCVD3nEIlmM-T4E85k_H-QCLcBGAs/s400/wc11.png) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hFo2UyILTiU/XRZzDyQppuI/AAAAAAAAEtI/TROxTjxfb7EwCVD3nEIlmM-T4E85k_H-QCLcBGAs/s1600/wc11.png)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lxbIbHwUDXA/XRZzF2QMaDI/AAAAAAAAEtQ/2F-DjklHLGACpGdMEXfM3QgBBixvnaYSwCLcBGAs/s320/wc12.png) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lxbIbHwUDXA/XRZzF2QMaDI/AAAAAAAAEtQ/2F-DjklHLGACpGdMEXfM3QgBBixvnaYSwCLcBGAs/s1600/wc12.png)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Cu08qyd51H8/XRZyvrll31I/AAAAAAAAEsk/dOj_8asSUGE6Fp3wKcl5RasJ5JQrgnHSgCLcBGAs/s320/Sin%2Bt%25C3%25ADtulWC8.png) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Cu08qyd51H8/XRZyvrll31I/AAAAAAAAEsk/dOj_8asSUGE6Fp3wKcl5RasJ5JQrgnHSgCLcBGAs/s1600/Sin%2Bt%25C3%25ADtulWC8.png)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mU2M1VQ6QkU/XRZyxkGVJxI/AAAAAAAAEso/-sX9V4riFPYm8oWW1ElIaVO9wDSOxF9ngCLcBGAs/s320/SW4.png) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mU2M1VQ6QkU/XRZyxkGVJxI/AAAAAAAAEso/-sX9V4riFPYm8oWW1ElIaVO9wDSOxF9ngCLcBGAs/s1600/SW4.png)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L24ywrDGOAw/XRZy5oD0LaI/AAAAAAAAEs0/uUu-4bTcSBc8UbE6xtwtU9OcQYTx2DYHQCLcBGAs/s320/WC6.png) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L24ywrDGOAw/XRZy5oD0LaI/AAAAAAAAEs0/uUu-4bTcSBc8UbE6xtwtU9OcQYTx2DYHQCLcBGAs/s1600/WC6.png)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lfT8EGrt1k0/XRZy7i6I2xI/AAAAAAAAEs4/i2GDaIqNqL01LkQp0CtIfmtaA1DCdGbHACLcBGAs/s320/WC7.png) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lfT8EGrt1k0/XRZy7i6I2xI/AAAAAAAAEs4/i2GDaIqNqL01LkQp0CtIfmtaA1DCdGbHACLcBGAs/s1600/WC7.png)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-W8bsuysAIP4/XRZy9Hx4JcI/AAAAAAAAEs8/zE3sdt1tjkw6GW1BYFXzqykLCc9C6rL4QCLcBGAs/s320/WC8.png) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-W8bsuysAIP4/XRZy9Hx4JcI/AAAAAAAAEs8/zE3sdt1tjkw6GW1BYFXzqykLCc9C6rL4QCLcBGAs/s1600/WC8.png)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J6tL7rLNUaQ/XRZy_jWKS6I/AAAAAAAAEtE/HRtQ98j9rhoHOJUWgdXTaIo9r4wco7aVACLcBGAs/s320/WC10.png) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J6tL7rLNUaQ/XRZy_jWKS6I/AAAAAAAAEtE/HRtQ98j9rhoHOJUWgdXTaIo9r4wco7aVACLcBGAs/s1600/WC10.png)

___________________ 

(*): In the Maronite Catholic Church, a choir is similar but not identical to an auxiliary bishop. Like a bishop, a Corobispo is ordained and can wear a bishop's dress that includes the miter and the staff A Maronite Corobispo can confer minor orders (lector and subdiaconado), but not the diaconate or the priesthood.
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: SeanJohnson on June 29, 2019, 06:06:05 AM
Questions:

1) Was the 2016 investiture Mass of Chorbishop Spinoza which Fr. Gardner participated in a Novus Ordo, or a Maronite rite Mass?

