CathInfo.com

JD -- that looks like something may have been lost in the translation. This is from
the French, you know. So someone who knows French and can look at the original
might have something to offer, but not me, sorry.

[/b]


The demonization of Father Celier and Father de Cacqueray is purely diabolical and is shown by the frenzy of posts having for only reference the site virgo-maria  which is well known in France and Belgium for having dragged Bishop Williamson in the mud by repeatedly accusing him of being a mole (une taupe) and a freemason (Bishop Williamson’s own words to me). See the link provided:

http://www.virgo-maria.org/D-Mgr-Williamson-leurre/index_mgr_williamson_leurre.htm

Surely not a very trustworthy source!

The poster even admits that he cannot speak or understand French!

What a sinister farce!

I would like to ask the moderators to stop further demonization of these two SSPX priests.

The demonization of Father Celier and Father de Cacqueray is purely diabolical and is shown by the frenzy of posts having for only reference the site virgo-maria  which is well known in France and Belgium for having dragged Bishop Williamson in the mud by repeatedly accusing him of being a mole (une taupe) and a freemason (Bishop Williamson’s own words to me). See the link provided:

http://www.virgo-maria.org/D-Mgr-Williamson-leurre/index_mgr_williamson_leurre.htm

Surely not a very trustworthy source!

The poster even admits that he cannot speak or understand French!

What a sinister farce!

I would like to ask the moderators to stop further demonization of these two SSPX priests.

Nemmersdorf, the poster may go too far, but I fear you may also go too far in this case it is not so black OR white.

Like you I quite dislike virgo-maria's bashing of +Williamson for whom I have the highest respect. (BTW I cannot see that they accuse him of being a freemason as you state, but instead they accuse him of being a rosicrusian, and on weak grounds IMO).

Now this does not mean that all they say is wrong.

Re. Celier's book Benoît XVI et les traditionalistes, it is true that it has a foreword (p. 9-10) by the "Directeur de la collection", and on the first page it is stated "Une collection dirigée by Jean-Luc Maxence". So Celier's book is edited by JL Maxence and has a foreword by JL Maxence.

It is quite easy (e.g. checking out his publications and activities on the internet) to find out that J.-L. Maxence is a notorious freemason. Celier cannot have ignored that, the more that he was a very active member in the conspiracy brotherhood "G.R.E.C." (in which the sellout was planned and the deal between Fellay and Ratzinger, at the time not a pope, was arranged) which G.R.E.C is now no longer active and of which some conciliar members such as Perrin have admitted its existence and activities, even on the "Forum Catholique".

Now re. F. de Caqueray, I think like you that the poster may go too far. De Cacqueray has to manage the huge French branch of the Society, and cannot look at all the details and check everything. I would not expect him to take time to check whether Celier's editor is a freemason. Beside F. Celier, like F. Lorans who was  also quite involved in the GREC on behalf of the FSSPX (actually of +F...), has +Fellay's full backup and Celier's book is full of praise for +Fellay. I am pretty sure that de Cacqueray is not compromised.

Re. other points by the poster, there is some truth, but some distortion.
Celier has quite a section on his vision of the "Pipaule" mass, a crossing between the traditional mass and the Bugnigi's masonic and the man-centered novo ordo. Yet this is not such an abomination as one may expect, because Celier does not speak of corrupting the traditional theocentric Christian mass with the masonic anthropocentric novo ordo, but instead of elevating the novo ordo with elements of the traditional mass e.g.:

- p. 196 of the book: "Les jeunes prêtres, voulant réenraciner dans la tradition la liturgie qu'ils célèbrent en public (donc la liturgie nouvelle), y importeraient tout simplement des parties de la liturgie traditionnelle qu'ils célèbrent plus occasionnellement)",
so he is clearly pointing at young motu proprio priest celebrating both kinds of liturgy;

-p. 198: "Au fil des années, avec l'arrivée progressive de prêtres plus attachés à la tradition liturgique, et d'ailleurs formés eux-mêmes dans leur jeunesse avec des rites plus traditionels, la nouvelle liturgie serait davantage irriguée de formules traditionnelles et d'esprit traditionnel. C'est ainsi qu'on verrait peut-être naître et s'imposer au fil de années ce rite hybride que j'ai appelé de façon humoristique la "messe pipaule"."

Sorry to contradict you, Sugar, oops!... Suger, sorry... The following is from virgo-maria concerning Bishop Williamson[/b]

This is indeed a strong enough citation. Thank you, Nemmersdorf, for correcting me!  virgomaria is so messy with chaotic rantings that I got it wrong.