I could have sworn I posted this earlier today on a thread I can't find, but perhaps the internet ether ate my post...

I thought it might make for a good discussion, so here goes:

What if the apparition of Our Lady is correct, and when she said Our Lord will destroy the SSPX for Bp. Fellay failing to heed her request, what if she meant ALL of the SSPX?

Not just the "neo-SSPX" but the "SSPX-SO" as well?

It seems they are both on a path of disintegration and a mess.

Thoughts anyone?

 

I, for one don't believe that God would leave us all adrift without the Mass and Sacraments and without any way to train priests. And I am sorry, but I don't consider what is being done in Boston as proper training. If St. Padre Pio was correct, that the world could exist better without the sun than without the Mass, then that would indicate that at no time will we be completely without these things. At least, I hope and pray that will be the case. Even with the Society spread out all over the world, it is difficult enough for many to get to a Mass.

The SSPX priests have been killing themselves for decades with circuits and spreading themselves way too thin. They are having to pay the price in aging way beyond their years and sometimes losing equilibrium as well. If folks don't see this it is just because they haven't been around long enough. Why would Our Lady reward all of this hard work and sacrifice for the Church and souls by crushing the SSPX, or allowing it to be, as punishment for the Superior of the SSPX not acting upon "messages" given to someone no one has any reason to have confidence in since those who know her apparently don't have, and so privately and with absolutely no proof of any kind? Where is her "tilma with roses"?

It is not in keeping with the ways of Heaven to imagine it. Our Lord and Our Lady have traditionally waited long years for warnings to be acted upon and warned repeatedly.

And I am sorry, but I don't consider what is being done in Boston as proper training.  

How so, in detail?

I could have sworn I posted this earlier today on a thread I can't find, but perhaps the internet ether ate my post...

I thought it might make for a good discussion, so here goes:

What if the apparition of Our Lady is correct, and when she said Our Lord will destroy the SSPX for Bp. Fellay failing to heed her request, what if she meant ALL of the SSPX?

Not just the "neo-SSPX" but the "SSPX-SO" as well?

It seems they are both on a path of disintegration and a mess.

Thoughts anyone?

 

Don't worry about it.

1. God won't leave us without valid Mass and Sacraments.

2. Fr. Pfeiffer is not the Resistance. He isn't even the USA Resistance. More and more groups are being served by ex-SSPX priests operating independently. How many priests are doing the "fly around the country" thing? Still just 2: Fr. Pfeiffer and Fr.Hewko. Fr. Voigt is SORT OF doing this, but he has a few set destinations every month (a REGULAR, planned circuit) and he buys his own plane tickets, otherwise this regularity would never happen! Without any exaggeration, Fr. Pfeiffer doesn't know where he's going to say Mass in 7 days most of the time. Fr. Voigt visits the same places at the same times every month -- an excellent means of growing a given Mass center!

3. There is nothing to worry about, since the apparitions have no likelihood of being true. By order of the Catholic Church, we are to ignore them until we get a supernatural miracle to confirm them. As far as I know, there has been no such miracle. Not being against the Faith is NOT the same as credible or worthy of belief.

Don't worry about it.


3. There is nothing to worry about, since the apparitions have no likelihood of being true.

I am not "worried" about it.

But, I also do not assume that the apparitions have NO likelihood of being true.

I do not know if they are true, and neither does anyone else here.

I don't know why any Catholic would assume the SSPX, or any former part of it, is going to be exempted somehow from God's punishment upon us. I maintain it is not.

As I recall, somewhere in Revelation it speaks of the Mass (or perhaps it is worded as the "sacrifice") ending.

So, therefore I assume it is going to be REALLY bad at the end of it all, and none of us will be spared.

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Matthew: Don't worry about it.

1. God won't leave us without valid Mass and Sacraments. ..

 3. There is nothing to worry about, since the apparitions have no likelihood of being true. By order of the Catholic Church, we are to ignore them until we get a supernatural miracle to confirm them. As far as I know, there has been no such miracle. Not being against the Faith is NOT the same as credible or worthy of belief.

By what irrefutable principle or decree does Matthew dare to claim that God could never leave us without Mass and Sacraments?  I think it quite possible that God can do, and probably has already done, what Matthew states He can not do.

As for the apparitions having "no likelihood of being true," again, Matthew overreaches.  Matt has no authority to say that they might not be true. Where does the "Catholic Church" teach that we are to "ignore" potential apparitions until proven by a miracle?  I know of no such teaching.  People gathered by the thousands at Fatima months prior to the Miracle of the Sun.  Should these same people have ignored the children and their claims, until such time that a miracle had been performed.

Quite frankly, I am more convinced now that DM's story is true, and that the bishop is well justified in believing that it is.  I believe that there is a much better than 75-85% chance that she did indeed receive messages from Our Lady.  I am firmly convinced that Bp. Fellay was disposed to believe her too up until probably early May of 2011.

Time once again for the Sasquatches to lope back in from the forest.  

"The gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Obviously Catholics in Arkansas, or in many countries around the world don't have much access to the true Mass and Sacraments. But that is a local privation.

But the kind of privation we'd have worldwide if the SSPX closed all its chapels, plus the Resistance closed all its chapels -- that would never happen. What would happen to all the priests? Martyrdom?

Wouldn't they set up a bunch of independent chapels at least?

There are some private revelations (which we aren't obliged to accept) that talk about the Mass being totally taken away. But that would be end-of-the-world stuff, and the world clearly isn't ending yet.

That's really the point.

It's a mere disagreement about how to proceed.

Bishop Williamson advocates a "loose network of independent chapels"

Fr. Pfeiffer advocates creating a central "Society of St. Pius X" competitor, complete with everything the old SSPX had -- and as soon as possible.

Looking at the objective reality (how many priests work for/under Fr. Pfeiffer right now? and how many are NOT such as Fr. Zendejas, etc.) wouldn't you say that God's will might be closer to Bishop Williamson's guess?

Fr. Pfeiffer wasn't necessarily wrong to try to do what he tried to do -- but at the very least he needs to be detached enough to consider that maybe God wants something other than what he wants. We always have to leave open that possibility.