2) I don't know how Facebook works, so just wondering: Is it possible that Spinoza's "liking" the gαy bar, and his "friending" the sodomite pop up on their own (i.e., like ads popping up on websites we visit, or would he actively/deliberately have had to personally "like" and "friend" them)?
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on June 29, 2019, 02:01:52 PM
1- Maronite
2- yes

Louie Vorrechio gave talks at the shrine for the Assumption pilgrimage
From AKA SITE:
Quote
OLL Shrine PilgrimageI’m truly honored to tell you that next weekend, August 13-15, I will be presenting three conferences at the Basilica and National Shrine of Our Lady of Lebanon in North Jackson, OH, as part of their annual Assumption Pilgrimage.

The Basilica is a Maronite Catholic Church under the ecclesiastical jurisdiction of the Maronite Catholic Eparchy of Our Lady of Lebanon in St. Louis, MO.

Over the last several months I’ve exchanged some correspondence with the Shrine’s rector, Monsignor Anthony Spinosa. I was thrilled to learn that on Saturday, the 13th, he will be ordained (consecrated?) Chorbishop.

I had to admit to Monsignor that I had to Google the title!

From Wikipedia:

    In the Maronite Church, a chorbishop is similar to but not identical to an auxiliary bishop. Like a bishop, a chorbishop is ordained, and may wear a bishop’s vestments including the mitre (hat) and crozier (staff). A Maronite chorbishop has the power to confer minor orders (reader and the subdiaconate), but not the diaconate or priesthood. The role of protosyncellus (vicar general) is often filled by a chorbishop.

If we have any Maronite readers who wish to expand on this, that would be terrific.

In any case, if you happen to live nearby, please join us. This promises to be a wonderful weekend.

For my part, I will give two conferences on Sunday; one on the Social Kingship of Christ and the other on Christian Marriage. On Monday, I will give a conference on Fatima and Guadalupe and Our Lady’s messages.

NOTE: Preparing these conferences has recently taken some time away from the blog, just in case you noticed fewer postings. I want to thank all of you who support akaCatholic. Without your kindness I wouldn’t be able to give conferences like the ones upcoming – something I thoroughly enjoy doing.

Please pray for hearts and minds to be touched next weekend; mine included!
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on June 29, 2019, 02:10:01 PM
On Facebook when you 'like' a site it usually brings up other supposed related pages it sometimes beings totally unrelated things up so you could like accidentally, also if I was a pro life activity chair I might deliberately like a local pro abort page to know  when there activities are going on to have a counter demonstration. Or for example if the shrine is on the same city block as a gαy bar I might want to know if they planned crazy public crap before a childrens communion procession.
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on June 29, 2019, 02:11:23 PM
Pretty sure he's been attending ordinations for years pre chorbishop ordination though
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: Incredulous on June 29, 2019, 03:43:56 PM



What do you think Fr. Scott Gardiner's role in the Spinoza appearances?

Is he Spinoza's ecuмenical-trad mentor or bodyguard?

I could easily see him playing the role of the latter.

If too many laymen started asking Spinoza questions, he would need a character like Fr. Gardiner to intervene for him.
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: obediens on June 29, 2019, 06:29:32 PM
Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 29, 2019, 06:06:05 AM
Questions:

1) Was the 2016 investiture Mass of Chorbishop Spinoza which Fr. Gardner participated in a Novus Ordo, or a Maronite rite Mass?

2) I don't know how Facebook works, so just wondering: Is it possible that Spinoza's "liking" the gαy bar, and his "friending" the sodomite pop up on their own (i.e., like ads popping up on websites we visit, or would he actively/deliberately have had to personally "like" and "friend" them)?
It was a Maronite Rite Liturgy. 

