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Author Topic: Different translations of the letter.  (Read 1983 times)

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Offline Telesphorus

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Different translations of the letter.
« on: May 15, 2012, 04:45:29 AM »
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  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com/blog/2012/05/sspxrome-accord-is-a-split-inevitable/

    This translation seems to vary a great deal, to be rather "free" and more slanted than the literal translation from the French.

    Quote


    Letters between Bishop Fellay the other three SSPX bishops …

     (1)  Letter of Bishops Tissier de Mallerais, de Galarreta and Williamson

    The SSPX General Council has for months been considering Roman proposals for a practical accord, and this letter is to state our unanimous formal opposition to such an accord.

    Of course there are honest folk on both sides, but all must admit that the Church’s authorities have separated themselves from Catholic truth and are more determined than ever to continue as such, as recent events (Assisi III) have shown.

    The profound problem which Catholics face was characterised by Archbishop Lefebvre as a continuation of the papal fight against liberal Catholicism over the last two hundred years and against the attempt to reconcile the Church and the Modern World. His conclusion was that Vatican II did not just include particular errors but represented a total perversion of the mind, a new philosophy founded on subjectivism.

    Benedict XVI is no better than John Paul II in this regard, as Bishop Tissier’s study of his thought (La Foi au Péril de la Raison) has shown: he puts human subjective fantasy in the place of God’s objective reality and subjects the Church to the modern world. How can a practical agreement sort out this problem?

    If Benedict XVI is benevolent towards Tradition, he can afford to be since he is a subjectivist. But if liberal subjectivists can tolerate truth, they cannot tolerate truth which refuses to tolerate error; and they will not tolerate it if it condemns the Council’s doctrine. So no practical agreement can be made which will not involve gradually silencing the Society’s critique of the Council and the New Mass. The Society would then cease to oppose the universal apostasy of our time, and who would protect it from the Roman Curia and the bishops? Benedict XVI?

    This slide will be inevitable, and already confession of the Faith is the exception rather than the rule. Many decent people begged Archbishop Lefebvre to make an agreement in 1988 and to extend thus his apostolate, but he refused, saying to us that it would be ambiguous and that the Society and Rome would be working in opposite directions and that this would make us rot. How can an agreement be made now and the Society not rot in contradiction?

    When Rome later made benevolent gestures, the Archbishop was still wary. He feared that such actions were simply strategies to draw back as many of the faithful as possible and he told us to beware of this very danger: we have not fought for so long against errors only now to put ourselves into the hands of those who profess those errors. More than denouncing errors, the Society’s role is to oppose the Roman authorities which spread them. So will the Society now put itself into the hands of those whose obstinacy (in error) we have recent witnessed again?

    Beware. You are leading the Society to an irreversible split, and if you make an accord it will have powerfully destructive forces which the Society will not be able to stand. Since the situation has not been changed and the condition of the 2006 General Chapter not met (doctrinal change in Rome), listen to our Founder who was right 25 years ago, as now. Do not make a purely practical accord.

    Bishops de Galaretta, Tissier de Mallerais and Williamson.


    Offline Nemmersdorf

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    Different translations of the letter.
    « Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 05:54:14 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    http://www.catholictruthscotland.com/blog/2012/05/sspxrome-accord-is-a-split-inevitable/

    This translation seems to vary a great deal, to be rather "free" and more slanted than the literal translation from the French.

    Quote


    Letters between Bishop Fellay the other three SSPX bishops …

     (1)  Letter of Bishops Tissier de Mallerais, de Galarreta and Williamson

    The SSPX General Council has for months been considering Roman proposals for a practical accord, and this letter is to state our unanimous formal opposition to such an accord.

    Of course there are honest folk on both sides, but all must admit that the Church’s authorities have separated themselves from Catholic truth and are more determined than ever to continue as such, as recent events (Assisi III) have shown.

    The profound problem which Catholics face was characterised by Archbishop Lefebvre as a continuation of the papal fight against liberal Catholicism over the last two hundred years and against the attempt to reconcile the Church and the Modern World. His conclusion was that Vatican II did not just include particular errors but represented a total perversion of the mind, a new philosophy founded on subjectivism.

    Benedict XVI is no better than John Paul II in this regard, as Bishop Tissier’s study of his thought (La Foi au Péril de la Raison) has shown: he puts human subjective fantasy in the place of God’s objective reality and subjects the Church to the modern world. How can a practical agreement sort out this problem?

    If Benedict XVI is benevolent towards Tradition, he can afford to be since he is a subjectivist. But if liberal subjectivists can tolerate truth, they cannot tolerate truth which refuses to tolerate error; and they will not tolerate it if it condemns the Council’s doctrine. So no practical agreement can be made which will not involve gradually silencing the Society’s critique of the Council and the New Mass. The Society would then cease to oppose the universal apostasy of our time, and who would protect it from the Roman Curia and the bishops? Benedict XVI?

    This slide will be inevitable, and already confession of the Faith is the exception rather than the rule. Many decent people begged Archbishop Lefebvre to make an agreement in 1988 and to extend thus his apostolate, but he refused, saying to us that it would be ambiguous and that the Society and Rome would be working in opposite directions and that this would make us rot. How can an agreement be made now and the Society not rot in contradiction?

    When Rome later made benevolent gestures, the Archbishop was still wary. He feared that such actions were simply strategies to draw back as many of the faithful as possible and he told us to beware of this very danger: we have not fought for so long against errors only now to put ourselves into the hands of those who profess those errors. More than denouncing errors, the Society’s role is to oppose the Roman authorities which spread them. So will the Society now put itself into the hands of those whose obstinacy (in error) we have recent witnessed again?

