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Author Topic: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?  (Read 1897 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
« on: June 22, 2019, 07:05:09 PM »
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  • From the French Resistance forum:

    http://resistance.vraiforum.com/t955-Ordinations-a-Winona.htm

    Zoom in on the Bishop in the OP.

    He is definitely not an SSPX Bishop, but as the French forum observes, no SSPX websites say anything about it.

    The more you zoom in on the pic, the more he resembles +Rifan.

    Did the SSPX sneak this one in?

    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #1 on: June 22, 2019, 07:53:07 PM »
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  • No. It is the Maronite Chorbishop, Anthony Spinoza. You can tell he is Maronite by his headgear. Why would +Rifan assist at the SSPX ordinations in Winona?

    +Anthony Spinoza already attended ordinations in the past.

    Also a "chorbishop" is not exactly equivalent to a bishop in the Western Church.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorbishop


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #2 on: June 22, 2019, 08:09:18 PM »
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  • No. It is the Maronite Chorbishop, Anthony Spinoza. You can tell he is Maronite by his headgear. Why would +Rifan assist at the SSPX ordinations in Winona?

    +Anthony Spinoza already attended ordinations in the past.

    Also a "chorbishop" is not exactly equivalent to a bishop in the Western Church.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorbishop

    You are offended that I thought it might be Rifan?

    Because that is so far below the +Huonder-lodging SSPX?

    NB: Looks like he is just another Remnant-style tradcuмenist from the Catholic Identity Conference: https://catholicidentityconference.org/index.php/component/speventum/speaker/18-chorbishop-anthony-spinosa
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #3 on: June 22, 2019, 08:18:29 PM »
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  • Not sure where you got I would be offended. Also, I am only trying to correct the indication that it would be +Rifan. We must always strive for the truth. You didn't even say "thank you for correcting that." 

    I am only saying that for +Rifan to do an about-face and attend SSPX ordinations would be shocking even given everything that has transpired. Think about it logically, +Rifan attending would not go under the radar and would show that all of Bishop Fellay's words about Campos meant nothing -- clear and tangible proof and none of these vague statements coming from the SSPX. The SSPX is not yet there...almost...not yet.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #4 on: June 22, 2019, 08:24:13 PM »
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  • Not sure where you got I would be offended. Also, I am only trying to correct the indication that it would be +Rifan. We must always strive for the truth. You didn't even say "thank you for correcting that."

    I am only saying that for +Rifan to do an about-face and attend SSPX ordinations would be shocking even given everything that has transpired. Think about it logically, +Rifan attending would not go under the radar and would show that all of Bishop Fellay's words about Campos meant nothing -- clear and tangible proof and none of these vague statements coming from the SSPX. The SSPX is not yet there...almost...not yet.

    You are obviously very naive about the extent and depth of the SSPX compromises:

    For +Rifan to have attended SSPX ordinations in Winona would have been perfectly in line with its diocesan-tradcuмenical collaborations of late (much like this tradcuмenical conservative attending the ordinations).

    As far as +Fellay's words about Campos meaning nothing, you might need to come to terms with that (e.g., by comparing his condemnation of Campos in Letter #63 with his own justifications and actions in the ralliement of the SSPX).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #5 on: June 22, 2019, 08:25:49 PM »
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  • You are obviously very naive about the extent and depth of the SSPX compromises:

    For +Rifan to have attended SSPX ordinations in Winona would have been perfectly in line with its diocesan-tradcuмenical collaborations of late (much like this tradcuмenical conservative attending the ordinations).

    As far as +Fellay's words about Campos meaning nothing, you might need to come to terms with that (e.g., by comparing his condemnation of Campos in Letter #63 with his own justifications and actions in the ralliement of the SSPX).
    Ai, ai...how does a simple correction as to who attended produce such a reply? I am very aware of what has happened. I don't think you are understanding the point I am trying to make. 


    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #6 on: June 22, 2019, 08:26:56 PM »
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  • I am not your enemy, Sean. 

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #7 on: June 22, 2019, 08:29:28 PM »
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  • Ai, ai...how does a simple correction as to who attended produce such a reply? I am very aware of what has happened. I don't think you are understanding the point I am trying to make.

    No need to be sensitive.

    Many people are not able to accept the depth of the SSPX corruption and compromise, even if they recognize it intellectually.

    In your case, you seem to be indignant (or at least unwilling to accept) that a +Rifan (of better yet, a Fr. Bisig, perhaps) attending an SSPX ordination would be perfectly consistent with the SSPX program of integration.

    Do you pretend there will exist an animus between a reconciled SSPX and a long-reconciled Campos?

    Obviously Rome will not allow that, hence the diocesan outreach program: All must play nice in the sandbox, and these tradcuмenical initiatives are designed toward that end.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #8 on: June 22, 2019, 08:30:27 PM »
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  • Also +Rifan is more ideologically invested in rejecting the Archbishop's stance and the SSPX. That is why I say it would be shocking for him to attend the ordinations all of a sudden. He probably still thinks the Archbishop was wrong to consecrate bishops. Again, don't be too abrasive in things you don't need to be abrasive with. 

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #9 on: June 22, 2019, 08:31:30 PM »
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  • Also +Rifan is more ideologically invested in rejecting the Archbishop's stance and the SSPX. That is why I say it would be shocking for him to attend the ordinations all of a sudden. He probably still thinks the Archbishop was wrong to consecrate bishops. Again, don't be too abrasive in things you don't need to be abrasive with.

    There is another thread on this forum showing that +Rifan is no more invested in rejecting +Lefebvre than +Fellay & Co. are (and likely, quite a bit less, having never been in the SSPX).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #10 on: June 22, 2019, 08:32:56 PM »
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  • Not sure how I am the one sensitive. Again, +Rifan is ideologically invested in his anti-Lefebvre stance, Hounder is not -- he is a man totally out of touch with Tradition and only seeks to be some sort of "peace-maker" bringing about the eventual "reconciliation" with the SSPX. 


    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #11 on: June 22, 2019, 08:33:46 PM »
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  • There is another thread on this forum showing that +Rifan is no more invested in rejecting +Lefebvre than +Fellay & Co. are (and likely, quite a bit less, having never been in the SSPX).
    Interesting. Can you post the link?

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #12 on: June 22, 2019, 08:35:24 PM »
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  • Let's forgot the hypothetical "Would Rifan attend or not?" and let's concentrate on facts.  


    Quote
    You can tell he is Maronite by his headgear. 
    Is the headgear Maronite or not?  Is Rifan a Maronite?  This is the key to the picture.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Did +Rifan Assist at SSPX Ordinations?
    « Reply #13 on: June 22, 2019, 08:36:11 PM »
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  • Not sure how I am the one sensitive. Again, +Rifan is ideologically invested in his anti-Lefebvre stance, Hounder is not -- he is a man totally out of touch with Tradition and only seeks to be some sort of "peace-maker" bringing about the eventual "reconciliation" with the SSPX.

    You are missing the point:

    It is +Fellay, Pagliarani, and the entire leadership of the SSPX who are heavily invested in rejecting the positions and doctrines of +Lefebvre (much more so than a +Rifan), and it is their rejection which makes their tradcuмenical actions such as a potential +Rifan appearance perfectly consistent with their sellout program.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."