Speculation: My guess is that the proprietor, either under his name, or whose profile had been named for the 'establishment' had friended +Spinoza, (then changed the profile/page from his own name to the 'establishment name,') and then in turn, switched from a profile to a business page, which makes you automatically 'like' it. 
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: Nadir on June 29, 2019, 07:54:25 PM
Seems like good reasons to stay off Facebook!
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: Benzel on June 30, 2019, 02:40:43 AM
Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 29, 2019, 06:06:05 AM
Questions:

1) Was the 2016 investiture Mass of Chorbishop Spinoza which Fr. Gardner participated in a Novus Ordo, or a Maronite rite Mass?

2) I don't know how Facebook works, so just wondering: Is it possible that Spinoza's "liking" the gαy bar, and his "friending" the sodomite pop up on their own (i.e., like ads popping up on websites we visit, or would he actively/deliberately have had to personally "like" and "friend" them)?
1) Fr. Gardner participed in a "Maronite Novus Ordo Mass".

“On December 4, 1963, the Vatican Ecuмenical Council issued a decree entitled " The Liturgy." In accordance with the terms of the decree and the wishes of the Maronite Clergy, 1) The Vatican Ecuмenical Council. 2) The Maronite Bishops. 3) Other Members of the Maronite belief, clergy and laity alike. 4) The Maronite Patriarch in Lebanon who was empowered (by the terms of the regulations issued November 21, 1965, pertaining specifically to the Eastern Church and being part of the Ecuмenical Decrees of Vatican II) to reform the liturgy of the Maronite Church, His Eminence Cardinal Patriarch Peter Paul Meouchi in a patriarchal decree, dated April 13, 1973, ordered the priests of the Maronite Church to amend the Mass and to use the new Ordo Missae, as new form of prayer and devotion for a trial of one year from the date of the decree. […] In 1992, His Eminence Cardinal and Patriarch Nasrallah Boutros Sfeir, has ordered the new edition of the Maronite Mass, ad experimentum for five years. The most important elements written into the Maronite Mass by the Patriarch at the time of the decree made April 13, 1973 and in July 1992 are as follows:
In his observance of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, a priest should always face the Congregation at those times when he directly addresses the Community or when he gives a blessing or benediction, and he should turn to the altar when he addresses or pray to the Lord.
The text of the Mass should be in the vernacular particularly at those times when the priest speaks to the congregation.” […] Souce: https://sjmaronite.org/index.php/en-us/the-mysteries/divine-liturgy.html (https://sjmaronite.org/index.php/en-us/the-mysteries/divine-liturgy.html)

“With the notable exception of the Syro-Malankars, the Eastern Catholic Churches of the Syriac tradition (Maronites, Chaldeans, Syriac Catholics, Syro-Malabars) have been undergoing a creeping "novusordoism" that has seen the widespread adoption of ad populum (easily verified on the Internet)” Source: https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/09/infusing-spirit-of-novus-ordo-into.html (https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/09/infusing-spirit-of-novus-ordo-into.html)

"easily verified on the Internet":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e-SdmpSvs0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e-SdmpSvs0)
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: Incredulous on June 30, 2019, 06:59:22 AM
Quote from: Benzel on June 30, 2019, 02:40:43 AM
1) Fr. Gardner participed in a "Maronite Novus Ordo Mass".

“On December 4, 1963, the Vatican Ecuмenical Council issued a decree entitled " The Liturgy." In accordance with the terms of the decree and the wishes of the Maronite Clergy, 1) The Vatican Ecuмenical Council. 2) The Maronite Bishops. 3) Other Members of the Maronite belief, clergy and laity alike. 4) The Maronite Patriarch in Lebanon who was empowered (by the terms of the regulations issued November 21, 1965, pertaining specifically to the Eastern Church and being part of the Ecuмenical Decrees of Vatican II) to reform the liturgy of the Maronite Church, His Eminence Cardinal Patriarch Peter Paul Meouchi in a patriarchal decree, dated April 13, 1973, ordered the priests of the Maronite Church to amend the Mass and to use the new Ordo Missae, as new form of prayer and devotion for a trial of one year from the date of the decree. […] In 1992, His Eminence Cardinal and Patriarch Nasrallah Boutros Sfeir, has ordered the new edition of the Maronite Mass, ad experimentum for five years. The most important elements written into the Maronite Mass by the Patriarch at the time of the decree made April 13, 1973 and in July 1992 are as follows:
In his observance of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, a priest should always face the Congregation at those times when he directly addresses the Community or when he gives a blessing or benediction, and he should turn to the altar when he addresses or pray to the Lord.
The text of the Mass should be in the vernacular particularly at those times when the priest speaks to the congregation.” […] Souce: https://sjmaronite.org/index.php/en-us/the-mysteries/divine-liturgy.html (https://sjmaronite.org/index.php/en-us/the-mysteries/divine-liturgy.html)