    Beware. You are leading the Society to an irreversible split, and if you make an accord it will have powerfully destructive forces which the Society will not be able to stand. Since the situation has not been changed and the condition of the 2006 General Chapter not met (doctrinal change in Rome), listen to our Founder who was right 25 years ago, as now. Do not make a purely practical accord.


    Bishops de Galaretta, Tissier de Mallerais and Williamson.





    Dear Telesphorus

    The text you are mentioning is not a translation but a summary and an interpretation.


    The correct translation was posted by Matthew:

    "Here is a corrected English translation, supplied to me by a helpful member."

    Attached file: Letter of the Three Bishops- corrected English Translation.doc (27 downloads, 23 KB)

    Posted May 12, 2012, 12:26 am page 10

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=18681&min=90&num=10




    Offline Wessex

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    Different translations of the letter.
    « Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 06:54:15 AM »
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  • Reading the comments on this Scottish blog, most have fallen for the reckless 'spiritual' tone of Fellay's argument. Someone commented elsewhere that this should appeal greatly to the Society's French priests!

    Offline John Grace

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    Different translations of the letter.
    « Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 08:48:11 AM »
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  • I remember the editor of Catholic Truth allowing calumny to be spread about friends of mine so it's not a periodical I support or recommend. Leaving aside my personal opinion of Patricia McKeever, I note this

    http://www.catholictruthscotland.com/blog/2012/05/sspxrome-accord-is-a-split-inevitable/#comments
    Quote
    SSPX/Rome Accord – is a split inevitable?
    May 14, 2012 in bishops, doctrine, Liturgy, Papacy, pope benedict, second vatican council, sspx by editor | 38 comments
    The following letters were leaked – nobody seems to know by whom  – but they appear to be authentic, not least since the authenticity of the letters has not been refuted by the authors although the leak has been condemned in an official statement

    When I read these letters, my immediate response was that Bishop Fellay is right. Absolutely.  What do you think?  I’m sticking with Bishop Fellay come what may. What about you?


    editor on May 14, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Quote
    Oremus,

    I have to admit that, although I posted the link to the SSPX statement which you quote, the request not to respond to the leaked letters did not register with me or I wouldn’t have posted this discussion. Interestingly, without having read that exhortation, my first instinct was NOT to publish and, indeed, I only changed my mind when reading comments in the blogosphere on the subject. Now that we have published the letters here, I am hopeful that our discussion will help to change the minds of those who are opposed to Bishop Fellay, since, judging by the blogosphere to date, they seem to be in the majority.

    There is no question of any “gossip” here. All comments so far have rightly focused only on what is now in the public domain, and are centred on seeking to reach a correct conclusion.

    It is clear that Bishop Williamson, lamentably, has quite a following – one of the reasons being that there are, unfortunately, people who are quite happy with the present situation. They’re often, though not always, the same people, in my experience, who do not welcome newcomers to the SSPX chapels. They do not have a genuinely Catholic spirit. Perhaps, please God, our bloggers will help to make some of those opposed to Bishop Fellay think again


    She laments that Bishop Williamson has "quite a following". Bishop Williamson and the other two Bishops remain faithful to the principles of Archbishop Lefebvre so naturally they have quite a "following".

    Offline John Grace

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    Different translations of the letter.
    « Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 08:58:22 AM »
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  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com/blog/2012/05/sspxrome-accord-is-a-split-inevitable/#comments

    Athanasius on May 15, 2012 at 12:14 pm
    Quote
    Oremus is right, we should obey the request of Bishop Fellay and not comment further on this situation. I immediately abandoned an article I was writing when I read this request. Obedience to our lawful superiors must always take precedence. To comment is to lend credence to a small group who are trying to cause division within the SSPX. Our best course of action right now is to redouble our prayers to Our Lady for Bishop Fellay and the Pope.


    I started laughing when I read this.


    Offline Ethelred

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    Different translations of the letter.
    « Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 09:54:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    I started laughing when I read this.

    Oh yes, it's laughable indeed.
    It's this anti-catholic blind obedience which brought us these Newpopes and their nearly finished destruction of the Church.

    ... but it also brought us Bp Fellay as superior general I'm afraid, despite Archbishop Lefebvre's wish that priests instead of bishops should be general superiors.

    The Archbishop said so wise words about catholic obedience versus blind obedience. But it looks like only a few understand him anymore.

    Offline John Grace

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    Different translations of the letter.
    « Reply #6 on: May 15, 2012, 10:24:11 AM »
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  • Will Catholic 'Truth' provide the corrected translation to its readers?

    Offline Wessex

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    Different translations of the letter.
    « Reply #7 on: May 15, 2012, 10:27:05 AM »
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  • Oh, no! We are going to hear a lot about not having the right 'Catholic spirit' from these conciliar newbies. And it is not going to be long before they will start invoking the 'Spirit of Vatican 2'. This is a certainty.


    Offline John Grace

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    Different translations of the letter.
    « Reply #8 on: May 15, 2012, 10:39:06 AM »
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  • She makes it clear.She is honest to admit the majority wish to remain true to principles of Archbishop Lefebvre.  

    Quote
    Note:  when I first heard about this leak, I decided not to publish but since these letters are all over the internet, and from dipping a toe in the blogosphere, so to speak, the majority appear to think Bishop Williamson et al are in the right.  I strongly disagree. Everything, but everything that Bishop Fellay says has the ring of Catholic truth to it – what do you think? As I said above,  I’m sticking with Bishop Fellay come what may. What about you?