“With the notable exception of the Syro-Malankars, the Eastern Catholic Churches of the Syriac tradition (Maronites, Chaldeans, Syriac Catholics, Syro-Malabars) have been undergoing a creeping "novusordoism" that has seen the widespread adoption of ad populum (easily verified on the Internet)” Source: https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/09/infusing-spirit-of-novus-ordo-into.html (https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/09/infusing-spirit-of-novus-ordo-into.html)

"easily verified on the Internet":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e-SdmpSvs0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e-SdmpSvs0)

Quite interesting Benzel!

Looks like you've been following this subject for awhile?

How methodical was rabbi Montini, (a.k.a., Pope Paul VI) in searching far and wide to implement destruction upon the Holy Mass.

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.Z7ooHJeCzuWW5SrHGXDUOQHaK-%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
                                 Wearing the sign of his judaic authority
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: SeanJohnson on June 30, 2019, 06:01:02 PM
My own thought is that it would be incredibly reckless of this Chorbishop to like/friend the person and establishment in question, knowing his activity would be open to the gaze of the whole world, and this realization in turn heavily implies some other explanation beside his personal guilt (e.g., such as has been discussed above).

Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: JezusDeKoning on June 30, 2019, 08:04:46 PM
Quote from: Benzel on June 30, 2019, 02:40:43 AM
1) Fr. Gardner participed in a "Maronite Novus Ordo Mass".

“On December 4, 1963, the Vatican Ecuмenical Council issued a decree entitled " The Liturgy." In accordance with the terms of the decree and the wishes of the Maronite Clergy, 1) The Vatican Ecuмenical Council. 2) The Maronite Bishops. 3) Other Members of the Maronite belief, clergy and laity alike. 4) The Maronite Patriarch in Lebanon who was empowered (by the terms of the regulations issued November 21, 1965, pertaining specifically to the Eastern Church and being part of the Ecuмenical Decrees of Vatican II) to reform the liturgy of the Maronite Church, His Eminence Cardinal Patriarch Peter Paul Meouchi in a patriarchal decree, dated April 13, 1973, ordered the priests of the Maronite Church to amend the Mass and to use the new Ordo Missae, as new form of prayer and devotion for a trial of one year from the date of the decree. […] In 1992, His Eminence Cardinal and Patriarch Nasrallah Boutros Sfeir, has ordered the new edition of the Maronite Mass, ad experimentum for five years. The most important elements written into the Maronite Mass by the Patriarch at the time of the decree made April 13, 1973 and in July 1992 are as follows:
In his observance of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, a priest should always face the Congregation at those times when he directly addresses the Community or when he gives a blessing or benediction, and he should turn to the altar when he addresses or pray to the Lord.
The text of the Mass should be in the vernacular particularly at those times when the priest speaks to the congregation.” […] Souce: https://sjmaronite.org/index.php/en-us/the-mysteries/divine-liturgy.html (https://sjmaronite.org/index.php/en-us/the-mysteries/divine-liturgy.html)

“With the notable exception of the Syro-Malankars, the Eastern Catholic Churches of the Syriac tradition (Maronites, Chaldeans, Syriac Catholics, Syro-Malabars) have been undergoing a creeping "novusordoism" that has seen the widespread adoption of ad populum (easily verified on the Internet)” Source: https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/09/infusing-spirit-of-novus-ordo-into.html (https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/09/infusing-spirit-of-novus-ordo-into.html)

"easily verified on the Internet":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e-SdmpSvs0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e-SdmpSvs0)
Oh, absolutely. 100%. There's no need for quotes - the Maronite liturgy IS the Novus Ordo. And their clergy seem to be indistinguishable from Novus Ordo clergy, too.
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: homeschoolmom on June 30, 2019, 09:09:52 PM
You can give him the benefit of the doubt if you want, because pages can get "liked" by accident. But the "Like" button has to be clicked. A liked page doesn't show up out of nowhere. It has to be clicked. Again, it could be by accident, like the slip of a big thumb on a small phone.

FB will suggest a lot of pages similar to what you've already liked, or pages that your friends like. There is usually some degree of relation to something or someone else in your circle. As far as I have experienced I have never had such a page suggested for liking since it's nowhere near my circle. But the pages could have been suggested to him as pages that that "friend" mentioned above likes and he may have accidentally liked them himself. That's the benefit of the doubt that could be afforded.

To me this is a red flag that gets filed away and if nothing comes of it, then it was a fαℓѕє fℓαg. If it is accompanied by other red flags at some point in the future, then it couldn't continue to be explained away.

I can't find the profile that is screenshot above. Only a very clean Chorbishop Anthony S Spinosa profile is showing up for me. I don't know if it's the same person.
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: Mega-fin on June 30, 2019, 09:38:22 PM
Well besides all this, he’s a big face for the Remnant and CFN and a speaker at the CIC, friend of the SSPX, FSSP and ICK ... a tradcuмenist, we’re all ok, no principles. +ABL is ok, it’s also ok to stab him in the back. As long as we all have pretty liturgy and say some conservatives things. It’s all good! 

Chorbishop Anthony Spinosa will be another face who will fade in with the indult Michael Matt/Chris Ferreira crowd. 

I think his friendship to the nuSociety says more about it in this regard then it does about him. 
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: Incredulous on June 30, 2019, 10:32:41 PM
Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 30, 2019, 06:01:02 PM
My own thought is that it would be incredibly reckless of this Chorbishop to like/friend the person and establishment in question, knowing his activity would be open to the gaze of the whole world, and this realization in turn heavily implies some other explanation beside his personal guilt (e.g., such as has been discussed above).
Oh, he was just probably "reaching-out" to the sinners"

Funny, I don't recall Max Krah ever denying his facebook content?
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 01, 2019, 12:46:22 PM
FYI the site is FOS, I have a letter from a priest friend who was by the Oriental congregation stating that no permission has ever been given to any eastern churches to face the people. The priest in question is a Maronite. The six year experiment went on until 2012 the liturgical book has no such rubrics.
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 03, 2019, 07:21:46 AM
Quote from: confederate catholic on July 01, 2019, 12:46:22 PM
FYI the site is FOS, I have a letter from a priest friend who was by the Oriental congregation stating that no permission has ever been given to any eastern churches to face the people. The priest in question is a Maronite. The six year experiment went on until 2012 the liturgical book has no such rubrics.

On the one hand, it is interesting that the website which published the OP is today reaffirming the “Novus Ordo of the Maronite Rite” theory, despite your contention that the other post regarding the introduction of modernized rubrics (eg., versus populum , etc all) pertained only to a 5-year ad experimentum, which expired and was not renewed.

[On the other hand -and as a completely irrelevant aside- the Novus Ordo of Pius XII also paved the way for the new Holy Week rites with a 5-year experimental period to acclimate the clergy and faithful, except that according to your post, the Latin modernists succeeded where the Maronite modernists failed.]

For the record, I was in the seminary with Fr. Gardner, and despite not having seen him for many years, consider him a friend (a fact which may make him cringe).  So when I receive an email from him explaining that not only has he not attended a NOM since before he entered the seminary, but additionally, that even the “worst” Maronite Rite Mass he has attended -not participated in- was much more traditional than the most conservative NOM, I am inclined to believe it.

I do not yet have permission to post that email, and am unsure if such permission will be forthcoming or not.
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 03, 2019, 01:28:59 PM
Incidentally, anyone who attends the Novus Ordo of Pius XII implicitly accepts in principle the versus populum posture (which includes almost every SSPXer, and many Resistance, sedes and indultarians), since this is present in several instances in the fabricated 1956 Palm Sunday rite (both for the blessing of palms, and also for the recitation of the prayer at the conclusion of the procession), or on Holy Saturday when placing the baptismal water in a basin in the middle of the sanctuary or at the communion rail.

Add to this more "active participation" = vocal participation, and you get the Novus Ordo dialogue of bantering back and forth with the priest, at the recitation of the Our Father, and the renewal of baptismal promises.  Wow, am I EVER participating!!!

And then of course, there is the dialogue mass itself, which paved the way for Pius XII's Novus Ordo of Holy Week, which is accepted by the majority of SSPXers (and even some Resistance, mostly in a Europe where the novelties of the liturgical reform preceded Vatican II, and therefore pass for "traditional").

Point being, even if the lapsed modernist experimental revisions in the Maronite Rite had persisted, most SSPX and many Resistance (and sede) commentators would not be in a position to oppose these novelties, without themselves being guilty of hypocrisy or inconsistency:

How can they criticize in the Maronite Rite that which they have accepted in the Latin TLM?

Just one more reason (among so many others!) to reject the liturgical novelties of the dialogue mass and Pius XII's holy week revisions.

If the indulterers can have the fully Catholic rites without incurring suspicion of sedevacantism (think about that!), why can't I (and why shouldn't you)?
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: Mr G on July 03, 2019, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 03, 2019, 01:28:59 PM

Just one more reason (among so many others!) to reject the liturgical novelties of the dialogue mass and Pius XII's holy week revisions.

If the indulterers can have the fully Catholic rites without incurring suspicion of sedevacantism (think about that!), why can't I (and why shouldn't you)?
This is very true!
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: Cristera on July 03, 2019, 07:40:11 PM
The current Maronite Missal Qurbono: The Book of Offering (1994) states in its foreword:


"In the aftermath of the Second Vatican Ecuмenical Council, which concluded its sessions on the feast of the Immaculate Conception, December 8, 1965, the Church in both the West and the East, set about to implement the decrees of the Council. The Council paid special attention to the liturgy, the liturgy has great influence over the faithful and plays an important role in the regulation of the discipline for worship. In times past, it was said, "The law of worship is the law for belief”  The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, dated December 4, 1963, was first among the conciliar docuмents. It issued specific rules for liturgical reform, such as; "The rite of the Quddas/Qurbono is to be revised in such a way that the intrinsic nature and purpose of its several parts, as well as the connection between them, may be more clearly manifested, and that devout and active participation by the faithful may be more easily achieved" (art. 50). In addition, the Constitution decreed that the liturgical books must be revised according to the prescribed rules, which enjoined the protection, on one hand, of the nature of the liturgy, and on the other, the elimination of that which has unnecessarily infiltrated into the liturgy over the course of time and the restitution, as needed, of that which had been abandoned. Such was the task assumed by our Committee on liturgy..."
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 03, 2019, 07:41:11 PM
Don't get me wrong, the rubric is not there but facing the people is what most do. The reforms had good and bad points. The good is the structure of Antiochian liturgy is there. So much so that the Syrian orthodox and Malankara feel it to be now ' like theirs. The overt Latinizations from pre VII were removed. The problem though is twofold
First they opted for the simplest way of doing things. For example one prayer said by the faithful is a paragraph in legnth. The actual hymn in all the orthodox equivalent churches is two PAGES long. Also if it can be made pedantic it was.
Second the Lebanese are lazy in spiritual matters and quite western, they will do (anything) if it means being in the favor of Rome, which meant that any portion of the new translation which would use language that might be construed as frightening was removed.
The liturgy mentions hell, the sacrifice and other elements. Mainly the Maronite liturgy is structured properly, shortened considerably, and butchered in translation.
Akso what Rome was doing, trying to 'find an earlier authentic version' i.e. the NO probably was highly influenced by the Maronite liturgy because it was the only  oriental liturgy they were familiar with which makes the Maronite look NO when the NO really is influenced by the Maronite.
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 03, 2019, 07:42:56 PM
The 1994 is ad experimentum 2015 is the official version
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 03, 2019, 10:08:01 PM
Quote from: Cristera on July 03, 2019, 07:40:11 PM
The current Maronite Missal Qurbono: The Book of Offering (1994) states in its foreword:


"In the aftermath of the Second Vatican Ecuмenical Council, which concluded its sessions on the feast of the Immaculate Conception, December 8, 1965, the Church in both the West and the East, set about to implement the decrees of the Council. The Council paid special attention to the liturgy, the liturgy has great influence over the faithful and plays an important role in the regulation of the discipline for worship. In times past, it was said, "The law of worship is the law for belief”  The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, dated December 4, 1963, was first among the conciliar docuмents. It issued specific rules for liturgical reform, such as; "The rite of the Quddas/Qurbono is to be revised in such a way that the intrinsic nature and purpose of its several parts, as well as the connection between them, may be more clearly manifested, and that devout and active participation by the faithful may be more easily achieved" (art. 50). In addition, the Constitution decreed that the liturgical books must be revised according to the prescribed rules, which enjoined the protection, on one hand, of the nature of the liturgy, and on the other, the elimination of that which has unnecessarily infiltrated into the liturgy over the course of time and the restitution, as needed, of that which had been abandoned. Such was the task assumed by our Committee on liturgy..."

Per Confederate Catholic, that is NOT the current Maronite Missal.

The 1994 missal you are citing was a 5-year ad experimentum missal, which has lapsed.

The current missal was promulgated in 2015 (if Confederate Catholic is correct).
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 03, 2019, 10:32:33 PM
I will try to photograph the copy I have when I finish work. I think that the books are already out of print
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 03, 2019, 10:37:34 PM
Quote from: confederate catholic on July 03, 2019, 10:32:33 PM
I will try to photograph the copy I have when I finish work. I think that the books are already out of print
It would also be excellent to see a copy of the current rubrics for the Maronite Rite (i.e., If the deplorable 1994 ad experimentum rubrics lapsed, but were replaced by equally deplorable rubrics in 2015, then noting their lapse is merely academic).
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 03, 2019, 11:46:15 PM
Here's a pic of the decree for the US
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 04, 2019, 12:08:30 AM
Apparently the last liturgical revision was 2005. It was promulgated in the English eparchies in the US in 2012.

The missal has no direction of orientation of the priest for the liturgy in it. The Patriarch has no authority over the diaspora and the crap about the bishops making decisions about orientation is blatant falsehood because the oriental congregation would have to approve it. No such docuмent exists. They choose to ignore whole bits of inconvenient law. They move Peter and Paul  and Holy Cross obligations to the Sunday. This is forbidden by eastern canon law. The problem is that the bishops ignore what they want to
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 04, 2019, 05:58:39 AM
Quote from: confederate catholic on July 04, 2019, 12:08:30 AM
Apparently the last liturgical revision was 2005. It was promulgated in the English eparchies in the US in 2012.

The missal has no direction of orientation of the priest for the liturgy in it. The Patriarch has no authority over the diaspora and the crap about the bishops making decisions about orientation is blatant falsehood because the oriental congregation would have to approve it. No such docuмent exists. They choose to ignore whole bits of inconvenient law. They move Peter and Paul  and Holy Cross obligations to the Sunday. This is forbidden by eastern canon law. The problem is that the bishops ignore what they want to
Thank you, CC.
So here’s the big question:
Would this version of the Maronite Rite be considered to be a “Novus Ordo of the Maronite Rite” in comparison to a Maronite Rite Mass of, say, 100 or 600 years ago? 
Are there “striking departures from the theology of the Mass as defined at Trent” or any substantial changes?
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 04, 2019, 10:31:46 AM
That's a difficult question to answer for two reasons
First the theology of Trent in an eastern liturgy is problematic since in some aspects the liturgical theology is different but I'm guessing what's referred to is sacrificial language. That is explicitly mentioned at least three times in the Anaphora of the Twelve Apostles also in the hymns. I attached one to the post.
There were substantial changes, the liturgy had a period post VII where everyone experimented and multiple versions of actual stuff worse than the NO was done wherever they wanted, the oriental congregation stepped in and demanded that the commission enforce the books in existence and do the actual reforms that were required.
The reforms removed from the liturgy Latinizations that were placed in at the synod of Mt Lebanon in the 1760s. This was a good thing. The problem is this was done by a group of bishops who were now NO in mindset, they made two glaring errors
1-the transition was made from Arabic. The liturgical language is Syciac/Aramaic this  is like making a new Latin mass from the 'original' English.
2-the biggest problem is that when they removed the Latin accretions they didn't replace them with Syriac liturgical practice.
3-This makes up a very uncomfortable liturgy especially for tradition minded Byzantine and Latins. To see a good translation for liturgy in the Syriac Tradition the new Chaldean translation, examples are available at the eparchy on the west coast. Just be prepared east Syriac and Armenians still have deaconesses
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 04, 2019, 10:35:49 AM
Also they had a crap book for music the first edition had all kinds of NO crap in it. One hymn we refer to as I been working on the railroad because they adapted all kinds of folk tunes to hymns. Fun times
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 04, 2019, 12:51:03 PM
CC-

So in your opinion, was the Maronite Rite attended by the priest in the OP a modernist invention, or a traditional Maronite Rite (with perhaps a couple unfortunate modernizations)?

If you could only characterize it as "mostly modernist" or "mostly traditional," which would it be?
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 04, 2019, 02:08:30 PM
Fun to head I say modern Lebanese version of traditional Maronite liturgy
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 04, 2019, 03:51:31 PM
Should be hard to say not fun. Auto correct using my phone
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 04, 2019, 04:04:37 PM
The oriental churches are very child like in theology. For example most would not have any idea about  the difference between lets say nature and person. The use of philosophy is abhorrent to Antiocian theology. The emphasis is upon the " Voice which called Adam from amongst the trees, the seraphim shaking their wings because of Adams banishment and The Voice calling Adam back to life. The Voice which Adam said sounded like that which had called him in Paradise" The theology is thoroughly Aramaic and Persian in character and thoroughly Semetic. There are existing Church structures that were clearly Jєωιѕн in origin. The building is supposed to be specifically structured that way.
The whole mindset is completely different than the Latin theology.
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: JezusDeKoning on July 04, 2019, 06:02:57 PM
You're right, the Lebanese do seem to be quite lazy with the liturgy. I do not speak Arabic, but from what I saw, I saw this bizarre Hollywood-esque synthesizer music, half the congregation in jeans and no head covering, and people making a mockery of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It was quite sad.
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 04, 2019, 06:55:22 PM
The synthesizer is used quite frequently by Indian and other middle eastern churches. The western organ is incapable of some of the semi tone notes prevalent in eastern music, this becomes an excuse for it's abuse. The Malankara are less guilty of all since the synthesizer is used to modernize actual Syriac sacred music
Title: Re: Disturbing Article: SSPX & Chorbishop Spinoza
Post by: confederate catholic on July 04, 2019, 06:58:44 PM
Also headcoverings are not used by some as a distinction between Christians women and Muslim. Lebanese are just too busy clubbing to remember their headcovering